your thoughts on my first cycle..feel free to judge me.

[cordson2]

pretty much aware of the probable answers I might get, and im probably just wanting to hear what I want to hear but...lets say how it goes with you guys...


my on-cycle will consist of the following:

Spartan mass- at 300mg each 1 andro and 4 andro.
ep1louge at suggest dosage.
massacr3 at suggested dosage.
blockade for on cycle and abit of extra prostate help
arimistane at 50mg.

pct will consist of the following:

black lion research for the seem.
vmi axr pct for obv on my otc pct.
Epi-test for the extra acacetin and dim(black stone labs)
D-aspartic acid at about 3.5g
laxo var mostly for the laxogenin and tribulus alatus for 4 weeks pct.

after just simple test boosters.

so let's see the judges and advises I can get, not really intrigued on getting nolva or Clomid just for prefferense.

i want to know if I'll have any long term effects or will my nuts stay shrunk for a long time...

 

[elo76]

On Cycle

#1 What's your cycle length?
#2 Your 1/4 dosages are a hair low. I know it's a combo product, so you will have to up it another pill to get above 330. I would if it was me.
#3 Drop the ep1logue and massacr3 and save it for after your run.
#4 What's the purpose of the arimistane?

PCT

#1 You need a serm for this! You've seen this 1000 times man. NO SERM NO CYCLE.
#2 You can't tell if you are going to have any long term effects. Just get a serm man. You are risking alot for just an andro cycle here. Drop all the other crap and pay the money for clomid or nolva. It's cheaper and those other things do nothing to restart your HPTA.

Take a step back and do some more reading before jumping into this.

 

[Smont]

Why spend all that money on Natty supps when you can buy a real serm for about $30

 

[cordson2]

my cycle will be 4 weeks long, and from my research I thought 300-500mg were for newbies.

and I choose blr only because I've seen some logs here and some people who swear for its ifficancy.

regarding the ep1louge and massacr3 I have it for both on and pct.

and arimistane for the low estrogenic effects of 4 andro.

 

[Smont]

my cycle will be 4 weeks long, and from my research I thought 300-500mg were for newbies.

and I choose blr only because I've seen some logs here and some people who swear for its ifficancy.

regarding the ep1louge and massacr3 I have it for both on and pct.

and arimistane for the low estrogenic effects of 4 andro.

Arimistane does nothing for estrogen and 4 weeks is pointless for Andros, 8-12 weeks and get a real serm

 

[210LBS]

Arimistane does nothing for estrogen and 4 weeks is pointless for Andros, 8-12 weeks and get a real serm

The 4 week study on 1-DHEA showed significant increases in lean body mass and decreases in body fat, so I don't know if I'd use the word "pointless."

 

[Smont]

The 4 week study on 1-DHEA showed significant increases in lean body mass and decreases in body fat, so I don't know if I'd use the word "pointless."

That was one study done over perfect conditions, go talk to the hundreds of ppl that have used them. You wanna waste time and money then go run a 4 week andro cycle for yourself

 

[210LBS]

That was one study done over perfect conditions, go talk to the hundreds of ppl that have used them. You wanna waste time and money then go run a 4 week andro cycle for yourself

"Done over perfect conditions." Would you rather the study be done under imperfect conditions?

 

[Smont]

You sound like my 9 your old arguing over little things. Have you ever used any anabolics or prohormones ect? Studies are not a end all answer, you have no clue what was involved in the study, all you know is what you read on a computer or whatever. Reading 1 study holds no weight vs. Hundreds and hundreds of ppls first hand experience. ( Go try them for yourself and find out, it's the only way you will know for sure) and let me know how it goes.

 

[210LBS]

You sound like my 9 your old arguing over little things. Have you ever used any anabolics or prohormones ect? Studies are not a end all answer, you have no clue what was involved in the study, all you know is what you read on a computer or whatever. Reading 1 study holds no weight vs. Hundreds and hundreds of ppls first hand experience. ( Go try them for yourself and find out, it's the only way you will know for sure) and let me know how it goes.

Actually I would give more weight to 1 study "done under perfect conditions" over 100 random reviews by people who may not have their training and diet perfect. But hey, studies aren't for everyone.

 

[Smont]

Actually I would give more weight to 1 study "done under perfect conditions" over 100 random reviews by people who may not have their training and diet perfect. But hey, studies aren't for everyone.

Ok man have a nice day

 

[cordson2]

so a suicidal ai like arimistane does nothing to protect me from estrogen? that's the first time I've herd this...but truth be told I'm not as experienced as anyone since I'm still a virgin to these substances

 

[Smont]

so a suicidal ai like arimistane does nothing to protect me from estrogen? that's the first time I've herd this...but truth be told I'm not as experienced as anyone since I'm still a virgin to these substances

Arimistane is extremely, extremely weak from a estrogen standpoint.

 

[Smont]

so a suicidal ai like arimistane does nothing to protect me from estrogen? that's the first time I've herd this...but truth be told I'm not as experienced as anyone since I'm still a virgin to these substances

Look around, you will find countless ppl who used it to control estrogen with very poor results.

 

[jameschoi]

Look around, you will find countless ppl who used it to control estrogen with very poor results.

So what is the better option.

 

[Smont]

So what is the better option.

Well first nothing unless you see estrogen related sides. Then real ai like asin. The over the counter prohormones and sarms cause alotta problems, not very strong on side effects for most ppl but if side effects do happen the OTC crap generally won't work. To be perfect honest if you run what you have planned I dout you will see any side effects to begin with, but, if you start getting gyno or your willy stops working or whatever "might" happen, you're going to wish that you had the right stuff to take care of it

 

[Smont]

When I say they cause problems I mean people think because they buy it over the counter did everything else they need can also be bought over-the-counter which generally isn't true

 

[elo76]

I agree with everything Smont is saying. A 4 week andro cycle is worth nothing. Ive done multiple runs with them...i did standard doses...high doses...blah blah. None of them did anything till after 4 weeks. To 2nd the arimistane comment...thats why i asked why you had it in there. If it was to maybe dry out a little while on cycle..ok...but to control estro...it does nothing.

 

[Whisky]

Hey bro,
Smont has you covered.

I’m 2nd week into pct following a 1/4/epiandro cycle (was my first cycle btw). I ran the 1&4 at 340 for 4 weeks then 510 for 4 weeks. 90% of strength and size came in the last 4 weeks.

Do you need a serm - no, you don’t need one. Your natural test will recover eventually and you’ll probably be fine. Problem is the time that takes means you’ll have lost any gains from the cycle long before your test is back to normal.

Big part of a serm is to recover it QUICKLY so you keep as many gains as possible.

Did I like the idea of sourcing pharma grade prescription meds (with no prescription) - did I ****. But researched and realised it was the best way so I did it (actually easier than you probably think).

Re your estrogen concerns - you know you need estro to build muscle right? You don’t want to tank that or you’ll be just as ducked as it being too high. Get a pharma grade AI on hand (I got mine same place as the serm) and use it if gyno appears (I’ve had no gyno signs at all yet).

My log is in the anabolics cycle logs section if you want any info - I had a great time and made good gains.

Saying this to help you - imo what you have planned now will give you nothing that you’ll still have in 3 months. Your risking ****ing with your hormones for no gains bro.......

 

[Nac]

The big obvious difference between the 1dhea study and Joe Public is that the former used scientific and highly discerning measuring equipment to assess body comp changes, whereas Joe Public is at best limited to a bathroom scale and tape measure. But more often than not just the mirror.

Meaning, most Joe Public guys who run 1dhea will not be able to discern the body comp changes in 4 weeks that the study could, because Joe Publics methods for assessment are far too crude. Any body comp changes will tend to be more easily noticed at the 4+ week mark.

 

[Smont]

The big obvious difference between the 1dhea study and Joe Public is that the former used scientific and highly discerning measuring equipment to assess body comp changes, whereas Joe Public is at best limited to a bathroom scale and tape measure. But more often than not just the mirror.

Meaning, most Joe Public guys who run 1dhea will not be able to discern the body comp changes in 4 weeks that the study could, because Joe Publics methods for assessment are far too crude. Any body comp changes will tend to be more easily noticed at the 4+ week mark.

Ohh your so smart, thank you

 

[SFreed]

Just to jump in with everyone else, run it for 8 weeks. I've done 1-Andro / Epi-Andro and 8 weeks is where it's at. Clomid 25/25/25/25/12.5/12.5 and I felt as good during PCT as I did on cycle. Toss in some DHEA and you're set. IMO, of course.

If you can only do 4 weeks, don't come back complaining that 1 Andro is garbage and did nothing for you.

 

[210LBS]

Ohh your so smart, thank you

You keep adding so much to the argument. First you disregard a study because it's too "perfect" and then you further your opinion by continuously adding nothing.

 

[cordson2]

all my concerns are how my genetic make up is, I've seen many people use serms and not recover from them at all and I've seen a guy use blr and recover in 2 weeks or so... I'm probably scared of the long terms and seeing my wini not work for ever or just some random cancer lol

 

[AntM1564]

all my concerns are how my genetic make up is, I've seen many people use serms and not recover from them at all and I've seen a guy use blr and recover in 2 weeks or so... I'm probably scared of the long terms and seeing my wini not work for ever or just some random cancer lol

Do you have blood work to back that up? I have gotten blood work done after using a SERM and other users here and elsewhere have and have recovered fine. The Clomid protocol above is perfect, and even four weeks would be fine. Using a SERM is the safest route you can take. If you are overly concerned, you can use OTC products like you have in your original post.

For OTC products, I prefer an all on in product. There are a few out there, including AlphaMax XT. It will have you covered from all angles, in addition to the SERM. You will get a full dosed AI, Ashwagandha can also help reduce cortisol y reducing stress/anxiety. It also provides an increase in body comp. It helps maintain lean mass and increase fat loss. F95 increase cAMP levels and also does the same thing regarding body composition. You also have several ingredients that will aid in boosting testosterone. It beats buying an AI, testbooster, something for libido, etc. It is a nice, all in one solution when combined with a SERM.

 

[Smont]

You keep adding so much to the argument. First you disregard a study because it's too "perfect" and then you further your opinion by continuously adding nothing.

I was joking with him because he is saying exactly what I was getting at, stop crying

 

[210LBS]

I was joking with him because he is saying exactly what I was getting at, stop crying

His post is what I was getting at. Just because someone doesn't notice a visual change in 4 weeks doesn't mean there wasn't one.

 

[Smont]

His post is what I was getting at. Just because someone doesn't notice a visual change in 4 weeks doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Would you wanna mess with your hormones for no visual change, what would be the point of running that cycle if you look exactly the same when it's over

 

[210LBS]

Would you wanna mess with your hormones for no visual change, what would be the point of running that cycle if you look exactly the same when it's over

I personally wouldn't run the cycle for 4 weeks, but some people do it for the reason of minimizing the side effects as much as possible. And of course you can bounce back after 6 or 8 weeks if you choose to run it that long, but you should bounce back quicker and with less side effects at the 4 week mark, but also with less benefits.

I know you don't approve of the study by Texas A&M and I don't approve of every study either, but the differences in results between the control group and experimental group were substantial enough that it would be difficult to say that 1-DHEA has no impact at the 30 day mark. That study has pretty much set the standard of people using 330mgs daily, but of course people extend their cycles because they want more results, it's not liver toxic, etc. All I said was that it is not pointless at the 30 day mark. Either way, nobody should set their expectations too high with today's andros anyway whether you run it for 4 weeks or 10.

 

[GAINZFORDAYZ]

pretty much aware of the probable answers I might get, and im probably just wanting to hear what I want to hear but...lets say how it goes with you guys...


my on-cycle will consist of the following:

Spartan mass- at 300mg each 1 andro and 4 andro.
ep1louge at suggest dosage.
massacr3 at suggested dosage.
blockade for on cycle and abit of extra prostate help
arimistane at 50mg.

pct will consist of the following:

black lion research for the seem.
vmi axr pct for obv on my otc pct.
Epi-test for the extra acacetin and dim(black stone labs)
D-aspartic acid at about 3.5g
laxo var mostly for the laxogenin and tribulus alatus for 4 weeks pct.

after just simple test boosters.

so let's see the judges and advises I can get, not really intrigued on getting nolva or Clomid just for prefferense.

i want to know if I'll have any long term effects or will my nuts stay shrunk for a long time...

Maybe I missed this, and I hoping this was asked previously. 1.) how long have you been seriously training. 2.) how older are you, 3.) what are your goals, and 4.) what is you current diet and supplementation look like.

I'm relatively against pro-hormones because they are essentially rejected roids that are continuously re-worked to keep on the market resulting in a watered down product. You need to look at your goals and assess the risks. Not promoting gear either but you need have a good reason to turn to pro-hormones over the real stuff. If you are serious about training my best advice is to find a progressive sport or anti-aging clinic and find a doctor that can assist you in your goals.

 

[cordson2]

well I got my hold on some nolvadex from a place which I can't seem to write it here so I wont be able to know if it's legit...great., ill try to do 5 weeks on 1 andro and 4 andro for 300mg, how should I dose it with the other ingredients I got ?

 

[GAINZFORDAYZ]

If you can get your hand's on a legit prescription grade PCT why are you opting for PHs? I would just level set your expectations and once again assess your goals and the risks versus the gainz.

 

[cordson2]

bro, can I just get an answer to play it somewat safe ?

 

[Smont]

bro, can I just get an answer to play it somewat safe ?

Nolva 20-20-10-10, I still think you should run the cycle itself longer but other than that go for it

 

[GAINZFORDAYZ]

Hard to give you advice with not knowing your lifting experience, current nutrition, and age. I just caution all individuals when they are exploring things like PH and gear. In my experience especially with PHs the money you spend on the complete cycle is better spent on other things like coaching or nutrition. Personally for the hundreds of dollars you are spending on this cycle I would rather spend it on a good source of grass fed beef.

With that said you are playing it safe with the andro route. These tend to be less toxic and do not easily convert to estrogen. They do tend to shut down natural test production. Back in the earlier-mid 2000's the my training group was big into andro PHs, and I did not see the need to run a serious PCT. But how it effects you will vary so having a Nolva on hand is choice. Having some type of on cycle support this also ideal. Once again these are watered down compounds that need to be SUCCESSFULLY converted in your body to work, and the biggest thing to worried about is toxicity, cholesterol levels, and your blood pressure getting out of whack. If you experience sever headaches or they make you feel like **** obviously dump them.

 

[GAINZFORDAYZ]

Are you over the age of 25? If your in your early 20's I suggest holding off on starting PHs.

 

[cordson2]

so i plan on staying with my otc serm rebirt, i plan on using kingsblood by ol and sup3r pct for my post cycle, i will be holding on nolvadex, but my new questions are, when is it that i SHOULD add the nolvadex if in anycase my otc pct protocol doesnt work, what week or time. and second question ive read that arimistane should not be included with a serm as it would defeat its purpose if that is true what weeks or times should i take either rebirth, sup3r pct, kingsblood and nolvadex.


should serm be used the first 3 weeks by itself or with kingsblood, or
serm together with sup3r pct and so on...

btw guys thanks for careing about my nuts.

 

[Whisky]

so i plan on staying with my otc serm rebirt, i plan on using kingsblood by ol and sup3r pct for my post cycle, i will be holding on nolvadex, but my new questions are, when is it that i SHOULD add the nolvadex if in anycase my otc pct protocol doesnt work, what week or time. and second question ive read that arimistane should not be included with a serm as it would defeat its purpose if that is true what weeks or times should i take either rebirth, sup3r pct, kingsblood and nolvadex.


should serm be used the first 3 weeks by itself or with kingsblood, or
serm together with sup3r pct and so on...

btw guys thanks for careing about my nuts.

Bro, run the nolva from day 1 of pct at 20/20/10/10. Run rebirth and any other natty otc stuff alongside it but run the nolva from the start (for what it’s worth I would 100% just pick one of the three natties and save the other two - your literally just wasting money running all three)

How you going to know if your otc stuff is working? It’s not like there’s a traffic light system on your balls saying they are good to go.......UNLESS you are doing bloods then waiting to take the nolva will cause nothing but problems (bear in mind that’s not instant, it’s only after around 10 days of clomid I’m starting to feel what I believe is a boost in my test).

Honestly armistane is just pointless in this cycle anyway, the nolva will likely address any estro issues but if you are really concerned about gyno then you’d get a pharma grade ai on hand.....I really can’t see you needing one though.

I hope you get something out of 5 weeks. I’m not sure it will be enough for you to feel this was all worth it though......just saying

 

[cordson2]

just asked only because of esters and how long the andros stay in my body wether i had to wait a few days to use the nolva or not.

 

[Whisky]

just asked only because of esters and how long the andros stay in my body wether i had to wait a few days to use the nolva or not.

Half life is 8-10 hours I think, either way it’s not that long so 2-3 days after last one it’ll be pretty much gone. Start it the day after last cap of the andros.

 

[cordson2]

Whisky

thanks for actually wasteing your time just like everyone here for a dumbo like me.

with the andros i should take them about the same time everyday for example if i take it on monday at 5pm before training i should take it on tuesday again at 5pm and so on, so i dont unbalance the hormones right?

and for the nolva i can take it at any given momment during the day right?

 

[irishiron300]

I can’t believe how long this thread went for!

But seriously...Andros can be a solid first cycle choice. Strength and size gains don’t usually occur with me till wk 3ish. That’s why users (myself included) opt for longer cycles. The PCT of nolva suggested (20-20-10-10) will do the trick, any natty is just a cherry on top.

I usually try and dose andros on a schedule....nolva anytime of day.

 

[Whisky]

Whisky

thanks for actually wasteing your time just like everyone here for a dumbo like me.

with the andros i should take them about the same time everyday for example if i take it on monday at 5pm before training i should take it on tuesday again at 5pm and so on, so i dont unbalance the hormones right?

and for the nolva i can take it at any given momment during the day right?

Yep nolva anytime.

And split the andro dose, am and pm. Exact timing doesn’t make any significant difference, just whatever works for you (if you were running epiandro which many do include in an andro run then it’s worth taking that pre workout but the 1 & 4 just two roughly even doses split am pm would be spot on - you basically want a consistent level which this would give)

 

[AntM1564]

5 weeks? You should go at least 6, I would opt for 8.

 

[Smont]

5 weeks? You should go at least 6, I would opt for 8.

It's been mentioned, he doesn't wanna do it

 

[cordson2]

not that I dnt want to do it, most concerns fall.ontop of the what if my libido crashes for a long time or if I have bad long term effects....i dnt want to fall on top of the test replacement section

 

[elo76]

not that I dnt want to do it, most concerns fall.ontop of the what if my libido crashes for a long time or if I have bad long term effects....i dnt want to fall on top of the test replacement section

Listen to us who have been there and done that. If you are worried about long term effects, libido, etc....why the reluctancy to run a serm? I would opt for clomid since it supposedly does a better job than nolva for restarting hpta.

Also...you have not posted your age here after being asked which makes me think you are probably too young. Which is maybe why you are so concerned with this short simple andro cycle.

 

[cordson2]

even if I'm 15,23, 36 or 54 it's a choice I'm takeing. and ofc I'm concern, I did mention I'm a virgin in the matter, and you said "suppodly " I'm assuming you haven't run into too many cycles

 

[210LBS]

even if I'm 15,23, 36 or 54 it's a choice I'm takeing. and ofc I'm concern, I did mention I'm a virgin in the matter, and you said "suppodly " I'm assuming you haven't run into too many cycles

They usually ask how old you are because there can be better options than prohormones depending on your age.

 

[GAINZFORDAYZ]

even if I'm 15,23, 36 or 54 it's a choice I'm takeing. and ofc I'm concern, I did mention I'm a virgin in the matter, and you said "suppodly " I'm assuming you haven't run into too many cycles

Your age is a major component when dealing with hormones either the actual PH or post cycle therapy. If you don't feel your age is a major thing to take into account when making these decisions you are probably not ready for your first cycle of even PHs.

It's important to understand that when you take these compounds they shut down you natural production of test, and this is why I think it is important to wait until your body has establish a baseline of natural test. Most men start loosing test after the age of 30, but I think most men hit their baseline around the age of 25 (personal opinion). To try to best summarize if you start running these compounds in an inappropriate manner you could mess up this natural baseline.

It sounds like you have made up your mind on how to proceed regardless of the advice given. I think your time and money is probably better spent in further development of your nutrition or training, but this is an assumption. I like Lee Priest philosophy on training and gear he basically advocated doing less and testing things to determine what gives you the most returns. Last note on the matter just remember if your nutrition and training is not on point the gains you obtain during this cycle will be short lived and will not last.

Run the SERM and a OTC PCT if you want to be safe.