T3\T4

Jcc7220

Member
Awards
0
Trying to decide what to run... I have never ran thyroid hormone before and I’m concerned about the T3 rebound.... also from what I have heard if you don’t do it rite diet and such, you end up just looking the same just smaller Because of muscle wasting...
I’ll run Mk2866 and Mk677 as well
So I’ve been bouncing back and forth between t3 and t4
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Osta and mk is definitely not enough to hold muscle with t3.

What's the reason behind using T3?
 

Jcc7220

Member
Awards
0
I’m looking to get rid of the fat off my abs, that’s my concern loosing muscle, I’m thinking of trying T4 then. I’m using Yohimbine now and not getting enough out of it
 
Anzview360

Anzview360

New member
Awards
0
Well the funny thing about t3 is that it is a hormone that is secreted by the thyroid gland. T3 regulates your metabolism which taken in excess can cause a rise in heart rate and respiratory rate, fatigue, and weight loss. Now, if you add an exogenous form of t3 that are higher than your thyroids production, it may cause your thyroid to stop producing the hormone. This is why some people taper off, in hopes that it will help their endocrine system to recognize the drop, forcing your thyroid to start production again.
T4 is usually giving to people with hypothyroidism. This is sometimes giving to patients that easily gain weight or hard to maintain weight, among other conditions but for your inquiry we will stick with weight. However, most people in the fitness community tend to look at t3 because of its supposed potency. As with t3, taking an exogenous form of t4 can cause the body to stop producing it’s own.
As far as dieting right. If you don’t diet right to begin with then I would work on that first. No supplement will be beneficial with bad diet. T3 is not something you just want to take for the heck of it. Depending on your goals I would start with maybe the sarms. I say this because once you come of t3 you run the risk of your thyroid not producing at an efficient rate causing weight gain or hypothyroidism. Also, it seems to be popular for one to take t3 in conjunction with Anabolics of some sort.

And yes if you take t3 and do not diet right you may find yourself looking a bit slimmer and less muscular. Or conversely a bit fatter and less muscular. Without proper knowledge on exactly how t3 effects other cells, you are asking for trouble in my opinion.
 
macedog24

macedog24

Board Sponsor
Awards
1
  • Established
I’m looking to get rid of the fat off my abs, that’s my concern loosing muscle, I’m thinking of trying T4 then. I’m using Yohimbine now and not getting enough out of it
You can try ********!!
***link removed***
Apply mace15 for 15% off. Great product. If you need some info on it i can provide it for you.
 

Scottfalcon

Member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Before you go this route I would recommend one of evomuse's topicals.. I've used supernova and it was awesome, I haven't tried their new hypernova yet but it's supposed to be an improved version of supernova and feedback is awesome so far. I was dropping inches off my waist and staying about the same weight with supernova. If you start one of them and it's not quite enough for you, you can always add in clen and apply that topically.. still a better option than t3/t4 in my opinion.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I’m looking to get rid of the fat off my abs, that’s my concern loosing muscle, I’m thinking of trying T4 then. I’m using Yohimbine now and not getting enough out of it
Abs are made in the kitchen
 

BBiceps

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I did the misstake using T3 by itself and lost way too much muscle&strenght and my test levels tanked, I would never use it again without a **** load of test, I did get ripped though...
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Trying to decide what to run... I have never ran thyroid hormone before and I’m concerned about the T3 rebound.... also from what I have heard if you don’t do it rite diet and such, you end up just looking the same just smaller Because of muscle wasting...
I’ll run Mk2866 and Mk677 as well
So I’ve been bouncing back and forth between t3 and t4
I'm gonna go against the grain here. Here's the thing. I'm usually the type of guy to tell you that if something works, it works and too often in the supplement world we give products the pass with, "Well, everyone is different." This is typically bullsh!t and if it works in someone, it should work in everyone, at least to some degree.

Having given that caveat, well, with T3 - it's the one compound I think stands out the most as to different people responding differently to it. Some people SWEAR they lose muscle fast on it. I think this is somewhat blown out of proportion and here's why.

1. Most people assume they carry more muscle than they do. Fat over your muscles can make your muscles look bigger. If you are on T3 and lose fat quickly, you will look much smaller. But you didn't lose muscle, you just lost fat. But it's hard for us to accept this because we all think we should look bigger than we are naturally capable of. Steroids are required to get the look you see on a lot of movie stars even - it's not natural. And if you respond well to T3, this "muscle wasting" fallacy will be more pronounced as you will be burning fat more quickly.

2. You will deplete glycogen while taking T3 and this will, at first, create a rapid drop in strength. When I started taking T3, this was the most pronounced effect I saw - especially at upper doses. I lost a lot of glycogen and the strength and size that went with it. But it wasn't "muscle loss" - it is a temporary effect from depletion. And it was rapid. It is similar to going on an extreme diet, except instead of happening over 1-2 weeks it happens over 2-4 days. Of course most people will freak when this happens, but then it stops and your strength stabilizes and you can actually start to see strength gains again at this lower point, and then once you stop and/or carb up, it comes back fast.

In other words, I think that the need for anabolics on T3 is more perception than reality. If you can mentally get past the fact you are gonna lose some strength for a while and will need to be working at a lower output while on it, you will be fine.

For me, I've taken large doses and barely notice anything. I notice glycogen depletion the most. Fat loss is minimal for me, even at 200 mcg a day - which I would NOT recommend you do without patience and experience. Some people will be hyper responders and won't be able to take 50 mcg without having a rapid heart rate, and I am at the other end of the spectrum where I barely respond.

at 150-200 mcg I noticed my resting heart rate on my fitbit went from 49-52 up to about 62 BPM. I also had a much improved mood and less "depression" - not saying I even have depression, just that I was better able to deal with things and less overwhelmed, improved mood, less moodiness when under stress, etc. I can be pretty dark at times when I'm under stress and I'm not as bad.

As for T3 and T4 - if you're looking for fat loss, just go to T3. Both will shut you down, T3 will have a stronger impact on fat loss. Plus, IMO, the shut down can actually have some benefits as sometimes, during a diet, we don't get proper nutrition 100% and the conversion of T4 to T3 doesn't always go so well...at least in theory, although I don't 100% believe the reverse T3 stuff either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nac

Jcc7220

Member
Awards
0
Hit4Me.... thank you for your response it was very informative... can we talk more about coming off the T3 what’s the rebound like for example (when you come off AAS you only keep some of your gains) will it be that kind of effect,? Or will I go back to were I was?, how do/did you diet when coming off T3 did you go into a caloric deficit or you just continued as usual?
 

dvw

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
You will definitely look flat and lose a little strength. I would increase complex carbs and protien by 10-20 % while on t3. That's what I did and strength and muscle fulness rerurned.
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Hit4Me.... thank you for your response it was very informative... can we talk more about coming off the T3 what’s the rebound like for example (when you come off AAS you only keep some of your gains) will it be that kind of effect,? Or will I go back to were I was?, how do/did you diet when coming off T3 did you go into a caloric deficit or you just continued as usual?
So, this is a little complicated to answer. I'm not a doctor and don't want to screw anyone up. A lot of the evidence I have seen shows that people rebound back to normal levels. It's not instantaneous and will take a couple weeks for sure. For me, since I didn't notice any real loss in weight (granted, I gain weight easy, lose it hard and unless my diet is pretty harsh I don't lose it) - I didn't rebound coming "off" either. It was barely noticable for me, and the science I have seen suggests this likely to be the case.

Also, there is a "theory" about T4 converting to reverse T3. IF (and I stress if) you believe in "starvation mode" and things of that nature, this is likely one of the pathways through which this could occur chemically. Instead of converting T4 to T3, your body converts it to rT3 which is almost inactive and this will, in theory, slow your metabolism. So, coming off of it, you may want to account for this theory, even if it is not 'true' (as I said, I don't believe all of this fully myself, but either the science is lacking and incomplete or my knowledge of it is incomplete...more likely my knowledge).

So, to take this into account and answer your question, I would be reasonable and make sure that as I came off I was in a slight deficit. Nothing too harsh - you don't want to trigger conversion to rT3 as you are gearing up T4 production again. Just something slight enough (200-300 calories?) that your body isn't shocked for a couple weeks. Reverse dieting would be ideal after that I believe.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Check out beast fitness radio podcast, number 16 is about t3/t4.
 
Ari Gold

Ari Gold

Administrator
Staff member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • Best Answer
You can try *******!!
***link removed***
Apply mace15 for 15% off. Great product. If you need some info on it i can provide it for you.
Please tell me you are not openly suggesting human consumption of a research chemical? Sorry, I have to remove that link and product name.
 

Jcc7220

Member
Awards
0
Ok so I haven’t gotten around to taking T3 but I’m wondering how one can reverse being “Flat” while being in a fat burning state. Say what would A person eat or what compound would they add. I know the pros will run T3 into a show, how do they counter this problem?
 

BBiceps

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Ok so I haven’t gotten around to taking T3 but I’m wondering how one can reverse being “Flat” while being in a fat burning state. Say what would A person eat or what compound would they add. I know the pros will run T3 into a show, how do they counter this problem?
Test! It was my biggest mistake when I ran T3 to not take test.
 

Jcc7220

Member
Awards
0
Do you start these supplement together? What is the dosage of this stack?
Mk-677 you need to run for a minimum of 6 months at 25mg’s a day is best, to see results and you won’t truly see them till even after that as the cells need to enlarge.
I’ve been on 3 months and I am very happy with it so far and understanding growth hormone I’m sure I’ll be even more happy when I’m done with it.
I am actually starting Lgd. Today to inflate the new cells I’ve created (I want to try sarms). Then maybe by the summer I’ll run I nice AAS cycle
 

Slims

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
What are the best alternatives to T3/T4 for increasing thyroid output?
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
What are the best alternatives to T3/T4 for increasing thyroid output?
Really nothing. 7-Keto DHEA, b-AET, and Olive Leaf in theory may aid in natural function, but T3 is your best bet for actually achieving elevated T3.
 

BBiceps

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Ok, that makes sense, i thought I was about to get a new theory
I did a cycle of T3 without test and although I got ripped, I felt like ****, lost a lot of muscle and strength and my test levels tanked... it was not worth it.
 
BEAST73

BEAST73

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
I did T2 back in 2016 with great fat loss success!
 

dvw

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Ive used T2 supplement @ 300 mg.I like it as alternative to T3 research chem. I used KSM 66 ashwaganda after in case I had suppressed my natural thyroid output.
 

Jcc7220

Member
Awards
0
Ive used T2 supplement @ 300 mg.I like it as alternative to T3 research chem. I used KSM 66 ashwaganda after in case I had suppressed my natural thyroid output.
Ashwaganda is a test booster isn’t it? That helps with your thyroid?
 

Slims

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Ashwaganda is a test booster isn’t it? That helps with your thyroid?
Ashwagandha doesn't increase testosterone or thyroid output directly. It is an adaptogenic that reduces stress hormones (which suppress both), which in turn helps to normalise testosterone and thyroid levels.
 
BioCorRob

BioCorRob

Board Sponsor
Awards
0
Hmmmm what T2 about? I’m curious
T2 is a thyroid metabolite (iodothyronine) which is not a prescription, but rather a supplement. There is a very well written explanation of it by a doctor here:

https://www.holtorfmed.com/t2-the-lesser-known-thyroid-hormone/

Shameless self-plug - we offer the active (ie. better) version of T2 - 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine - in our THYRO-T2 product. 3,3-diiodo-L-thyronine is a bit less expensive, but also less effective in aiding metabolism and energy per studies.
 

Slims

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
T2 is a thyroid metabolite (iodothyronine) which is not a prescription, but rather a supplement. There is a very well written explanation of it by a doctor here:

https://www.holtorfmed.com/t2-the-lesser-known-thyroid-hormone/

Shameless self-plug - we offer the active (ie. better) version of T2 - 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine - in our THYRO-T2 product. 3,3-diiodo-L-thyronine is a bit less expensive, but also less effective in aiding metabolism and energy per studies.
Is T2 (3,5-diiodo-L-Thyronine) suppressive?
 
BioCorRob

BioCorRob

Board Sponsor
Awards
0
Is T2 (3,5-diiodo-L-Thyronine) suppressive?
It can be suppressive of TSH, but taken as directed in safe dosages you should rebound fine. You can follow up a 3,5 cycle with something like L-Tyrosine or a 7-Keto if you're worried about after effects. We've had multiple loggers here on AM that did not report any after effects that would be attributed to natural suppression.
 

Slims

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
It can be suppressive of TSH, but taken as directed in safe dosages you should rebound fine. You can follow up a 3,5 cycle with something like L-Tyrosine or a 7-Keto if you're worried about after effects.
Would Olive Leaf Extract, Iodine and Orange Peel Extract also be be effective at increasing thyroid/thyroid PCT?
 
BioCorRob

BioCorRob

Board Sponsor
Awards
0
Would Olive Leaf Extract, Iodine and Orange Peel Extract also be be effective at increasing thyroid/thyroid PCT?
There is some evidence to support these for increasing natural thyroid production as well, yes. Many people actually stack T2 with an Iodine supplement and have good results. Typically, at least with our THYRO-T2 product, people are using it alongside a stim-based fat burner to increase fat loss. We obviously never recommend it for anyone with thyroid conditions or currently taking thyroid prescriptions.
 
BEAST73

BEAST73

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
I ran T2 for 6 weeks at 300mg with no side effect.
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
I've run t2 at 1.2 mg with no effects.

I mean mg. I mean effects, not side effects.
 
Distilled Water

Distilled Water

Board Sponsor
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
I’m looking to get rid of the fat off my abs, that’s my concern loosing muscle, I’m thinking of trying T4 then. I’m using Yohimbine now and not getting enough out of it
2-3 SNS thyrocaps/day

SNS Caffeine/Yohimbine HCL Stack before morning cardio

Abdominal fat will be gone in no time and super cost affective.
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Unsafe. I’ve got to recommend anyone reading this to never ever take 1200mcg daily.
I agree. T2 isn't a compound I recommend at all.
 
BioCorRob

BioCorRob

Board Sponsor
Awards
0
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
I am sorry you are confused. Let me back up. What is so unsafe about 1.2 mg of T2? Do you have any data?
 
BioCorRob

BioCorRob

Board Sponsor
Awards
0
I am sorry you are confused. Let me back up. What is so unsafe about 1.2 mg of T2? Do you have any data?
I am sorry you are so reckless. T2 has been shown to suppress TSH levels with dosages as low as 300-400mcg daily extended use. Higher dosages *may* mimick effectivess similar to T3, which is a prescription and requires cycling down to avoid long term problems. I'm done with you and done with this conversation. If you'd like to be reckless with your own body, go for it. But don't suggest that T2 should be used improperly by anyone else here, even though you're saying you don't recommend it at all. To imply that you "safely" took 1.2mg implies that others could as well, and they should not ever, ever do that without a medical professional's approval. It is a HORMONE and should be treated as such.

But I guess a guy that thinks that doing a hit of crack cocaine or heroin every once in a while "won't do much" doesn't think hormones are serious.

Blocking you now and moving on...
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
I am sorry you are so reckless. T2 has been shown to suppress TSH levels with dosages as low as 300-400mcg daily extended use. Higher dosages *may* mimick effectivess similar to T3, which is a prescription and requires cycling down to avoid long term problems. I'm done with you and done with this conversation. If you'd like to be reckless with your own body, go for it. But don't suggest that T2 should be used improperly by anyone else here, even though you're saying you don't recommend it at all. To imply that you "safely" took 1.2mg implies that others could as well, and they should not ever, ever do that without a medical professional's approval. It is a HORMONE and should be treated as such.

But I guess a guy that thinks that doing a hit of crack cocaine or heroin every once in a while "won't do much" doesn't think hormones are serious.

Blocking you now and moving on...
Wait but when you were pushing your product you told someone it may cause suppression? Now it causes suppression at doses below 300 micrograms?

And when did I ever imply that what I did was safe?

Basically using your reasoning and my experience shows that we are dealing with a dangerous substance that manufacturers will not admit to how dangerous it can be when they can sell it, but it has no upside.

So how is it safe that you recommend people use something that has potential suppression at the doses you recommend using but won't even caused any benefit at four times that dose?
 
Top