What's the best fat burning supplement available today??

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    What? You clearly don’t know what otherwise healthy means. You can’t just agree to disagree about definitions. “I think 2 + 2 = 7. You don’t? We’ll just agree to disagree.” It doesn’t make sense man. Also, any response to the actual content of the studies? The studies that showed its well tolerated and safe?
    I don't think it's safe in obese people


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Bintherduntht View Post
    I don't think it's safe in obese people
    So you disagree with the multiple studies and reviews I referenced? Prove that these peer-reviewed studies and papers are incorrect man. An opinion without support means nothing. I backed up my claim, you have not.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    So you disagree with the multiple studies and reviews I referenced? Prove that these peer-reviewed studies and papers are incorrect man. An opinion without support means nothing. I backed up my claim, you have not.
    I'm entitled to my opinion...
  4. What's the best fat burning supplement available today??


    Quote Originally Posted by Bintherduntht View Post
    I'm entitled to my (ignorant) opinion...
    Yes, but that doesnít mean itís even remotely respectable.

    Edit: at least explain why you believe it. You talked about heart attacks and cardiovascular episodes, and the research disproved that. So either you donít believe the research, or you have another reason.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by Rockslide View Post
    Ephedrine HCL and Yohimbine HCL are both pharmaceuticals drugs, not herbal dietary supplements. Both have associated risks. Many would argue that Y is more harmful than E. One obviously got more bad press from atheletes taking and doing max capacity workouts in 100 degree weather than the other and thus got an fda ban. Ephedrine is commonly used by anasthesiologists for blood pressure and heart rate support of unstable vitals in surgery. I believe Yohimbine HCL is used in other countries for similar purposes and I believe some countries have banned it in dietary supps

    They both have a wide array of literature available on them as they are both pharmaceuticals if you are anyone is curious about researching the safety of them.

    Yohimbine causes my pupils to dialate, goosebumps, cold sweats, anxiety, shakes. Alpha Y is somewhat better tolerated by me if I have developed a tolerance to caffiene and keep the dose ultra low.
    Yeah I've never tolerated Yoh at all. The few times I have tried it causes me to throw up or have anxiety to the point of wanting to drive off of a bridge.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Bintherduntht View Post
    I'm entitled to my opinion...
    You are entitled to your own opinion...but not your own facts and most people at least try to base their opinions on reality.

    Basically you are saying it is your opinion that ephedrine is not safe and you have no reason to have that opinion, but you are going to stick to it because it is what you believe and you are not willing to change your beliefs, even in light of evidence that those beliefs may be flawed...which is impressive when you go back to the fact that you did not even need a reason to adopt such a belief in the first place apparently.

    I think it would be wise to monitor blood pressure while using ephedrine; I will give you that. But that is actually true of anyone who is obese and ephedrine has been used in obesity quite often and has proven safe time and again.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by booneman77 View Post
    this is completely untrue depending on his starting point... hell, im relatively lean now but could cut out all carbs (and I'm already pretty low) plus tweak things a bit more and drop 10lb this week... if he's seriously fat, dropping 5+lb a week is not at all unrealistic... look at the biggest loser folks... the fatter you are, the more weight you can drop in a given time period (to an extent).
    Have you read what the Biggest loser contestants do on a daily basis? It's far from realistic training for 85% of the human population. Starving to death and exercising multiple hours a day on end.

    I wouldn't say this was realistic for someone or nearly most.

    But nevertheless in the quote it stated if he is currently inactive and eating poorly. If he's already training like a maniac then his problem would've been solved.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    You are entitled to your own opinion...but not your own facts and most people at least try to base their opinions on reality.

    Basically you are saying it is your opinion that ephedrine is not safe and you have no reason to have that opinion, but you are going to stick to it because it is what you believe and you are not willing to change your beliefs, even in light of evidence that those beliefs may be flawed...which is impressive when you go back to the fact that you did not even need a reason to adopt such a belief in the first place apparently.

    I think it would be wise to monitor blood pressure while using ephedrine; I will give you that. But that is actually true of anyone who is obese and ephedrine has been used in obesity quite often and has proven safe time and again.
    The OP wants to lose 30lbs in two months. I would not recommend ephedrine.

    My opinion is just that... My opinion. It doesn't mean it's false. I never said it was a fact

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Bintherduntht View Post
    The OP wants to lose 30lbs in two months. I would not recommend ephedrine.

    My opinion is just that... My opinion. It doesn't mean it's false.

    And we are going off topic
    Your opinion on the safety of ephedrine isnít false because itís your opinion, itís false because itís contradicted by a substantial amount of research and you have a dearth of support for it. If OP is determined to use a fat burner, EC is perhaps the most tried and true option out of them all, with more safety data than most as well. We agree that no supplement or drug will replace poor training and diet, but you are wrong to say that overweight people shouldnít use ephedrine because itís not safe. Itís your opinion, but itís wrong. Youíre entitled to have wrong opinions though.
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  10. What's the best fat burning supplement available today??


    Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    You are entitled to your own opinion...but not your own facts and most people at least try to base their opinions on reality.

    Basically you are saying it is your opinion that ephedrine is not safe and you have no reason to have that opinion, but you are going to stick to it because it is what you believe and you are not willing to change your beliefs, even in light of evidence that those beliefs may be flawed...which is impressive when you go back to the fact that you did not even need a reason to adopt such a belief in the first place apparently.

    I think it would be wise to monitor blood pressure while using ephedrine; I will give you that. But that is actually true of anyone who is obese and ephedrine has been used in obesity quite often and has proven safe time and again.
    I think I may be the stupidest one for even continuing this ďdebateĒ with him.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    I think I may be the stupidest one for even continuing this “debate” with him.
    It's pointless...

  12. Lizards are vegetables and potatoes are a type of bird.

    My opinion. It doesnít mean itís false.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by Bintherduntht View Post
    The OP wants to lose 30lbs in two months. I would not recommend ephedrine.

    My opinion is just that... My opinion. It doesn't mean it's false.

    And we are going off topic
    Ok. So if I kind of read between the lines I am guessing your real aversion to the idea is based more in line with what a lot on here already said (I think muscleupcrohn said it first) - that losing 30 pounds is not entirely realistic in a 2 month timeframe?

    The issue is just that you are communicating that ephedrine is not healthy for obese people - which isn't an opinion. It's an incorrect factual statement.

    I think we agree that exercise and nutrition is way more important. And we might agree that supplements will have little or no impact for the most part. But if there is anything that science says will help reliably, and be reasonably safe - its ephedrine/caffeine.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Lizards are vegetables and potatoes are a type of bird.

    My opinion. It doesn’t mean it’s false.
    Correct. It is your opinion

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Bintherduntht View Post
    It's pointless...
    So you admit youíre entirely devoid of the ability to reason and form conclusions based on new data as it is presented to you? Admitting it is the first step to fixing it!
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by Bintherduntht View Post
    Correct. It is your opinion
    But it is unequivocally false, so itís an incorrect opinion. If I chose to continue to believe it after someone shows me evidence that it is wrong, then Iím a fool. You may call sticking to your beliefs strength, but sticking to incorrect beliefs once theyíre shown to be incorrect is the strength of a madman, and is not enviable or admirable.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    So you admit you’re entirely devoid of the ability to reason and form conclusions based on new data as it is presented to you? Admitting it is the first step to fixing it!
    Ok I admit it. I can be stubborn. But the evidence is there to prove your point yes

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Bintherduntht View Post
    Ok I admit it. I can be stubborn. But the evidence is there to prove your point yes
    Great. So if you admit the evidence is there, you should change your view to say that maybe ephedrine isnít so bad for overweight people.

    You CAN still say you donít think someone should use it until they fix their diet and training though, and Iíd agree with that, as these things are vastly more important than any supplement or drug. Itís just a different topic than safety.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    But it is unequivocally false, so it’s an incorrect opinion. If I chose to continue to believe it after someone shows me evidence that it is wrong, then I’m a fool. You may call sticking to your beliefs strength, but sticking to incorrect beliefs once they’re shown to be incorrect is the strength of a madman, and is not enviable or admirable.
    Sorry to drag this out

  20. please please please don't recommend ec to fat people...much better to let doctor prescribe phenfen...oh wait, that killed people for sure and was recalled. humor, people, humor :-)

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Bintherduntht View Post
    Sorry to drag this out
    Weíre good. I think our last posts pretty much wrapped it up nicely.
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by DaeshDontSurf View Post
    please please please don't recommend ec to fat people...much better to let doctor prescribe phenfen...oh wait, that killed people for sure and was recalled. humor, people, humor :-)
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    We’re good. I think our last posts pretty much wrapped it up nicely.
    Gotta check my ego sometimes

  24. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Ok. So if I kind of read between the lines I am guessing your real aversion to the idea is based more in line with what a lot on here already said (I think muscleupcrohn said it first) - that losing 30 pounds is not entirely realistic in a 2 month timeframe?

    The issue is just that you are communicating that ephedrine is not healthy for obese people - which isn't an opinion. It's an incorrect factual statement.

    I think we agree that exercise and nutrition is way more important. And we might agree that supplements will have little or no impact for the most part. But if there is anything that science says will help reliably, and be reasonably safe - its ephedrine/caffeine.
    Yes I understand that now

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Bintherduntht View Post
    Ok I admit it. I can be stubborn. But the evidence is there to prove your point yes
    This is hard for us all. The fact is, being stubborn is often seen as a negative attribute but it also can be extremely beneficial and positive. Standing on your own has merit and pays off sometime. But being able to accept new evidence and seeking truth is tough and it is a real balancing act to know when to change and when to double down..

    I like when people have ideas that are different - nothing is ever set in stone. The best we can do in life is to assign a probability of an outcome. I think what gets me the most on this board lately is that a lot of people, and you are far from the worst, believe in something and have no reason for it - or worse, they just want to say someone else is wrong and they won't educate as to why or provide any new thoughts, evidence or data on their own. It becomes about being right or wrong and not about learning or growing.

    And it is hard...something I have to work on myself.
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