DMHA is not even close to DMAA in feeling.

[CompeteNPC]

It just amazes me that companies are marketing this stuff to be close or even better than DMAA. Its not. Thats all I am going to say here.

Your thoughts?

 

[rowz4broz]

different for sure.

better or worse? idk its like comparing grapes to raisins

 

[CompeteNPC]

different for sure.

better or worse? idk its like comparing grapes to raisins

The DMAA that is available now isn't even the same as the stuff that was on the market originally. Wrong or right?

I would even say the pre workouts available today are nowhere near as powerful as the stuff that came out in the 80's and 90's before true EPHEDRA was banned. Back then they could put DMAA, Caffeine and EPHEDRA all in the same product and sell it anywhere.

 

[rowz4broz]

The DMAA that is available now isn't even the same as the stuff that was on the market originally. Wrong or right?

I would even say the pre workouts available today are nowhere near as powerful as the stuff that came out in the 80's and 90's before true EPHEDRA was banned. Back then they could put DMAA, Caffeine and EPHEDRA all in the same product and sell it anywhere.

to your first point it would be speculation based, but i would say right~ish

OG jacked used to get me going... i think craze's stim blend also had DMAA (i forget) thing is, i believe a lot of these pre's that claimed to only contain DMAA were spiked though.

Also to your orginial post, i thought you were talking about the DMAA (mesomorph, wicked,etc) of today vs DMHA (kraken)

I think they both have their place... unique in their own ways

edit - I cant speak to the 80's and 90's only 2008+ (craze, OG jacked)

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

It just amazes me that companies are marketing this stuff to be close or even better than DMAA. Its not. Thats all I am going to say here.

Your thoughts?

Yeah I dropped my previous favorite pre workout Outlier Nutrition's Deviation. It was a complete matrix good DMAA caffeine mix, but then they dropped their PH line and went DMHA for their Deviation pre workout product at the same time.

Ruined the flavors of the pre drink and does provide a different energy than the clear sharp DMAA feeling. I'd be ok DMHA, but it's makes the drink taste taste asprin/ medicine flavor.

 

[Voldyne]

I can’t feel anything from the products that listed DMAA as an ingredient in recent years. Rewind back maybe 7 or 8 years ago and it was a different story but unfortunately, it was a big high that was quickly followed with a crash.

I much prefer the feeling of DMHA products and the fact that I don’t crash...

 

[shockrock3]

I've had this discussion for the last 2+ yrs. The DMAA now IS NOT what it was years ago, that's a fact. Any company reps that say its the same are just shilling their products. People aren't stupid, people know this sht isn't DMAA....or if it is...it is a watered down extract.
I'd love for PricePlow or Stack3d to send products out to be tested for DMAA content. Don't think the results would shock anyone. DMHA compared to DMAA/DMBA is laughable. Barely even produces any euphoric feeling.

 

[CompeteNPC]

I've had this discussion for the last 2+ yrs. The DMAA now IS NOT what it was years ago, that's a fact. Any company reps that say its the same are just shilling their products. People aren't stupid, people know this sht isn't DMAA....or if it is...it is a watered down extract.
I'd love for PricePlow or Stack3d to send products out to be tested for DMAA content. Don't think the results would shock anyone. DMHA compared to DMAA/DMBA is laughable. Barely even produces any euphoric feeling.

Is the DMAA that you can buy in bulk the same as the stuff that was in the pre workouts say 10 years ago? If so I'd rather just add that to my pre's myself. What is your opinion?

 

[kelvarnsen]

I've always said that I feel that the DMAA that was in the original Jack3d was different than the DMAA today. For starters I'm not sure it was produced in China like it is now. Anyone who knows anything about gear can tell you a lot of the stuff that is manufactured in Chinese labs like Anavar isn't anywhere close to being the same as real pharma Anavar.

Priceplow put up a table here https://blog.priceplow.com/wp-content/uploads/zhang-study-dmaa-detected-removed-charts.png that lists the DMAA content in some products that I used way back in the day. I have no idea if these tests are accurate.

Jack3d is listed at 142mg per serving. I was taking 2-3 scoops of Jack3d back in 2010 and the focus and energy I got off it was unreal. I also crashed hard.

1MR is listed at 85mg per serving.

So either we are using a completely different compound today or a lower quality one, or these products contained heavy undisclosed doses that have a completely different effect at higher doses. I don't think today's DMAA products are bad, they just aren't anywhere close to being the same.

 

[CompeteNPC]

I've always said that I feel that the DMAA that was in the original Jack3d was different than the DMAA today. For starters I'm not sure it was produced in China like it is now. Anyone who knows anything about gear can tell you a lot of the stuff that is manufactured in Chinese labs like Anavar isn't anywhere close to being the same as real pharma Anavar.

Priceplow put up a table here https://blog.priceplow.com/wp-content/uploads/zhang-study-dmaa-detected-removed-charts.png that lists the DMAA content in some products that I used way back in the day. I have no idea if these tests are accurate.

Jack3d is listed at 142mg per serving. I was taking 2-3 scoops of Jack3d back in 2010 and the focus and energy I got off it was unreal. I also crashed hard.

1MR is listed at 85mg per serving.

So either we are using a completely different compound today or a lower quality one, or these products contained heavy undisclosed doses that have a completely different effect at higher doses. I don't think today's DMAA products are bad, they just aren't anywhere close to being the same.

So basically they are underdosed products per serving and tub. So a person needs to take 2-3 scoops of the stuff to feel the same effects as one scoop of the original Jack3d for example.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

mod edit: read the rules. Or just what they claim is in the pre workout mix? Reason being I switched to Elite Labs USA Pre Rage (similar profile to Outlier's Deviation) sans the DMHA, but a bit more caffeine instead. Then I got a few bottles on black friday special of pure DMAA coming, to control dose for my pet ectodragon's research.

 

[shockrock3]

Is the DMAA that you can buy in bulk the same as the stuff that was in the pre workouts say 10 years ago? If so I'd rather just add that to my pre's myself. What is your opinion?

I haven't seen it in bulk in a long time...I'm not as upto date on raw suppliers, the last one I knew that had it was NutriVita shop. If you knew of a reliable Chinese raw supplier...prob. pretty cheap to order bulk and see.

 

[EricMM]

I think a lot of it is what it's mixed with too! Things have a way of cancelling each other out. I see this a lot!

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

Why do people keep claiming the DMAA wasn't the same? I could tell as soon as I took meso that it was. I just think you built some fantasy up in your mind about how amazing it used to be. It gave me the same sort of euphoria feeling it did before and the same exact stim dink.

 

[Godstrength]

Why do people keep claiming the DMAA wasn't the same? I could tell as soon as I took meso that it was. I just think you built some fantasy up in your mind about how amazing it used to be. It gave me the same sort of euphoria feeling it did before and the same exact stim dink.

I have a tub of the og jack 3d in my fridge. Its almost 2 years past expiration and still hits harder.... It isnt the same

 

[customshopkv1]

I personally prefer Amp Citrate

 

[rowz4broz]

I have a tub of the og jack 3d in my fridge. Its almost 2 years past expiration and still hits harder.... It isnt the same

any possibility of that jack3d being spiked?

 

[Godstrength]

any possibility of that jack3d being spiked?

No lol the original 1mr was the same.... Hit hard as ****.

I remember the first time I tried jacked up from hi tech. I was so excited they had a jack 3d clone. I was like this kinda feels like it but it was really light. Just never hit like the og I was disappointed.

 

[USPlabsRep]

I've always said that I feel that the DMAA that was in the original Jack3d was different than the DMAA today. For starters I'm not sure it was produced in China like it is now. Anyone who knows anything about gear can tell you a lot of the stuff that is manufactured in Chinese labs like Anavar isn't anywhere close to being the same as real pharma Anavar.

Priceplow put up a table here https://blog.priceplow.com/wp-content/uploads/zhang-study-dmaa-detected-removed-charts.png that lists the DMAA content in some products that I used way back in the day. I have no idea if these tests are accurate.

Jack3d is listed at 142mg per serving. I was taking 2-3 scoops of Jack3d back in 2010 and the focus and energy I got off it was unreal. I also crashed hard.

1MR is listed at 85mg per serving.

So either we are using a completely different compound today or a lower quality one, or these products contained heavy undisclosed doses that have a completely different effect at higher doses. I don't think today's DMAA products are bad, they just aren't anywhere close to being the same.

yea, no, not 142mgs a serving, that's insane. You shouldn't recommend false hoods.

 

[USPlabsRep]

any possibility of that jack3d being spiked?

like a triple -1,00000% chance, probably the most independent tested supplement in history of the world.

 

[USPlabsRep]

So basically they are underdosed products per serving and tub. So a person needs to take 2-3 scoops of the stuff to feel the same effects as one scoop of the original Jack3d for example.

Don't listen to a random dude on the forum before forming your own conclusion, should be the rule of thumb for anyone, ever.

 

[rowz4broz]

like a triple -1,00000% chance, probably the most independent tested supplement in history of the world.

thats awesome....
what do you think is the reason then for OP's question in terms of DMAA from then VS DMAA of now

 

[USPlabsRep]

thats awesome....
what do you think is the reason then for OP's question in terms of DMAA from then VS DMAA of now

no clue. DMAA is DMAA.

 

[CompeteNPC]

like a triple -1,00000% chance, probably the most independent tested supplement in history of the world.

Any chance you re-release Jack3d one day with the original formula? That would be fun to see.

 

[CATdiesel76]

For the last damn time the DMAA is the same. I have sitting in my cabinet opened tubs of OG jack3d, muscle marinade, amp (the very first DMAA product), and clearshot. The stuff today is the exact same. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t taken DMAA for 5 years, it will never hit the same as when you first took it. The first time I took
Amp, it was like damn adderall with only two caps at a whopping 25mg. Now 100mg of the same **** is just a nice boost.

Meomorph is pretty damn close to Muscle Marinade which was the strongest DMAA product of its day. Why do you think ex opiate abusers have a super high tolerance after decades of being clean.

As for old ephedra products, the shop business was the Wild West in those days. Half the **** was spoke with god knows what

 

[Godstrength]

For the last damn time the DMAA is the same. I have sitting in my cabinet opened tubs of OG jack3d, muscle marinade, amp (the very first DMAA product), and clearshot. The stuff today is the exact same. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t taken DMAA for 5 years, it will never hit the same as when you first took it. The first time I took
Amp, it was like damn adderall with only two caps at a whopping 25mg. Now 100mg of the same **** is just a nice boost.

Meomorph is pretty damn close to Muscle Marinade which was the strongest DMAA product of its day. Why do you think ex opiate abusers have a super high tolerance after decades of being clean.

As for old ephedra products, the shop business was the Wild West in those days. Half the **** was spoke with god knows what

Huh? Ex opiate users die when they try to use the same amount after being clean. Most of the time That's how they overdose.

 

[Voldyne]

For the last damn time the DMAA is the same. I have sitting in my cabinet opened tubs of OG jack3d, muscle marinade, amp (the very first DMAA product), and clearshot. The stuff today is the exact same. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t taken DMAA for 5 years, it will never hit the same as when you first took it. The first time I took
Amp, it was like damn adderall with only two caps at a whopping 25mg. Now 100mg of the same **** is just a nice boost.

Meomorph is pretty damn close to Muscle Marinade which was the strongest DMAA product of its day. Why do you think ex opiate abusers have a super high tolerance after decades of being clean.

As for old ephedra products, the shop business was the Wild West in those days. Half the **** was spoke with god knows what

This is where the confusion comes into play as many of us did go through some years of not using any DMAA products between when it first came out, and the more current products.

I never experienced a huge increase in tolerance when I used products with DMAA back in the day, though there surely was some. To go back to it many years later and feel nothing, just doesn’t add up to me..

 

[CompeteNPC]

For the last damn time the DMAA is the same. I have sitting in my cabinet opened tubs of OG jack3d, muscle marinade, amp (the very first DMAA product), and clearshot. The stuff today is the exact same. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t taken DMAA for 5 years, it will never hit the same as when you first took it. The first time I took
Amp, it was like damn adderall with only two caps at a whopping 25mg. Now 100mg of the same **** is just a nice boost.

Meomorph is pretty damn close to Muscle Marinade which was the strongest DMAA product of its day. Why do you think ex opiate abusers have a super high tolerance after decades of being clean.

As for old ephedra products, the shop business was the Wild West in those days. Half the **** was spoke with god knows what

There is some new form of ephedra going around in some pre workouts currently. How does that stuff stack up to the ephedra of old?

 

[thebigt]

Huh? Ex opiate users die when they try to use the same amount after being clean. Most of the time That's how they overdose.

I would agree with this...im an alcoholic with 20 years sobriety, it didn't happen 1st try...when I would be sober for months at a time my tolerance went way down when I had a relapse.

if I were to drink today[GOD FORBID]my tolerance would probably be very low based on past experience.

 

[shockrock3]

There is some new form of ephedra going around in some pre workouts currently. How does that stuff stack up to the ephedra of old?

Joke. Sad attempt to recreate something so wonderful. The alkaloids you want are in Bronkaid and Primatine, very simple to acquire. Only takes a few to ruin it for the whole...Ephedra was one

 

[kelvarnsen]

yea, no, not 142mgs a serving, that's insane. You shouldn't recommend false hoods.

I'm not recommending falsehoods, I'm posting a published study that Priceplow.com has footnoted.

 

[CATdiesel76]

Huh? Ex opiate users die when they try to use the same amount after being clean. Most of the time That's how they overdose.

Could be wrong on that. Had one good friend who was an ex opiate abuser and that’s what he told me. Regardless my original point holds true. That the first high can never be duplicated. I think a lot of people were blown away their first DMAA dose and after years of use it doesn’t have the same wow factor even if you have taken a few years off.

That or some products are spiked. All I can say if I’ve been taking DMAA since the very first product was released. It was felt adderall for me when I first took it. Now it’s a small boost. Like I said still have those tubs of tubs of the OG formulas to compare too and there is no difference in my opinion. Who knows, maybe some old **** was spiked but I think if a lot of people on here tried these OGs again they wouldn’t be quite as good as they remember.

 

[dbuckley82]

I don't buy the argument of desensitization. At all. Shame, because DMAA, back when it was referred to as geranimine, was just too good to be true. Insane sunshine through your spirit for about 6 straight hours.

As to the DMAA/DMHA debate, there is one HUGE difference... I get NO crash from DMHA, at all. Whatever comes up, must come down, and the DMAA crash for me was terrible, and if I used it too often, I became irritable as ****. It's too stressing on your dopamine system. DMHA in the long run is much better.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I don't buy the argument of desensitization. At all. Shame, because DMAA, back when it was referred to as geranimine, was just too good to be true. Insane sunshine through your spirit for about 6 straight hours.

As to the DMAA/DMHA debate, there is one HUGE difference... I get NO crash from DMHA, at all. Whatever comes up, must come down, and the DMAA crash for me was terrible, and if I used it too often, I became irritable as ****. It's too stressing on your dopamine system. DMHA in the long run is much better.

Good point. I have obtained a couple bottles of pure DMAA lately, so I can add to my current pwo drink, as needed.

I had used DMAA in the past as part of original Jack3d or mesomorph. The energy is real, crash is too. DMHA is smoother, less crash, but made one of my favorite workout drinks taste horrible /mediciny after they switched to DMHA.

There is still legit DMAA out there via research companies. A sister site of PRE board sponsor, has it. A few others, I can't mention or Admin will nail me.

And I just used a small 30mg dose with my BCAA Energy drink Friday and wow I lifted, packed for travel, cleaned my whole place Friday. Crash happened later, but lay down, eat or shower and was fine.

Real DMAA is still out there, just not in pre workout drinks in USA.

 

[CATdiesel76]

I’d be shocked if Hi-Tech is spending millions fighting the fda to not put the ingredient in their product...

 

[shockrock3]

I’d be shocked if Hi-Tech is spending millions fighting the fda to not put the ingredient in their product...

I wouldn't....srs. 99% is being made synthetically, the whole 1% occurs naturally is their argument that it exists in nature. They...or whoever they hire to make the extract is watering it down to the point where people are barely getting focus related effects. TOO MANY PEOPLE have been complaining about this for a few years now with Hi Tech's DMAA...it's no secret their pre's with DMAA don't hit hard at all, "maybe" Meso but even so, people were complaining that Meso doesn't feel the same.

 

[Voldyne]

I wouldn't....srs. 99% is being made synthetically, the whole 1% occurs naturally is their argument that it exists in nature. They...or whoever they hire to make the extract is watering it down to the point where people are barely getting focus related effects. TOO MANY PEOPLE have been complaining about this for a few years now with Hi Tech's DMAA...it's no secret their pre's with DMAA don't hit hard at all, "maybe" Meso but even so, people were complaining that Meso doesn't feel the same.

I tried one tube of Mesomorph probably 2-3 years ago, and it just made me tired. I eventually just ended up tossing it out. I gave a buddy of mine a sample packet of Mesomorph this past spring. He was new to PWOs and had never touched any stims in his life except for coffee, much less anything with DMAA. He reported back to me that he felt absolutely no stimulation from it...no pump or endurance benefits either. I gave him a sample of RE1GN a few weeks ago and he texted me saying “What the hell was that liquid crack you gave me...I love it!” I sent him a link to a BOGO of that which I think he ordered..

 

[CATdiesel76]

I wouldn't....srs. 99% is being made synthetically, the whole 1% occurs naturally is their argument that it exists in nature. They...or whoever they hire to make the extract is watering it down to the point where people are barely getting focus related effects. TOO MANY PEOPLE have been complaining about this for a few years now with Hi Tech's DMAA...it's no secret their pre's with DMAA don't hit hard at all, "maybe" Meso but even so, people were complaining that Meso doesn't feel the same.

Every single preworkout produced has been made with synthetic DMAA

 

[kelvarnsen]

Every single preworkout produced has been made with synthetic DMAA

This is true. There's no sweat shop in China with 12 year olds squeezing geranium stems.

But the raw suppliers have probably changed over the years from when DMAA was first brought to market by Patrick Arnold. It was probably produced here during that time period whereas it's all produced in China now. And with the whole fiasco of 1,3 and 1,4 being labeled as DMHA the bottom line is we probably have no clue what we're ingesting today.

 

[CATdiesel76]

This is true. There's no sweat shop in China with 12 year olds squeezing geranium stems.

But the raw suppliers have probably changed over the years from when DMAA was first brought to market by Patrick Arnold. It was probably produced here during that time period whereas it's all produced in China now. And with the whole fiasco of 1,3 and 1,4 being labeled as DMHA the bottom line is we probably have no clue what we're ingesting today.

I’m sure. But like I said I have an original bottlle of PAs original amp and I honestly can’t tell a difference In the new stuff

 

[Voldyne]

This is true. There's no sweat shop in China with 12 year olds squeezing geranium stems.

Haha!

I should probably get myself some geraniums..

 

[thebigt]

I’m sure. But like I said I have an original bottlle of PAs original amp and I honestly can’t tell a difference In the new stuff

maybe the og amp has deteriorated with age? just sayin....

 

[jtmass]

I tried one tube of Mesomorph probably 2-3 years ago, and it just made me tired. I eventually just ended up tossing it out. I gave a buddy of mine a sample packet of Mesomorph this past spring. He was new to PWOs and had never touched any stims in his life except for coffee, much less anything with DMAA. He reported back to me that he felt absolutely no stimulation from it...no pump or endurance benefits either. I gave him a sample of RE1GN a few weeks ago and he texted me saying “What the hell was that liquid crack you gave me...I love it!” I sent him a link to a BOGO of that which I think he ordered..

^^^ This was exactly my experience and a few friends of mine who tried Re1gn. I haven't tried the older version of Meso, but just before DMAA got banned again, I got a tub along with Wicked. Tried both, and just got a little surge in workout and obviously these PWOs have nothing in the pump department. But, Re1gn is an awesome PWO.

 

[CATdiesel76]

maybe the og amp has deteriorated with age? just sayin....

Possibly. But it’s been in a freezer and vaccume sealed. Doubt it degraded much. 2 caps is still all I need. 4 gives me
A crazy boost. Nothing whatsoever has changed dosing wise so I doubt it’s any weaker with age. What I can say is that I’ve been taking DMAA since the very first product containing it was released. Meso feels just like any DMAA pre I have taken. I get the same sides, effects, etc. I have premier DMAA and other bulk sources as well. All the same

I think people just either remember it being way better than it was or are like me how the very first time I took it literally felt like an adderall 20XR. Never been the same after a few uses but still awesome.

 

[dbuckley82]

OG amp was one of the best formulas ever. Man do I miss that ****. Perfect.

 

[thebigt]

OG amp was one of the best formulas ever. Man do I miss that ****. Perfect.

I miss PA being around with all his innovations.

 

[CATdiesel76]

PA also was the first to use 2-amino if I’m not mistaken

 

[Darkhorse192]

I hate DMHA, Kraken was the worst Pre I have used...cool for the first 30-45 minutes, then I feel like bag of warm dog dicks

 

[CompeteNPC]

Kraken is overrated in my opinion. Anything out there anyone would recommend? I want a pre that gives good enough focus where you feel 3 hours lasts an hour.

 

[EpicSlaughter]

There is some new form of ephedra going around in some pre workouts currently. How does that stuff stack up to the ephedra of old?

Today's ephemera extracts that are on the market do not contain ephedrine due to legal restrictions. Unfortunately it is definitely not the same stuff. There are a few OTC medications that contain ephedrine, but you have to ask the pharmacist because they're held behind the counter and require government issued identification and signature.