Why is it so hard to make an effective OTC PCT?

Cheeky Monkey

Cheeky Monkey

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Hello,

Why is it so hard for supp companies to make a prescription level strength OTC PCT comparable to Nolva/Clomid? I mean, there are many OTC PCT products but universally everyone says to forget about them and just get the real stuff. So why have OTC PCT option at all?
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Hello,

Why is it so hard for supp companies to make a prescription level strength OTC PCT comparable to Nolva/Clomid? I mean, there are many OTC PCT products but universally everyone says to forget about them and just get the real stuff. So why have OTC PCT option at all?
Supplement companies are limited to using naturally occurring chemicals for the most part - but an even bigger issue is that the R&D budgets of a pharmaceutical company making a prescription drug will dwarf the REVENUES of all but the largest supplement manufacturers. If it costs more to R&D a product than your entire company produces in revenue (not even profits) - well, then, you just can't do it.
 
christ83189

christ83189

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
BLR Rebirth. Problem solved.
Ive heard good things about that... But would i trust it after running a cycle of dmz or msten or m1a? Probably not. Of course i dont have to worry about pct anymore but i wouldnt recommend it to anyone
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Yes - the other thing is, even if a supplement company came out with something that was effective - how would we know? They don't have the budgets to conduct safety and efficacy studies - so you'd just be going on their word. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't....but if your health is on the line wouldn't you put some value in KNOWING something probably works because there are multiple and high quality studies, etc?
 

InItForGainz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Firstly, it's about money. As HIT4ME said, pharmaceutical companies have much bigger budgets and access to more materials than most supplement companies. Pharma companies also hold more patents on certain druugs that only they have access too.
Secondly, for PCT we're talking about kickstarting a whole bodily system after it has been shutdown. I don't know about others, but to me this seems like a really big deal. If it isn't done right then you risk loosing the gains you made on cycle and even more so the risk of more prolonged health issues and complications, i.e. gyno and secondary hypogonadism.
 
Cheeky Monkey

Cheeky Monkey

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
This is my point here. Why bother to make OTC PCT products and market it as such when traditional PCT is still needed.

edit: I was referring to AntM1564 post who was responding to Bigsmall.
 

Anabaholic

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
As others have mentioned it's probably mostly due to lack of r and d budget. However, I would imagine it should be possible to make an effective Oct PCT; the body is very resilient, and PCT is a fairly new concept, from what I've read everyone used to either pulse or taper off and that was it and for those people an OTC product would still make a difference in their recovery. Also, many medicines started out as herbal extracts, so I don't think we should be quick to discount herbal medicine, but then again do you place more faith in a researched, commonly used medicine or an herbal extract that theoretically 'should' work?
 

JVee63

New member
Awards
0
This is my point here. Why bother to make OTC PCT products and market it as such when traditional PCT is still needed.

edit: I was referring to AntM1564 post who was responding to Bigsmall.
$$$$$. People with interests other than your well being will have their reps praise the products and convince those less knowledgeable to spend their money on them. Of course, you can say the same about the vast majority of supplements.
 
christ83189

christ83189

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
$$$$$. People with interests other than your well being will have their reps praise the products and convince those less knowledgeable to spend their money on them. Of course, you can say the same about the vast majority of supplements.
Sad but true
 
Jiigzz

Jiigzz

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • First Up Vote
In my mind an OTC PCT isn't designed to restart any systems, but just help jump start the process for feeling good again.

Most T boosters aren't all that effective in actually increasing T, lets be realistic, but they do help with sleep, mood, libido and all the other things people associate with T that a SERM might not actually assist with.

It's not to replace, but to assist.
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
This is my point here. Why bother to make OTC PCT products and market it as such when traditional PCT is still needed.

edit: I was referring to AntM1564 post who was responding to Bigsmall.
In my mind an OTC PCT isn't designed to restart any systems, but just help jump start the process for feeling good again.

Most T boosters aren't all that effective in actually increasing T, lets be realistic, but they do help with sleep, mood, libido and all the other things people associate with T that a SERM might not actually assist with.

It's not to replace, but to assist.
Pretty much this and what others have said about $$$.

It is to "supplement" your PCT. As an example, TUDCA and NAC aren't going to replace steroids, but they would be wise additions to a cycle for support. OTC PTC is to help support your OCT.

Also...its a tool and application is important. You can run your pharma products and get things restarted and then use a natural product after that to help support your own natural production.

Some of the PCT supps can also be used to just help support normal function too even for people who aren't cycling.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
6
  • Best Answer
  • The BigT Award
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
Supplement companies are limited to using naturally occurring chemicals for the most part - but an even bigger issue is that the R&D budgets of a pharmaceutical company making a prescription drug will dwarf the REVENUES of all but the largest supplement manufacturers. If it costs more to R&D a product than your entire company produces in revenue (not even profits) - well, then, you just can't do it.
also...if a supp company were to invest in big budgeted R@D it is much harder if not impossible to patent 'NATURAL' ingredients...since labels need to show ingredients used, it wouldn't be long for copycat products to show up at a lower price...
 
AntM1564

AntM1564

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
This is my point here. Why bother to make OTC PCT products and market it as such when traditional PCT is still needed.

edit: I was referring to AntM1564 post who was responding to Bigsmall.
In my mind an OTC PCT isn't designed to restart any systems, but just help jump start the process for feeling good again.

Most T boosters aren't all that effective in actually increasing T, lets be realistic, but they do help with sleep, mood, libido and all the other things people associate with T that a SERM might not actually assist with.

It's not to replace, but to assist.
This.
 
Nac

Nac

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
An OTC option is potentially better than using nothing. Id wager most guys have no idea what a SERM even is, let alone how to procure one.

I mean, as much as we like to proclaim supp stores "irresponsibility" for promoting natty products for PCT, its fairly obvious they cannot publically recommend pharma SERMs to people even if they wanted to.
 

bigsmall

Banned
Awards
0
Uh, no. As am addition to a SERM, sure. Not as a replacement
In and around the time it was released, brundel reported this being effective as a SERM replacement. Meaning a number of folks had used it as a SERM successfully (with blood work). Maybe I am not remembering this correctly.
 

Transhuman

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
In and around the time it was released, brundel reported this being effective as a SERM replacement. Meaning a number of folks had used it as a SERM successfully (with blood work). Maybe I am not remembering this correctly.
You need actual proof, not a claim by the owner about his own product he's selling.
 

bigsmall

Banned
Awards
0
brundel justhere4comm - Was rebirth not successfully used by a number of folks for PCT as a replacement for clomid / nolva?
 
bell1986

bell1986

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Why would you bother when a legitimate SERM is superior in every. single. way. ??
This Exactly.

If i am on cycle i would never run an OTC. Its just as cheap if not cheaper to use a Pharma grade that has been proven in studies to work. Not just people saying it does. Estrogen can honestly create havoc in a body. Arimidex & Aromasin both completely stop this. Where as Nolvadex blocks it at the trouble area's ie Nipples (Gyno). Never go based on people saying i felt a drying out effect or im sure my itchy nipples stopped etc. NEVER. Just buy pharma if your on cycle.. Thats not to say have a mild OTC if your just looking to dry out but only if you aren't using hormones. Thier are a few good OTC ones but thier nowhere in the range of Pharma.
 
justhere4comm

justhere4comm

Banned
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
brundel justhere4comm - Was rebirth not successfully used by a number of folks for PCT as a replacement for clomid / nolva?
When you look at SARM cycles.

I think you could do well with an albeit more expensive but entirely legal run, while remaining legal.
That's the point here isn't it? I trust Rebirth more than any other OTC product. REBIRTH / VECTOR would be a great PCT.
Instead of 4 weeks, one would extend their PCT to 6-*8 weeks. The logic I am going with is a SERM here would be (25/25/12.5/12.5/12.5/00.0)

You may even gain in your PCT with the addition of VECTOR.
If running other cycles, then they would make an amazing addition to your PCT.

I can't speak to anyone who's replaced a SERM with REBIRTH. brundel is more able to address your question.





(For complete transparency for those on mobile devices, you don't see my signature. I am a representative of BLR http://www.blacklionresearch.com, as well when invoking MARK15 you can gain a reduction of 15% on all BLR products sold on our site.)
 
LeanEngineer

LeanEngineer

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I always go by the rule of no serm no cycle. That's just my general rule but of course i know people who will run mild cycles and just use an otc pct product like rebirth but i would never recommend it. Imo it's more of an additional product to use with a serm.
 
justhere4comm

justhere4comm

Banned
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Hello,

Why is it so hard for supp companies to make a prescription level strength OTC PCT comparable to Nolva/Clomid? I mean, there are many OTC PCT products but universally everyone says to forget about them and just get the real stuff. So why have OTC PCT option at all?
Why have them? Because not all cycles use compounds requiring the SERMS which are prescription based much like the cycled compounds.

An OTC PCT would be more expensive, and need to be run longer than a non-OTC PCT.
As I mentioned in another post, BLR's VECTOR would be an incredible addition any PCT, and the same goes for REBIRTH.
 
Whisky

Whisky

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
Just in my mind not using a serm is a bit like not wearing protection when ducking a crack wh0re......is it likely to be a massive issue.....probably not......is it likely to mess u up badly for a bit......probably.... .....afterwards will you think it was worth it .....defo not.

Dirtier the wh0re = higher chance of problems

There’ll always be the odd one or two who get away with it no problems but for most it’s gonna be a bad idea......
 
Young Gotti

Young Gotti

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
even if there was an OTC PCT that was as effective, lets say a company found the magic profile, ppl would still need to prove it's as effective....why not just go with what works, gets rid of a lot of questions and concerns

I also do believe there are many OTC PCT products on the market that assist SERMS in the recovery process....I wouldn't recommend doing a PCT without a SERM but I also wouldn't recommend just using a SERM as a standalone PCT either, theres a lot more that goes into it
 

210LBS

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Supplement companies make a ton of money on this PCT idea - that's why they keep releasing these products. For my PCT I'm going to be running clomid, rebirth, and a test booster along with other products. They see people like me as cash cows.
 
Jiigzz

Jiigzz

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • First Up Vote
In and around the time it was released, brundel reported this being effective as a SERM replacement. Meaning a number of folks had used it as a SERM successfully (with blood work). Maybe I am not remembering this correctly.
There are a few things to bear in mind with statements like these. The first is that it is entirely possible the people who successfully recovered using only that supplement would have recovered without it. Some people just do. It depends almost entirely on their physiology, age, type of cycle and it's duration etc.

Secondly is that it is also possible they used a SERM and didn't declare it. The Internet is a strange place were claims made by people may never be truly verified. It wouldn't be like it was the first time someone lied on the Internet lol.

Lastly, it did actually improve their values and works exactly as claimed.

Here's my primary issue though - why risk it? The HPTA is no joke and you are gambling a lot by not using a SERM during PCT. If anything, using OTC supplements is something to use in conjunction with a SERM but never as a replacement. You literally have your health riding on the line.

In my mind it is akin to saying a supplement will cure cancer, diabetes or cancer. You are literally playing with fire when you recommend people anything other than the tried and true, especially as it isn't your health personally on the line.

Depends on the cycle of course
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
There are a few things to bear in mind with statements like these. The first is that it is entirely possible the people who successfully recovered using only that supplement would have recovered without it. Some people just do. It depends almost entirely on their physiology, age, type of cycle and it's duration etc.

Secondly is that it is also possible they used a SERM and didn't declare it. The Internet is a strange place were claims made by people may never be truly verified. It wouldn't be like it was the first time someone lied on the Internet lol.

Lastly, it did actually improve their values and works exactly as claimed.

Here's my primary issue though - why risk it? The HPTA is no joke and you are gambling a lot by not using a SERM during PCT. If anything, using OTC supplements is something to use in conjunction with a SERM but never as a replacement. You literally have your health riding on the line.

In my mind it is akin to saying a supplement will cure cancer, diabetes or cancer. You are literally playing with fire when you recommend people anything other than the tried and true, especially as it isn't your health personally on the line.

Depends on the cycle of course
Whoa. This post is a work of art. You have blown my mind like 4-5 times in one post.

So, wait - people lie on the internet? Whhaaaa?

But, let's skip to the end ...so, are you saying you don't recommend others use coconut oil to cure their cancer???

In all seriousness ...this post said everything I was thinking and then some.

Why is it so hard to come out with an OTC PTC that is as effective as a pharma version?

Well, why is it so hard to come out with an OTC cancer treatment that rivals pharma versions?
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
There are a few things to bear in mind with statements like these. The first is that it is entirely possible the people who successfully recovered using only that supplement would have recovered without it. Some people just do. It depends almost entirely on their physiology, age, type of cycle and it's duration etc.

Secondly is that it is also possible they used a SERM and didn't declare it. The Internet is a strange place were claims made by people may never be truly verified. It wouldn't be like it was the first time someone lied on the Internet lol.

Lastly, it did actually improve their values and works exactly as claimed.

Here's my primary issue though - why risk it? The HPTA is no joke and you are gambling a lot by not using a SERM during PCT. If anything, using OTC supplements is something to use in conjunction with a SERM but never as a replacement. You literally have your health riding on the line.

In my mind it is akin to saying a supplement will cure cancer, diabetes or cancer. You are literally playing with fire when you recommend people anything other than the tried and true, especially as it isn't your health personally on the line.

Depends on the cycle of course
Whoa. This post is a work of art. You have blown my mind like 4-5 times in one post.

So, wait - people lie on the internet? Whhaaaa?

But, let's skip to the end ...so, are you saying you don't recommend others use coconut oil to cure their cancer???

In all seriousness ...this post said everything I was thinking and then some.

Why is it so hard to come out with an OTC PTC that is as effective as a pharma version?

Well, why is it so hard to come out with an OTC cancer treatment that rivals pharma versions?
 

bigsmall

Banned
Awards
0
There are a few things to bear in mind with statements like these. The first is that it is entirely possible the people who successfully recovered using only that supplement would have recovered without it. Some people just do. It depends almost entirely on their physiology, age, type of cycle and it's duration etc.

Secondly is that it is also possible they used a SERM and didn't declare it. The Internet is a strange place were claims made by people may never be truly verified. It wouldn't be like it was the first time someone lied on the Internet lol.

Lastly, it did actually improve their values and works exactly as claimed.

Here's my primary issue though - why risk it? The HPTA is no joke and you are gambling a lot by not using a SERM during PCT. If anything, using OTC supplements is something to use in conjunction with a SERM but never as a replacement. You literally have your health riding on the line.

In my mind it is akin to saying a supplement will cure cancer, diabetes or cancer. You are literally playing with fire when you recommend people anything other than the tried and true, especially as it isn't your health personally on the line.

Depends on the cycle of course
I guess this means rebirth does not work as well or even close to a pharma SERM? The internet is a strange place - do you have proof of this lol?
 
Jiigzz

Jiigzz

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • First Up Vote
I guess this means rebirth does not work as well or even close to a pharma SERM? The internet is a strange place - do you have proof of this lol?
Do I have proof of what?
 
Jiigzz

Jiigzz

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • First Up Vote
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
That it does not work?
Well, if we are going to assume things work unless proven otherwise then you don't need pharmaceuticals at all.
 

Redemption198

New member
Awards
0
First post after years of just reading, but this is something I have also been wondering about.

When it comes to PCT most people play it safe and you can't blame them for that but that means we never actually find out what is or isn't necessary, and there aren't many people willing to be Guinea Pigs.

The over the counter market is aimed at people who buy everything from the same supplement store, and find the idea of buying pharmaceutical stuff online scary.
 
Last edited:
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
6
  • Best Answer
  • The BigT Award
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
Well, if we are going to assume things work unless proven otherwise then you don't need pharmaceuticals at all.
I beg to differ....in this case many pharmaceuticals may be required, lol.
 
Nac

Nac

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
When it comes to PCT most people play it safe and you can't blame them for that but that means we never actually find out what is or isn't necessary, and there aren't many people willing to be Guinea Pigs.
Studies are platforms for sharing and analysing objective, measurable data.

Forums are platforms for sharing emotionally based self-assessments.

Largely.
 
bell1986

bell1986

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
First post after years of just reading, but this is something I have also been wondering about.

When it comes to PCT most people play it safe and you can't blame them for that but that means we never actually find out what is or isn't necessary, and there aren't many people willing to be Guinea Pigs.

The over the counter market is aimed at people who buy everything from the same supplement store, and find the idea of buying pharmaceutical stuff online scary.
Why would you Guinea Pig though? So when Gyno arises and your left with a lump your gonna say well atleast i tested it and its no good?

As i says above.. Estrogen can create havoc in your body.. Apart from Gyno... You can get very bad acne. Which could leave marks & scars. You can feel very moody and in a bad state a mind with high Estrogen (Also happens if you crash estrogen also) you can get fat distribution on places not usually stored as much by men. You can retain a ton of water and look awful... Alot of this is reversible though and is temporary but its just not worth it. If a company is more than confident with a product then they could have a few people do before and after blood results. Costs would be a minimum and if results come back as good Pharma aromatise inhibitors then i reckon thier sales would pick up and out weigh the testing costs by alot.

One that seems to still make the rounds and has been proven so much to not affect estrogen is.. Arimistane. I still see posts of guys saying *It has dried me out* my joints hurt so Estrogen must be low... I have perosnally seen before and after bloodwork and nothing. Thier estrogen was actually higher than the previous test.

If you want to play it safe then Arimidex will only reduce 65-70% of the estrogen.. You can still crash it on this though but 0.25mg every 2nd day will be a safe option and keep estrogen steady.. Aromasin can crash estrogen fairly quickly but again you just have to keep your dose at a respected amount. We still need estrogen in our bodys (Males) but in low amounts. I have personally used Arimidex and had bloodwork and it was in a very healthy range.. One thing to add in though is.. If you do use Arimidex and just quickly stop you will rebound a huge amount of estrogen which alot of people get caught out by. It only binds to the receptor and stops it being released. Aromasin on the other hand binds to the receptor and competely switches it off (Suicide inhibitor). Each have thier own side effects aswell so you have to keep that in mind. Thier very minor if any if used at the correct dosage's.


So just dont guinea pig yourself.. Respect your body and it will respect you. You dont want to run into any issues.

Thanks
 

EricMM

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Novedex XT was very effective (old and new). 6-OXO was too. i am not too impressed with 3,5-diene products but they have data behind them.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
6
  • Best Answer
  • The BigT Award
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
Novedex XT was very effective (old and new). 6-OXO was too. i am not too impressed with 3,5-diene products but they have data behind them.
the data around 6-oxo showed it was more effective at increasing test than reducing estrogen...6-oxo advanced was more effective at both, but the price was a killer!!!
 

bigsmall

Banned
Awards
0
That's not how proof works, lol. The onus is on you to back your claim, not on me to disprove it.
Well I am not gonna perform a pharmaceutical test to supply you data Jizz. I do remember that a number of folks used it successfully and supplied bloods. But those threads or opinions would not matter cause its from the internet, right.
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Well I am not gonna perform a pharmaceutical test to supply you data Jizz. I do remember that a number of folks used it successfully and supplied bloods. But those threads or opinions would not matter cause its from the internet, right.
You can't even be half serious with this, right?

Blood tests don't even begin to confirm things. They are, at best, an arrow pointing in a direction. A clue. But far from proof or confirmation of anything.

You would need a statistically significant number of people coming off of steroids, etc. to take the drug and give half a placebo (which is risky in itself) and half the "supplement" and see if the numbers in both groups show any statistically significant differences. And that's just to see if it MAY work.

You'd have to be able to reproduce these differences.

You'd have to also study safety and that would mean more studies.

I mean, do you even have the budget to buy enough Viron or Novadex XT or whatever you want to test for 50-100 people for a month? How about for multiple studies? Oh, and don't forget you have to source the product and also confirm it is what it is supposed to be with a chemical analysis and pay doctors and scientists and for blood work. Just for a small study you'd be talking hundreds of thousands at least.

So, of course supplement companies don't do any of that. So the question is, why would you trust something that some random blood work suggests may have an impact when you can just use a SERM?

So, yeah, it falls on someone making a claim to prove it works. If you want to believe something works without proof, you are free to do so. You can believe that crushed almonds and salt will cure cancer if you like.

How about putting it like this:

You have low testosterone from using anabolic androgens. I have two products you can try to fix it:

Product A has 35 peer reviewed, double-blind, randomized studies of high quality and $500M behind its development. 30 of those 35 studies suggest the chemical will take even the most dramatic cases of low testosterone and bring them back to normal.

Product B has 0 studies, $50,000 in production costs, and 10 people on the internet who posted blood work. Just to give it the benefit of the doubt let's say 9 out of 10 of those people had normal blood tests after their run (in all likelihood it would be less than 9). Of course, there is no placebo group so we don't know if those people would have rebounded anyway, because we lack stats.

So, now you come to me and say you have low T and I give you those two options. Even if Product A will cost you 4X as much, which would you choose?
 
NoAddedHmones

NoAddedHmones

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Well I am not gonna perform a pharmaceutical test to supply you data Jizz. I do remember that a number of folks used it successfully and supplied bloods. But those threads or opinions would not matter cause its from the internet, right.
I remember a whole lot of claims people recovered well..and one guy who actually did pre and post bloods after an ostarine only cycle still wasn’t at pre cycle total T after 8 weeks on the pct product... but yeah it was successful
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
I remember a whole lot of claims people recovered well..and one guy who actually did pre and post bloods after an ostarine only cycle still wasn’t at pre cycle total T after 8 weeks on the pct product... but yeah it was successful
I'd call that a major success. For the supplement company.
 

bigsmall

Banned
Awards
0
I remember a whole lot of claims people recovered well..and one guy who actually did pre and post bloods after an ostarine only cycle still wasn’t at pre cycle total T after 8 weeks on the pct product... but yeah it was successful
I also remember guys using very strong compounds that recovered - none of which were sponsored. Why would a whole bunch of people on tghe Anabolics forum claim they recovered when they did not? Its a rhetorical question - you guys already have your minds made up.
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
I also remember guys using very strong compounds that recovered - none of which were sponsored. Why would a whole bunch of people on tghe Anabolics forum claim they recovered when they did not? Its a rhetorical question - you guys already have your minds made up.
Um, no - you just aren't getting it. You do realize that less than 20 years ago even, nobody really made a big deal about PCT. Lots of people used and didn't do ANYTHING afterward and just happened to recover too. It doesn't mean it is a smart way to go about it.

That's like putting a bullet in a revolver, closing the chamber, putting the barrel to your temple and and pulling the trigger and then claiming, self inflicted gun shot wounds don't kill people.
 
unitas27

unitas27

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Um, no - you just aren't getting it. You do realize that less than 20 years ago even, nobody really made a big deal about PCT. Lots of people used and didn't do ANYTHING afterward and just happened to recover too. It doesn't mean it is a smart way to go about it.

That's like putting a bullet in a revolver, closing the chamber, putting the barrel to your temple and and pulling the trigger and then claiming, self inflicted gun shot wounds don't kill people.
Well said, sir. Well said. Sadly many people believe these herbal products are a reliable replacement for pharma chems and that can be a dangerous game. Could they be? Sure. But... proper medical research studies need to be done.
 
Jiigzz

Jiigzz

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • First Up Vote
Well I am not gonna perform a pharmaceutical test to supply you data Jizz. I do remember that a number of folks used it successfully and supplied bloods. But those threads or opinions would not matter cause its from the internet, right.
No need to take it personal, but how can you reasonably expect me to disprove something that hasn't been proven in the first place?

That doesn't make sense to me. The burden of proof always lies on the person making the claim
 

bigsmall

Banned
Awards
0
Um, no - you just aren't getting it. You do realize that less than 20 years ago even, nobody really made a big deal about PCT. Lots of people used and didn't do ANYTHING afterward and just happened to recover too. It doesn't mean it is a smart way to go about it.

That's like putting a bullet in a revolver, closing the chamber, putting the barrel to your temple and and pulling the trigger and then claiming, self inflicted gun shot wounds don't kill people.
Even without pharma grade testing, did you ever consider the fact that it (well anything for that matter) may actually work?
 

Similar threads


Top