Thoughts on urolithin B

[Rockzilla]

I may be late because the study below was posted on Mar 17:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
pmc/articles/PMC5566634/#!po=27.4194

I don’t think the higher MTOR signaling urolithin B made vs insulin would make a significant difference. Especially considering insulin makes it’s incursion multiple times a day through out our bodies. The cells were also incubated with rapamaycin which is an inhibitor of the MTOR pathway. A normal weight lifting person is not taking this stuff everyday. So our MTOR pathway is by no means already down graded, it’s being used more often than not. The insulin and UB probably caused some rebound effect.

In the hyper trophy study, mice gained muscle weight in 4 weeks but lost testicular weight. But plasma test lvls weren’t impacted.

Ellagitannins (ETs) and ellagic acid (EA) are polyphenols present in some fruits, nuts and seeds, such as pomegranates, black raspberries, raspberries, strawberries, walnuts and almonds. ETs are hydrolyzed to EA under physiological conditions in vivo and EA is then gradually metabolized by the intestinal microbiota to produce different types of urolithins.

 

[u_e_s_i]

My browser says 'can't find page'.

How much testicular weight was lost? And is there any mention of their weight returning to normal post-cessation?

 

[Rockzilla]

My browser says 'can't find page'.

How much testicular weight was lost? And is there any mention of their weight returning to normal post-cessation?

I pm’d u the link, the graph measures by fold induction, nor does it talk of post cessation.

 

[horizons]

Subbed for good discussion

Absolutely love EP1LOUGE

 

[Voldyne]

In for a good discussion as well..

I truly want to believe that this extract can be used as a natty anabolic, but there is a great deal of conflicting information out there and a vast spectrum of reported responses. Not to mention side effects or lack thereof.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

In for a good discussion as well..

I truly want to believe that this extract can be used as a natty anabolic, but there is a great deal of conflicting information out there and a vast spectrum of reported responses. Not to mention side effects or lack thereof.

What info is conflicting?

 

[Voldyne]

What info is conflicting?

Pomegranate-derived ellagitannins have been investigated for their antiaromatase activity and inhibition of testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. A panel of 10 ellagitannin-derived compounds including ellagic acid, gallagic acid, and urolithins A and B (and their acetylated, methylated, and sulfated analogues) were examined for their ability to inhibit aromatase activity and testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. Using a microsomal aromatase assay 6 of the ellagitannin-derived compounds exhibited antiaromatase activity. Urolithin B was shown to be the most effective at inhibiting aromatase activity in a live cell assay. Proliferation assays also determined that urolithin B significantly inhibited testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. The rest of the tested compounds also exhibited antiproliferative activity, but to a lesser degree than urolithin B. Results from studies such as these suggest that pomegranate ellagitannin-derived compounds have potential for the prevention of estrogen-responsive breast cancers.
http://supplementscience.org/pomegranate.html

Castration-resistant prostate cancer (CRPC) remains largely dependent on androgen receptor (AR). Residual tissue androgens are consistently detected within CRPC tumors and play a critical role in facilitating AR-mediated signaling pathways which lead to disease progression. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) are the major androgens detected in tumors. They are produced through three biosynthesis pathways: Δ(4), Δ(5), and backdoor pathways. Both androgens bind to and stimulate AR activation. The current study investigates the effects of pomegranate extracts (POM) and their ability to inhibit androgen biosynthesis using PCa cell lines (22RV1 and LNCaP) in vitro as well as the PTEN knockout mouse model representing prostate cancer. Steroids were extracted using ethyl acetate or solid phase extraction, and then analyzed by UPLC/MS/MS. The results showed that POM (0-12μg/mL) reduced the production of testosterone, DHT, DHEA, androstenedione, androsterone, and pregnenolone in both cell lines. In addition our in vivo data supports this observation with a reduction in serum steroids determined after 20 weeks of POM treatment (0.17 g/L in drinking water). In accordance with these results, Western blotting of cell lysates and tPSA analysis determined that PSA was significantly decreased by the treatment of POM. Interestingly, AKR1C3 and AR levels were shown to be increased in both cell lines, perhaps as a negative feedback effect in response to steroid inhibition. Overall, these results provide mechanistic evidence to support the rationale for recent clinical reports describing efficacy of POM in CRPC patients.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24565566

Sounds like a natural SERM and SARM hybrid with antiandrogenic consequences more than a natty anabolic. I have seen that bloodwork has come back favorable, but was it done after multiple months and were DHT levels included? I have asked a few questions in the thread but I still remain confused.

Also, is the intent of the dosing to be just enough to elicit a response at the AR without passing over the threshold where it could have some of the SERM, SARM or antiandrogenic effects?

Thanks for your help...

 

[horizons]

I would love to get a blood test after my 2 month run but I never got pre-bloods so no point

I am also on propecia (low dose)

 

[Voldyne]

I would love to get a blood test after my 2 month run but I never got pre-bloods so no point

I am also on propecia (low dose)

Yes, I have seen that you have really enjoyed your run so far!

 

[iamyourfather]

i would do a blood test as well but i also never got pre-bloods..maybe ill do one 2-3 weeks after my 12 weeks run and another one in my 12th week of massacr3. but thats faaar away so not that a big help atm

oh, im not experiencing any side effect

 

[xtyler]

Words from a study can be confusing.

The weight of epididymal adipose tissue =/= Leydig Cells(Testosterone) nor Sertoli Cells (spermatozoa).

Again, nothing related to testicular function/Testosterone production/fertility.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Pomegranate-derived ellagitannins have been investigated for their antiaromatase activity and inhibition of testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. A panel of 10 ellagitannin-derived compounds including ellagic acid, gallagic acid, and urolithins A and B (and their acetylated, methylated, and sulfated analogues) were examined for their ability to inhibit aromatase activity and testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. Using a microsomal aromatase assay 6 of the ellagitannin-derived compounds exhibited antiaromatase activity. Urolithin B was shown to be the most effective at inhibiting aromatase activity in a live cell assay. Proliferation assays also determined that urolithin B significantly inhibited testosterone-induced breast cancer cell proliferation. The rest of the tested compounds also exhibited antiproliferative activity, but to a lesser degree than urolithin B. Results from studies such as these suggest that pomegranate ellagitannin-derived compounds have potential for the prevention of estrogen-responsive breast cancers.
http://supplementscience.org/pomegranate.html

Castration-resistant prostate cancer (CRPC) remains largely dependent on androgen receptor (AR). Residual tissue androgens are consistently detected within CRPC tumors and play a critical role in facilitating AR-mediated signaling pathways which lead to disease progression. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) are the major androgens detected in tumors. They are produced through three biosynthesis pathways: Δ(4), Δ(5), and backdoor pathways. Both androgens bind to and stimulate AR activation. The current study investigates the effects of pomegranate extracts (POM) and their ability to inhibit androgen biosynthesis using PCa cell lines (22RV1 and LNCaP) in vitro as well as the PTEN knockout mouse model representing prostate cancer. Steroids were extracted using ethyl acetate or solid phase extraction, and then analyzed by UPLC/MS/MS. The results showed that POM (0-12μg/mL) reduced the production of testosterone, DHT, DHEA, androstenedione, androsterone, and pregnenolone in both cell lines. In addition our in vivo data supports this observation with a reduction in serum steroids determined after 20 weeks of POM treatment (0.17 g/L in drinking water). In accordance with these results, Western blotting of cell lysates and tPSA analysis determined that PSA was significantly decreased by the treatment of POM. Interestingly, AKR1C3 and AR levels were shown to be increased in both cell lines, perhaps as a negative feedback effect in response to steroid inhibition. Overall, these results provide mechanistic evidence to support the rationale for recent clinical reports describing efficacy of POM in CRPC patients.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24565566

Sounds like a natural SERM and SARM hybrid with antiandrogenic consequences more than a natty anabolic. I have seen that bloodwork has come back favorable, but was it done after multiple months and were DHT levels included? I have asked a few questions in the thread but I still remain confused.

Also, is the intent of the dosing to be just enough to elicit a response at the AR without passing over the threshold where it could have some of the SERM, SARM or antiandrogenic effects?

Thanks for your help...

I am a bit confused with home you are coming to these conclusions? So the first study in cell assays showed UroB possessed Aromatase inhibiting properties. If you look at the results of the study in its context, yeah it did prevent proliferation of CANCER cell lines. This does not necessarily translate to other cell lines. Given we have a study showing it increased muscle mass, its safe to say it likely (like many other compounds which act one way with cancer cells) has the opposite effect in non-cancerous cells.

The second study uses Pom extract which contains a series of ellagitannins which depending on the individuals gut bacteria, metabolises into different Urolithins, there is a number of studies showing UroA may possess anti-androgen effects, but this isn't true for UroB. In the context of Ep1logue, I can assure you there is zero UroA or other Urolithin's.

 

[Voldyne]

I am a bit confused with home you are coming to these conclusions? So the first study in cell assays showed UroB possessed Aromatase inhibiting properties. If you look at the results of the study in its context, yeah it did prevent proliferation of CANCER cell lines. This does not necessarily translate to other cell lines. Given we have a study showing it increased muscle mass, its safe to say it likely (like many other compounds which act one way with cancer cells) has the opposite effect in non-cancerous cells.

The second study uses Pom extract which contains a series of ellagitannins which depending on the individuals gut bacteria, metabolises into different Urolithins, there is a number of studies showing UroA may possess anti-androgen effects, but this isn't true for UroB. In the context of Ep1logue, I can assure you there is zero UroA or other Urolithin's.

Thank you,

That makes sense in regard to straight up pomegranate extract vs Uro-B. The study states pomegranate extracts in a kind of all encompassing manner; as in any extract derived from pomegranates...which we know Uro-B is. Therefore I kind of considered it as being applicable.

As far as the first study I posted, it makes Uro-B sound remarkably similar to Tamoxifen in terms of the effects it has on a cellular level for treating women with breast cancer. Therefore the SERM correlation.

On the other hand, I have read many impressive studies about Uro-B. One of which states that further studies are needed and possible side effects are numerous. Regardless, what I am trying to highlight here is I do see the positive data which is certainly abundant.

Thanks for clearing things up more and I hope you don’t mind if I ask more questions if I think of any. I am quite tempted to get some MASSACR3 while it is still on sale. At least I think they extended the discount code

 

[horizons]

Needs more studies for sure

 

[TrainerTone]

Been using Ep1logue and having great results. Almost finished with my 2 bottle run. Taking a quick break after that and then jumping into a 2 bottle run of Massacr3

 

[StatePlan1425]

As far as the first study I posted, it makes Uro-B sound remarkably similar to Tamoxifen in terms of the effects it has on a cellular level for treating women with breast cancer. Therefore the SERM correlation.
,

I’d disagree slightly. SERMs are not AIs. SERMs Selectively Modulate some ERs and not others. Meaning, they attach to the ER and in some case don’t have much action (breast tissue) but in others do (bone cells.) They work in BC patients by essentially competing at the ER with Estrogens so the latter have no where to attach. AIs on the other hand reduce the enzyme that converts androgens to estrogens. The study you mentioned seems to indicate this type of action. In my mind, that’s a positive thing. However, what would be interesting to know is if there is any other enzymatic inhibition happening. For example, does this also inhibit any 5a Reductase, the 17b HSD family or 3b HSD family. Over the years we’ve seen many compounds from nature that inhibit aromatase only later to discover it can inhibit androgen production as well. Not saying that’s the case here, just a general observation.

 

[Voldyne]

I’d disagree slightly. SERMs are not AIs. SERMs Selectively Modulate some ERs and not others. Meaning, they attach to the ER and in some case don’t have much action (breast tissue) but in others do (bone cells.) They work in BC patients by essentially competing at the ER with Estrogens so the latter have no where to attach. AIs on the other hand reduce the enzyme that converts androgens to estrogens. The study you mentioned seems to indicate this type of action. In my mind, that’s a positive thing. However, what would be interesting to know is if there is any other enzymatic inhibition happening. For example, does this also inhibit any 5a Reductase, the 17b HSD family or 3b HSD family. Over the years we’ve seen many compounds from nature that inhibit aromatase only later to discover it can inhibit androgen production as well. Not saying that’s the case here, just a general observation.

Yes, I know what SERMs and AI’s do and I can see your point in regards to that study, as it does detail a path more like an AI as opposed to a SERM. That’s what I get for getting into this after being up all night!

I also question if this has 5a reductase inhibiting properties, as it is also claimed that Uro-B has an influence on the prostate yet nobody has mentioned DHT levels in any of the bloodwork.

On the other hand, positive affects on the prostate have more recently been attributed to keeping estrogen in check, which brings us back to Uro-B having AI attributes..

 

[slickwillie]

I had blood work done after 4 weeks on Ep1logue. I take finasteride, and so I was curious if my DHT level changed. DHT level was unchanged. If there had been a spike in DHT then I would have immediately stopped taking Ep1logue. I have 3 more weeks left of a 12-week run, and the only side effects I have noticed are increases in strength, hypertrophy, endurance and vascularity.

 

[TrainerTone]

I had blood work done after 4 weeks on Ep1logue. I take finasteride, and so I was curious if my DHT level changed. DHT level was unchanged. If there had been a spike in DHT then I would have immediately stopped taking Ep1logue. I have 3 more weeks left of a 12-week run, and the only side effects I have noticed are increases in strength, hypertrophy, endurance and vascularity.

Thanks for sharing brother!!

 

[StatePlan1425]

On the other hand, positive affects on the prostate have more recently been attributed to keeping estrogen in check, which brings us back to Uro-B having AI attributes..

This is a good point. I am cautiously optimistic about Uro-B and will be watching this closely. BTW, sorry if my first response came across combative. That was not my intent. I can completely empathize with sleep deprived posting ;-)

 

[Voldyne]

I had blood work done after 4 weeks on Ep1logue. I take finasteride, and so I was curious if my DHT level changed. DHT level was unchanged. If there had been a spike in DHT then I would have immediately stopped taking Ep1logue. I have 3 more weeks left of a 12-week run, and the only side effects I have noticed are increases in strength, hypertrophy, endurance and vascularity.

Yes...thanks man! You should post that in the Q&A thread, I bet it is not just people in this thread that would like to hear that.

 

[Voldyne]

This is a good point. I am cautiously optimistic about Uro-B and will be watching this closely. BTW, sorry if my first response came across combative. That was not my intent. I can completely empathize with sleep deprived posting ;-)

No, not at all. The study kind of sets the stage like it is explaining a Tamoxifen type affect, but upon reading it more closely, you were more accurate in your interpretation..

 

[slickwillie]

Yes...thanks man! You should post that in the Q&A thread, I bet it is not just people in this thread that would like to hear that.

Good suggestion. I did post in that thread about the effects on my t, free t and estradiol, but didn’t bother to mention DHT (thinking that DHT levels were mainly of interest to the limited number of guys like me taking finasteride and trying to hang on to their hair). I always have DHT tested whenever I have my other hormone levels checked. Most folks probably don’t ...... it is a more expensive test. My DHT levels move around within a fairly narrow range, historically between 4.8 and 6.

 

[Voldyne]

Good suggestion. I did post in that thread about the effects on my t, free t and estradiol, but didn’t bother to mention DHT (thinking that DHT levels were mainly of interest to the limited number of guys like me taking finasteride and trying to hang on to their hair). I always have DHT tested whenever I have my other hormone levels checked. Most folks probably don’t ...... it is a more expensive test. My DHT levels move around within a fairly narrow range, historically between 4.8 and 6.

Gotcha...
Yeah, nobody ever really mentions DHT in their bloodwork. I think it important though as it also plays such an important role in how we feel and “perform”

 

[slickwillie]

Gotcha...
Yeah, nobody ever really mentions DHT in their bloodwork. I think it important though as it also plays such an important role in how we feel and “perform”

I realize that some folks suffer sides from finasteride (e.g., sexual dysfunction, gyno, etc.), but I have never had any, and I’ve been taking the drug for the past 20 years because it works.

 

[Voldyne]

I realize that some folks suffer sides from finasteride (e.g., sexual dysfunction, gyno, etc.), but I have never had any, and I’ve been taking the drug for the past 20 years because it works.

Yeah, some people definitely tolerate it well and have success with it...others, not so much.

A good friend of mine did very well on it. He has since passed away though..

 

[iamyourfather]

I realize that some folks suffer sides from finasteride (e.g., sexual dysfunction, gyno, etc.), but I have never had any, and I’ve been taking the drug for the past 20 years because it works.

i think its also highly dose-depending. finasteride is active even with only 5-10mg; some doctors describe massive amounts of it/some bodybuilder prescribe it to themselves in way to high doses and then they get weird side effects. most people that had side effects, also used a quite big dose

how big is your dose?

 

[slickwillie]

i think its also highly dose-depending. finasteride is active even with only 5-10mg; some doctors describe massive amounts of it/some bodybuilder prescribe it to themselves in way to high doses and then they get weird side effects. most people that had side effects, also used a quite big dose

how big is your dose?

Propecia is 1 mg. For hair loss purposes I have read that higher doses do not materially increase its effectiveness, but can materially increase the risk of side effects.

 

[iamyourfather]

Propecia is 1 mg. For hair loss purposes I have read that higher doses do not materially increase its effectiveness, but can materially increase the risk of side effects.

really? didnt know that a 1mg product is on the market; but yeah, that small dose should be the reason for your non-existing side effects. there are loads of horror stories out there in the internet, i think these people did mostly not know what they are doing or the doctors werent on point (sadly this happens way to often, that a doctor isnt up to date)

 

[rowz4broz]

Also in for discussion

 

[TheIronAsylum]

soo why would anyone want testicular weight loss? sounds like its making the testicles less effective

 

[horizons]

I realize that some folks suffer sides from finasteride (e.g., sexual dysfunction, gyno, etc.), but I have never had any, and I’ve been taking the drug for the past 20 years because it works.

Same. Been a great thing for me

I take 0.5mg EOD

 

[rowz4broz]

soo why would anyone want testicular weight loss? sounds like its making the testicles less effective

No one wants that. They are not taking Uro B for less testicle effectiveness. That’s like buying a hooker to spend money lol.

ppl have been reporting what I’ll call sarm like gains with this compound. Personally I’m skeptical tho as I have ED issues and unarguablely the worst joint pain ever. Not related to epi.

I don’t have bloods to back up any of this other then an unbiased first hand account.

 

[TheIronAsylum]

No one wants that. They are not taking Uro B for less testicle effectiveness. That’s like buying a hooker to spend money lol.

ppl have been reporting what I’ll call sarm like gains with this compound. Personally I’m skeptical tho as I have ED issues and unarguablely the worst joint pain ever. Not related to epi.

I don’t have bloods to back up any of this other then an unbiased first hand account.

i feel like this **** ****ed my stuff up to when i first started it worked great now after almost finishing im having ed type issues as well

 

[iamyourfather]

im through 1,5 bottles and absolutely dont have any ed issues. my joint pains which i had before i started with ep1logue are gone now - so i actually have less joint pain after 6 weeks in.
my libido is up if anything, i have even bigger desire for sex than i had before i started.

so we experience the exact opposite of each other; i would say UroB is not related to any of these effects. this happens mainly in the head imho.

or what do you mean with ed issues? you cant get a boner?!

 

[rowz4broz]

im through 1,5 bottles and absolutely dont have any ed issues. my joint pains which i had before i started with ep1logue are gone now - so i actually have less joint pain after 6 weeks in.
my libido is up if anything, i have even bigger desire for sex than i had before i started.

so we experience the exact opposite of each other; i would say UroB is not related to any of these effects. this happens mainly in the head imho.

or what do you mean with ed issues? you cant get a boner?!

On two different occasions while in the middle of intercourse with my girlfriend and I went completely soft. This is never before happened to me at a level of comfort I have with her is very high we have been going out for over five years so I can’t attribute this to be anything in my head. After stopping uro b Both the joint pain and ED issues went away, in my case I really do believe that uro b Was responsible for that. It’s reports like yours that keep me very interested in this supplement, I will be keeping a close eye on this thread.

 

[TheIronAsylum]

On two different occasions while in the middle of intercourse with my girlfriend and I went completely soft. This is never before happened to me at a level of comfort I have with her is very high we have been going out for over five years so I can’t attribute this to be anything in my head. After stopping uro b Both the joint pain and ED issues went away, in my case I really do believe that uro b Was responsible for that. It’s reports like yours that keep me very interested in this supplement, I will be keeping a close eye on this thread.

this sounds like the exact same issue as me
also feels like my testicles arent working like they are staying dropped down sort of thing (hard to explain)

 

[iamyourfather]

On two different occasions while in the middle of intercourse with my girlfriend and I went completely soft. This is never before happened to me at a level of comfort I have with her is very high we have been going out for over five years so I can’t attribute this to be anything in my head. After stopping uro b Both the joint pain and ED issues went away, in my case I really do believe that uro b Was responsible for that. It’s reports like yours that keep me very interested in this supplement, I will be keeping a close eye on this thread.

hmm i dont have an idea for the ED issues you have experienced. but let me tell you this - if you think in your head that UroB could do this, that there is a possibility, and if you are a little afraid of this idea, it can happen in real very easily. your mind is very strong in starting any reactions in your body! not saying that you have just imagined your ED issues but it COULD be a plausible and legit answer. just keep that in mind.

and as far as joint pain - i got joint pain because i train with a VERY high volume. maybe a little to much for a natty; this fact compared with a few bad habits in regards of correct range of motion during incline bp made me feel joint pain in my shoulder. i didnt make a longer resting period, i still trained 6 times a week, so the pain was there. sometimes stronger, sometimes only very little noticeable.
last week i felt something in my rotator cuff so i decided to give my body a break. i had a break of 1 week (i still took the ep1logue; didnt want to stop my cycle just because of 1 week) and started again a few day ago. my joint pain is nearly completely gone and i feel very refreshed.

long story short - when was your last break? more than only one or two days off the gym? maybe your joint pain wouldnt be there if you give your body some rest days. maybe you have a few exercises which you explain wrong? (even if its slightly wrong; this can lead to joint pain. especially if you train a little harder while being on ep1logue or something.)

 

[rowz4broz]

hmm i dont have an idea for the ED issues you have experienced. but let me tell you this - if you think in your head that UroB could do this, that there is a possibility, and if you are a little afraid of this idea, it can happen in real very easily. your mind is very strong in starting any reactions in your body! not saying that you have just imagined your ED issues but it COULD be a plausible and legit answer. just keep that in mind.

and as far as joint pain - i got joint pain because i train with a VERY high volume. maybe a little to much for a natty; this fact compared with a few bad habits in regards of correct range of motion during incline bp made me feel joint pain in my shoulder. i didnt make a longer resting period, i still trained 6 times a week, so the pain was there. sometimes stronger, sometimes only very little noticeable.
last week i felt something in my rotator cuff so i decided to give my body a break. i had a break of 1 week (i still took the ep1logue; didnt want to stop my cycle just because of 1 week) and started again a few day ago. my joint pain is nearly completely gone and i feel very refreshed.

long story short - when was your last break? more than only one or two days off the gym? maybe your joint pain wouldnt be there if you give your body some rest days. maybe you have a few exercises which you explain wrong? (even if its slightly wrong; this can lead to joint pain. especially if you train a little harder while being on ep1logue or something.)

To your first point... I wasn't even aware that Uro B could cause this, infant everyone had been reporting that libido was up! So i was expecting the same. I did not have the mindset that this could be the reason for this infact I tried to convince myself that it had to be unrelated, due to everyone else reports. In my certain case it cannot be mindset, but now as this has been brought to light for people that do experience this it could be mindset. In my certain case it cannot be.

Also in my log i think i mentioned training volume for me was down and i felt lethargy (also gone) throughout the day. I was not working out harder stronger or better on Uro B. I did have some SICKKKK pumps in the beginning.

Please keep in mind it seems that people who report negative sides are in the minority so this compound DEF is a winner in most ppl's cases not mine.

the saying no one knows your car better then yourself (i.e. when it starts making a funny noise that no one else would notice) I also believe that no one knows our body then ourself. Uro B was not for me

 

[horizons]

A lot of supplements work differently on people

Like heaps of people loved alphamax XT. I personally hated it. Could not get it up for weeks and gave the bottle away

 

[rowz4broz]

A lot of supplements work differently on people

Like heaps of people loved alphamax XT. I personally hated it. Could not get it up for weeks and gave the bottle away

I couldn't agree more with your bolded point!

 

[xtyler]

soo why would anyone want testicular weight loss? sounds like its making the testicles less effective

Words from a study can be confusing.

The weight of epididymal adipose tissue =/= Leydig Cells(Testosterone) nor Sertoli Cells (spermatozoa).

Again, nothing related to testicular function itself/Testosterone production/fertility.

Just in case this got accidentally overlooked again.

 

[Voldyne]

soo why would anyone want testicular weight loss? sounds like its making the testicles less effective

It seems rather that urolithin B has ‘testosterone‐like’ effects. This hypothesis is supported by a lower mass of testicular and epididymal adipose tissue in mice having received urolithin B.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5566634/

Previous investigators demonstrated that epididymal white adipose tissue (EWAT) lipectomy suppressed spermatogenesis and caused atrophy of the seminiferous tubules. EWAT lipectomy, however, may disrupt testicular innervation, which reportedly compromises testicular function. The findings indicate a significant reduction in spermatogenic activity and marked seminal tubule atrophy within the EWATx testis, as compared to the SSNx and controls testes, which did not differ significantly from each other. From these data, it is concluded that EWAT, and not testicular innervation, is central to normal spermatogenesis.
https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1036&context=biology_theses

I could be missing something, but that is the exact impression I get too..

 

[Uncle_E]

1.5 bottles in on Epi, and I've been feeling that dropped down thing too. I've also gotten 'soft' a few times too, never felt this before.

I must note that I hardly ever use PWO's, but started taking Mesomorph at the same time as the Epi - I've attributed most of the issues to the Meso?

 

[Voldyne]

1.5 bottles in on Epi, and I've been feeling that dropped down thing too. I've also gotten 'soft' a few times too, never felt this before.

I must note that I hardly ever use PWO's, but started taking Mesomorph at the same time as the Epi - I've attributed most of the issues to the Meso?

Have you been taking the Mesomorph every day...all day? Temporary stim-d is common for PWOs but should be transient...

 

[rowz4broz]

1.5 bottles in on Epi, and I've been feeling that dropped down thing too. I've also gotten 'soft' a few times too, never felt this before.

I must note that I hardly ever use PWO's, but started taking Mesomorph at the same time as the Epi - I've attributed most of the issues to the Meso?

I’d be interested in hearing your report on a day where meso isn’t supplemented since DMAA is tied heavily to
Stim dick

 

[VO2Maxima]

1.5 bottles in on Epi, and I've been feeling that dropped down thing too. I've also gotten 'soft' a few times too, never felt this before.

I must note that I hardly ever use PWO's, but started taking Mesomorph at the same time as the Epi - I've attributed most of the issues to the Meso?

Have you been taking the Mesomorph every day...all day? Temporary stim-d is common for PWOs but should be transient...

DMAA's half life is like 8.5 hours, give or take an hour or two. So it's present in your system for quite a long time. I would also think this is probably the Mesomorph.

 

[xtyler]

It seems rather that urolithin B has ‘testosterone‐like’ effects. This hypothesis is supported by a lower mass of testicular and epididymal adipose tissue in mice having received urolithin B.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5566634/

Previous investigators demonstrated that epididymal white adipose tissue (EWAT) lipectomy suppressed spermatogenesis and caused atrophy of the seminiferous tubules. EWAT lipectomy, however, may disrupt testicular innervation, which reportedly compromises testicular function. The findings indicate a significant reduction in spermatogenic activity and marked seminal tubule atrophy within the EWATx testis, as compared to the SSNx and controls testes, which did not differ significantly from each other. From these data, it is concluded that EWAT, and not testicular innervation, is central to normal spermatogenesis.
https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1036&context=biology_theses

I could be missing something, but that is the exact impression I get too..

We can either talk about the actual effects of Urolithin B (muscle hypertrophy and no effect on Testosterone output from the testicles), or wildly speculate on anything and everything that may sound remotely related to UroB, like epididymal lipectomy, synthetic SARMs/SERMs and so on.

I wholeheartedly hate Eristic (argument that aims to successfully dispute another's argument, rather than searching for truth) so if this is what the whole discussion is going to revolve about, I'm out.

I could emphasize that pomegranate consumption increases epididymal sperm concentration, motility, spermatogenic cell density, diameter of seminiferous tubules and germinal cell layer thickness.

Or maybe I could underline that studies on repeated dose of orally administered Urolithins demonstrated that Urolithins are not genotoxic. 90-day studies showed no alterations in clinical parameters, blood chemistry, or hematology, and did not indicate any target organs, or any specific toxic mechanisms. The highest dose tested, 3451 mg/kg bw/day in males in the 90-day oral study, was absurdy high also.

I could, but I won't. Because I stick to what we actually know and what actually pertains to the compound itself.

 

[Uncle_E]

Haha, not taking it all day everyday. You would have seen me on the evening news by now if that was the case. I specifically see the 'soft' symptoms within hours of taking the Meso, and don't on off days. So I'm confident that it the major cause for that. The hard to describe testicle thing though, I think may be related to the Uro B.

 

[u_e_s_i]

No one wants that. They are not taking Uro B for less testicle effectiveness. That’s like buying a hooker to spend money lol.

ppl have been reporting what I’ll call sarm like gains with this compound. Personally I’m skeptical tho as I have ED issues and unarguablely the worst joint pain ever. Not related to epi.

I don’t have bloods to back up any of this other then an unbiased first hand account.

As for ED (Not sure about all the related science, scientists please weigh in)

'Pump inducing compounds' increase the 'pump' in muscle tissue and so increase their area, which would mean they require more blood to 'fill up'. If more of your blood is in your muscle tissue, there'll be less to go around for the rest of you. Pen**es aren't made of muscle. Getting hard requires blood. Perhaps as there's less blood to go around the rest of you, it's more difficult for you to maintain a sufficiently high local blood pressure to stay hard.


As for joint issues

Recently my elbow's been acting up when I do triceps too and my wrists have been verging on discomfort. I've been making good gains and am working out 6 days a week. It's possible that when you're working out often, lifting heavy and making good progress your ligaments can fall a lil behind your muscular development

rowz4broz has your supps regiment changed in any other way?