Bulbine Natalensis

  1. Bulbine Natalensis


    First post ever in any fora. Just a heads up. I'm not native english speaking, so grammer is not great.

    I read enough of daily update supplement posts on other sites to know, that most poster prematurely end their updates somehow. So I'll be writing, when I feel like it. Il'l keep it simple.

    I'm on week 6 of my 8 week training program - week 9 is detraining week - same intensity but only 1 set of each exercise.
    Program:
    Mon: Chest, abs and neck
    Tue: Back and forearms
    Wed: Shoulder and abs
    Thur: Legs and neck
    Fri: Arms, abs and forearms

    Diet: intermittent fasting + LCHF - breaking the fast around 1600 with post workout shake, eating at 1800, 5 eggs 2300.

    Only variable is adding bulbine and animal test - so I't might be hard knowing which gives effect (if it happens).

    Week 6: 750 mg bulbine + animal test 1 hour pre-workout
    Week 7: 1500 mg bulbine + animal test 1 hour pre-workout
    Week 8: 2250 mg bulbine + animal test 1 hour pre-workout

    Gonna do measurements tomorrow, so I have a startup measurement - and thereafter every week and at the end.

    First day today: Chest only
    Extreme pump and vascularity - vascularity is not my thing normally - I just dont get vascular that much, so that was a nice thing to notice.
    First exercise: Increased dumbbell presses. Last monday I did 38 kg 3 rep on first set, today I did 38 kg 5 rep - what an improvement, if that was due to the supplements. The second and third set was greater too, so no extreme set to set fatigue.
    The other exercises went a bit up as they normally do each week, so nothing noticeable there.
    Conclusion First day:
    1. Extreme pump
    2. Extra vascularity
    3. Only first exercise but all 3 sets had great improvement


  2. How much do you weigh? Too much Bulbine could have the opposite effect. Also a chance it puts a little strain on the liver but really no need for concern. If you are Liver Assist XT or Tudca would help. Iíve noticed a nice libido boost in the past from Bulbine but never really any in gym benefits. I usually do 4 weeks on, 2 off. Enjoy! Maybe consider adding another natural anabolic if your goal is strength and lean mass. X gels is a popular option, as well as MassMaxXT, Follidrone 2.0, Massacre, Epilogue.
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  3. Yeah I also read, that in rats, to high a dose of Bulbine Natalensis could have the opposite effect. The dosing seems, in rats, to have a inverse U relationship to testosterone, a sem linear downwards relationship to estrogen. In the rat studies, an extract 10:1 was used, where 50 mg/kg where the dose with the highest testosterone level measured.
    I am not using an extract, but using the whole powder. So dose should be on the minimum side of things based on body surface conversion (RAT to Human), and based on Im not using the extract. But who is to say the extract is more potent (u lose somethings when doing extracts) - would be nice to see human studies, or atleast rat studies with pure powder (no extract).
    Thanks for the recommendation for liver assist etc. I have Inositol powder, Choline powder and Liv-52 if it becomes an issue.

    I weigh around 80 kg. At the end of this Bulbine log, I will probably upload my stats, training log, circumference, bodyfat etc.

    My goal is to get stronger, with added benefit of hypertrophy and maybe a bit leaning out. I have no idea, if the Bulbine will boost that, but Im curious though.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by ATZfazer View Post
    Yeah I also read, that in rats, to high a dose of Bulbine Natalensis could have the opposite effect. The dosing seems, in rats, to have a inverse U relationship to testosterone, a sem linear downwards relationship to estrogen. In the rat studies, an extract 10:1 was used, where 50 mg/kg where the dose with the highest testosterone level measured.
    I am not using an extract, but using the whole powder. So dose should be on the minimum side of things based on body surface conversion (RAT to Human), and based on Im not using the extract. But who is to say the extract is more potent (u lose somethings when doing extracts) - would be nice to see human studies, or atleast rat studies with pure powder (no extract).
    Thanks for the recommendation for liver assist etc. I have Inositol powder, Choline powder and Liv-52 if it becomes an issue.

    I weigh around 80 kg. At the end of this Bulbine log, I will probably upload my stats, training log, circumference, bodyfat etc.

    My goal is to get stronger, with added benefit of hypertrophy and maybe a bit leaning out. I have no idea, if the Bulbine will boost that, but Im curious though.
    I stacked bulbine with m-test and saw decent results[in bedroom and gym]. both were from SNS a brand I trust!!!
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  5. I've never heard of someone running over 700mg with any more success than 700mg.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post
    I've never heard of someone running over 700mg with any more success than 700mg.
    Same.. this isn't the type of ingredient where more is better IMO.
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative

  7. Noted thank you - This is a test for 3 weeks before a detraining break. Depending on results, sides, body response/reaction etc. I will decide the dosing for the upcoming 8 week period. That will be the real test
    Glad to hear, that other people had success with Bulbine, thats promising - and Ill take a bit of placebo effects anytime☺ my tablets are 750 mg, but of course it is possible to split them in half, if needed.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by ATZfazer View Post
    Noted thank you - This is a test for 3 weeks before a detraining break. Depending on results, sides, body response/reaction etc. I will decide the dosing for the upcoming 8 week period. That will be the real test
    Glad to hear, that other people had success with Bulbine, thats promising - and Ill take a bit of placebo effects anytime☺ my tablets are 750 mg, but of course it is possible to split them in half, if needed.
    Sounds good. Enjoy your run!
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    Cyber Monday Deals Here! http://anabolicminds.com/forum/serious-nutrition-solutions/298482-summary-list-sns.html#post5897056

  9. Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post
    I've never heard of someone running over 700mg with any more success than 700mg.
    I'm under 200lbs and I've had good results from just 350 mg and I always use it for 6 weeks
    taking a break for at least 4 or more weeks. The next time I run it I'm going to experiment and
    dose 2 caps on Mon Wed and Fri and 1 cap on the other 4 days and see how that goes.
    SNS Cissus XT and Bulbine are two of my favorite of many SNS supps that I use.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by totalpackage View Post
    I'm under 200lbs and I've had good results from just 350 mg and I always use it for 6 weeks
    taking a break for at least 4 or more weeks. The next time I run it I'm going to experiment and
    dose 2 caps on Mon Wed and Fri and 1 cap on the other 4 days and see how that goes.
    SNS Cissus XT and Bulbine are two of my favorite of many SNS supps that I use.
    At 1 cap a day SNS Bulbine is even more of a steal!
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    Cyber Monday Deals Here! http://anabolicminds.com/forum/serious-nutrition-solutions/298482-summary-list-sns.html#post5897056

  11. Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post
    At 1 cap a day SNS Bulbine is even more of a steal!
    it is the brand I have and will continue to use/buy!!!
    ICONIC FORMULATIONS REPRESENTATIVE

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  12. Quick update:
    1. Strength increased a lot
    2. A bit of unclean skin
    3. Post training fatigue non existent - dont feel like going home from gym
    4. Libido increased slighly
    5. Great pumps
    6. Hungry like a ****
    7. A bit more confrontational personality
    8. A bit of pain in left collarbone (old injury)

  13. Quote Originally Posted by ATZfazer View Post
    Quick update:
    1. Strength increased a lot
    2. A bit of unclean skin
    3. Post training fatigue non existent - dont feel like going home from gym
    4. Libido increased slighly
    5. Great pumps
    6. Hungry like a ****
    7. A bit more confrontational personality
    8. A bit of pain in left collarbone (old injury)
    SNS branded?

  14. Isnt this thing like really bad for the liver and kidneys ?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by HAMinTheTrap View Post
    Isnt this thing like really bad for the liver and kidneys ?
    Im not sure I remember correctly, but I recall one study showing 2 % elevated liver enzymes (cannot recall which enzyme) in rats after some weeks of usage. But remember, increased liver enzymes can mean many things, and definetely not always an indicater of a toxic substance. More often it is an indicater of the amount of work, the liver does.
    As of yet, i have not noticed any worrying effects

  16. Quote Originally Posted by ATZfazer View Post
    Im not sure I remember correctly, but I recall one study showing 2 % elevated liver enzymes (cannot recall which enzyme) in rats after some weeks of usage. But remember, increased liver enzymes can mean many things, and definetely not always an indicater of a toxic substance. More often it is an indicater of the amount of work, the liver does.
    As of yet, i have not noticed any worrying effects
    are you talking about this?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19735182

    Also, this from examine:

    a) "in rat studies, it appears to both be quite potent in increasing testosterone but also appears to damage organ function in a similar manner to a steroid cycle."

    b) "That being said, adverse effects have been reported on both the liver and kidneys with the exact same dosages seen to increase testosterone."

    c)
    "Interactions with Organs

    4.1. Liver
    One toxicology study in rats found that oral ingestion of 25, 50, and 100mg/kg bodyweight was able to alter liver enzymes and induce histological changes that are known to be adverse.[8] The adverse effects on liver enzymes increased dose-dependently and over time.


    4.2. Kidneys
    After ingestion of 25, 50, and 100mg/kg bodyweight Bulbine Natalensis in otherwise healthy rats, histological examination of the kidney's tubules (both proximal and convoluted) noted distortions in the architecture which may be indicative of some toxic effects.[8]"


    Are you implying that the damage isnt significant though by mentioning it being only 2% ?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by HAMinTheTrap View Post
    are you talking about this?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19735182

    Also, this from examine:

    a) "in rat studies, it appears to both be quite potent in increasing testosterone but also appears to damage organ function in a similar manner to a steroid cycle."

    b) "That being said, adverse effects have been reported on both the liver and kidneys with the exact same dosages seen to increase testosterone."

    c)
    "Interactions with Organs

    4.1. Liver
    One toxicology study in rats found that oral ingestion of 25, 50, and 100mg/kg bodyweight was able to alter liver enzymes and induce histological changes that are known to be adverse.[8] The adverse effects on liver enzymes increased dose-dependently and over time.


    4.2. Kidneys
    After ingestion of 25, 50, and 100mg/kg bodyweight Bulbine Natalensis in otherwise healthy rats, histological examination of the kidney's tubules (both proximal and convoluted) noted distortions in the architecture which may be indicative of some toxic effects.[8]"


    Are you implying that the damage isnt significant though by mentioning it being only 2% ?
    In a manner similar to a steroid cycle.....
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  18. I was talking enzyme elevations - I was not aware there were structural alterations in the organs in question, dont know how I missed that, cause remember reading that study - so thanks for pointing it out man.

    Ill continue my protocol for the following reasons, and im quite confident, that my organs will stay healthy - if I was the least bit anxious about sides, i would stop immediately:
    1. Protocol is short - 3 weeks
    2. Im using raw powder tablets and not a 5:1 or 10:1 (study above) = low dose
    3. No sides og warning signs of anything worrying - I feel really great bodywise and mentally
    4. I forgot it while writing number 3 above

    I really appreciate the feedback I get here from u guys thanks.

  19. Quick update day 13.
    Strength is amazing, up not only one rep pr. Exercise but multiple rep on all sets and exercises - even the exercises that have seemed to plateau. Fatigue completely gone, and im on week six going on week seven monday - thats almost the most amazing part, cause my brain works better (no brain fog).
    If u have any questions, just let me know, i might be forgetting some info - but what I write is just what i am noticing.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    In a manner similar to a steroid cycle.....
    ok... but if you are going to use something that has negative effects/sides similar to the real thing... why not just straight jump in the water head first ?

    thats like drinking alcohol free beer brother

  21. Quote Originally Posted by ATZfazer View Post
    I was talking enzyme elevations - I was not aware there were structural alterations in the organs in question, dont know how I missed that, cause remember reading that study - so thanks for pointing it out man.

    Ill continue my protocol for the following reasons, and im quite confident, that my organs will stay healthy - if I was the least bit anxious about sides, i would stop immediately:
    1. Protocol is short - 3 weeks
    2. Im using raw powder tablets and not a 5:1 or 10:1 (study above) = low dose
    3. No sides og warning signs of anything worrying - I feel really great bodywise and mentally
    4. I forgot it while writing number 3 above

    I really appreciate the feedback I get here from u guys thanks.
    Sure man, just something to keep in mind... Like if you use it here and there i think its fine, but i guess it wouldnt be a good idea to use for a PCT, specially if the cycle already had orals in it

    Might wanna look into supporting with some astragalus + NAC and/or tudca just to be on the safer side when using it

  22. Quote Originally Posted by HAMinTheTrap View Post
    ok... but if you are going to use something that has negative effects/sides similar to the real thing... why not just straight jump in the water head first ?

    thats like drinking alcohol free beer brother
    I see your point. My motive for doing this protocol is not for gaining muscles or strength unnaturally fast, cause then I would simply "jump straight in the water head first, and drink a beer on top"

    My motive is simply to test this protocol, observe, report and learn. Have been doing this lots of years, not only with herbs ect. but with food, sleep, behavior, thinking, so that I know exactly what works and not for me, my brain and body. And in this process u learn a lot. I like filtering data, finding correlations and if possible cause and effect. Life is just so fun doing these experiments, and I havent done a herb for many years.
    I got a lot of knowledge doing this, and know many things to avoid comsuming or doing. I hope it makes my motive clear☺
    Btw just because I have the knowledge of what to avoid, does not mean I always am congruent with my knowledge - i still do allnighters, sleep to late, wake up to late, drink milk, drink coffee, eat sugar, eat breakfirst sometimes - but with personal cause and effect knowledge, it is so easy to do it infrequently, and u remove the rationalisation excuse - cause I simply accept the consequences for my choice to drink coffee and deal with the brain fog etc.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by HAMinTheTrap View Post
    Sure man, just something to keep in mind... Like if you use it here and there i think its fine, but i guess it wouldnt be a good idea to use for a PCT, specially if the cycle already had orals in it

    Might wanna look into supporting with some astragalus + NAC and/or tudca just to be on the safer side when using it
    I agree with u on that side effect wise from the studies.but effect wise it seems to be a natural hcg/AI combo, and would be perfect in pct. But I would really be careful, if anybody out there would do this.
    Ill lool into those 3 supps dont have a lot of knowledge on them - thanks a lot

  24. Any updates?

  25. I've ran sns bulbine several times and being a former alcoholic has caused my liver enzymes to be borderline. I get bloods drawn twice a year and have never had increased enzymes due to bulbine.....I've never ran it more than a month at a time, the last being stacked with m-test---very nice stack, btw.
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