Considering MassMax XT but...

Rad83

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This photo basically says it doesn’t contain ecdysterone ?

IMG_1826.JPG
 

jrock645

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I don’t know much about MassMax other than hearing a few good things. As far as Ecdy... they’ve been talking that stuff up for 20 years and it’s yet to take the industry by storm the way it’s supposedly been predicted. ThermoLife Ebol was supposed to be a game changer and... well, tlife doesn’t even make it(or anything for that matter) anymore.

Bottom line, I wouldn’t worry about the Ecdy. If MassMax works, and if you’ve been interested in it, I wouldn’t let the question of this one highly controversial ingredient sway you. Likely won’t make any difference anyway.
 
bwdill

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Add max mass ?

(Heard good things tho and it’s the last natural supp I haven’t tried)
Haha I see what you did there.

I would save your money. Anything natural will not get you the results you want, especially after the PH Ban a couple years back.

Everything these days is a re-hashed failed supplement with a new name and new promises.
 
muscleupcrohn

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This photo basically says it doesn’t contain ecdysterone ?

View attachment 169270
Wasn't this brought up a long time ago? First, it's on their company's forum/site (the one claiming theirs is the only good one). Second, their method for how they tested it is beyond dubious really, and also posted by the admin of their site. They claim the testing was performed by the Institute of the Chemistry of Plant Substances, who just so happens to be who they source their ecdysterone from. Also, it's located in Uzbekistan, so they ordered a bottle and sent it to Uzbekistan instead of having it tested at a non-biased lab (someone that doesn't also sell ecdysterone, or at least isn't the company that this ******** buys their ecdysterone from) in the same country that the product was shipped from. This is insanely suspect really.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Haha I see what you did there.

I would save your money. Anything natural will not get you the results you want, especially after the PH Ban a couple years back.

Everything these days is a re-hashed failed supplement with a new name and new promises.
This post doesn't really make sense. Why would the PH ban impact the effectiveness of natural products? PHs aren't natural products.
 
bwdill

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This post doesn't really make sense. Why would the PH ban impact the effectiveness of natural products? PHs aren't natural products.
Show me a consumer looking for "natural" supps that didn't somehow take a currently banned substance. Or "hear good things" about a product that is actually natural......

I'm just saying that nowadays you're not gonna find much.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Show me a consumer looking for "natural" supps that didn't somehow take a currently banned substance. Or "hear good things" about a product that is actually natural......

I'm just saying that nowadays you're not gonna find much.
What are you suggesting? That every effective natural product is adulterated with banned substances? If that is the case, why would a company illegally adulterating their natural products with prohormones care if the ingredients they're using to spike their products are legal or not, if spiking is illegal in the first place? Prohormones are not natural products, and they weren't two years ago. Or three years ago, or ten years ago.
 
bwdill

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What are you suggesting? That every effective natural product is adulterated with banned substances? If that is the case, why would a company illegally adulterating their natural products with prohormones care if the ingredients they're using to spike their products are legal or not, if spiking is illegal in the first place? Prohormones are not natural products, and they weren't two years ago. Or three years ago, or ten years ago.
Not what I said at all. You may just be looking for an argument, but don't you remember "Mass Tabs" or Methyl V "test boosting agent (marketed as a natural muscle building agent that had SD and Max LMG) while the people marketing it suggested a simple booster for PCT.

There have been plenty of companies that didn't care about tarnishing their names to make some sales. Remember the amino spiking scare?
 
muscleupcrohn

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Not what I said at all. You may just be looking for an argument, but don't you remember "Mass Tabs" or Methyl V "test boosting agent (marketed as a natural muscle building agent that had SD and Max LMG) while the people marketing it suggested a simple booster for PCT.

There have been plenty of companies that didn't care about tarnishing their names to make some sales. Remember the amino spiking scare?
If it had SD it was never natural. It doesn't matter what the company called it, it was never natural, so it was never a natural product. Therefore, the PH ban that took these products off the market didn't effect the natural supplement market, as these were never natural supplements.

I'm not "looking for an argument," I'm explaining that a PH ban, by definition, doesn't have any effect on natural products.

I can call caffeine and DMAA capsules stimulant free, but that doesn't mean they are.
 
bwdill

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If it had SD it was never natural. It doesn't matter what the company called it, it was never natural, so it was never a natural product. Therefore, the PH ban that took these products off the market didn't effect the natural supplement market, as these were never natural supplements.

I'm not "looking for an argument," I'm explaining that a PH ban, by definition, doesn't have any effect on natural products.

I can call caffeine and DMAA capsules stimulant free, but that doesn't mean they are.
I agree with that part of it, but what about all of the consumers that thought they were taking something natural because they didn't research the supp since their local shop guy told em it would get them jacked.

That's my point - research the nomenclature and compounds before taking something that you heard worked well.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I agree with that part of it, but what about all of the consumers that thought they were taking something natural because they didn't research the supp since their local shop guy told em it would get them jacked.

That's my point - research the nomenclature and compounds before taking something that you heard worked well.
So then what of the natural products that have gotten good results/feedback since the PH ban? How do you explain those? Also, of course natural products aren't going to work as well as prohormones, but that doesn't mean they don't work. There are several/many natural ingredients that have studies showing they can improve performance, strength, body composition, etc. To the magnitude of PHs? No, but that doesn't mean they don't work and/or can't be useful.
 
bwdill

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So then what of the natural products that have gotten good results/feedback since the PH ban? How do you explain those? Also, of course natural products aren't going to work as well as prohormones, but that doesn't mean they don't work. There are several/many natural ingredients that have studies showing they can improve performance, strength, body composition, etc. To the magnitude of PHs? No, but that doesn't mean they don't work and/or can't be useful.
Ecdysterones being one?
 
muscleupcrohn

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Ecdysterones being one?
Ecdysterone falls more along the lines of something that has admittedly limited human data but enough promising rodent data (and preliminary/Russian human data) to justify trying it for some people. Getting a proper extract can be difficult, which may be one reason why it hasn't always panned out, but there admittedly isn't enough human data either way to conclusively say if ecdysterone is effective or not, as there are different sources, doses, uses, etc. There have been a few well-received ecdysterone containing products though. Feedback on MassMax has been solid. I suppose you can argue that it may be because of the other ingredients and not the ecdysterone, but the feedback on it has been solid.

Edit: if you look at old Russian research, there are also some promising human studies, but I understand that these aren't exactly the same as modern studies written in English (assuming you read English).

Anyway, back on topic, the testing methodology and conflicts of interest mentioned in the OP are huge red flags really.
 
Rad83

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Show me a consumer looking for "natural" supps that didn't somehow take a currently banned substance. Or "hear good things" about a product that is actually natural......

I'm just saying that nowadays you're not gonna find much.
Appreciate the response, me I’m actually natural....Highly considering a sarm run...Was genuinely curious about this ecdysterone...
 
john.patterson

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Appreciate the response, me I’m actually natural....Highly considering a sarm run...Was genuinely curious about this ecdysterone...
I wouldn't let this one single lab test sway your decision too much - the feedback from users on Massmax should be proof enough that it is indeed effective. The "controlled" lab test that was performed in this study was not valid IMO. As a natural lifter, I would definitely suggest giving Massmax a try before jumping into SARMs.

I would also encourage you to read through some of the reviews and feedback from other users on this forum. For a natural product I think you'll really enjoy it and see results
 
jameschoi

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Found massmax xt for 30 with free shipping, why has the price come down so much. And xgels price has exploded, now 49, was like 41 when I last bought. Wow
 
AntM1564

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Found massmax xt for 30 with free shipping, why has the price come down so much. And xgels price has exploded, now 49, was like 41 when I last bought. Wow
It might be the older stock. Nothing has changed formula wise. Just a different label and it is just called MassMax now.
 
DaeshDontSurf

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Doesn't 21 CFR 111 require all US companies to test their finished product? Email the company directly and ask for that testing, then decide based on what you get back from them.
 

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I have never tried MassMax XT, but I see from the ingredient profile that it contains multiple active ingredients--- Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract, Epicatechin, Methyl Palmitate, Methyl Oleate and Atractylodes Lancea Rhizome. I have been taking a fairly high dose of Exubol (1.6 grams) for the past 3 months. Exubol contains Turkesterone which according to examine.com appears to be the most anabolic.From researching ecdysteroids, I know the results have been a mixed bag. But I have personally had excellent results.
 
john.patterson

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I have never tried MassMax XT, but I see from the ingredient profile that it contains multiple active ingredients--- Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract, Epicatechin, Methyl Palmitate, Methyl Oleate and Atractylodes Lancea Rhizome. I have been taking a fairly high dose of Exubol (1.6 grams) for the past 3 months. Exubol contains Turkesterone which according to examine.com appears to be the most anabolic.From researching ecdysteroids, I know the results have been a mixed bag. But I have personally had excellent results.
I appreciate the time and research you put into this before jumping on the bandwagon. Much appreciated.
Massmax contains a nice list of active ingredients that have been studied and proven to be effective. I think the big problem with natural anabolics is that users compare these products to SARMs and prohormones. There can't be an expectation of PH-like results with a natural product. For what it offers, I think Massmax is a very complete and well-rounded natural anabolic.
 
GQdaLEGEND

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ill take massmax over anyof those lol
 
bwdill

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I appreciate the time and research you put into this before jumping on the bandwagon. Much appreciated.
Massmax contains a nice list of active ingredients that have been studied and proven to be effective. I think the big problem with natural anabolics is that users compare these products to SARMs and prohormones. There can't be an expectation of PH-like results with a natural product. For what it offers, I think Massmax is a very complete and well-rounded natural anabolic.
100% agree. I also think that blind will lead the blind on them as well. Guys who don't factor in their diet and workout routine and might be a near beginner blowing up because of those factors and not so much the supps, but will then tell everyone that it was directly the supp that gave them the results.
 
cubsfan815

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I have used ecdy products on and off since 2006. MassMax has not disappointed me at all. I personally benefit the most from ecdy mixed with high volume training. I mix in a ton of 10x10 while on MassMax.
 
R1balla

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Wasn't this brought up a long time ago? First, it's on their company's forum/site (the one claiming theirs is the only good one). Second, their method for how they tested it is beyond dubious really, and also posted by the admin of their site. They claim the testing was performed by the Institute of the Chemistry of Plant Substances, who just so happens to be who they source their ecdysterone from. Also, it's located in Uzbekistan, so they ordered a bottle and sent it to Uzbekistan instead of having it tested at a non-biased lab (someone that doesn't also sell ecdysterone, or at least isn't the company that this ******** buys their ecdysterone from) in the same country that the product was shipped from. This is insanely suspect really.
I was literally typing a post very similar to yours until I read it. Thank you lol

MassMax has had lots of loggers, both sponsored and unsponsored. All of them achieved very similar results. Many ended up buying another bottle for themselves to make the run 8 weeks. The stuff is great. You won’t be disappointed. Just train hard, eat according to your goals and watch the pounds come!
 

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Reason for wanting to take it?

Rad83 they gave you some reasons as to why the test on MassMax might be suspect but that doesn't mean it's not accurate. They never showed any test from Performax Labs to backup the ecdysterone content of the product. Now reviews and anecdotal reports are fine but that is no proof the product contains ecdysterone.
 
f4iguy

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MassMax works. I've ordered 6 bottles so far and enjoy having a little extra appetite and strength that shows up around week 2-3 of each 8 week run. It really shines during a bulk!
 
Jiigzz

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If performax released its own tests, there wouldn't be any dispute haha
 
Ari Gold

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This all came up some time ago as well. I'll just leave it at this as we have to remain neutral - there have been previous postings (as well as one in this thread that was already deleted) that stink of being posted by people associated with ******** (IP addresses, etc.). Take that information into consideration when considering the information you read.
 
Jiigzz

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This all came up some time ago as well. I'll just leave it at this as we have to remain neutral - there have been previous postings (as well as one in this thread that was already deleted) that stink of being posted by people associated with ******** (IP addresses, etc.). Take that information into consideration when considering the information you read.
I try not to trust numbers on an info sheet unless it has a paper trail, chain of custody etc. I enjoyed Mass max when I ran it 2-3 times when it first launched and would be happy to pick it up again.
 
Ari Gold

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baxmax - unsure why you keep posting things and then deleting them, but for the record we don't protect sponsors. If we did, this thread would have been deleted already. We also don't put up with BS from competing companies (ESPECIALLY ones that still try to advertise here even though they are not sponsors any longer). Your account can remain active here, but if all you're going to do is come here and try to stir up trouble then you're getting banned.
 

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Ari Gold,

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to be present on AM. :)

Could you be more specific and support the following msg with some sort of proof:

"that stink of being posted by people associated with ******** (IP addresses, etc.). Take that information into consideration when considering the information you read."
 

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Wasn't this brought up a long time ago? First, it's on their company's forum/site (the one claiming theirs is the only good one). Second, their method for how they tested it is beyond dubious really, and also posted by the admin of their site. They claim the testing was performed by the Institute of the Chemistry of Plant Substances, who just so happens to be who they source their ecdysterone from. Also, it's located in Uzbekistan, so they ordered a bottle and sent it to Uzbekistan instead of having it tested at a non-biased lab (someone that doesn't also sell ecdysterone, or at least isn't the company that this ******** buys their ecdysterone from) in the same country that the product was shipped from. This is insanely suspect really.
It's been a year or so since the lab performed the tests. The companies/products, mentioned in these tests, had lots of time to respond.
MassMax doesn't claim a certain ecdy % in the supp, they use RC extract (non-standardized). Their label claim is accurate.
 
muscleupcrohn

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It's been a year or so since the lab performed the tests. The companies/products, mentioned in these tests, had lots of time to respond.
MassMax doesn't claim a certain ecdy % in the supp, they use RC extract (non-standardized). Their label claim is accurate.
But claiming there is no ecdysterone in the product at all is inaccurate my friend. The entire methodology behind this “testing” is beyond laughable. Let’s send competitor’s products to a lab halfway across to the world, and let’s have the lab we send it to happen to be a company who sells ecdysterone themselves AND who just so happens to be the the supplier that the company who ordered the testing uses for their product. Not openly disclosing this information when discussing the tests, these blatant conflicts of interest, is beyond disingenuous.
 

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But claiming there is no ecdysterone in the product at all is inaccurate my friend. The entire methodology behind this “testing” is beyond laughable. Let’s send competitor’s products to a lab halfway across to the world, and let’s have the lab we send it to happen to be a company who sells ecdysterone themselves AND who just so happens to be the the supplier that the company who ordered the testing uses for their product. Not openly disclosing this information when discussing the tests, these blatant conflicts of interest, is beyond disingenuous.
The problem is the tests were not done by Chromadex or another US based lab? I believe, anyone had a chance to prove this tests wrong if a bottle of the supp of the same batch was sent to Chromadex or any US based lab.
 
Ari Gold

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Could you be more specific and support the following msg with some sort of proof:
Nope, I sure can't. We don't provide personally identifiable information about any users on AM to anyone. Believe me or don't believe me, it really makes no difference to me. It's just funny that when this stink all gets regurgitated again you miraculously appear in here again.
 
Ari Gold

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Just an update: I have now personally seen a lab test which clearly shows that MassMax contains Ecdysterone. This will be my last response to this nonsense and anyone that stirs this crap up again in the future will be swiftly banned.
 
rascal14

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Just an update: I have now personally seen a lab test which clearly shows that MassMax contains Ecdysterone. This will be my last response to this nonsense and anyone that stirs this crap up again in the future will be swiftly banned.
Can this be posted?
 
Danes

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As an huge ecdysterone fan (been that since 1999) I have always been skeptical to ecdysterone products out there and I always wanted to see lab test/COA of the products
Thermolife introduced Ecdysteroids from ICPS early 2000 and I saw a lab test. Then I personally sent a sample of the product to a Norwegian Lab and the results was almost identical. (I didnt trust Thernolife in the beginning).

I would love to see COA/Lab test mr. Ari Gold saw of MassMax. Since he saw it, it means the proof is out there and Perfomax Labs should proudly show it and not to mention to prove wrong the company who tested MassMax.
 

alvin1

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As an huge ecdysterone fan (been that since 1999) I have always been skeptical to ecdysterone products out there and I always wanted to see lab test/COA of the products
Thermolife introduced Ecdysteroids from ICPS early 2000 and I saw a lab test. Then I personally sent a sample of the product to a Norwegian Lab and the results was almost identical. (I didnt trust Thernolife in the beginning).

I would love to see COA/Lab test mr. Ari Gold saw of MassMax. Since he saw it, it means the proof is out there and Perfomax Labs should proudly show it and not to mention to prove wrong the company who tested MassMax.
totally agree!
 

alvin1

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Any info yet? I was to pull the trigger on 3 bottle, if there is no proof of the ecdy in it , wich is the 1 ingredient I will not pull the trigger on it
 
cubsfan815

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Any info yet? I was to pull the trigger on 3 bottle, if there is no proof of the ecdy in it , wich is the 1 ingredient I will not pull the trigger on it
The info came from the AM moderator. The lab results prove there is ecdy in MassMax. There is nothing to worry about.
 

alvin1

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Well how come I can t see it then? It contains some, but not enough? Anyway I Don t want to start drama, but been Canadian with the exchange rate, when I buy I am really picky. I will have to past on that one. In my views the natty builder is stack with many product and by not providing what the consumer want perfomaxlabs is doing itself I disfavor.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Well how come I can t see it then? It contains some, but not enough? Anyway I Don t want to start drama, but been Canadian with the exchange rate, when I buy I am really picky. I will have to past on that one. In my views the natty builder is stack with many product and by not providing what the consumer want perfomaxlabs is doing itself I disfavor.
Honest question, doesn’t the presence of ANY ecdysterone at all completely invalidate the original claims (of nothing detected) made by a competing company who had the products “tested” by the company, located halfway across the world, that happens to also sell their own ecdysterone and happens to sell it to said company? I couldn’t think of more conflicts of interest unless the lab was also owned by the company’s owner’s father.
 
muscleupcrohn

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The problem is the tests were not done by Chromadex or another US based lab? I believe, anyone had a chance to prove this tests wrong if a bottle of the supp of the same batch was sent to Chromadex or any US based lab.
Since this thread doesn’t want to die, and I can’t believe you lack the critical thinking ability to understand this, or you’re just playing dumb:

-You are a competitor, which means that anything you claim about competitions products is inherently going to come off as biased, so you should do everything you can to show it is not, but instead you do just about everything possible to make your “testing” as biased and riddled with conflicts of interest as possible.

-It looks like your company is based out of New York? Am I wrong there? Performax is also based out of the United States, but to test the product, you sent it to a lab in Uzbekistan. Please correct me if I’m wrong here.

-Not only did you, a US-based company, send a product from the US halfway across the world for some reason, but you sent it to literally the only lab that has not one, but two direct conflicts of interest. For one, they produce their own ecdysterone, so any product that uses ecdysterone not from them is a competitor, or at least using a competitor’s ecdysterone.

-Not only does the lab sell their own ecdysterone, but they happen to be the company that your company buys your ecdysterone from, which is a massive, glaring conflict of interest.

If you had sent it to LITERALLY ANY OTHER LAB IN THE WORLD it would have been at least not quite so laughable.

TL;DR:
New York based company sends California based competitor’s product to be tested at lab in Uzbekistan that happens to sell their own ecdysterone that the first company happens to buy from them for their product. Yeah, clearly nothing wrong with that picture.
 

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