Dermacrine and Andros Don't Work. Blood work results prove it.

[Skyler777]

Dermacrine and Andros Don't Increase Testosterone or Estrogen. Blood work prove it.

Hey guys, I read forums hours a day for years, but decided to post because I couldn't find anything talking badly about andros and dermacrine even though they don't work.

So, I have been taking a few SARMs: yk11, ostarine, rad140, and cardarine. This was my second cycle and it was so suppressive I decided I needed to find something to boost testosterone, but I didn't want to pin; hence the SARMs. My first cycle suppressed me to 90 total test, this cycle suppressed me to 29 with the range being 250-1100 and my baseline being 560 natural. At 29 test I had no energy, was always sleepy, my balls shrunk a bunch, and my dick felt like a flacid, useless attachment.

Anyway, for the past six weeks I have been taking my SARMs still, but added Hard Rock super mandro (330 mg a day of 1-andro), andro the giant (500mg a day of 4-andro) and R Andro (450mg a day). I say 500mg and 450mg because would only take 4 on weekends instead of 5 capsules. Also, I took TEN pumps a day of dermacrine. That's 5 in the morning and 5 at night. I also quit taking yk11.

What did ten pumps of dermacrine, ceasing a suppressive SARM, and 1.2 grams of andros a day do for me over the past 6 weeks? It took me from 29 total testosterone to 116, which is probably only due to the fact that I quit taking yk11. EVEN IF IT WAS BECAUSE OF DERMACRINE AND ANDROS, that bump from 29 to 116 isn't worth $400 a month to me. That's right. Running dermacrine and andros for two months cost me $800. I am definitely switching to real **** next time.

 

[Bigmatt57]

1-andro does not boost test, it will surpress You

 

[Skyler777]

Hey, thanks for the reply! I know that 1 andro is suppressive and doesn't register on a blood test, but 4 andro is used as a test and estrogen base and so is dermacrine, yet my testosterone is at 116 and my estrogen is at 18... 18 out of a range that is 20-50.

 

[Bigmatt57]

Yes, but the 1-andro is what may be bringing down the Test levels, even tho I doubt it would be that much higher without it

 

[Skyler777]

Doesn't 1-andro only suppress testosterone production, which wouldn't matter since I was already suppressed to what was basically 0? Also, I would like to mention that my lifts haven't gone up over these past six weeks, which is the first time that has happened in 9 months. I just think that the dermacrine and 4 andro that cost me $400 didn't do anything for me. My lifts didn't go up, joints still hurt, estrogen is super low, testosterone is even lower.

 

[booneman77]

for spending "years" reading, you sure don't seem to understand how all these things work...

 

[Skyler777]

I certainly didn't spend years reading about andros or dermacrine. I only read about them briefly for the first time weeks ago. Does 4 andro not turn into testosterone and estrogen like everyone says? I know dermacrine is DHEA and DHEA turns into testosterone which can be turned into 5-AD, DHT, or estrogen... so I am pretty sure my testosterone should've gone up, pretty sure my lifts and weight should've gone up, and I am pretty sure I shouldn't still feel this suppressed. If i am wrong just explain it to me. Youre not being helpful, or is your goal to get on every night to check the forums so that you can reply bashing people without adding any information or exuding any knowledge? If so, well done, champ.

 

[The Express 42]

You sir are a fool lol you have used many compounds without clearly doing much homework at all. If I am understand your post correctly, sounds like you ran a bunch of sarms (yk11 being very suppressive and is basically a 19nor) and then instead of using a serm and taking time off you jumped into the andros. We all know that dermacrine will only provide feel good effects on cycle and if you started with 4 andro and a test level of 700-800 then it would keep you right around there and start to crash when you started your serms. Of course its not going to boost you the levels that testosterone can. Stop everything now and take a serm and m test for 8-12 weeks.

 

[Skyler777]

a quick search will show you that "4-andro converts into testosterone through a two step conversion. Once absorbed into the user's bloodstream and converted into testosterone... etc. etc. etc" and pregnenolone converts to dhea which then converts into androstenedione or testosterone and androsterone or estrogen. You sure don't seem to understand how this works, but thanks for adding such informative substance to my thread

 

[Skyler777]

taking time off? i took 3 months of from my first cycle while running a small amount of clomid and aromasin for 4 weeks. I started andros 5 weeks into my 2nd sarm cycle. You're assuming a lot. I am on my 9th week of sarms, but i was thinking of ending it next week (two weeks early) and running a pct. I definitely know a lot about sarms and pcts, idk how you are coming to these conclusions. All I wanted to do was inform people of my experience and to prove that dermacrine, which is dhea and is used for the purpose of combatting suppressive side effects via raising testosterone and estrogen, and 4-andro, which directly converts into testosterone and therefore can be converted into estrogen, because yes it aromatizes, don't work. I've proven already that they don't boost testosterone or estrogen. That was my goal. I don't care whether they help suppressive effects, I only care whether they increase testosterone and estrogen (for joints and hair).

 

[Anabaholic]

You quit the yk-11 but you're still taking rad 140 and ostarine? That could be your problem too, since sarms are surpressive (there's a lot of old/bad info out there that they're not surpressive) my other thought would be long cycle length, combined with taking so many different compounds; I'm not trying to scare you, but I wouldn't be surprised if you did some serious damage to your endocrine system. I'd stop the cycle early, PCT and get tested again in another month to see how things are.

 

[Skyler777]

Hey, thanks for the informative reply. I started this sarms only cycle only about 9 weeks about. In fact, my three bottles, ostarine, rad, and cardarine are just about out, thus ending the cycle. Is 12 weeks a long cycle for sarms? I thought it was pretty typical from what I read. Ya, I figured dropping the yk1 may have affected my gains over the past six weeks. I have known since the beginning that most all SARMs are very suppressive, I was just hoping there was a way to keep my test and estrogen at normal levels without injecting hormones or pinning HCG or using serms and AIs, since I want to my estrogen to function properly.

 

[kelvarnsen]

Not sure if this thread is serious or not

 

[The Express 42]

Soooo my assumption was correct? You ran your Andros after you crashed your test on your sarms. Lmao don’t tell me how to search google bud you’re gonna be the one stuck with a flaccid wiener and no confidence for the next year and that’s if you’re lucky. You suppressed yourself enough that only testosterone or trest could have gotten you out of that hole. Anyone here could of told you that using Andro or dermacrine now wouldn’t do much for ya GAINZ THO AM I RIGHT

 

[The Express 42]

But real talk so you don’t ruin yourself anymore. You can continue what you’re doing but your test will remain low. I would start taking 25mg clomid daily so when you stop it’s going to start doing its job immediately. Use Mtest and Inhibit E alongside your serm. Be careful using pharma AI’s in your PCT, much easier to crash your estrogen. Do bloodwork when you’ve been off the serms for a couple weeks to see how you’ve recovered. You’ll be fine but honestly you’re going to feel like crap for awhile. Please do some better research next time. I mean this in the most positive way possible but people like you are the reason we can’t have nice things. Best of luck

 

[Nac]

Id actually be surprised if dermacrine and 4dhea did much up against

ostarine + yk11 + rad140 + 1dhea (doses?)

A stack like that, I personally wouldve used a heavy hitter like trestolone TD.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

All those compounds, in some way, perform a similar function to testosterone in your body. Thus, your HPTA is getting lots of 'high testosterone' feedback and is not signalling for any further testosterone production. Hence, you have crushed your nuts, in a chemical sense. Run a decent PCT and get bloodwork after.

 

[booneman77]

I certainly didn't spend years reading about andros or dermacrine. I only read about them briefly for the first time weeks ago. Does 4 andro not turn into testosterone and estrogen like everyone says? I know dermacrine is DHEA and DHEA turns into testosterone which can be turned into 5-AD, DHT, or estrogen... so I am pretty sure my testosterone should've gone up, pretty sure my lifts and weight should've gone up, and I am pretty sure I shouldn't still feel this suppressed. If i am wrong just explain it to me. Youre not being helpful, or is your goal to get on every night to check the forums so that you can reply bashing people without adding any information or exuding any knowledge? If so, well done, champ.

My statement was simply because you prefaced your pointed thread with "I read forums hours a day for years, but decided to post because I couldn't find anything talking badly about andros and dermacrine even though they don't work."... basically saying what we have all interpreted as "I know everything there is to know" followed by "these products that have been used successfully by myriads of people for years are completely useless"... and all of this is wholly based on your "experience". Don't get offended when you make a bold statement that is blatantly incorrect and we call you on it.

The fact is, you have, and continue to, run a pile of suppressive compounds, and yet are somehow expecting to see "normal" or even "high" test values... none of the things you are running will have anywhere near the level or effect of increasing test when compared to the overall negative feedback loop created by all of the others... You're basically trying to level the scales by using a squirt gun (derm/4A) to combat a fire hose (osta+yk+ 1A+RA+time on in general).

In short, the answer is NO, your test should not be high. It's right where anyone running multiple suppressive compounds for many weeks would expect it to be.

 

[D3x]

I think what he's getting at is that 4-dhea is supposed to convert more directly to testosterone itself so shouldn't the numbers increase?.. unless he's somehow deficient in the enzymes to make the conversion over to test from the 4-dhea?

 

[booneman77]

I think what he's getting at is that 4-dhea is supposed to convert more directly to testosterone itself so shouldn't the numbers increase?.. unless he's somehow deficient in the enzymes to make the conversion over to test from the 4-dhea?

it is, but the amount it will convert will not be able to trump the suppression from 4+ other compounds that will not have anything but a negative effect on test levels.

 

[D3x]

it is, but the amount it will convert will not be able to trump the suppression from 4+ other compounds that will not have anything but a negative effect on test levels.

So then the idea of using 4-dhea as a test base for a 19-nor might not work as well as people say?.. Interesting..

 

[The Express 42]

So then the idea of using 4-dhea as a test base for a 19-nor might not work as well as people say?.. Interesting..

I think they do work but I don’t think they have the ability to get you out of the crapper after 4 weeks of strong suppression. If they were all started together he stood a better chance. Either way the highest I’ve seen someone’s test levels on bloodwork for 4 Andro was like 900. I believe h was running 550mg a day as well and at best gave him high natty numbers

 

[D3x]

I think they do work but I don’t think they have the ability to get you out of the crapper after 4 weeks of strong suppression. If they were all started together he stood a better chance. Either way the highest I’ve seen someone’s test levels on bloodwork for 4 Andro was like 900. I believe h was running 550mg a day as well and at best gave him high natty numbers

I guess I may have misguided extrapolations on what the Andros do.. I always thought they work kinda like oral test basically.. input = %converted output.. I need to do more research I guess lol.. at least something somewhat positive came of the thread

 

[booneman77]

I guess I may have misguided extrapolations on what the Andros do.. I always thought they work kinda like oral test basically.. input = %converted output.. I need to do more research I guess lol.. at least something somewhat positive came of the thread

yeah becuase its not just a direct conversion the % is dramatically skewed and not necessarily consistent. As Express said also, tanking the levels prior to starting the 4 basically puts you in a bad place to even try to recover from let alone boost.

 

[CATdiesel76]

I saw bloodwork for close to 1,000mg weekly of Injectable 4-Andro E and it brought the user to normal Test levels on cycle. Conversion is very poor but for a legal option normal levels is much better than nothing on cycle

 

[D3x]

I saw bloodwork for close to 1,000mg weekly of Injectable 4-Andro E and it brought the user to normal Test levels on cycle. Conversion is very poor but for a legal option normal levels is much better than nothing on cycle

Damn.. this makes me feel dumb for buying more 4andro instead of just upping my Necroplasm dosage..

 

[The Express 42]

[That Jeff is so tight both of them I can hardly for EminemQUOTE=CATdiesel76;6058259]I saw bloodwork for close to 1,000mg weekly of Injectable 4-Andro E and it brought the user to normal Test levels on cycle. Conversion is very poor but for a legal option normal levels is much better than nothing on cycle[/QUOTE]

Injectable 4andro is a thing? If you’re gonna inject just do test. It’s probably cheaper too lol

 

[Sparkss]

[That Jeff is so tight both of them I can hardly for EminemQUOTE=CATdiesel76;6058259]I saw bloodwork for close to 1,000mg weekly of Injectable 4-Andro E and it brought the user to normal Test levels on cycle. Conversion is very poor but for a legal option normal levels is much better than nothing on cycle

Injectable 4andro is a thing? If you’re gonna inject just do test. It’s probably cheaper too lol[/QUOTE]

cheaper (and better), but "technically" the 4-andro inj is "legal".

For the OP, stop your cycle, get on a serm (you need to restart your HPTA, not add more to the feedback loop) and do a formal PCT. Or ditch it all and commit to TRT for life. Up to you!

 

[CATdiesel76]

[That Jeff is so tight both of them I can hardly for EminemQUOTE=CATdiesel76;6058259]I saw bloodwork for close to 1,000mg weekly of Injectable 4-Andro E and it brought the user to normal Test levels on cycle. Conversion is very poor but for a legal option normal levels is much better than nothing on cycle

Injectable 4andro is a thing? If you’re gonna inject just do test. It’s probably cheaper too lol[/QUOTE]

It was a thing. I agree with test but for those who wanted a legal option it was the best you could do for an actual testosterone base so it had its place

 

[BlockBuilder]

The original 4 AD needed to be dosed at around 1000 mg to get good results and that was with Patrick Arnold’s 4 AD. 4 dhea needs to be dosed crazy high. I don’t think people understand that. 4 dhea is much weaker than original 4 AD

 

[D3x]

What ever happened to primordial performance Andros?.. I know they got raided due to their advertising claims, but idk what happened after

 

[CATdiesel76]

What ever happened to primordial performance Andros?.. I know they got raided due to their advertising claims, but idk what happened after

That pretty much bankrupted them. Couldn’t survive with all that Inventory and funds stolen but cleared of any wrong doing but too little too late.

The owner started botanical craft after

 

[D3x]

Yea but did they sell the patent to their super Andros?

 

[BlockBuilder]

Yea but did they sell the patent to their super Andros?

He sold the patent over to a company called Andro Factory. They went out of business eventually and I have no idea why or what happened

 

[D3x]

Sad day.. this thread makes me wish I had spent my money differently for this cycle..

 

[HIT4ME]

This thread is amazing. Skyler777 - you think you understand way more than you actually understand. And that's not a knock. it's a typical human experience and we all have it. The more you learn, the more you will look back on and go, "Oh, wow, I had that totally backasswards".

The other people on here, particularly the ones you think aren't being helpful, are actually giving you all the info you really need. You done screwed up. You should seek medical advice to be honest. But the best course of action if you're going to go it alone is to get yourself a reliable SERM and do a proper PCT.

When you are suppressed, taking more suppressive hormones is NOT the way to get your levels back up. You are googling, and interpreting the things you read without the baseline knowledge you need to properly interpret them - and you are coming to the wrong conclusions.

a quick search will show you that "4-andro converts into testosterone through a two step conversion. Once absorbed into the user's bloodstream and converted into testosterone... etc. etc. etc" and pregnenolone converts to dhea which then converts into androstenedione or testosterone and androsterone or estrogen. You sure don't seem to understand how this works, but thanks for adding such informative substance to my thread

This is a good example. Your quote, if it is a direct quote, is highly misleading. It isn't like you just take a hormone like DHEA and it converts 100% to androstenedione and then converts 100% to testosterone. It's not a guarantee. It's actually kind of like Russian Roulette.

Back in the day when androstenedione and all of the first wave products were available, a lot of users started noting that the estrogen sides in those hormones could be worse for some people than actual gear. There is a good reason no one uses androstendione anymore, it isn't because it is illegal because there are plenty of other prohormones that are illegal that still get used.

I think you need a little more humility when you're accusing someone that "they sure don't seem to understand how this works" and you lack so much knowledge. You will get much more helpful answers.

And your hypothesis that Dermacrine doesn't work is, again, a backwards conclusion. You were extremely suppressed. You continued to use suppressive substances. You threw in Dermacrine and your test came up quite a bit to be honest, considering your starting point. It's hard to make a determination - but considering what the Dermacrine was up against and that you were using it in a way it isn't really intended to be used; I'd say you're example gives me more faith in the product than I had to begin with. Basically you went from complete shutdown to "low" testosterone levels.

Either go to a doctor and tell them what's up or figure out how to get a SERM and run it after you stop all hormonal products.

 

[HIT4ME]

Damn.. this makes me feel dumb for buying more 4andro instead of just upping my Necroplasm dosage..

I'm far from an expert on this stuff, since I don't get much into the hormonal products and most of what is out there, since it's a multi-step conversion, strikes me as being a low return for the risk involved. I would rather just go with the real deal than deal with something that might give me a smaller level of results but has the potential to deliver most of the risks anyway. But that's me.

Still - if you're staying "legal" and made a decision I don't fault anyone for that...Its all valid. But I think you have to keep in mind what tool you're using vs. what the job is you're accomplishing. You have a plan, use the tools you have and follow the plan and learn for the next time. I wouldn't feel bad. I don't think there's a 100% right way, you learn as you go.

 

[D3x]

Is there a way or something to take with 4-andro to change the odds of converting to the target hormone?.. my current place of residence and legal issues prevent me from going too far into the real gear stuff.. so 4-andro seemed a decent option for test..

 

[CATdiesel76]

He sold the patent over to a company called Andro Factory. They went out of business eventually and I have no idea why or what happened

Jared Wheat and Hi-Tech own the patents now I believe

 

[BennyMagoo79]

Test isnt the only reason we supp with test & dhea etc. These convert to other useful hormones.

 

[HIT4ME]

Is there a way or something to take with 4-andro to change the odds of converting to the target hormone?.. my current place of residence and legal issues prevent me from going too far into the real gear stuff.. so 4-andro seemed a decent option for test..

I'm not really sure; I would imagine if there was a simple way, it would be included in many of the products. I'm not saying all is lost - I'm just saying it's way more complicated than take this and get X% of testosterone. I don't blame you for the legal stuff - but that's part of the fun of supplements and this, right? You're kind of learning from experiment. You should run what you have, per your plan, and see what you get for results. Other people seem to have good results from 4-AD so it isn't like conversion to testosterone is every last part of it. As BennyMagoo79 says,

Test isnt the only reason we supp with test & dhea etc. These convert to other useful hormones.

We are complex beings and Testosterone isn't the only hormone that will build muscle, and building muscle isn't necessarily the only benefit of many of these hormones.

 

[Skyler777]

I can see how the dhea cream wouldnt convert into testosterone when shutdown, but I still figured 4 andro would because its supposed to convert into testosterone even when one is suppressed otherwise people wouldnt use it while on cycle when their LH is suppressed to 0. Why is everyone acting like I am so suppressed there's no coming back? do you guys have any idea what youre talking about? just because youre pinning testosterone doesnt mean youre not even greater suppressed than I am at the moment. There's nothing wrong with adding andros one month into a sarms cycle, people run dbol as a kicker or a finisher and add various hormones throughout cycles. I already explained that I was suppressed on my previous cycle and ran a pct which got me to 870 test and went back to 550 when i was off of everything for a month. I dont see anyone getting **** for using test, deca, and tren at the same time, but I use 3 suppressive sarms for a month then reduce it to 2 and add some andros, and everyone loses their minds. Hilarious. my test and LH is less suppressed since dropped yk11 and using andros.

I am curious though, if one were to run andros alone wouldnt his or her test be suppressed due to the suppressive nature of andros. thus rendering the ones that convert into testosterone and estrogen completely useless since youre saying they dont work in a suppressive environment? Also, on a few of the sarms forums lots of people were talking about using andros and sarms at the same time

I will stop taking the andros starting today and I will stop the sarms at the end of the week. I took yk, ostarine, rad, and cardarine for a few reasons. I had really good results with rad last time, strength and leans gains, cardarine for endurance, i used ostarine for the first time because it was said to be good for joints, and yk for strength. I realize yk is a myostatin inhibitor and that it works through different mechanisms and is as suppressive as rad. Most people on those sarms forums talk about running 4+ suppressive sarms at the same time. I realize dylan gemilli or whatever his name is is just a marketing, misguiding douche, but he isn't whom i got my information from. If my information is wrong, i believe it. I get most of my info from these types of forums, which is why i posted.

I hope i dont come off too ungrateful. i really appreciate all the feedback

 

[Skyler777]

So why does everyone take dermacrine as a test base when running suppressive compounds if dermacrine doesn't convert to test in a suppressive environment? that would make dermacrine completely useless. No one natural should take it and no one on anabolics or other suppressive agents should take it. So it's completely useless? I have serms and AIs of all kinds i bought before this cycle for the end of this cycle. I think Ill use only 20mg of clomiphene a day because that should be enough to get me going and I don't like killing estrogen and the like. I also have sustain alpha I may as well try out during my pct, it makes the body more sensitive to LH for those who aren't aware.

 

[hairygrandpa]

So why does everyone take dermacrine as a test base when running suppressive compounds if dermacrine doesn't convert to test in a suppressive environment? that would make dermacrine completely useless. No one natural should take it and no one on anabolics or other suppressive agents should take it. So it's completely useless? I have serms and AIs of all kinds i bought before this cycle for the end of this cycle. I think Ill use only 20mg of clomiphene a day because that should be enough to get me going and I don't like killing estrogen and the like. I also have sustain alpha I may as well try out during my pct, it makes the body more sensitive to LH for those who aren't aware.

First:
Not everyone uses Dermacrine as a test base, you did.
Second:
Dermacrine "makes you feel good", it helps warding off lethargy due to low testosterone, on a MILD cycle (think: ostarine only)
Third:
Most users are a lot more "aware" than you think and probably would not use Sustain Alpha in PCT, unless after a mild cycle.
I used Sustain Alpha years ago after fiddling with some Sarms, for that purpose its a good product.

From what I read, you failed miserably while spending a lot of cash at the same time. The error was to assume, that when using a moderate-harsh stack of orals, a mainstream "test base" is sufficient, when its clearly NOT.

 

[HIT4ME]

I can see how the dhea cream wouldnt convert into testosterone when shutdown, but I still figured 4 andro would because its supposed to convert into testosterone even when one is suppressed otherwise people wouldnt use it while on cycle when their LH is suppressed to 0. Why is everyone acting like I am so suppressed there's no coming back? do you guys have any idea what youre talking about? just because youre pinning testosterone doesnt mean youre not even greater suppressed than I am at the moment. There's nothing wrong with adding andros one month into a sarms cycle, people run dbol as a kicker or a finisher and add various hormones throughout cycles. I already explained that I was suppressed on my previous cycle and ran a pct which got me to 870 test and went back to 550 when i was off of everything for a month. I dont see anyone getting **** for using test, deca, and tren at the same time, but I use 3 suppressive sarms for a month then reduce it to 2 and add some andros, and everyone loses their minds. Hilarious. my test and LH is less suppressed since dropped yk11 and using andros.

I am curious though, if one were to run andros alone wouldnt his or her test be suppressed due to the suppressive nature of andros. thus rendering the ones that convert into testosterone and estrogen completely useless since youre saying they dont work in a suppressive environment? Also, on a few of the sarms forums lots of people were talking about using andros and sarms at the same time

I will stop taking the andros starting today and I will stop the sarms at the end of the week. I took yk, ostarine, rad, and cardarine for a few reasons. I had really good results with rad last time, strength and leans gains, cardarine for endurance, i used ostarine for the first time because it was said to be good for joints, and yk for strength. I realize yk is a myostatin inhibitor and that it works through different mechanisms and is as suppressive as rad. Most people on those sarms forums talk about running 4+ suppressive sarms at the same time. I realize dylan gemilli or whatever his name is is just a marketing, misguiding douche, but he isn't whom i got my information from. If my information is wrong, i believe it. I get most of my info from these types of forums, which is why i posted.

I hope i dont come off too ungrateful. i really appreciate all the feedback

I think it's funny you keep questioning if anyone has any idea what they're talking about and you're the one with test levels below 30 ng/dl. To be more clear, you didn't prove that Dermacrine doesn't work. You proved that you messed up.

And you say you "came back" when you went off YK and credit that rebound to YK but not to the dermacrine you were taking or to a combination thereof?

No one is saying you can't come back. But you were very low and you need to recover. If you know ANYTHING about what you're doing - you have a SERM on hand and you need to take it. Based on what I've seen, I wonder if you were even prepared with a SERM on hand.

So why does everyone take dermacrine as a test base when running suppressive compounds if dermacrine doesn't convert to test in a suppressive environment? that would make dermacrine completely useless. No one natural should take it and no one on anabolics or other suppressive agents should take it. So it's completely useless? I have serms and AIs of all kinds i bought before this cycle for the end of this cycle. I think Ill use only 20mg of clomiphene a day because that should be enough to get me going and I don't like killing estrogen and the like. I also have sustain alpha I may as well try out during my pct, it makes the body more sensitive to LH for those who aren't aware.

Because it's a tool for a different job than you think. It could be used as a base, but it's not going to be some magical substance that overcomes stupidity. It's a tool. It can be used as support. You can't throw all kinds of things at it and expect it to perform miracles and then claim it doesn't work. If anything, you've done more to prove it DOES work than to prove it doesn't work. Even with 2 suppressive compounds and already suppressed test below 30 ng/dl (!!!!!) you came back up and you think it doesn't work??? Maybe...we won't know if you would have come back that high without it, but I'm surprised you came back at all while continuing to use suppressive products.

 

[Skyler777]

Im stupid because i used 3 sarms at the same time? god forbid i do anything other than use 3 steroids at the same time. Im "shutdown" because im not on testosterone like most of the community, just because i have less testosterone doesnt mean that people on multiple roids arent more suppressed than i am. theres nothing stupid about taking 3 sarms at the same time and then using dermacrine. Many people said that using dermacrine is the equivalent to 150/trt of test a week, so my bad in thinking that twice that and 4 andro would boost my testosterone whatsoever. I am a complete idiot for believing people in forums and I should be chasticed for starting a thread about my own ignorance. The only thing that points to me being an idiot is the fact that i thought this was a place for intellectuals to provide information and constructive criticism rather than it being a place predominantly comprised of people making wild assumptions about me and claiming 3 sarms and some andros is worse than dbol deca and test run together. i thought dermacrine and 4 andro was supposed to boost testosterone a bit, i wasnt hoping for a miracle and i didnt even give a **** if they worked or not, i was just testing them and i already proved that they do not boost testosterone or estrogen, so youre welcome. i guarantee i came back because i dropped the yk11, same thing happened my first cycle without using derma or andros. And many of you have implied that it will be extremely difficult to come back or i should just be on trt the rest of my life. A number of you have said things that i know arent true, yet im called misinformed.

 

[Renew1]

So why does everyone take dermacrine as a test base when running suppressive compounds if dermacrine doesn't convert to test in a suppressive environment? that would make dermacrine completely useless. No one natural should take it and no one on anabolics or other suppressive agents should take it. So it's completely useless? I have serms and AIs of all kinds i bought before this cycle for the end of this cycle. I think Ill use only 20mg of clomiphene a day because that should be enough to get me going and I don't like killing estrogen and the like. I also have sustain alpha I may as well try out during my pct, it makes the body more sensitive to LH for those who aren't aware.

Brother, you don't seem to understand that these guys are trying to help you.
You've screwed yourself up pretty bad, and don't seem to understand that, or even how that type of thing works. These guys DO. The advice they are giving you is correct. And almost every single thing that you are writing here is wrong.

People don't take Dermacrine to up their Test (if they understand what they're doing)... They take it to feel better on a suppressive cycle.

You need to stop taking EVERYTHING right now...SARMS, Andros, Dermacrine ..all of it. And start taking a SERM NOW.

And take advice on how much from people that know. Clomid won't crush your Estrogen. Clomid CAN'T crush your Estrogen. That's not how it works.

It isn't a terrible crime for you not to know a lot about these things...but it's incredibly stupid to not listen to people that DO, who are only trying to help you.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

If you really want to know whether or not the dermacrine or DHEA4 is helping, keep running your orals wothout them and see how you feel.

 

[Skyler777]

I want to state that i don't know much about drugs, supplements or substances. A lot of you inferred that my statement about spending countless hours here and there over the past 10 years means that i have been studying illegal drugs, and that i think i know everything. I mostly only obsessed over diets, macros, routines, etc. Only in the past 10 months have I looked into sarms, and only in the past few months have i read about dermacrine, andros, and steroids. I dont know much about them whatsoever. Thats why i only ever used sarms to start, the dermacrine and some andros and used myself as a test subject. I got blood work that proved that they dont increase testosterone or estrogen significantly. Now, anyone who was misinformed like I was now knows that they're not worth taking while on sarms or while suppressed.

 

[hairygrandpa]

That's how your nuts look now: