Thoughts on urolithin B

Page 1 of 4 123 ... Last
  1. Thoughts on urolithin B


    I may be late because the study below was posted on Mar 17:

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
    pmc/articles/PMC5566634/#!po=27.4194

    I donít think the higher MTOR signaling urolithin B made vs insulin would make a significant difference. Especially considering insulin makes itís incursion multiple times a day through out our bodies. The cells were also incubated with rapamaycin which is an inhibitor of the MTOR pathway. A normal weight lifting person is not taking this stuff everyday. So our MTOR pathway is by no means already down graded, itís being used more often than not. The insulin and UB probably caused some rebound effect.

    In the hyper trophy study, mice gained muscle weight in 4 weeks but lost testicular weight. But plasma test lvls werenít impacted.

    Ellagitannins (ETs) and ellagic acid (EA) are polyphenols present in some fruits, nuts and seeds, such as pomegranates, black raspberries, raspberries, strawberries, walnuts and almonds. ETs are hydrolyzed to EA under physiological conditions in vivo and EA is then gradually metabolized by the intestinal microbiota to produce different types of urolithins.


  2. My browser says 'can't find page'.

    How much testicular weight was lost? And is there any mention of their weight returning to normal post-cessation?
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by u_e_s_i View Post
    My browser says 'can't find page'.

    How much testicular weight was lost? And is there any mention of their weight returning to normal post-cessation?
    I pmíd u the link, the graph measures by fold induction, nor does it talk of post cessation.

  4. Subbed for good discussion

    Absolutely love EP1LOUGE

  5. In for a good discussion as well..

    I truly want to believe that this extract can be used as a natty anabolic, but there is a great deal of conflicting information out there and a vast spectrum of reported responses. Not to mention side effects or lack thereof.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Voldyne View Post
    In for a good discussion as well..

    I truly want to believe that this extract can be used as a natty anabolic, but there is a great deal of conflicting information out there and a vast spectrum of reported responses. Not to mention side effects or lack thereof.
    What info is conflicting?
    OLYMPUS LABS
    My posts outside of OL threads are my opinion, don't take them as offensive!
    [email protected]

  7. Quote Originally Posted by NoAddedHmones View Post
    What info is conflicting?
    Pomegranate-derived ellagitannins have been investigated for their antiaromatase activity and inhibition of testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. A panel of 10 ellagitannin-derived compounds including ellagic acid, gallagic acid, and urolithins A and B (and their acetylated, methylated, and sulfated analogues) were examined for their ability to inhibit aromatase activity and testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. Using a microsomal aromatase assay 6 of the ellagitannin-derived compounds exhibited antiaromatase activity. Urolithin B was shown to be the most effective at inhibiting aromatase activity in a live cell assay. Proliferation assays also determined that urolithin B significantly inhibited testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. The rest of the tested compounds also exhibited antiproliferative activity, but to a lesser degree than urolithin B. Results from studies such as these suggest that pomegranate ellagitannin-derived compounds have potential for the prevention of estrogen-responsive breast cancers.
    http://supplementscience.org/pomegranate.html

    Castration-resistant prostate cancer (CRPC) remains largely dependent on androgen receptor (AR). Residual tissue androgens are consistently detected within CRPC tumors and play a critical role in facilitating AR-mediated signaling pathways which lead to disease progression. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) are the major androgens detected in tumors. They are produced through three biosynthesis pathways: Δ(4), Δ(5), and backdoor pathways. Both androgens bind to and stimulate AR activation. The current study investigates the effects of pomegranate extracts (POM) and their ability to inhibit androgen biosynthesis using PCa cell lines (22RV1 and LNCaP) in vitro as well as the PTEN knockout mouse model representing prostate cancer. Steroids were extracted using ethyl acetate or solid phase extraction, and then analyzed by UPLC/MS/MS. The results showed that POM (0-12μg/mL) reduced the production of testosterone, DHT, DHEA, androstenedione, androsterone, and pregnenolone in both cell lines. In addition our in vivo data supports this observation with a reduction in serum steroids determined after 20 weeks of POM treatment (0.17 g/L in drinking water). In accordance with these results, Western blotting of cell lysates and tPSA analysis determined that PSA was significantly decreased by the treatment of POM. Interestingly, AKR1C3 and AR levels were shown to be increased in both cell lines, perhaps as a negative feedback effect in response to steroid inhibition. Overall, these results provide mechanistic evidence to support the rationale for recent clinical reports describing efficacy of POM in CRPC patients.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24565566


    Sounds like a natural SERM and SARM hybrid with antiandrogenic consequences more than a natty anabolic. I have seen that bloodwork has come back favorable, but was it done after multiple months and were DHT levels included? I have asked a few questions in the thread but I still remain confused.

    Also, is the intent of the dosing to be just enough to elicit a response at the AR without passing over the threshold where it could have some of the SERM, SARM or antiandrogenic effects?

    Thanks for your help...

  8. I would love to get a blood test after my 2 month run but I never got pre-bloods so no point

    I am also on propecia (low dose)

  9. Quote Originally Posted by horizons View Post
    I would love to get a blood test after my 2 month run but I never got pre-bloods so no point

    I am also on propecia (low dose)
    Yes, I have seen that you have really enjoyed your run so far!
  10. Thoughts on urolithin B


    i would do a blood test as well but i also never got pre-bloods..maybe ill do one 2-3 weeks after my 12 weeks run and another one in my 12th week of massacr3. but thats faaar away so not that a big help atm

    oh, im not experiencing any side effect

  11. Words from a study can be confusing.

    The weight of epididymal adipose tissue =/= Leydig Cells(Testosterone) nor Sertoli Cells (spermatozoa).

    Again, nothing related to testicular function/Testosterone production/fertility.
    Olympus Labs Forum Rep, R&D Team
    Olympus Labs. Innovation. Value. Results.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Voldyne View Post

    Pomegranate-derived ellagitannins have been investigated for their antiaromatase activity and inhibition of testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. A panel of 10 ellagitannin-derived compounds including ellagic acid, gallagic acid, and urolithins A and B (and their acetylated, methylated, and sulfated analogues) were examined for their ability to inhibit aromatase activity and testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. Using a microsomal aromatase assay 6 of the ellagitannin-derived compounds exhibited antiaromatase activity. Urolithin B was shown to be the most effective at inhibiting aromatase activity in a live cell assay. Proliferation assays also determined that urolithin B significantly inhibited testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. The rest of the tested compounds also exhibited antiproliferative activity, but to a lesser degree than urolithin B. Results from studies such as these suggest that pomegranate ellagitannin-derived compounds have potential for the prevention of estrogen-responsive breast cancers.
    http://supplementscience.org/pomegranate.html

    Castration-resistant prostate cancer (CRPC) remains largely dependent on androgen receptor (AR). Residual tissue androgens are consistently detected within CRPC tumors and play a critical role in facilitating AR-mediated signaling pathways which lead to disease progression. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) are the major androgens detected in tumors. They are produced through three biosynthesis pathways: Δ(4), Δ(5), and backdoor pathways. Both androgens bind to and stimulate AR activation. The current study investigates the effects of pomegranate extracts (POM) and their ability to inhibit androgen biosynthesis using PCa cell lines (22RV1 and LNCaP) in vitro as well as the PTEN knockout mouse model representing prostate cancer. Steroids were extracted using ethyl acetate or solid phase extraction, and then analyzed by UPLC/MS/MS. The results showed that POM (0-12μg/mL) reduced the production of testosterone, DHT, DHEA, androstenedione, androsterone, and pregnenolone in both cell lines. In addition our in vivo data supports this observation with a reduction in serum steroids determined after 20 weeks of POM treatment (0.17 g/L in drinking water). In accordance with these results, Western blotting of cell lysates and tPSA analysis determined that PSA was significantly decreased by the treatment of POM. Interestingly, AKR1C3 and AR levels were shown to be increased in both cell lines, perhaps as a negative feedback effect in response to steroid inhibition. Overall, these results provide mechanistic evidence to support the rationale for recent clinical reports describing efficacy of POM in CRPC patients.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24565566


    Sounds like a natural SERM and SARM hybrid with antiandrogenic consequences more than a natty anabolic. I have seen that bloodwork has come back favorable, but was it done after multiple months and were DHT levels included? I have asked a few questions in the thread but I still remain confused.

    Also, is the intent of the dosing to be just enough to elicit a response at the AR without passing over the threshold where it could have some of the SERM, SARM or antiandrogenic effects?

    Thanks for your help...
    I am a bit confused with home you are coming to these conclusions? So the first study in cell assays showed UroB possessed Aromatase inhibiting properties. If you look at the results of the study in its context, yeah it did prevent proliferation of CANCER cell lines. This does not necessarily translate to other cell lines. Given we have a study showing it increased muscle mass, its safe to say it likely (like many other compounds which act one way with cancer cells) has the opposite effect in non-cancerous cells.

    The second study uses Pom extract which contains a series of ellagitannins which depending on the individuals gut bacteria, metabolises into different Urolithins, there is a number of studies showing UroA may possess anti-androgen effects, but this isn't true for UroB. In the context of Ep1logue, I can assure you there is zero UroA or other Urolithin's.
    OLYMPUS LABS
    My posts outside of OL threads are my opinion, don't take them as offensive!
    [email protected]

  13. Quote Originally Posted by NoAddedHmones View Post
    I am a bit confused with home you are coming to these conclusions? So the first study in cell assays showed UroB possessed Aromatase inhibiting properties. If you look at the results of the study in its context, yeah it did prevent proliferation of CANCER cell lines. This does not necessarily translate to other cell lines. Given we have a study showing it increased muscle mass, its safe to say it likely (like many other compounds which act one way with cancer cells) has the opposite effect in non-cancerous cells.

    The second study uses Pom extract which contains a series of ellagitannins which depending on the individuals gut bacteria, metabolises into different Urolithins, there is a number of studies showing UroA may possess anti-androgen effects, but this isn't true for UroB. In the context of Ep1logue, I can assure you there is zero UroA or other Urolithin's.
    Thank you,

    That makes sense in regard to straight up pomegranate extract vs Uro-B. The study states pomegranate extracts in a kind of all encompassing manner; as in any extract derived from pomegranates...which we know Uro-B is. Therefore I kind of considered it as being applicable.

    As far as the first study I posted, it makes Uro-B sound remarkably similar to Tamoxifen in terms of the effects it has on a cellular level for treating women with breast cancer. Therefore the SERM correlation.

    On the other hand, I have read many impressive studies about Uro-B. One of which states that further studies are needed and possible side effects are numerous. Regardless, what I am trying to highlight here is I do see the positive data which is certainly abundant.

    Thanks for clearing things up more and I hope you don’t mind if I ask more questions if I think of any. I am quite tempted to get some MASSACR3 while it is still on sale. At least I think they extended the discount code
  14. Thoughts on urolithin B


    Needs more studies for sure
    Last edited by horizons; 12-07-2017 at 07:45 AM. Reason: Deleted

  15. Been using Ep1logue and having great results. Almost finished with my 2 bottle run. Taking a quick break after that and then jumping into a 2 bottle run of Massacr3
    OLYMPUS LABS REP - DemiGod

    USE CODE OLYMPUS30 TO SAVE 30% ON ALL OL SUPPLEMENTS

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Voldyne View Post
    As far as the first study I posted, it makes Uro-B sound remarkably similar to Tamoxifen in terms of the effects it has on a cellular level for treating women with breast cancer. Therefore the SERM correlation.
    ,
    Iíd disagree slightly. SERMs are not AIs. SERMs Selectively Modulate some ERs and not others. Meaning, they attach to the ER and in some case donít have much action (breast tissue) but in others do (bone cells.) They work in BC patients by essentially competing at the ER with Estrogens so the latter have no where to attach. AIs on the other hand reduce the enzyme that converts androgens to estrogens. The study you mentioned seems to indicate this type of action. In my mind, thatís a positive thing. However, what would be interesting to know is if there is any other enzymatic inhibition happening. For example, does this also inhibit any 5a Reductase, the 17b HSD family or 3b HSD family. Over the years weíve seen many compounds from nature that inhibit aromatase only later to discover it can inhibit androgen production as well. Not saying thatís the case here, just a general observation.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by StatePlan1425 View Post
    I’d disagree slightly. SERMs are not AIs. SERMs Selectively Modulate some ERs and not others. Meaning, they attach to the ER and in some case don’t have much action (breast tissue) but in others do (bone cells.) They work in BC patients by essentially competing at the ER with Estrogens so the latter have no where to attach. AIs on the other hand reduce the enzyme that converts androgens to estrogens. The study you mentioned seems to indicate this type of action. In my mind, that’s a positive thing. However, what would be interesting to know is if there is any other enzymatic inhibition happening. For example, does this also inhibit any 5a Reductase, the 17b HSD family or 3b HSD family. Over the years we’ve seen many compounds from nature that inhibit aromatase only later to discover it can inhibit androgen production as well. Not saying that’s the case here, just a general observation.
    Yes, I know what SERMs and AI’s do and I can see your point in regards to that study, as it does detail a path more like an AI as opposed to a SERM. That’s what I get for getting into this after being up all night!

    I also question if this has 5a reductase inhibiting properties, as it is also claimed that Uro-B has an influence on the prostate yet nobody has mentioned DHT levels in any of the bloodwork.

    On the other hand, positive affects on the prostate have more recently been attributed to keeping estrogen in check, which brings us back to Uro-B having AI attributes..

  18. I had blood work done after 4 weeks on Ep1logue. I take finasteride, and so I was curious if my DHT level changed. DHT level was unchanged. If there had been a spike in DHT then I would have immediately stopped taking Ep1logue. I have 3 more weeks left of a 12-week run, and the only side effects I have noticed are increases in strength, hypertrophy, endurance and vascularity.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by slickwillie View Post
    I had blood work done after 4 weeks on Ep1logue. I take finasteride, and so I was curious if my DHT level changed. DHT level was unchanged. If there had been a spike in DHT then I would have immediately stopped taking Ep1logue. I have 3 more weeks left of a 12-week run, and the only side effects I have noticed are increases in strength, hypertrophy, endurance and vascularity.
    Thanks for sharing brother!!
    OLYMPUS LABS REP - DemiGod

    USE CODE OLYMPUS30 TO SAVE 30% ON ALL OL SUPPLEMENTS

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Voldyne View Post
    On the other hand, positive affects on the prostate have more recently been attributed to keeping estrogen in check, which brings us back to Uro-B having AI attributes..
    This is a good point. I am cautiously optimistic about Uro-B and will be watching this closely. BTW, sorry if my first response came across combative. That was not my intent. I can completely empathize with sleep deprived posting ;-)

  21. Quote Originally Posted by slickwillie View Post
    I had blood work done after 4 weeks on Ep1logue. I take finasteride, and so I was curious if my DHT level changed. DHT level was unchanged. If there had been a spike in DHT then I would have immediately stopped taking Ep1logue. I have 3 more weeks left of a 12-week run, and the only side effects I have noticed are increases in strength, hypertrophy, endurance and vascularity.
    Yes...thanks man! You should post that in the Q&A thread, I bet it is not just people in this thread that would like to hear that.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by StatePlan1425 View Post
    This is a good point. I am cautiously optimistic about Uro-B and will be watching this closely. BTW, sorry if my first response came across combative. That was not my intent. I can completely empathize with sleep deprived posting ;-)
    No, not at all. The study kind of sets the stage like it is explaining a Tamoxifen type affect, but upon reading it more closely, you were more accurate in your interpretation..

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Voldyne View Post
    Yes...thanks man! You should post that in the Q&A thread, I bet it is not just people in this thread that would like to hear that.
    Good suggestion. I did post in that thread about the effects on my t, free t and estradiol, but didnít bother to mention DHT (thinking that DHT levels were mainly of interest to the limited number of guys like me taking finasteride and trying to hang on to their hair). I always have DHT tested whenever I have my other hormone levels checked. Most folks probably donít ...... it is a more expensive test. My DHT levels move around within a fairly narrow range, historically between 4.8 and 6.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by slickwillie View Post
    Good suggestion. I did post in that thread about the effects on my t, free t and estradiol, but didn’t bother to mention DHT (thinking that DHT levels were mainly of interest to the limited number of guys like me taking finasteride and trying to hang on to their hair). I always have DHT tested whenever I have my other hormone levels checked. Most folks probably don’t ...... it is a more expensive test. My DHT levels move around within a fairly narrow range, historically between 4.8 and 6.
    Gotcha...
    Yeah, nobody ever really mentions DHT in their bloodwork. I think it important though as it also plays such an important role in how we feel and “perform”

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Voldyne View Post
    Gotcha...
    Yeah, nobody ever really mentions DHT in their bloodwork. I think it important though as it also plays such an important role in how we feel and ďperformĒ
    I realize that some folks suffer sides from finasteride (e.g., sexual dysfunction, gyno, etc.), but I have never had any, and Iíve been taking the drug for the past 20 years because it works.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. thoughts on clomid
    By julius kelp in forum Cycle Logs
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-02-2013, 07:20 PM
  2. Your guys thoughts on this
    By Kitchen Chemist in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-16-2009, 06:45 PM
  3. My Thoughts on Meth 1-T Cycles
    By Skark in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-02-2004, 02:10 PM
  4. thoughts on SU usage at 7 weeks out/9% bf
    By PecSicle in forum Supplements
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-10-2003, 02:45 AM
  5. Your thoughts on the Colorado Experiment
    By ex_banana-eater in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-07-2003, 08:38 PM
Log in
Log in