Best way to control Estrogen from puffy nipples from puberty?

[Dmpesso]

What’s up everyone. This is my first post on here hopefully someone can help. Ever since a teen (hit puberty early before all my friends, had more beard hair then most my friends as well and very high sex drive, which I think might have been because of the high E2). With my shirt off I was never as ripped as my friends and I always had slightly larger and puffy aureolas then others. When I used to smoke cigarettes and my body fat got lower and I was skinny it wasn’t as noticeable, but it was still there. So recently I was taking a test booster with LJ and DIM and I did feel less water retention on my nipples and stomach but after a while it came back, especially when I was consistently taking the full 250mg of DIM which I think was too high. I notice the dim works better in smaller doses. I ordered some eliminate from OL (arimistane) but what would be the best route to stop the puffy nipples for good? I know I can’t always run arimistane so I’m sure the puffiness is going to come back when I’m done using it. If I go and get a real AI from a research lab aren’t I just making myself dependent on those chemicals for the rest of my life? Is it really possible to get rid of them mostly for good? All help is appreciated.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Whats your bodyfat percentage?

 

[Dmpesso]

Whats your bodyfat percentage?

I think I’m around 20% based on those online photos. Maybe a little more. When I cut carbs a while back I had slightly visible abs, nips went down a bit but even when it was warm out they would come out. I just feel like the way my body holds fat/water, makes me think I have higher E2 then normal. Mainly around my chest and love handles. When I read that dude skinny fat transformation’s Page, I definitely looked similar to his starting photos, especially when I gained weight. My body would hold fat similar to his. I tend to notice dudes with no estrogen problems just get a gut and barely any chest fat. Just a personal observation. A couple years ago I got a blood test my T was at 595 and free T was way over the limit, but they didn’t test my E2. Ive heard very high free T leaves a very high chance of conversion to E. I am going to have another blood test done soon, I just don’t have insurance and have to pay cash. I feel like this LJ100 I’ve been taking has raised my test a bit.

 

[Dmpesso]

Also would Letrone be better? I just found out about it and it’s only one ingredient.

 

[musclemaker]

I would suggest working on lowering your body fat and tweaking your diet.

Not saying you have a crappy diet, but a bad diet will increase estrogen.

 

[Dmpesso]

I would suggest working on lowering your body fat and tweaking your diet.

Not saying you have a crappy diet, but a bad diet will increase estrogen.

I try to eat healthy and eat a lot of veggies and organic grass fed blah blah. I only notice it comes down when I avoid sodium which is basically all take out food. Obviously water retention from sodium but I still think my e2 is high because some people can eat this stuff and not have any issues in their chest area

 

[jameschoi]

Don't eat take out food, you killing yourself.

 

[Dmpesso]

Well what I mean by take out is healthyish outside food. I barely ever eat bad maybe a burger or Chinese on the weekends but mainly places like dig inn, roti or Chop’t. Always healthy but of course much more salt then what would be cooked at home. Something like chopotle for instance has almost a days worth of sodium or at least more then 1000mg in one meal. But even then, plenty of people can eat these foods and not retain water in their nipples.

 

[Dmpesso]

Back to the original question though, is it possible that these products (arimistane, DHAA, Letrone, etc) can effectively bring down estrogen and won’t make it come back with a vengeance and even higher when I stop taking them ? Because I’m 6 ft and weigh 172 so I’m not necessarily overweight but I am not ripped. They’re are plenty of people who have more muscle definition naturally at my weight or above, so I’m sure this is all hormone related and genetics. Is the only answer for me to really just get as skinny as possible ?

 

[BloodManor]

First get to under 15% bf
If it is still there than maybe we can offer you options. Get blood work to see where your E is at and just don’t guess. Then talk to the doctor because the only true way to get rid of gyno is to get it removed.

 

[Dmpesso]

First get to under 15% bf
If it is still there than maybe we can offer you options. Get blood work to see where your E is at and just don’t guess. Then talk to the doctor because the only true way to get rid of gyno is to get it removed.

Please offer advice as if I’m at 15% now. Maybe I already am below 20%. I am going to post a pic of me how I usually look in the morning when I’m not eating too many carbs as you can see no puffiness there.

 

[Dmpesso]

Is it because I’m new I can’t add a photo? It lets me upload but I don’t see anywhere to press save

 

[AntM1564]

Back to the original question though, is it possible that these products (arimistane, DHAA, Letrone, etc) can effectively bring down estrogen and won’t make it come back with a vengeance and even higher when I stop taking them ? Because I’m 6 ft and weigh 172 so I’m not necessarily overweight but I am not ripped. They’re are plenty of people who have more muscle definition naturally at my weight or above, so I’m sure this is all hormone related and genetics. Is the only answer for me to really just get as skinny as possible ?

Nothing OTC will lower estrogen. You can control cortisol with OTC products and ingredients, but not estrogen.

 

[Dmpesso]

Nothing OTC will lower estrogen. You can control cortisol with OTC products and ingredients, but not estrogen.

So arimistane only lowers cortisol? It must be a diarectic because people lose tons of water weight. Can that be from cortisol only? I’ve never heard of cortisol causing water retention. I take ashwagandha I don’t want to kill my cortisol if that’s all the arimistane does. They have to somewhat work with estrogen.

If I were to use a real AI or SERM from one of those research labs if it actually reduces my puffy nipples would they come back once I stop? Once I start I have to cycle them on and off for life no?

 

[Bintherduntht]

What’s up everyone. This is my first post on here hopefully someone can help. Ever since a teen (hit puberty early before all my friends, had more beard hair then most my friends as well and very high sex drive, which I think might have been because of the high E2). With my shirt off I was never as ripped as my friends and I always had slightly larger and puffy aureolas then others. When I used to smoke cigarettes and my body fat got lower and I was skinny it wasn’t as noticeable, but it was still there. So recently I was taking a test booster with LJ and DIM and I did feel less water retention on my nipples and stomach but after a while it came back, especially when I was consistently taking the full 250mg of DIM which I think was too high. I notice the dim works better in smaller doses. I ordered some eliminate from OL (arimistane) but what would be the best route to stop the puffy nipples for good? I know I can’t always run arimistane so I’m sure the puffiness is going to come back when I’m done using it. If I go and get a real AI from a research lab aren’t I just making myself dependent on those chemicals for the rest of my life? Is it really possible to get rid of them mostly for good? All help is appreciated.

You sound like me my dude. Probably an Endomorph? If so, it can be the most frustrating type of physique to try to change.

I too was never ripped like my brothers or friends growing up. 0 muscle definition, skinny arms with a gut and tits.

I had my prepubescent gyno was like you described, bigger nips that were puffy and painful with lumps. Sadly they were there until after puberty, which then I was left with just tits(no lumps or pain)

I had them until 20 when I did my first test cycle.

They are mostly fat with some estro.

Lose as much fat as you can, and maybe get some nolvadex. Nolvadex rid me of my life long gyno completely, and they only really come back when my BF is high or if I use really wet compounds with no nolvadex.

It's an issue that can be resolved man! It's not permanent!

I know all about them. It's not fun being a boy with fukkin tits lmao.

But when I did get in shape, everyone suddenly went quiet lol

 

[Dmpesso]

You sound like me my dude. Probably an Endomorph? If so, it can be the most frustrating type of physique to try to change.



I too was never ripped like my brothers or friends growing up. 0 muscle definition, skinny arms with a gut and tits.

I had my prepubescent gyno was like you described, bigger nips that were puffy and painful with lumps. Sadly they were there until after puberty, which then I was left with just tits(no lumps or pain)

I had them until 20 when I did my first test cycle.

They are mostly fat with some estro.

Lose as much fat as you can, and maybe get some nolvadex. Nolvadex rid me of my life long gyno completely, and they only really come back when my BF is high or if I use really wet compounds with no nolvadex.

It's an issue that can be resolved man! It's not permanent!

I know all about them. It's not fun being a boy with fukkin tits lmao.

But when I did get in shape, everyone suddenly went quiet lol

Thanks man. That’s very encouraging. I wouldn’t say I’m a full endomorph though. I was always tall and skinny until they put me on depakote which is when I started to gain weight and I was on it for a lot of my puberty. I think it definitely messed with my hormones. It raises testosterone and estrogen so I think that played a part. I didn’t have a big stomach with skinny arms necessarily. I had broad shoulders and a large back to the point where my friends would call brawlic back. I just was softer then my friends and didn’t have as much muscle definition but they were skinny so I can’t really compare myself to them. I think the meds I was on made me have higher Aromatase to estrogen. However it could also be genetic as my father is from Morocco and is naturally very skinny and has somewhat larger aereolas then your average male but no puffiness. When he gained weight recently from eating too many carbs and getting older I can see his nipples and chest got larger along with his gut. He was always skinny when he was younger. I think genetically I have to remain skinny. I saw on TV some doctor told DJ Khaled something like that. If your genetics are skinny you cannot over eat or you will easily become overweight. Makes sense I guess.

I think it all comes down to not having enough T to support the high estrogen. That’s why your nips went away when you did a cycle of T. Makes sense as it changes the ratio. So your saying if I just take Nolvadex by itself without any testosterone it can kill this estrogen and I only have to run it once? I thought once you go down that route of chemicals you have to always take them on and off for life. I wanted to truly make that my last resort but i wanna get rid of this estrogen already.

 

[Dmpesso]

I just got a bottle of eliminate today. I wonder how it’s going to work for me

 

[Bintherduntht]

Thanks man. That’s very encouraging. I wouldn’t say I’m a full endomorph though. I was always tall and skinny until they put me on depakote which is when I started to gain weight and I was on it for a lot of my puberty. I think it definitely messed with my hormones. It raises testosterone and estrogen so I think that played a part. I didn’t have a big stomach with skinny arms necessarily. I had broad shoulders and a large back to the point where my friends would call brawlic back. I just was softer then my friends and didn’t have as much muscle definition but they were skinny so I can’t really compare myself to them. I think the meds I was on made me have higher Aromatase to estrogen. However it could also be genetic as my father is from Morocco and is naturally very skinny and has somewhat larger aereolas then your average male but no puffiness. When he gained weight recently from eating too many carbs and getting older I can see his nipples and chest got larger along with his gut. He was always skinny when he was younger. I think genetically I have to remain skinny. I saw on TV some doctor told DJ Khaled something like that. If your genetics are skinny you cannot over eat or you will easily become overweight. Makes sense I guess.

I think it all comes down to not having enough T to support the high estrogen. That’s why your nips went away when you did a cycle of T. Makes sense as it changes the ratio. So your saying if I just take Nolvadex by itself without any testosterone it can kill this estrogen and I only have to run it once? I thought once you go down that route of chemicals you have to always take them on and off for life. I wanted to truly make that my last resort but i wanna get rid of this estrogen already.

A SERM like nolvadex isn't "down that route"

It's not an anabolic it will help your balls produce natural test while blocking the estro at your nips.

For me, it made my nips shrink right up lol

 

[Dmpesso]

For what it’s worth my balls are huge lol. So I don’t think I have an issue with test. More with converting to estrogen.

 

[Bintherduntht]

For what it’s worth my balls are huge lol. So I don’t think I have an issue with test. More with converting to estrogen.

Than nolvadex

 

[Bintherduntht]

So arimistane only lowers cortisol? It must be a diarectic because people lose tons of water weight. Can that be from cortisol only? I’ve never heard of cortisol causing water retention. I take ashwagandha I don’t want to kill my cortisol if that’s all the arimistane does. They have to somewhat work with estrogen.

If I were to use a real AI or SERM from one of those research labs if it actually reduces my puffy nipples would they come back once I stop? Once I start I have to cycle them on and off for life no?

Nolvadex sucks all the water out too.

 

[Dmpesso]

So I can run Nolvadex one time and my estrogen won’t come back with a rebound when I’m done? You sure? Nolvadex is SERM right? So it will “modulate” my estrogen receptor on my chest and what happens when I’m done using it? I’m just real worried to start these “prescription” drugs.

I just took one eliminate for the first time, so let’s see how this goes. Same ingredient that’s in the original erase pro that everyone raved about

 

[Bintherduntht]

So I can run Nolvadex one time and my estrogen won’t come back with a rebound when I’m done? You sure? Nolvadex is SERM right? So it will “modulate” my estrogen receptor on my chest and what happens when I’m done using it? I’m just real worried to start these “prescription” drugs.

I just took one eliminate for the first time, so let’s see how this goes. Same ingredient that’s in the original erase pro that everyone raved about

It shouldn't cause rebound.

What's the ingredient?

 

[Dmpesso]

Just found this online about Nolvadex aka tamoxifen. This just worried me how is this possible:

A study published in the Journal of Endocrinology(3) showed that long term tamoxifen use increased serum testosterone levels by 50% which is certainly a healthy increase. However, at the same time serum estrogen levels increased by a massive 341%. In fact, in the control group in this study, which only used tamoxifen for a week, estrogen rose after just four days. Considering that the subjects in this trial used tamoxifen at a lower dose of just 10mg it begs the question of what would happen if used at the higher dose typically seen in bodybuilding circles.

 

[Dmpesso]

It shouldn't cause rebound.

What's the ingredient?

Arimistane

 

[Bintherduntht]

Just found this online about Nolvadex aka tamoxifen. This just worried me how is this possible:

A study published in the Journal of Endocrinology(3) showed that long term tamoxifen use increased serum testosterone levels by 50% which is certainly a healthy increase. However, at the same time serum estrogen levels increased by a massive 341%. In fact, in the control group in this study, which only used tamoxifen for a week, estrogen rose after just four days. Considering that the subjects in this trial used tamoxifen at a lower dose of just 10mg it begs the question of what would happen if used at the higher dose typically seen in bodybuilding circles.

I use it at 20mg once a week to keep my nuggets full and gyno at bay.

It increases estrogen in some parts of the body(which is good look it up) while decreasing receptors at the nipples.

It helps keep cholesterol in check too

 

[Dmpesso]

So you had smaller testicles before you took any test? I’m just curious because your saying it helps keep your nuggets full lol. I don’t wanna start taking the same dose as you if we have different starting points and mess myself up. I don’t have insurance so it’s all going to be cash based I gotta be very careful. I can’t afford so many blood tests I live in NYC and it’s so expensive it’s ridiculous. NY has a law that means I can’t get bloods without paying for a cash visit to a dr for referral first, which is at least $100. Clearly the Nolva suppresses estrogen if that alone made your nuggets more full (if they were smaller then average to begin with) or were they only small from using testosterone?

 

[Bintherduntht]

So you had smaller testicles before you took any test? I’m just curious because your saying it helps keep your nuggets full lol. I don’t wanna start taking the same dose as you if we have different starting points and mess myself up. I don’t have insurance so it’s all going to be cash based I gotta be very careful. I can’t afford so many blood tests I live in NYC and it’s so expensive it’s ridiculous. NY has a law that means I can’t get bloods without paying for a cash visit to a dr for referral first, which is at least $100. Clearly the Nolva suppresses estrogen if that alone made your nuggets more full (if they were smaller then average to begin with) or were they only small from using testosterone?

Smaller from test bro lmao

 

[Dmpesso]

Smaller from test bro lmao

Loll!! So before you took the test you were able to get rid of the Gyno with Nolva? Or did you only take Nolva after you used test?

 

[Dmpesso]

Seems like from what I’m reading that it does work for some people as a stand alone and the Gyno never came back. It’s just weird because it shows that it does increase estrogen and test but by blocking the receptor it stopped Gyno. Really makes you think it can come back after you stop using it

I think I’m gonna get my blood drawn first to see where my E2 and test is at roughly before I start anything.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Seems like from what I’m reading that it does work for some people as a stand alone and the Gyno never came back. It’s just weird because it shows that it does increase estrogen and test but by blocking the receptor it stopped Gyno. Really makes you think it can come back after you stop using it

I think I’m gonna get my blood drawn first to see where my E2 and test is at roughly before I start anything.

I told you it increases good estro! You don't want 0 estro. Your dong won't work.

Let me know what other research you find

 

[Bintherduntht]

Loll!! So before you took the test you were able to get rid of the Gyno with Nolva? Or did you only take Nolva after you used test?

I had moobs and was chubby and just soft.

Then I took test and it completely changed me.

At just 250mg a week too.

Then I took the nolvadex and it sucked all the water out, was a good pct and nips completely went away

 

[Dmpesso]

Even working out you had moobs and no muscle? You really make me wanna start test but that’s a road I know once you start you can’t just stop and that **** ain’t cheap. I’m 30 by the way. I know test will just let me put on muscle and lose fat without even having to work out. I’m just not sure if I NEED it. I definitely boosted my test naturally with all the push-ups and pull-ups I’ve been doing since I don’t go to the gym. I used to be simply skinny fat now I have definition in my pecs and I’m more muscular then I used to be. With a tight shirt on people think I have abs and I’m in excellent shape when in reality in a hot room I look rather normal and flabby. I need to post a pic. If I cut carbs I can get some definition in my abs but low carbing sucks

 

[Bintherduntht]

Even working out you had moobs and no muscle? You really make me wanna start test but that’s a road I know once you start you can’t just stop and that **** ain’t cheap. I’m 30 by the way. I know test will just let me put on muscle and lose fat without even having to work out. I’m just not sure if I NEED it. I definitely boosted my test naturally with all the push-ups and pull-ups I’ve been doing since I don’t go to the gym. I used to be simply skinny fat now I have definition in my pecs and I’m more muscular then I used to be. With a tight shirt on people think I have abs and I’m in excellent shape when in reality in a hot room I look rather normal and flabby. I need to post a pic. If I cut carbs I can get some definition in my abs but low carbing sucks

Post up!

I was skinny fat until I took my first test cycle at 20. Before that I worked out for 6 years and didn't gain a pound.

For me, it started with one cycle, and I missed the gains sooo much I did another. And another. And another.

Fast forward 8 years and I've only come off for about 1-2 years.

It has cost me thousands and thousands.

Keep that in mind!

 

[CornbreadBath]

Seems like from what I’m reading that it does work for some people as a stand alone and the Gyno never came back. It’s just weird because it shows that it does increase estrogen and test but by blocking the receptor it stopped Gyno. Really makes you think it can come back after you stop using it

I think I’m gonna get my blood drawn first to see where my E2 and test is at roughly before I start anything.

Rebound gyno is absolutely a thing with Nolva. It doesn't always happen, but it is always a risk. Though the risk can be largely mitigated by getting your E2 levels checked right before you stop taking Nolva and then using letro to wipe out your E2 if you need to do so. The only danger with taking Nolva and then just stopping blind is that your E2 levels may be very high and will bring the gyno right back. Just make sure to track with bloodwork.

Or look into Raloxifene.

Raloxifiene is more effective at treating gyno than Nolvadex and has far fewer/less severe side effects
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=15238910

About 5/6 had a > 50% reduction. The average guy had a 2/3 reduction in size. Treatment was 5 months @ 60mg.

Nolvadex is a 2nd gen serm that's 40 years old. It has since been eclipsed by newer generation serms like Ralox. Nolva works, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Rebound gyno is absolutely a thing with Nolva. It doesn't always happen, but it is always a risk. Though the risk can be largely mitigated by getting your E2 levels checked right before you stop taking Nolva and then using letro to wipe out your E2 if you need to do so. The only danger with taking Nolva and then just stopping blind is that your E2 levels may be very high and will bring the gyno right back. Just make sure to track with bloodwork.

Or look into Raloxifene.

Raloxifiene is more effective at treating gyno than Nolvadex and has far fewer/less severe side effects
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=15238910

Nolvadex is a 2nd gen serm that's 40 years old. It has since been eclipsed by newer generation serms like Ralox. Nolva works, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Yea well it's my first choice.

Because it's well documented, and it fukkin works.

I have never had rebound estro problems with it.

A very solid staple to have!

It has not "been ecilpsed" lmao

 

[Bintherduntht]

Rebound gyno is absolutely a thing with Nolva. It doesn't always happen, but it is always a risk. Though the risk can be largely mitigated by getting your E2 levels checked right before you stop taking Nolva and then using letro to wipe out your E2 if you need to do so. The only danger with taking Nolva and then just stopping blind is that your E2 levels may be very high and will bring the gyno right back. Just make sure to track with bloodwork.

Or look into Raloxifene.

Raloxifiene is more effective at treating gyno than Nolvadex and has far fewer/less severe side effects
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=15238910

Nolvadex is a 2nd gen serm that's 40 years old. It has since been eclipsed by newer generation serms like Ralox. Nolva works, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

I've been using it for 8 years, getting blood work done.

I've never experienced side effects

 

[Dmpesso]

Post up!

I was skinny fat until I took my first test cycle at 20. Before that I worked out for 6 years and didn't gain a pound.

For me, it started with one cycle, and I missed the gains sooo much I did another. And another. And another.

Fast forward 8 years and I've only come off for about 1-2 years.

It has cost me thousands and thousands.

Keep that in mind!

I wish I could post a pic it doesn’t let me upload anything. Must be because I’m a new member. I think I may have a slightly different issue then you. I didn’t have lumps just puffy nipples and when I work out I definitely gain muscle easily. Doing a few hundred pushups every couple of days changed my body a lot, especially my chest but my nips still get puffy when they are warm. Maybe I just had higher test and high estrogen where as you had low test and high estrogen. I gain weight rather easily if I eat more then usual. I don’t even like it I would rather be shredded and lean. How was your libido before starting T? I have to get my bloods done maybe I don’t need something as extreme as Nolva, although it seems nothing else works.

 

[Bintherduntht]

I wish I could post a pic it doesn’t let me upload anything. Must be because I’m a new member. I think I may have a slightly different issue then you. I didn’t have lumps just puffy nipples and when I work out I definitely gain muscle easily. Doing a few hundred pushups every couple of days changed my body a lot, especially my chest but my nips still get puffy when they are warm. Maybe I just had higher test and high estrogen where as you had low test and high estrogen. I gain weight rather easily if I eat more then usual. I don’t even like it I would rather be shredded and lean. How was your libido before starting T? I have to get my bloods done maybe I don’t need something as extreme as Nolva, although it seems nothing else works.

Your issue is the same man believe me. I don't have lumps either.

My test was normal before I started. On the higher side actually.

 

[Dmpesso]

Rebound gyno is absolutely a thing with Nolva. It doesn't always happen, but it is always a risk. Though the risk can be largely mitigated by getting your E2 levels checked right before you stop taking Nolva and then using letro to wipe out your E2 if you need to do so. The only danger with taking Nolva and then just stopping blind is that your E2 levels may be very high and will bring the gyno right back. Just make sure to track with bloodwork.

Or look into Raloxifene.

Raloxifiene is more effective at treating gyno than Nolvadex and has far fewer/less severe side effects

Nolvadex is a 2nd gen serm that's 40 years old. It has since been eclipsed by newer generation serms like Ralox. Nolva works, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

You see, that’s what I’m worried about. Just hearing it raises test and estrogen even though it blocks the receptors on your chest, common sense would lead you to believe when your done using it the Gyno would come back. I mean it doesn’t permanently block the E receptors on your chest. That’s the issue for me, so many choices I have no idea which one would be the best. Even if I had insurance doctors have no idea either when it comes to hormones they just keep writing scripts until something works and if you get sides they write you another script for that.

 

[Dmpesso]

Your issue is the same man believe me. I don't have lumps either.

My test was normal before I started. On the higher side actually.

Yea so maybe for both of us it just isn’t naturally high enough to compensate for the high E. I’m sure I would feel amazing on T I just don’t know if I can bring myself to start something that extreme. Have you ever gotten bloods done on T? How high has it gone? Just curious what levels you had to make you look the way your avatar does. Would probably be impossible for me to obtain a physique like yours naturally anyway.

 

[Dmpesso]

Just found out I need 40 posts to add photos so let’s just keep talking so I can add my photos already loll.

 

[CornbreadBath]

You see, that’s what I’m worried about. Just hearing it raises test and estrogen even though it blocks the receptors on your chest, common sense would lead you to believe when your done using it the Gyno would come back. I mean it doesn’t permanently block the E receptors on your chest. That’s the issue for me, so many choices I have no idea which one would be the best.

Gyno is often the result of chronic inflammation. And just by running a serm for a few months, it can often shrink up and won't return.
This is only true for moderate gyno. If it's really bad - like this:

surgery is the only option.

Nolva/Ralox are not magic. And they have varying effects on gyno. Some people see a total permanent elimination of gyno... some people see only a temporary reduction.

It should never make it worse, and most people see very positive permanent results.

 

[Dmpesso]

Gyno is often the result of chronic inflammation. And just by running a serm for a few months, it can often shrink up and won't return.
This is only true for moderate gyno. If it's really bad - like this:

surgery is the only option.

Nolva/Ralox are not magic. And they have varying effects on gyno. Some people see a total permanent elimination of gyno... some people see only a temporary reduction.

It should never make it worse, and most people see very positive permanent results.

Mine is not nearly like that. I can’t wait to post a pic now lol. Funny you mention inflammation because I definitely have that. I wonder the true cause of chronic inflammation. Especially because my nose is broken it’s so inflamed. When I take two Motrin I can instantly breathe better. I also just generally feel better when I have ibuprofen of aspirin in my system so I suspect I do have chronic inflammation as well. I’m going to post a photo and you can help me decide if I am a true candidate for a SERM. I am really starting to think anyone with a skinny fat type of body without natural muscular definition just has too much estrogen in comparison to T and it will always hold back the body from a true manly composition. Just my observations

 

[Dmpesso]

So the other dude recommended Nolva. What would you recommend then for strictly puberty Gyno. Never took any hormones only LJ100, some natural test booster with fenugreek, boron LJ. Nothing crazy. I will research both and try to decide what’s best for me after i get my blood work.

 

[CornbreadBath]

So the other dude recommended Nolva. What would you recommend then for strictly puberty Gyno..

Nolva will work, and if this was 1995 it would be the only option and that's what I would suggest. But I do believe Ralox is the better choice for gyno for the reasons previously mentioned. It has been shown to shrink the growth to a greater degree than Nolva, it has fewer side effects, and there is no risk of gyno rebound because it barely elevates test or E2 levels.

Nolva is a solid treatment, and far more people have had success with it than Ralox. Ralox is not especially new(20 years old), but it only recently became a generic drug. It was very difficult to source 5+ years ago. It's gotten notably easier to find just in the past 2 years. Plenty of people take Nolva without issue. But it causes sides for some people. I've really never heard of problems with Ralox. I can say my personal sides with Ralox and Torem vs Clomid and Nolva are day and night different. I feel very normal on Torem and Ralox, Clomid and Nolva have a very noticeable and negative effect on me. And my sides are a lot lower than what other people get.

Some people can use Nolva and Ralox without sides. Some people can use Ralox without sides, while Nolva gives sides. I have never heard of someone who has no sides on Nolva, but has them on Ralox.

 

[Dmpesso]

Hmm. Just found this study also. It’s interesting to know they’re both SERMS but they have different ways of working. I’m just trying to understand how it can remove Gyno and it never comes back after I stop taking them. So the SERM attaches to estrogen receptors in the breast, which then over time allows it to shrink as it has less exposure to estrogen while on the SERM. But what happens after you stop using the product? Does anyone know? Do the receptors go back to normal? Is the only reason SERMS work because naturally you can’t target and supress estrogen at the breast, so essentially the receptors on the breasts are constantly being exposed to too much E so they can never naturally shrink and only a SERM can temporarily block the receptors from attaching to more E?

RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen.

Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

 

[Dmpesso]

Also, just to confirm I won’t need to run any PCT or anything else when I’m done using it? I can strictly take the SERM alone with no T or anything else at all?

 

[Bintherduntht]

Also, just to confirm I won’t need to run any PCT or anything else when I’m done using it? I can strictly take the SERM alone with no T or anything else at all?

Yes you can take a SERM with no pct because it is a PCT in itself!

If I'm on a test cycle I will use nolva as pct.

I'm not sure if it PERMANENTLY will rid you of puffy nips, but it's a hell of a good start.

I guess research the two, nolva and the other, then pic one!

Nolva is pretty cheap, I'm not sure about the other.

Just take it man. 20mg a day for 4 weeks

 

[Dmpesso]

Yes you can take a SERM with no pct because it is a PCT in itself!

If I'm on a test cycle I will use nolva as pct.

I'm not sure if it PERMANENTLY will rid you of puffy nips, but it's a hell of a good start.

I guess research the two, nolva and the other, then pic one!

Nolva is pretty cheap, I'm not sure about the other.

Just take it man. 20mg a day for 4 weeks

Ralox has less side effects and doesn’t increase estrogen as much according to studies so maybe I’ll try that. Now my final question. What’s the most reliable of these research sites to get it? It’s hard to trust those places god knows what your getting really