A Stupid F***** Question....But?

Mr.Burns

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This will probably be one of the most uninformed and ridiculous questions I’ll ever ask for the rest of my life but, is it possible for natural anabolic supplements to cause damage to the endocrine system with continual long term usage?

The absolute only reason I ask is because I was talking to a buddy at work, a former Navy Medic, about various anabolic supplements and he commented that while they are natural and won’t produce any sides now, in the long run they can permanently damage the endocrine system.

Wait....what??? I call bulls**t!!
 
mrhappyoz

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This will probably be one of the most uninformed and ridiculous questions I’ll ever ask for the rest of my life but, is it possible for natural anabolic supplements to cause damage to the endocrine system with continual long term usage?

The absolute only reason I ask is because I was talking to a buddy at work, a former Navy Medic, about various anabolic supplements and he commented that while they are natural and won’t produce any sides now, in the long run they can permanently damage the endocrine system.

Wait....what??? I call bulls**t!!
Define “natural anabolic supplements”.

Apart from testosterone-related strategies, your primary ones are high doses of protein and carbs.
 
Mr.Burns

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Any supplements that contain plant based extracts formulated to increase anabolism.
 
Jiigzz

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It depends. On the endocrine system most likely not. Most anabolics work by amplifying the production process as opposed to simply replicating the hormone which down regulates production through the feedback loop.

So while I doubt any will have much long term consequence, it all depends on what ingredient you are referring to and whether it is truly an extract or not.

Toxicity on the other hand...
 
Mr.Burns

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Exactly. OP, more details please. What substances are you researching?

The various T boosters are unlikely to cause tolerance, but you’re always recommended to have a wash-out period every now and again. :)
Test1fy and Viron are a couple I’ve been looking at recently. Right now, personally, I’m on a Follidrone+Vector+ABE run.
 
HIT4ME

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Well - the key is "continual long term use". Even some foods can have an effect on your endocrine system if you eat them continuously for long periods of time.

Just being natural doesn't mean much. Nothing is more natural than death. Poison ivy is natural, but I wouldn't eat it.

If you use it for 4-8 weeks and then go off for an equal amount of time, I would think it unlikely for most "natural" substances to have a long term impact on your endocrine system, but it's not totally unheard of. That's why you cycle things.
 
Mr.Burns

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It depends. On the endocrine system most likely not. Most anabolics work by amplifying the production process as opposed to simply replicating the hormone which down regulates production through the feedback loop.

So while I doubt any will have much long term consequence, it all depends on what ingredient you are referring to and whether it is truly an extract or not.

Toxicity on the other hand...
Toxicity? Hepatoxicity specifically? Is liver support important for natural cycles? I apologize for my idiocy.
 
Jiigzz

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Toxicity? Hepatoxicity specifically? Is liver support important for natural cycles? I apologize for my idiocy.
Some compounds have potential for toxicity of taken in excess. On the whole and taken at reasonable and recommended dosages you won't have issue.

I just avoid certain compounds, like NMDA etc
 
johnnyp

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i've read about ashwagandha having a potential effect on T4 but thats about it
 
bonbon

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Fadogia supposedly works similarly to hcg and with hcg you can definitely do some serious damage if you don't know what you're doing. Dunno if it's a real threat, but I would be cautious to run fadogia for extended periods, maybe 4 weeks max.
 

bb333

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Yours is not a stupid question! The problem is understanding how much time we are talking about "long term", 1 month? 6 months? 1 years? 5 years? 10 years? ... here, in my opinion not even the experts in the field could give you a certain answer. This is why we always recommend the "cycling" of these products (example: 2 months of cycle + 1 month of stop). But even so (in my opinion) you are not sure, 100% sure. I still have to understand whether to "create" these "products that we all consume here", behind there are experts in the field, as doctors and company. I rely only on God when I take these things, with my own responsibility of course.
 
LeanEngineer

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Well - the key is "continual long term use". Even some foods can have an effect on your endocrine system if you eat them continuously for long periods of time.

Just being natural doesn't mean much. Nothing is more natural than death. Poison ivy is natural, but I wouldn't eat it.

If you use it for 4-8 weeks and then go off for an equal amount of time, I would think it unlikely for most "natural" substances to have a long term impact on your endocrine system, but it's not totally unheard of. That's why you cycle things.
I agree with this. But I think if you're following the general rule of taking some time off after each natural anabolic run then I think you will be fine.
 
Mr.Burns

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You gentlemen know your s**t!
Ok, so how about using an aromatase inhibitor while on and then off a “natural” cycle? I’m probably wrong here, but don’t enhanced guys run AI pretty much year round? I’m not talking about androsta-3, 5-diene-7, 17-dione. I’m thinking more along the lines of natural plant extract based AI’s.
I could get more specific but there are a ton out there. Everyone has said, “cycle everything” which seems to be the only intelligent method to reduce or prevent entirely any possible damage from anything. At this point I’m just being curious. ;)
 
HIT4ME

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Your body is incredible at dealing with many things. I actually think periods of "flux" are what keep us healthy. Not just with things like steroids - but with life and food in general. Sometimes the world gives us carbs, sometimes it gives us fats, sometimes we get nothing. Our body is designed for this. Part of the issue is that we have become so good at stabilizing life - if we wanted to eat 500 calories from sugar every day, it would be easy to acquire. We have eliminated these changes from daily living. One of the biggest things you see in people with "metabolic syndrome" is a loss of metabolic flexibility, for instance. I know this isn't exactly what you're asking, but it's an idea that I think is tangential to your question.

What are your real goals? There aren't many people on here who will be running most anabolics year round anyway. Even natural versions. First off, they don't give steroid-like gains and many are very expensive for the returns you get (not all). The real progress from running effective dieting and training year-round (although - effective here has 'breaks' built in).

There are lots of people who run steroids year round. Some of them may see very minor sides, if any at all. That doesn't make it a good idea for every situation and person though.

One thing to keep in mind is that your body often has multiple ways of achieving a goal. It isn't always just one pathway to get from point a to point b. If you shut one down for long enough, your body will upregulate another pathway to compensate. This gets back to my first paragraph - we are designed to survive in changing situations.
 
brundel

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This will probably be one of the most uninformed and ridiculous questions I’ll ever ask for the rest of my life but, is it possible for natural anabolic supplements to cause damage to the endocrine system with continual long term usage?

The absolute only reason I ask is because I was talking to a buddy at work, a former Navy Medic, about various anabolic supplements and he commented that while they are natural and won’t produce any sides now, in the long run they can permanently damage the endocrine system.

Wait....what??? I call bulls**t!!
The term "natural anabolic" is very loosely used these days, and, the question is tough to answer generally because not all things are = right.
So some things like epicatechin, ecklonia cava, eriobotrya J for example do not negatively impact your HPTA and dont suppress any hormones. IN addition they have a host of health benefits and as such long term use would appear to be safe. Follidrone 2.0 for example many people take year round.
There are natural substances, however, that should be used short term or cycled. Aromatase inhibitors for example should be cycled unless you are on HRT and require estrogen management and some would argue that test boosters should be used in cycles depending on their MOA.
But, a huge part of why some of these new products are so great is they dont require cycling. Follidrone doesnt, Vector doesnt. And as of now Vector is the strongest natural anabolic I am aware of.
 

Rockzilla

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Were only talking herbal extracts right? Like anything in Ergonine I wouldn’t cycle, ZMA, Beta Alanine, Citruline, Agmatine, Al Car, I wouldn’t cycle. I would take a break off stims, caffeine and yohimbe. Unless I’m missing something the only nonplant derived, performance enhancing thing suggested to be cycled would be ArA?
 
cheftepesh1

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There is always a chance of it making some changes or disrupting something in your systems. I would pace and make sure that your taking breaks to be sure.
 

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