PCT V

[Chacheeman]

EPISTANE, PCT V, TESTOGEN HELP A BROTHER OUT

Ok folks,

I apologize in advance for the novel, I just want to make sure I am crossing my Ts and dotting my Is, so please bear with me and read all the way through. Suggestions and critismsms are encouraged and welcomed on this thread. Let's keep this informational and educational. If this needs to be moved to a different location, please notify a mod and have it moved. I am a long time lurker, fairly new member and almost a fist time poster so you will quickly learn that I am still green. And without further ado, ladies and gents, here we go.

Currently running:
20/30/30/50/0/0 of epistane (havoc rpn)

I'm currently entering into week 3.

I'm also running (stacking):
LGD 4033 at 0/10/10/15/15/20
Androtest (4-AD) at 0/0/375/375/375/375

Lots of cycle support

1500 mg niacin ED
9000 mg of fish oil ED
400 MG of garlic Extract ED
800 MG of Sam-E ED
750 MG Milk Thistle ED
6000 MG of Collagen C ED
1 Biotin Tab ED
1 B12 Tab ED
1 B Complex ED
1 5-HTP ED
3 MG of Melatonin ED (might be upping to 12mg)
AI sport nutrition Cycle Support 2.0, 1 scoop ED
LIV 52 12-15 tabs ED
Hydroxycut 2 Caps ED
Oral DHEA 100 MG ED
St. John's Wort 600MG ED
Creatine & BCAA as normal
And some nortroopics as needed

PCT:
Tamox 40/30/20/10/10/0/0
PCT V 0/2/2/2/2/2 (caps)
Testogen 0/0/2/2/4/4/4 (caps)
Bulgarian Tribulous 1250 MG ED

And then run a 20-25 day cycle of IGF-1 LR3 *****IM BL***** 2 weeks after PCT

Stats:
Age:27
Height: 5'8''
Weight: 195 (start of cycle)
Body Fat: 20% (guessing)

TRAINING:
5 DAY FULL BODY SPLIT
CHEST
ARMS
BACK
SHOULDERS
LEGS
FUNCTIONAL/HIIT/CARDIO
REST

DIET:
3000-3300 cal/day
Fasting 1 or 2 days a week
Almost an IIFYM style but closer to just eating clean and absolutely ZERO alcohol (huge for me) or anything else hepatoxic

Goals:
Cut down BF%
Increase Lean body Mass
Ideally cutting down 5% BF and hitting a solid 200 aka 5 lbs of lean mass once pct is completed

History:
Weight trained consistently throughout high school. Graduated at 140 lbs with a 315lb sumo style dead PR 1RM (my favorite exersize) Sr year in high school and 415 my Jr year in college

Bench was always weak PR junior year of college when I weighed 175 lbs was 260 PR 1RM (I'm under that now after time off from the gym but did 225 *1 rep* the other day)

Squat was another weak point for me, my knees tend to point inwards adversely affecting my sloppily thrown together PR 1RM (350lbs) which coincidently was the same time frame when I had my PR for bench press. I prefer leg press in all honesty and had a 1RM at around 1100 lbs if I recall correctly. Day before I started the cycle I loaded 720 onto the leg press and was able to rep it 5 times, could have gone a couple more but my old ball and chain was rushing me so I just stopped there. 2 days ago I loaded 815 and prepped it 5 times again, last rep really pushed myself to get it up. Not sure of the sled weight. But who really cares.

After high school got in lots of trouble and was jailed 3 times within 3 years, my longest stint was 9 months. Trained lots in jail with body weight and makeshift weights. Got out and started training in real gyms again by myself. Ran into this retired marine who was around the same age as me. This is the guy who really pushed me into another realm. He was a lot bigger and stronger than me so I felt pushed for the first time in a long time. He moved to Florida and continued to train and as did I at the University I attended, even took additional weight training courses to brush up on knowledge and form. I took 4 years while in high school and 2 years in college. Then I started a landscaping business. My formal training ended for 3 or so years once I started getting busy. That being said, my long days landscaping have been far more physically demanding than any training I have ever done. In fact I felt I gained so much strength while doing the landscaping gig. I still do it full time but I have been wanting to get back to formal training. I gained strength landscaping but lost hypertrophy and developed a little bit of a beer belly. A few months ago I started training formally again, and as I suspected, I haven't skipped a beat. I'm still strong as he'll, I just don't look it anymore. I've never been able to see my abs no matter where I was in my training so I look forward to that, if I can get my cutting on point. I'm not looking to go crazy and beat my old PRs and hulk out, I couldn't afford to injure myself and not be able to work, especially with a baby on the way. I wanted to start this cycle to see what happens out of curiosity. I have been all natty up until this point and have been burned on some supps trying to score epi and So forth but after trial and error, lots of research and an ish ton of money I know for a fact I have all the real stuff I need. I wanted to try this out before I am a full fledged daddy. I'm a libertarian at heart. And I know lots of guys will flame me for not going with the real deal, but tbt, I don't have the sourcing for real gear. Maybe one day. That being said, if you flood my inbox with offers, I will assume you to be a scammer and more than likely will disregard anything you say in the future. I guess that is a catch 22 for me. If you are wondering, yes I do have everything on hand and even got 2 different brands of nolva just to be safe. Both brands are reputable according to threads I've come across of several forums. And one was crystallized upon arrival (usps delivered in snow conditions).


So far, I have not seen any real results from the Epi, my pumps have been incredible, but I attribute that to the LGD 4033. As previously stated my epistane cycle is literally entering into week 3 as of today, so I'm excited to see what happens this week. I haven't seen crazy gains or strength increases. I have noticed better endurance in training and a lot of great focus and aggression while in the gym. I have had some slight sides. Testicular Atrophy started around the beggining-middle of week 2. I would say im right around 85%-90% full plumpness but there is definitely some shrinkage this far.7 headaches started 3 days ago, nothing major and usually gone within a few minutes. Libido is a little suppressed, which is actually kind of nice. I'm not just going about my day with ***** constantly clouding my mind. That said, I can get it up and keep the wife happy without an issue. Still getting great erections, just not constantly thinking about women's clam... well now that I'm typing about women, I'm kinda getting a semi lol..... dry mouth, is definitely an side I'm witnessing. However it reminds me to stay hydrated and that usually helps with my headaches. Ive also had slight increase in acne. The worst side as of today is hypertension. It was scary high the other day, 178 over 90.... fml, right? So I have been keeping closer tabs on my sodium intake and water intake and upped my greens etc etc. Wife (she is a CNA) has been taking my BP everyday and today I have had the best BP since I was a youngster (128 over 88). Happy about that.

I think I've dialed in my cycle, cycle support and PCT. I did lots and lots and lots of research before pulling the trigger on all of this and wanted this to go as smoothly as possible but I think I'm still a little wet behind the ears, so if you have suggestions please feel free to post. I'd like to keep as much banter off of this thread and want to stick strictly to the point, in case future members are looking to benefit from my wrong doings or take from what you all think I did right. Hate reading posts that end up being pages of personal conversations, if you catch myy drift...

All supps are from VERY reputable sources that all of you would agree are legit and gtg. I say this because, again, I did lots of digging and research on this forum to know where you guys are sourcing, but I'm not pimping so don't ask.

Ok so after I get flamed and suggestions are made... I want to know if you all think I nailed the PCT. I don't want to lose all I have worked for by the end of cycle. More importantly, don't want to fudge my hormones for life.

What results can I expect with my pct plan?

More specific, does anyone have experience with PCT V as an AI? Will this help keep things in check so to speak?

Are my goals realistic with this cycle and PCT?

I'm all ears guys, anything helps.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!


PCT V nutritional info:

Tribulus Terrestris 250mg *
(std. extract)(min. 45% Saponins)
(Aerial Parts & Fruit)
Saw Palmetto Berry Extract 160mg *
(Serenoa Repens)(Fruit)
NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine) 125mg *
Androst 3,5-dien-7, 17-dione 37.5mg *
Alpha Hydroxy Laxogenin 25mg *

Testogen Nutrition Info:
D-Aspartic Acid – 2000 mg
Tribulus Terrestris – 300 mg
Panax Ginseng – 250 mg
Fenugreek – 200 mg
Zinc – 72 mg
Vitamin B6 (56mg), B2(20mg) and B5(12mg)
Selenium – 45.2 mcg
Vitamin D3 – 10mcg

With all the Tribulus I may need to drain the Johnson daily? Boner city???
Jk lol

Day before cycle start

****************************************************

DAY 4 OF CYCLE

****************************************************

DAY 9 OF CYCLE

****************************************************

DAY 14 OF CYCLE

 

[Chacheeman]

Ps sorry for the typos and things that don't make sense. Fat fingers and Samsung auto correct make for an ugly post. Thanks again for making it to the end of my thread

 

[Chacheeman]

I forgot to mention I had naturally occurring gyno from 12 years old. Didn't even have pubes yet. It never cleared up so at 19 I had an insurance cover gyno surgery. It would explain why my nipples/chest looks funny in some pictures. I'd like to avoid gyno at all costs. I know I should be gtg with the epi but I think the Androtest is a wet compound and will aromitize to some extent, so a little worried there.

 

[Cscott622]

30 mg of melatonin!? Id still be asleep yesterday

 

[rgenestr]

has got to mean 3mg lmfao 30 is comatose

 

[Tyler0628]

Not sure i saw an AI in there somewhere ON CYCLe. - Your 4AD will convert to Estrogen,which might lead to gyno flare ups while in the later part of your cycle. - OTC Aromatase Inhibitor will do just fine. - run about 75-100mg/day (Highly recommend BLACKSTONE LABS ERADICATE) - includes a little bit of NAC for liver support as well as the AI. I would run that for the last month of your cycle.

Again, i could be wrong, it was a lot to read.

 

[Joepower]

Again, i could be wrong, it was a lot to read.

Yes it was lol

 

[Chacheeman]

Not sure i saw an AI in there somewhere ON CYCLe. - Your 4AD will convert to Estrogen,which might lead to gyno flare ups while in the later part of your cycle. - OTC Aromatase Inhibitor will do just fine. - run about 75-100mg/day (Highly recommend BLACKSTONE LABS ERADICATE) - includes a little bit of NAC for liver support as well as the AI. I would run that for the last month of your cycle.

Again, i could be wrong, it was a lot to read.

Sorry for the length, I just wanted to get as much info on here so everyone willing to help were able to reference back and see exactly what I am running/doing.

Ok so I see the AI on BSL website. Not bad, so I'll pick that up.

As far as the Igf-1 lr3, would you guys recommend after PCT or during PCT. I found a few threads that guys were using during PCT to maximize chances of keeping gains. The only difference is these guys are running real gear.

Also thinking of running osterine during PCT as well.

Your thoughts?

 

[Chacheeman]

Sorry man, but thanks for checking it out for me. Much appreciated.

 

[Chacheeman]

has got to mean 3mg lmfao 30 is comatose

Yes I did mean 3mg. And also my garlic extract is 4000mg not 400mg. Each dose is 1000mg. I wrote this on my phone so there were def some typos. I thought I caught them all last night with the edits but I still found a few after rereading. Thanks for letting me know. I am going to up to 12 MG though. Having issues with sleep lately.

 

[Chacheeman]

Other than the few remaining typos you pointed out, how does this cycle look?

 

[Tyler0628]

dont purchase it from blackstone. - its expensive as hell. - MANY supp suppliers stock it. When i purchased my 3 bottles from **, i think i padi $40 a bottle instead of $50 off BSL.

prohormones are basically steroids, however, REAL gear will provide much faster results as well as more gains. They swing your test a lot more and are more strenuous on the body in general, thats why you see so many guys running all that cycle support and PCT for months after.

Ill hand it to you, your pretty prepped for the cycle, which is very uncommon nowadays.

You may be OVER doing it on some of the cycle support as well as PCT. - My current cycle i am running is as follows (Just to give you an idea of a standard cycle)

Preface: - I decided to try a new 3-AD supplement @ 30/45/45/45/45/45 as well as add 1andro in @ week 3 in dosage of 100/100/100/100 - Completing a 6 Week Cycle - I chose 6 weeks (yes, i know 1 andro takes roughly 2-4 weeks to kick in) because i Am traveling to Mexico at the end of march, and wanted enough time to run my pct completely before going on spring break.

PH:
3-AD (androst-5-ene-3a 17b-diol) - 30/45/45/45/45/45
1Andro (1-DHEA) - 100/100/100/100 (Might run at 50, but not sure yet)

Cycle Support:
Blackstone Labs Eradicate (Liveer Support + AI) - 1 Andro and 3-AD DO NOT CONVERT TO ESTROGEN, so the AI is because i am paranoid.
Omega-3 Fish Oil
Multi
DAA
Glutamine
Creatine

PCT:
Blackstone Labs PCT V (For the tribbulous natty test booster)- It also contains the ERADICATE in it, so an AI, and liver support.
Nolvadex @ 40/40/40/20
Clomid @ 50/50/25/25
Multivitamins
20+ GRAMS of Glutamine PER DAY
DAA @ 3GRAMS /Day

Basically, Im pretty sure all my bases are covered, assuming i can manage to mitigate the cortisol and not gain fat back. However, that depends on your diet, whether you take an off week, etc.

The point of this response is - you should be good to go. Just make sure all those chemicals and products dont conflict with each other in any way. - Also, liver support will be key.

 

[Chacheeman]

I'm actually going to skip the eradicate because it is almost identical to my pct V which also a BSL product. It is way cheaper from other retailers as well. I'm going to skip stacking it on cycle but will use it in PCT as originally planned. I agree with you in regards to using the 1 And and 3 And so not causing the estrogenic effects with dht conversion. However, I am using the 4 andro for a test base for the epistane. From what I have researched, the 1 Andro and 3 andro are not good for this purpose. I have read some good things about the product but I'm literally just trying to use it to keep T levels up while the epi is suppressing my natty supply. I didn't want to experience the lethargy. But you are definitely right the 4 AD does run the higher risk of negative sides. But I feel like my dosing is moderate. I have witnessed logs where guys are taking double to nearly triple of my dosing. But then again I'm not running it as a stand alone, just a test base. I'll let you guys know how things go and if I start noticing negative sides.

On a side note. Thanks for everyone getting back to me. I was considering trying to bump my own thread but didn't know if I would be breaking forum Etiquette by doing so.


Furthermore, what should I expect to experience in PCT? Do you get depressed or Moody? I feel great these days. I have slightly elevated well being, bit nothing over the top.

 

[Chacheeman]

On a side note, between supplementing and dieting, I feel like I'm losing weight around the waist. Thank God. But feel like I'm losing weight and not gaining too much in body mass... I'm hoping things change up this week.

I have also experienced slight blurred vision. But only after yawning or stretching and reopening my eyes. It lasts for a few seconds or so then I return to normal vision.

 

[Tyler0628]

everyone experiences PH / AAS and PCT differently. - Keep a close eye on your hormones and adjust dosages accordingly. I know thats a vague answer. Also, make sure you control the spike in cortisol after your cycle. - That will KILL gains.

 

[Tyler0628]

On a side note, between supplementing and dieting, I feel like I'm losing weight around the waist. Thank God. But feel like I'm losing weight and not gaining too much in body mass... I'm hoping things change up this week.

you mentioned you were 3 week in? - You should start seeing some progress in the upcoming weeks. - If you are feeling lethargic, EAT MORE. - Lethargy basically means its working, but your body isnt keeping up.

 

[210LBS]

Why didn't you run your 4-ad directly over your epistane? Your SERM doesn't need to be 5 weeks and doesn't need to be dosed so high. 20/20/10/10 should do.

 

[Chacheeman]

Hey thanks for the reply. I just wanted to combat lethargy and did not want to run it with the full cycle just towards the end. My dad and brothers are all shiny bald up top so I guess it was out of sheets Paranoia lol

Ij was thinking that about my sarm as well. I have a feeling lots of guys over do it with tamox dosing and was really planning on playing the last bit of pct by ear

 

[warbird01]

Mother of god that is a lot of supports. Why not use something like Cycle Assist/TUDCA for simplicity? Looks like you definitely put a lot of thought into this cycle though.

I would add in Reduce XT during week 3 of PCT for cortisol control. Looks good though.

 

[Chacheeman]

Ok guys,
I'm at 50mg ED right now of the epi. I extended the cycle by a week since I didn't feel anything crazy until week 4. And crazy is a little over the top. I was benching when I finally felt on and just noticed the weights felt lighter. It was cool but after being natty for so long I kind of felt guilty.

Since then all my lifts have gone up but I have not noticed anything going up.. almost like an on cycle plateau if that makes sense. Im really pushing myself hard while training. But I feel like, for what I'm doing to my body, it would have been stupid to end the cycle the first week I started actually feeling on. My gains haven't been crazy big but they are there for sure and this feels like more of a recomp.

I weighed myself a few days ago and I was finally at 200lbs. Ive been close but have never hit this goal. Before I started I was 194. But after the first two weeks I was down to 189... I was pretty bummed at that. But I was encouraged seeing 200lbs the other day.

I don't think weighing myself everyday isn't really for me. I like to track progress, but becoming obsessed with my weight, may screw with my focus in the gym. So it's only every now and then for me.

I feel like I'm starting to lose weight again but won't weigh myself until next week.. say, Wednesday?

I also started doing a different split. I had a big snow plow event that kept me out working for 20 hours straight so i know my rem sleep amd overall schedule was fudged because of this. So i started training eod This last week so I could start getting back on track. I know aas and ds speed up recovery but rest is still important. As a matter of fact, my doms came back this week. Haven't had them in a while, so maybe because I've been working hard in the gym.

Here is the kicker. I'm considering running one more week at 50mg. I'm definitely starting to feel suppressed tho. I'm quite tired and in all honesty I can't wait to get off of the gear and wrapping up pct. I just feel like I'm ready to feel natty again, but aside from lethargy I'm not really experiencing any sides. If I don't extend by a week, my last day on cycle will be tomorrow. But again... If I am going to put myself through this, I might as well reap the maximum benefits.

Would starting hcg at 250 mcg eod help with Pct? I have it on hand and was thinking of running it for a couple days next week to kick start lh and help ensure an easier pct. I really am reading pct tbh.. What goes up, must come down. I'd be interested in what others have experienced with pct on epi cycles.
Jebrook

I habe read lots of your input on epi logs and it sounds like you may know a thing or two. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance guys!

 

[Chacheeman]

Bump

 

[Jebrook]

Ok guys,
I'm at 50mg ED right now of the epi. I extended the cycle by a week since I didn't feel anything crazy until week 4. And crazy is a little over the top. I was benching when I finally felt on and just noticed the weights felt lighter. It was cool but after being natty for so long I kind of felt guilty.

Since then all my lifts have gone up but I have not noticed anything going up.. almost like an on cycle plateau if that makes sense. Im really pushing myself hard while training. But I feel like, for what I'm doing to my body, it would have been stupid to end the cycle the first week I started actually feeling on. My gains haven't been crazy big but they are there for sure and this feels like more of a recomp.

I weighed myself a few days ago and I was finally at 200lbs. Ive been close but have never hit this goal. Before I started I was 194. But after the first two weeks I was down to 189... I was pretty bummed at that. But I was encouraged seeing 200lbs the other day.

I don't think weighing myself everyday isn't really for me. I like to track progress, but becoming obsessed with my weight, may screw with my focus in the gym. So it's only every now and then for me.

I feel like I'm starting to lose weight again but won't weigh myself until next week.. say, Wednesday?

I also started doing a different split. I had a big snow plow event that kept me out working for 20 hours straight so i know my rem sleep amd overall schedule was fudged because of this. So i started training eod This last week so I could start getting back on track. I know aas and ds speed up recovery but rest is still important. As a matter of fact, my doms came back this week. Haven't had them in a while, so maybe because I've been working hard in the gym.

Here is the kicker. I'm considering running one more week at 50mg. I'm definitely starting to feel suppressed tho. I'm quite tired and in all honesty I can't wait to get off of the gear and wrapping up pct. I just feel like I'm ready to feel natty again, but aside from lethargy I'm not really experiencing any sides. If I don't extend by a week, my last day on cycle will be tomorrow. But again... If I am going to put myself through this, I might as well reap the maximum benefits.

Would starting hcg at 250 mcg eod help with Pct? I have it on hand and was thinking of running it for a couple days next week to kick start lh and help ensure an easier pct. I really am reading pct tbh.. What goes up, must come down. I'd be interested in what others have experienced with pct on epi cycles.
Jebrook

I habe read lots of your input on epi logs and it sounds like you may know a thing or two. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance guys!

I agree with the others that your additional support supps are a little excessive but hey at least it’s better than too little support. It’s too bad you haven’t been using TUDCA as liver support. If you had you probably wouldn’t feel as run down and could extend this run up to 8 weeks. At this point you can probably get away with one more week but I would not push 8. It’s a little odd that you haven’t gained much mass and strength. LGD and Epistane should be a sic combo for bulking and strength. Looking to cut 5% bodyfat is pretty unrealistic with such a short cycle and without a drastic calorie deficit. Gaining 5 lbs is certainly realistic though. Honestly, that combo should add 15+ lbs. You’re either undereating or one or both of your anabolics are underdosed. As far as PCT, your OG plan was perfectly fine. I’m not impressed by the PCT V profile or the Testogen but those coupled with the Nolva will be just fine. And HcG would be overkill for this short of a cycle. Honestly, you’re only missing cortisol support during your PCT. Look into some Sup3r 7 for that possibly.

 

[Jebrook]

I agree with the others that your additional support supps are a little excessive but hey at least it’s better than too little support. It’s too bad you haven’t been using TUDCA as liver support. If you had you probably wouldn’t feel as run down and could extend this run up to 8 weeks. At this point you can probably get away with one more week but I would not push 8. It’s a little odd that you haven’t gained much mass and strength. LGD and Epistane should be a sic combo for bulking and strength. Looking to cut 5% bodyfat is pretty unrealistic with such a short cycle and without a drastic calorie deficit. Gaining 5 lbs is certainly realistic though. Honestly, that combo should add 15+ lbs. You’re either undereating or one or both of your anabolics are underdosed. As far as PCT, your OG plan was perfectly fine. I’m not impressed by the PCT V profile or the Testogen but those coupled with the Nolva will be just fine. And HcG would be overkill for this short of a cycle. Honestly, you’re only missing cortisol support during your PCT. Look into some Sup3r 7 for that possibly.

EDIT: I think I recall you mentioning using Osta for PCT? DO NOT do it. Osta will slow your recovery.

 

[Chacheeman]

EDIT: I think I recall you mentioning using Osta for PCT? DO NOT do it. Osta will slow your recovery.

I read on the bottle that it can be used in PCT. It is Olympus Labs purchased from the same vendor I got my havoc from. So I ASSUMED it to be g2g. But after reading your post I stumbled across some really helpful threads on Costa in PCT.

Here is a great link for anyone looking for solid info on SARMS titled:

Selective androgen receptor modulators in preclinical and clinical development on ncbi

(I can't post links yet)


Indicating suppressive characteristics. Will definitely have to hold on to that for a later cycle.

As far as not getting huge weight gains, I think I have been dropping a lot of bf so I think I need to take into consideration for that. I did a arm measurement 2 weeks ago while I was flat and I was just a hair under 15.5 inches and did another flat measurement the other day. I'm at a solid 16 inches. So I was impressed. I know that is probably really small for most guys here on AM but I know I'm gaining something.

I also decided to run another week. I was hoping to have enough to run another identical cycle in May or June but I guess I can always grab another bottle. On the other hand if I feel super s***ty on pct this may be my first and last cycle so i guess going all in at this point isnt the worst option. If i do give it another run i will definitely supplement the tudca.

Thanks for chiming in man.

 

[warbird01]

Yeah, don't run osta in PCT.

 

[Chacheeman]

10-4 plan on saving for a cut. I have a decent stash box so I will research the best stack I can thunk of for the cutting

 

[Chacheeman]

I think you were also active in another thread I was checking out with the osta in PCT with Yates being another great contributor. Definitely were some great insights in there. If you were, in fact, part of that thread thanks for clearing all the confusion up. I'm definitely looking for a successful pct, it's the part I'm most worried and stressed over. I know it will be tough but I want a smooth transition back to homeostasis so any founded help is appreciated. Not looking to fudge my hpta for good. Thanks man