First Cycle - Chaos & Pain Chemical One and Four - Please advise

mohit

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I’m 36 and this is going to be my first cycle so I have decided to keep it a short one (4 weeks) just to see how my body reacts to it and then maybe at a later stage I'll plan on running a full 8 week cycle. I would like to loose some body fat and put on some muscle.

Planning to run the following
1. Chaos & Pain Chemical One – 2 tablets per day (1 morn & 1 eve 12 hrs apart) 4 weeks
2. Chaos & Pain Chemical Four – 2 tablets per day (1 morn & 1 eve 12 hrs apart) 4 weeks
3. Olympus Labs Ar1macare Pro as On cycle support for 4 weeks

PCT
1. Clomid 50mg for 2 weeks and then 25 mg for 2 weeks
2. Cannibal Alpha PCT as directed for 4 weeks

Guys please help me out if I am missing something especially in the On cycle support area. Initially I was thinking to start with only 1 tablet of Chemical Four just to see how my body reacts.
Please advise me on the timings, when to take Chemical One and Chemical Four and then how long should I wait before taking my on cycle support. Or on cycle support is to be kept on hand and only taken if need be. Please advise

Thanks for your help.
 
Laxarcher13

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Really man I’ve took chem one chem four and X. Biggest waste of money. With all the money you spent you could bought an 8 week supply of dmz.. You won’t have any negative side effects with andros.
 
BloodManor

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Really man I’ve took chem one chem four and X. Biggest waste of money. With all the money you spent you could bought an 8 week supply of dmz.. You won’t have any negative side effects with andros.
You ave already been proven wrong about using these products. You also stated this before it was even released lol pyrobatt

Op it’s a very mild cycle with few sides - but I would run it for 8 weeks since Andros shine weeks 5-8
I have run that stack for 8 weeks and gained 12 lbs while losing 2% bf
For cycle support just make sure to take a good multi, fish oil and that’s all that’s really needed. If you wanted more get a quality cycle support from Olympus labs or other quality companies out there
 

mohit

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Thanks for replying. Yes it is a mild cycle but still please take a look at the couple of questions I posted in the end and help me out. Thanks
 
BloodManor

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Thanks for replying. Yes it is a mild cycle but still please take a look at the couple of questions I posted in the end and help me out. Thanks
Run both bottles as per label I ran them about 10-12 hrs apart
On cycle support should be like I stated I was editing my post lol
 
Laxarcher13

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You ave already been proven wrong about using these products. You also stated this before it was even released lol pyrobatt

Op it’s a very mild cycle with few sides - but I would run it for 8 weeks since Andros shine weeks 5-8
I have run that stack for 8 weeks and gained 12 lbs while losing 2% bf
For cycle support just make sure to take a good multi, fish oil and that’s all that’s really needed. If you wanted more get a quality cycle support from Olympus labs or other quality companies out there
The products were given to me. Going on here without giving them positive reviews seems wrong. I can’t take something that was given to me and than talk poorly of it.
 

mohit

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Run both bottles as per label I ran them about 10-12 hrs apart
On cycle support should be like I stated I was editing my post lol
Will do.... So a 10 minute gap between 1 and 4 andro is ok?
Also I work out around 11 AM so take the pills at 9 AM and the second dose at 9PM
So what time should I take the Olympus Labs Ar1macare Pro morning and evening....please let me know
 
BloodManor

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Will do.... So a 10 minute gap between 1 and 4 andro is ok?
Also I work out around 11 AM so take the pills at 9 AM and the second dose at 9PM
So what time should I take the Olympus Labs Ar1macare Pro morning and evening....please let me know
I took them st the same time and that perfect timing
I did 5 am and pm and worked out at 7 am
Ar2macare pro just follow the label I forget what there dosing is - but thereclabels will never steer you wrong - it’s also a mild cycle so I would just take one dose daily and start 2 weeks pre cycle and 2 weeks post
 

mohit

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I took them st the same time and that perfect timing
I did 5 am and pm and worked out at 7 am
Ar2macare pro just follow the label I forget what there dosing is - but thereclabels will never steer you wrong - it’s also a mild cycle so I would just take one dose daily and start 2 weeks pre cycle and 2 weeks post
Thanks for all your inputs. On the bottle of Ar1macare pro it says take 4 caps twice daily. So please correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying to take 4 caps per day instead of 8 of Ar1macare Pro but start taking it 2 weeks before beginning the cycle and 2 weeks during pct?

Dont you think it will be too much Arimistane as Cannibal Alpha pct also has Arimistane in it?
 

mohit

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Also what time do i take the Ar1macare if i am taking my andros 9 AM and 9PM?
 
iamyourfather

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First Cycle - Chaos & Pain Chemical One and Four - Please advise

and @OP, just a little info for you health - f*ck the liver destroying garbage like DMZ.
Laxarcher13 i couldnt ever sleep well if i would recommend this to anybody. you can do with your body what you want but its a just a joke that you recommend one of the harshest oral STEROID to a guy that clearly wants to experiment a little bit with prohormones (REAL prohormones and not methylated ROIDS!)
 
Whisky

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I’m 36 and this is going to be my first cycle so I have decided to keep it a short one (4 weeks) just to see how my body reacts to it and then maybe at a later stage I'll plan on running a full 8 week cycle. I would like to loose some body fat and put on some muscle.

Planning to run the following
1. Chaos & Pain Chemical One – 2 tablets per day (1 morn & 1 eve 12 hrs apart) 4 weeks
2. Chaos & Pain Chemical Four – 2 tablets per day (1 morn & 1 eve 12 hrs apart) 4 weeks
3. Olympus Labs Ar1macare Pro as On cycle support for 4 weeks

PCT
1. Clomid 50mg for 2 weeks and then 25 mg for 2 weeks
2. Cannibal Alpha PCT as directed for 4 weeks

Guys please help me out if I am missing something especially in the On cycle support area. Initially I was thinking to start with only 1 tablet of Chemical Four just to see how my body reacts.
Please advise me on the timings, when to take Chemical One and Chemical Four and then how long should I wait before taking my on cycle support. Or on cycle support is to be kept on hand and only taken it need be. Please advise

Thanks for your help.
Hey bro, I’m literally just finishing my first cycle of 1-andro, 4-andro and epiandro (last day of pct tomorrow). I’m also 36.

It’s a solid first stack imo.....as long as your training and nutrition is on point. I’m still 7lbs up and leaner than when I started. I also added 30lbs + to my lifetime best squat and deadlift numbers. Minimal sides, very enjoyable.

But

I would suggest running proper doses and 8 weeks. They really only kick in at week 3-4 so imo 4 weeks will be a disappointment (I originally planned to do something similar to you but after reading literally every post on the compounds I’m glad I changed).

I’d aldo suggest you dose at least 3 caps of each per day (330 of the 1 and 225 of the 4 - the 4 is underdosed IMO but would be ok at that and more cost effective).

Your dosing split is spot on. Just spilt the ar1mcare am and pm as above as well.

Pct looks solid. Personally I went 50/25/25/12.5 clomid and recovered fine. Your probably a touch higher than many would suggest (especially for a mild run) but nothing crazy. Would be fine as you’ve laid out.

My cycle log is in the anabolic section cycle logs if you want anything to reference.

Just consider the dose and length, 4 weeks will shut you down and need pct but will likely not provide much in the way of gains.

Totally agree with running the milder compounds but personally I ultimately decided that if I was going to mess with my hormones I wanted to get something from it........

Good luck anyway
 
ELROCK

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The products were given to me. Going on here without giving them positive reviews seems wrong. I can’t take something that was given to me and than talk poorly of it.
You are actually doing the AM community a disservice by going about product reviews/logs like this.
 

mohit

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Hey bro, I’m literally just finishing my first cycle of 1-andro, 4-andro and epiandro (last day of pct tomorrow). I’m also 36.

It’s a solid first stack imo.....as long as your training and nutrition is on point. I’m still 7lbs up and leaner than when I started. I also added 30lbs + to my lifetime best squat and deadlift numbers. Minimal sides, very enjoyable.

But

I would suggest running proper doses and 8 weeks. They really only kick in at week 3-4 so imo 4 weeks will be a disappointment (I originally planned to do something similar to you but after reading literally every post on the compounds I’m glad I changed).

I’d aldo suggest you dose at least 3 caps of each per day (330 of the 1 and 225 of the 4 - the 4 is underdosed IMO but would be ok at that and more cost effective).

Your dosing split is spot on. Just spilt the ar1mcare am and pm as above as well.

Pct looks solid. Personally I went 50/25/25/12.5 clomid and recovered fine. Your probably a touch higher than many would suggest (especially for a mild run) but nothing crazy. Would be fine as you’ve laid out.

My cycle log is in the anabolic section cycle logs if you want anything to reference.

Just consider the dose and length, 4 weeks will shut you down and need pct but will likely not provide much in the way of gains.

Totally agree with running the milder compounds but personally I ultimately decided that if I was going to mess with my hormones I wanted to get something from it........

Good luck anyway
Hey bro,

thanks for your inputs. gonna go through your log now...
 

mohit

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Hey everyone,

Just putting an update to this thread. I have not been able to run the cycle as yet as work is keeping me real busy. However I am planning to start in the next couple of weeks.

Have been doing a lot of thinking on everyone comments about the cycle being really short (4 weeks) and the dosing also very low. However i have already bought 1 bottle each of Chemical 1 & 4 so at 2 tabs per day it will be finished in a month. I do have access to an extra bottle of Chemical 4 which is sitting with a friend. Is it possible to keep running chemical 4 in the second month without the 1 Andro or maybe stack Chemical 4 with Olympus Labs Epi Andro in the second month. Or Epi Andro on its own in the second month?

the only thing which worries me that in 8 weeks the 4 Andro might start Aromatizing....

Guys please suggest....Thx
 
irishiron300

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The dose is too low, and the cycle is too short.

You’ll be wanting 330mg/day of each andro for 6-8 weeks. It takes roughly 3 weeks for the andros to kick, so to stop at 4 would be a waste of product imo.

OL EPI is a great product that allows for a dosage of 750-1000 easily. Do not run separately, epi andro is a great compliment to a cycle but a poor standalone.

If you’re worried about about estro sides, run the epi alongside the cycle the entire length as it will help...or drop the 4 altogether. Use the epi andro as a test base with the 1....very nice cycle. Run standard SERM PCT after.
 

mohit

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The dose is too low, and the cycle is too short.

You’ll be wanting 330mg/day of each andro for 6-8 weeks. It takes roughly 3 weeks for the andros to kick, so to stop at 4 would be a waste of product imo.

OL EPI is a great product that allows for a dosage of 750-1000 easily. Do not run separately, epi andro is a great compliment to a cycle but a poor standalone.

If you’re worried about about estro sides, run the epi alongside the cycle the entire length as it will help...or drop the 4 altogether. Use the epi andro as a test base with the 1....very nice cycle. Run standard SERM PCT after.
Sorry forgot to mention that I have male pattern baldness issues and I have been using Minoxidil spray every night as prescribed yo me.....so I guess Epi Andro is a no go as it will add to the hair loss due to DHT conversion.

Also as I mentioned in my first post that this is my first cycle and I want yo play safe just to see how my body reacts to it.

So do you think running 1 and 4 Andro for 4 weeks and then if everything goes well run that extra bottle of 4 Andro alone week 5 onwards?
 
Whisky

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Sorry forgot to mention that I have male pattern baldness issues and I have been using Minoxidil spray every night as prescribed yo me.....so I guess Epi Andro is a no go as it will add to the hair loss due to DHT conversion.

Also as I mentioned in my first post that this is my first cycle and I want yo play safe just to see how my body reacts to it.

So do you think running 1 and 4 Andro for 4 weeks and then if everything goes well run that extra bottle of 4 Andro alone week 5 onwards?
The 1-andro is the player in this equation, the 4-andro is just there to offset the sides from the 1-andro, ergo if you stop running 1 there is little point in running the 4.

As others inc me have said above get enough to run both 1/4 at 330 for 8 weeks so you get something out of it.

Or scrap running anything anabolic and get a decent natty stack together (xgels, mtest, folllidrone etc)
 
irishiron300

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I’m always an advocate for the minimum effective dose. The object of the game is to net gains after cycle and PCT that make the stress we put on our bodies (suppression/sides) worth it. Running these products for 4 weeks will not net you anything that couldn’t be done off cycle.

When it comes to hormonal products there shouldn’t be a half in/out. You run a product for a dosage/time that is effective or you don’t. Anything less than that is a waste imo.

That all said, I hear your concerns about MPB. There are some SARMS like Osta that have returns similar to the andros. Although estro is always a possibility with hormonal products. In theory SARMS should not hit your hairline. Natty is always an option too.
 

mohit

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The 1-andro is the player in this equation, the 4-andro is just there to offset the sides from the 1-andro, ergo if you stop running 1 there is little point in running the 4.

As others inc me have said above get enough to run both 1/4 at 330 for 8 weeks so you get something out of it.

Or scrap running anything anabolic and get a decent natty stack together (xgels, mtest, folllidrone etc)
So no point in running the 4 Andro alone as it won't do anything?

Sorry for sounding like a n00b but then I guess that I am when it comes to all this.....lol
 
Whisky

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So no point in running the 4 Andro alone as it won't do anything?

Sorry for sounding like a n00b but then I guess that I am when it comes to all this.....lol
Basically yes
 
BloodManor

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Like stated the 1 andro will give you what you are looking for and the 4 andro will also give you gains stacked with one but it’s main job is to combat the sides. Take your time and do it right when messing with your hormones. Get 2 bottles of each and proper pct product like clomid and do a full cycle
2 months of 1 and 4 andro
Then clomid 50/25/25/12.5or 25
 

mohit

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Ok understood....thank you all for your inputs....

On a separate note.... do you think Aromatization will be an issue even after using a good on cycle support supplement like Ar1macare Pro.

If required I can get my hands on Aromasin pharma grade from the chemist. Please advise on the dosage and the strength (how many mgs).

Thanks
 

JoePaul39

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Run both bottles as per label I ran them about 10-12 hrs apart
On cycle support should be like I stated I was editing my post lol

Just curious, does Hi Tech manufacture the andros for Chaos and Pain? I hope not since that would mean they might dry up soon unless manufacturing starts back up.
 
Laxarcher13

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Just curious, does Hi Tech manufacture the andros for Chaos and Pain? I hope not since that would mean they might dry up soon unless manufacturing starts back up.
I highly doubt they do. Chaos and Pain’s quality is higher than what they produce. I ran both of them about 6 or so months ago
 
BloodManor

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Just curious, does Hi Tech manufacture the andros for Chaos and Pain? I hope not since that would mean they might dry up soon unless manufacturing starts back up.
Not that I am aware of pyrobatt
 

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The bottle pics I have seen of Chaos and Pain's andros says they use "Cyclosome delivery" . I believe Hi Tech owns the right to that paticular delivery system...that is why I ask if they manufacture it for them.
 

mohit

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do you think Aromatization will be an issue even after using a good on cycle support supplement like Ar1macare Pro.

If required I can get my hands on Aromasin pharma grade from the chemist. Please advise on the dosage and the strength (how many mgs).

Thanks
 
BloodManor

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I have ran the 1, 4 and Chemical x and never needed a pharma ai but everyone is different
 

mohit

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Please advise on the dosage and the strength (how many mgs).

Just in case
 
pyrobatt

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Not that I am aware of pyrobatt
I'll be honest with you, we use the delivery system which makes the tablets effective. Although our manufacturer is in reality *gets shot by CNPWayne*

Can't say. I can however assure you that our manufacturer is cgmp, gmp and another certification certified. Top notch quality, batches are tested even before they leave to get to us with 3rd party testing.

Q U A L I T Y is not a joke.
 
BloodManor

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I'll be honest with you, we use the delivery system which makes the tablets effective. Although our manufacturer is in reality *gets shot by CNPWayne*

Can't say. I can however assure you that our manufacturer is cgmp, gmp and another certification certified. Top notch quality, batches are tested even before they leave to get to us with 3rd party testing.

Q U A L I T Y is not a joke.
I was always told that Choas and Pain quality is a priority and you can see it here
 

JoePaul39

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I was always told that Choas and Pain quality is a priority and you can see it here
I would consider Chaos and Pain for future cycles. I usually take Olympus Labs UK Elite, but they discontinued all andros. Does the bottle recommend a dosage of only 2 pills a day for the 1 and 4 andro products? If so, would it still be ok to take 3 pills to replicate the 330 mg dosage in the 1 andro study? Also, does Choas and Pain distribute any Epi-Andro product to add to the stack?
 
21marine

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I would consider Chaos and Pain for future cycles. I usually take Olympus Labs UK Elite, but they discontinued all andros. Does the bottle recommend a dosage of only 2 pills a day for the 1 and 4 andro products? If so, would it still be ok to take 3 pills to replicate the 330 mg dosage in the 1 andro study? Also, does Choas and Pain distribute any Epi-Andro product to add to the stack?
Did you ever get an answer on this?
 

mohit

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do you think Aromatization will be an issue even after using a good on cycle support supplement like Ar1macare Pro.

If required I can get my hands on Aromasin pharma grade from the chemist. Please advise on the dosage and the strength (how many mgs).

Thanks
 
Whisky

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do you think Aromatization will be an issue even after using a good on cycle support supplement like Ar1macare Pro.

If required I can get my hands on Aromasin pharma grade from the chemist. Please advise on the dosage and the strength (how many mgs).

Thanks
No on cycle support will address any gyno issues from aromatisation, and personally I wouldn’t run any cycle without having a pharma grade ai on hand just in case.

You probably won’t need it but if you do then you definitely want it there and ready.

Only use if gyno sides show up. When/I’d they do the dosing is individual - for some 6.25 eod is enough, others might be 12.5 ed. If you need to use it I’d start at 6.25 eod and monitor, increase if needed.
 
christ83189

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Id rather have aromasin and not need it than need it and not have it... Dosages vary. 6.25-12.5 eod is a good starting point when you do need it
 
BloodManor

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I would consider Chaos and Pain for future cycles. I usually take Olympus Labs UK Elite, but they discontinued all andros. Does the bottle recommend a dosage of only 2 pills a day for the 1 and 4 andro products? If so, would it still be ok to take 3 pills to replicate the 330 mg dosage in the 1 andro study? Also, does Choas and Pain distribute any Epi-Andro product to add to the stack?
Taking 3 pills a day is how I would run it. I ran it with just 2 a day and had great results and my next run I’m doing 3 a day. 2 pre workout and one pm.
With the 1 and 4 stack there is no need for epiandro since the 4 will take care of it plus some
pyrobatt can add more
 

mohit

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No on cycle support will address any gyno issues from aromatisation, and personally I wouldn’t run any cycle without having a pharma grade ai on hand just in case.

You probably won’t need it but if you do then you definitely want it there and ready.

Only use if gyno sides show up. When/I’d they do the dosing is individual - for some 6.25 eod is enough, others might be 12.5 ed. If you need to use it I’d start at 6.25 eod and monitor, increase if needed.
Whisky
Thanks for replying bro....
So if required 6.25/12.5 eod for how long....till the cycle ends or continue taking it till the end of the PCT?

Where I live, we only get 25mg Aromasin so 6.25 will mean a quarter of a pill...please correct me if I am wrong.
 
Whisky

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Whisky
Thanks for replying bro....
So if required 6.25/12.5 eod for how long....till the cycle ends or continue taking it till the end of the PCT?

Where I live, we only get 25mg Aromasin so 6.25 will mean a quarter of a pill...please correct me if I am wrong.
Yep it’s gonna mean breaking the pills into 4 (I’m in exactly the same situation right now - decent sharp knife has done the job for me).

If you’ve needed to start taking it then I’d run into the first week or so of pct. the compounds your running aren’t (as far as I’ve seen) especially known for rebound gyno so personally I maintain whatever dosing has worked for you and then begin to taper off in pct week 2 (so drop from 6.25 to e3d then e4d for example). Just remember it’s all about balance, you don’t want to crush for estro either - that’s possibly worse. Unfortunately no one will know exact doses and timing for you bro as everyone is different so it’s just a case of monitoring and adjusting.
 
irishiron300

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First Cycle - Chaos & Pain Chemical One and Four - Please advise

Yep it’s gonna mean breaking the pills into 4 (I’m in exactly the same situation right now - decent sharp knife has done the job for me).

If you’ve needed to start taking it then I’d run into the first week or so of pct. the compounds your running aren’t (as far as I’ve seen) especially known for rebound gyno so personally I maintain whatever dosing has worked for you and then begin to taper off in pct week 2 (so drop from 6.25 to e3d then e4d for example). Just remember it’s all about balance, you don’t want to crush for estro either - that’s possibly worse. Unfortunately no one will know exact doses and timing for you bro as everyone is different so it’s just a case of monitoring and adjusting.
that

Pill splitters save on frustration. 5 bucks at any retailer or online will keep it simple too
 

mohit

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Hi all,
Just putting an update to this thread....its been 1 week since I have started the cycle

To start with I am dosing the 1 and 4 Andro at -
1 Andro 220 mg per day (110 mg x 2 tablets AM and PM 12 hrs apart)
4 Andro 150 mg per day (75 mg x 2 tablets AM and PM 12 hrs apart)
Ar1macare Pro 4 caps AM and 4 Caps PM 12 hrs apart
Multivitamin
Jym Fish oil

So far diet and training is on point and I have gained 1.5 kgs in 7 days but I am not sure how much of that is water weight.

Couple of concerns I wanted to discuss before I decide to bump up the dosage of the 1 and 4 Andro as advised by you all....

Firstly I feel a little bloated around the stomach area however I have no evidence of bloating on the face or the neck area...so I am a little confused if this is just due to the increase in the amount of food intake as I am eating more now as I am on cycle or the 4 Andro is aromatising. I don't really feel the bloat when I wake up in the morning and I am empty stomach.

Regarding blood work - do you guys think I should get my estrogen levels checked if yes then when should I do that it's been 7 days since I have started.

Guys please advise if I am being overly paranoid or what (please remember this is my first cycle).
 

EricMM

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Hey bro, I’m literally just finishing my first cycle of 1-andro, 4-andro and epiandro (last day of pct tomorrow). I’m also 36.

It’s a solid first stack imo.....as long as your training and nutrition is on point. I’m still 7lbs up and leaner than when I started. I also added 30lbs + to my lifetime best squat and deadlift numbers. Minimal sides, very enjoyable.

But

I would suggest running proper doses and 8 weeks. They really only kick in at week 3-4 so imo 4 weeks will be a disappointment (I originally planned to do something similar to you but after reading literally every post on the compounds I’m glad I changed).

I’d aldo suggest you dose at least 3 caps of each per day (330 of the 1 and 225 of the 4 - the 4 is underdosed IMO but would be ok at that and more cost effective).

Your dosing split is spot on. Just spilt the ar1mcare am and pm as above as well.

Pct looks solid. Personally I went 50/25/25/12.5 clomid and recovered fine. Your probably a touch higher than many would suggest (especially for a mild run) but nothing crazy. Would be fine as you’ve laid out.

My cycle log is in the anabolic section cycle logs if you want anything to reference.

Just consider the dose and length, 4 weeks will shut you down and need pct but will likely not provide much in the way of gains.

Totally agree with running the milder compounds but personally I ultimately decided that if I was going to mess with my hormones I wanted to get something from it........

Good luck anyway
Great post. I suggest a 2:1 ration of 1-DHEA to 4-DHEA. If you are going to spend the money on a cycle I'd certainly do that opposed to a 1:1 ratio. 1-DHEA is the whip!
 

EricMM

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do you think Aromatization will be an issue even after using a good on cycle support supplement like Ar1macare Pro.

If required I can get my hands on Aromasin pharma grade from the chemist. Please advise on the dosage and the strength (how many mgs).

Thanks
You should be fine. That looks like a solid cycle to me.
 

mohit

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Whisky , irishiron300 , BloodManor

Just putting an update to this thread....its been 1 week since I have started the cycle

To start with I am dosing the 1 and 4 Andro at -
1 Andro 220 mg per day (110 mg x 2 tablets AM and PM 12 hrs apart)
4 Andro 150 mg per day (75 mg x 2 tablets AM and PM 12 hrs apart)
Ar1macare Pro 4 caps AM and 4 Caps PM 12 hrs apart
Multivitamin
Jym Fish oil

So far diet and training is on point and I have gained 1.5 kgs in 7 days but I am not sure how much of that is water weight.

Couple of concerns I wanted to discuss before I decide to bump up the dosage of the 1 and 4 Andro as advised by you all....

Firstly I feel a little bloated around the stomach area however I have no evidence of bloating on the face or the neck area...so I am a little confused if this is just due to the increase in the amount of food intake as I am eating more now as I am on cycle or the 4 Andro is aromatising. I don't really feel the bloat when I wake up in the morning and I am empty stomach.

Regarding blood work - do you guys think I should get my estrogen levels checked if yes then when should I do that it's been 7 days since I have started.

Guys please advise if I am being overly paranoid or what (please remember this is my first cycle).
 
BloodManor

BloodManor

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pyrobatt

I think the bloating is mostly mental and from upping the calories. If you want try a gda and the bloat will be gone and you will feel even fuller with that stack. Estrogen should not be a problem with that stack but I will never tell anyone not to get bloods. If you do I would wait 2 weeks into the cycle. But like I stated I don’t think it is warranted.
 

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