HIGENAMINE STUDY POSTED ON ERGO-LOG (PERFORMAX/hypermax =0mgs)

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  1. HIGENAMINE STUDY POSTED ON ERGO-LOG (PERFORMAX/hypermax =0mgs)


    Has this been addressed with the reformulation?

    Have all products in the line been resourced?

    What , if any, QA is around now to ensure this never happens again?

  2. HIGENAMINE STUDY POSTED ON ERGO-LOG (PERFORMAX/hypermax =0mgs)


    can you post the study or the article here please?


    edit, found it myself:

    http://www.ergo-log.com/lab-tests-24...pplements.html



    lol

    having a little less than advertised, okay, bad but better than nothing but not having anything at all is a joke

    curious about the explanation; but we shouldnt be surprised that there are hardly any supplements that contain exactly whats stated on the label.

    however i thought performax is more trustworthy. for ME personally this is a no-go. Doesnt matter why this specific can didnt contain higenamine, one scam can is one too much.

    But yeah, still curious what the company will tell the customers. Its a punch right the face, thats a fact.

    -
    or the lab tested the current version which has no higenamine in it. didnt read the study and checked the dates the study was made.

    if this is the case, im taking back what i said. but most likely the lab knows which product they are testing, so they know which ingredients should be in the product
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  3. it does present lots of questions- I have ran about 4 bttls of mass max- was liking Performaxx as my go to company-really hope there is some expanded info on all this

  4. Two logs on this supp but they both like stopped the logs.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by emiliozapata View Post
    it does present lots of questions- I have ran about 4 bttls of mass max- was liking Performaxx as my go to company-really hope there is some expanded info on all this
    What do you felt on theses 4 bottles of Mass max?
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  6. The product tested within the above referenced study was launched on April 14th 2014 and discontinued May 2nd 2015 for several reasons including a clumping issue. This presents some major issues and oversights from this study considering the material was manufactured well over 3 years ago and very likely expired. Moreover, then just being expired, the tested material would have resembled a wet, clumped up paste rather then actual powder. With such a major oversight of testing for ingredient potency in far expired product, it brings into question the results of this study. Obviously, we cannot guarantee product potency on expired product. Per FDA guidelines a reserve sample is held for 1 year past the expiration date, however in this case, it’s already been far past that and any reserve samples of this material is no longer available. We are taking these results seriously however we do believe the above points presents large oversights and major issues with the results of this study. We are a company that strives for quality and innovation and currently work with 2 NSF and cGMP facilities for manufacturing, always aiming to do right by the customer. In this case, there is very little investigation we can implement as the product is so old, however if there are any customers who have this version and would like a replacement or refund we would be happy to offer that.
    Performax Labs Online Company Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  7. Quote Originally Posted by alvin1 View Post
    What do you felt on theses 4 bottles of Mass max?
    First 2 I ran for 6 weeks- did the first bottle at regular dose and then second bottle at 1.5 x dose- gained weight and strength- overall I was a fan- second 2 I took after a rough stretch medically in which I lost weight and strength/size post operatively- (prostate cancer with radical prostatectomy)- I really couldn't lift heavy but the body weight came right back- all in all, I heartily endorse MASSMax but the findings concern me- I do undertsand the potential problems with the study but the questions about QC and sourcing weigh heavily- Performaxx, as does most of these companies- simply formulate- there is really little oversight of the actual ingredients outside of what a potentially bogus CoA may say
  8. HIGENAMINE STUDY POSTED ON ERGO-LOG (PERFORMAX/hypermax =0mgs)


    lol

    even after 10 years there will be some detectable amount of higenamine in it.

    sorry, but thats a BS response.

    IF there would have ever been higenamine in it, they would have found it. if its clumping or not, doesnt matter and you know that.

    beside that we can be pretty sure that a lab will take the powder and grind it and mix it up again, IF it has clumped. im very sure they dont take a random piece out of the can and test that. BUT even if they would have done that - the result wouldnt be ZERO actual higenamine content. 100%. if you really believe that, you lost every single percent of credibility.
  9. HIGENAMINE STUDY POSTED ON ERGO-LOG (PERFORMAX/hypermax =0mgs)


    and boys, it doesnt matter if the products feel good or not; if there are false label claims, missing ingredients, then idc about the feeling. its scam. simple scam, if they write something on the label but dont put it in the product.

    if a company is doing that once, who tells me, they wont do that again?

    sorry, but this result is a shame


    (im curious if i get banned or some sh1t for speaking about the obvious facts; if so - it is worth it, because im really pissed off all these bad results and false label claims of several supplement companies)

  10. Quote Originally Posted by iamyourfather View Post
    and boys, it doesnt matter if the products feel good or not; if there are false label claims, missing ingredients, then idc about the feeling. its scam. simple scam, if they write something on the label but dont put it in the product.

    if a company is doing that once, who tells me, they wont do that again?

    sorry, but this result is a shame


    (im curious if i get banned or some sh1t for speaking about the obvious facts; if so - it is worth it, because im really pissed off all these bad results and false label claims of several supplement companies)
    I understand the anger and I feel it too-unfortunately like I stated above, many of these guys have no real way of knowing what is in any of their stuff- they buy a tub of bulks from china and take the CoA at face value and then formulate blends and cap, many don't even do that it all gets done off site and they simply market and sell- I take a huge risk as a cancer patient taking anything that could be spiked with some androgenic substances - I started taking FD/Vector not only for training but as a anti-cancer based on the ECGC in FD and the KME in vector- i pray that they have what they say and nothing else!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by iamyourfather View Post
    lol

    even after 10 years there will be some detectable amount of higenamine in it.

    sorry, but thats a BS response.

    IF there would have ever been higenamine in it, they would have found it. if its clumping or not, doesnt matter and you know that.

    beside that we can be pretty sure that a lab will take the powder and grind it and mix it up again, IF it has clumped. im very sure they dont take a random piece out of the can and test that. BUT even if they would have done that - the result wouldnt be ZERO actual higenamine content. 100%. if you really believe that, you lost every single percent of credibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by iamyourfather View Post
    and boys, it doesnt matter if the products feel good or not; if there are false label claims, missing ingredients, then idc about the feeling. its scam. simple scam, if they write something on the label but dont put it in the product.

    if a company is doing that once, who tells me, they wont do that again?

    sorry, but this result is a shame


    (im curious if i get banned or some sh1t for speaking about the obvious facts; if so - it is worth it, because im really pissed off all these bad results and false label claims of several supplement companies)
    While I don't 100% agree with ADizzle1, I don't agree with your views on this either.

    First and foremost - this study is all about the health hazards of higenamine. The concern was not that products contain too little of the ingredient - but TOO MUCH. You are singling out Performax for a "scam" - but what about the other companies who scammed you in the other direction and could cause someone harm because of it?

    Second - Adizzle has admitted to why they discontinued the product - clumping issues. Adizzle has to protect his brand, but if you read between the lines a little there you can see that he was aware of the issue of clumping. And, yes, clumping issues during manufacturing would explain this fully. It would also explain why some of the other products tested were way OVER the stated values. If you mix up a large volume of powder and put it into 100 tubs, and there is a clumping issue, it would be easy for 1 tub to get way too much of an ingredient and another to get way too little (or none).

    If you've ever tried to compound something, you learn that clumping is a MAJOR obstacle. If you have a large volume of powder and you're trying to mix a smaller volume of an ingredient into that, clumping can be a nightmare. Think about putting 1 gram of powder A into 49 grams of powder B. You want it to come out evenly and have a roughly 2% level of powder A for any volume of total powder. Great. But what if you get a clump? You could have a 100 mg clump that piles up somewhere and now you take a scoop and your 200 mg scoop has 50% powder A - or 100 mg when it should have 4 mg.

    And of course now that 100 mg isn't dispursed throughout the rest of the material, so there may be a pocket where you have 0% - or if you've done a decent job of evenly dispersing the rest of the powder at the very least you're 10% light on every other scoop,

    Now make that worse and put it in a tub without capping it, where it can reclump and settle, etc. and even non-expired powder can be uneven.

    Add a little moisture and you have a clump of goup in your tub. I'm not sure if you've ever had this happen - leave a preworkout or powdered fat burner in a cabinet for a while and go back in a few months and try to use it. It will be goo. Good luck getting that to mix evenly again.

    The study is very light on details too - they don't give any real explanation of how they handled the materials TBH. They may have had a bucket of goo and just taken a scoop and tested it. You have no way of knowing if they even attempted to mix it up again or if they did make an attempt, what was their method? Maybe they shook the can to remix it - which isn't highly effective to begin with and won't make much difference with goo.

    I'm not saying that it totally lets anyone off the hook, don't get me wrong. There is a ton of shadiness in the industry. But there are also manufacturing difficulties in every industry that lead to problems. It could be an outright scam, carelessness, or just a manufacturing issue. It seems like the product was discontinued for a reason and maybe it's something that Performax realized was becoming an issue and decided to change?

    This isn't to single you out...just to provide another side and some more thoughts...

  12. Do they have any 3rd party CoAs of their current products?

  13. Wutsup with 25 servings for 40+ bucks? Keep your higenamine lol. That was kind of a concern as well buying intramax.

  14. doesn't u.s. 21cfr111 require finished product testing by company named on label? simple counter would be to post that batch test i would think.

    i think this part most entertaining though :-)

    Higenamine is a stimulant, which according to in vitro research interacts with the adrenergic beta-2 receptor - just like terbutaline and salbutamol. In theory, administration of higenamine could lead to a shift in body composition towards less fat and more muscles.

    We do not know whether this is the case. It has never been studied. That did not stop the supplement industry from putting higenamine in supplements.

    lol, more pubmed "formulating" :-) this go well with other thread about * and claims on bottle - can pretty much say anything with those <---

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    Do they have any 3rd party CoAs of their current products?
    Yes, if you sign NDA first in order to view them.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    Do they have any 3rd party CoAs of their current products?
    would be an easy way to diffuse the situation.

    Make no mistake Pieter Cohen is not an independent researcher and is supremely biased against the industry. His only objective is to destroy the industry.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    would be an easy way to diffuse the situation.

    Make no mistake Pieter Cohen is not an independent researcher and is supremely biased against the industry. His only objective is to destroy the industry.
    I'm no fan of his either, but yeah I think that's the best way to diffuse this situation.

  18. First off I am a fan of Performax and use some of their products. But, now this is the second product of theirs that was tested to have zero contents of one of the active ingredients. Now we have some evidence that their labels do not meet the claims. In my opinion its time for Performax to show us some evidence that we can have full trust in them again.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    First off I am a fan of Performax and use some of their products. But, now this is the second product of theirs that was tested to have zero contents of one of the active ingredients. Now we have some evidence that their labels do not meet the claims. In my opinion it’s time for Performax to show us some evidence that we can have full trust in them again.
    What was the other product?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    What was the other product?
    MassMax was supposedly tested and supposedly showed zero ecdy.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    MassMax was supposedly tested and supposedly showed zero ecdy.
    That's a pattern...are the reps going to get any testing up here? Legally by law the company is required to have batch records on file.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    MassMax was supposedly tested and supposedly showed zero ecdy.
    Yeah, ouch. 2x is suspicious.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    MassMax was supposedly tested and supposedly showed zero ecdy.
    By a competitor, so that test is questionable. The current one I wonder how the hell they even got a hold of a tub so old it was expired.??? Both these "tests" are highly questionable for now IMO. That being said if made in a cGMP facility test results should be easy to obtain and post from performax. Being the olympia weekend lets give them sometime to get a hold of someone who can pull such info from manufactured lots.

  24. I'd like to understand what data they're using to determine unsafe levels. I understand it being banned in most competitive sports, but what actual data shows Xmg/day is max safe dosing?

    I'm not a fan of this ingredient personally, but would love to read more on what the data is showing potential maximal doses for humans (weight based obviously)
    Non-affiliated

  25. Its interesting that the Performax reps are in on every thread it seems except this one.
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