Response to the FDA's recent statements on Kratom

[NeuroTropic]

https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm584970.htm

BS.

 

[mw1]

If its going to be marketed for "medical issues" then it should certainly be regulated ..no much potential for abuse

 

[NeuroTropic]

If its going to be marketed for "medical issues" then it should certainly be regulated ..no much potential for abuse

How something is marketed by 1 or any given company should not determine the class it is. If the FDA/DEA regulate it it's going to be schedule 1 so no one has access to it and that would hurt and end up killing many Americans using it currently. Not a smart plan to take a segment of people who taking it for suffering since nothing else works and tell them their going to jail now where they won't get any help.

As far as potential for abuse cite the human studies that show this is a concern and how much of a concern over coffee or tobacco.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Their whole statement is an egregious affront to science, logic, and honesty. I️ commend you for even being able to read through it enough times to respond to it.

To quote Cesare Beccaria:

False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it

Of course, we know that it’s not any real issues, or even an “inconvenience” that is leading the FDA to act in the way they are, but their own best interests.

 

[NeuroTropic]

So put yourself in this position. You're in severe pain can't use or don't want to use opiates. You've tried all the FDA meds and nothing works. You try kratom and your feeling like yourself for the first time in years. Been taking it for years and your life is drastically better it's how you were able to function and survive. Now the FDA says they don't think you know what's best for you and wants to take away the one thing that has helped you live and function. What do you tell those people? Suffer and die? That is what the FDA is doing.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

So put yourself in this position. You're in severe pain can't use or don't want to use opiates. You've tried all the FDA meds and nothing works. You try kratom and your feeling like yourself for the first time in years. Been taking it for years and your life is drastically better it's how you were able to function and survive. Now the FDA says they don't think you know what's best for you and wants to take away the one thing that has helped you live and function. What do you tell those people? Suffer and die? That is what the FDA is doing.

The most insane thing, when you really take the time to think about it, is that the government is supposed to serve the people. The current situation is the government serving itself. Yes, they are serving the pharmaceutical/drug industry in a way, but they aren’t doing it to be nice to pharma, but because it is in their (the FDA’s) best interest to do so, as they (the government officials) are undoubtedly getting something (money) in return for their service to the industry. The people who elected them, who it is supposed to be their job to serve? They say, or, more importantly, act, in a way that says “screw them,” they aren’t giving us as much in return as the industry is. The unfortunate thing is that we all too often fall for fear-mongering, and agree to give up basic freedoms for a false sense of security; liberty for the pretense of security.

 

[Ricky10]

Uggh....just the latest example of their ongoing hipocracy and self indulgence...

 

[NeuroTropic]

Uggh....just the latest example of their ongoing hipocracy and self indulgence...

I was hoping as a society we would move past criminalizing people solely for their medical or health choices that only effect them. We have a long way to go.

 

[Ricky10]

I was hoping as a society we would move past criminalizing people solely for their medical or health choices that only effect them. We have a long way to go.

The bullying and impingement of civilian rights will continue for as long as the FDA is allowed to operate as the corrupt institution that it is. Unfortunately, I don't see it ever changing and it will probably just get worse.

 

[NeuroTropic]

The most insane thing, when you really take the time to think about it, is that the government is supposed to serve the people. The current situation is the government serving itself. Yes, they are serving the pharmaceutical/drug industry in a way, but they aren’t doing it to be nice to pharma, but because it is in their (the FDA’s) best interest to do so, as they (the government officials) are undoubtedly getting something (money) in return for their service to the industry. The people who elected them, who it is supposed to be their job to serve? They say, or, more importantly, act, in a way that says “screw them,” they aren’t giving us as much in return as the industry is. The unfortunate thing is that we all too often fall for fear-mongering, and agree to give up basic freedoms for a false sense of security; liberty for the pretense of security.

The president went with the wrong choice for FDA commissioner. We had a shot of someone who would have kept thing less regulated and drastically has reduced costs for health care. But we don't care about making medical needs cheaper for sick people.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

So what does this mean for Kratom?

 

[NeuroTropic]

So what does this mean for Kratom?

They are pretty much announcing they are increasing their ban on any kratom coming in, view Kratom as something that needs to be controlled, and believe it being available will make the opiate crisis worse so expect a DEA schedule of 1 soon. I don't see how kratom will stay around without massive organization from users. So get ready to order it from the darknet and learn to use cryto-currencies.

 

[rtmilburn]

They are pretty much announcing they are increasing their ban on any kratom coming in, view Kratom as something that needs to be controlled, and believe it being available will make the opiate crisis worse so expect a DEA schedule of 1 soon. I don't see how kratom will stay around without massive organization from users. So get ready to order it from the darknet and learn to use cryto-currencies.

Seems like to much of a hassle for just kratom. Especially with weed being decriminalized and even legal(depending on location). Weed offers more pain relief by far and does not make me nauseated like kratom does. Not to mention way more fun

 

[NeuroTropic]

Seems like to much of a hassle for just kratom. Especially with weed being decriminalized and even legal(depending on location). Weed offers more pain relief by far does make me nauseated like kratom does. Not to mention way more fun

It's already scheduled in several states but this would effectively shut down all sales in the US to the darknets. To each their own but for people who it helps it should be made available or at the very least a safe alternative.

 

[rowz4broz]

this is terrible

 

[rowz4broz]

from reddit

Let’s talk about the timing on this. The Administration announces a war on opioids. Glaxo Smith Kline owns the patent on the crystallized (manipulated) version of Mitragyna Speciosa. In this patent, it fully describes their scientific testing which shows minimal side effects. In fact Glaxo Smith Kline describes it as being harmless compared to many controlled substances. Now let’s look at the FDA Head, Dr. Scott Gottlieb. Prior to his assignment at the FDA, he sat on several big Pharma boards INCLUDING Glaxo Smith Kline. He is also a member of GSKs “New Product Investment Board”. Americans aren’t dumb. When you look at this in totality, Dr. Gottlieb knows that Kratom isn’t dangerous, he’s seen this GSK patent, so everyone do the math. This is perfect timing for GSK to release their crystallized version of Kratom as a controlled substance and charge hundreds of dollars for a bottle of crystallized Kratom capsules. And look at who is going to benefit from a ban on raw leaf Kratom. The one and only Glaxo Smith Kline AND Dr. Scott Gottlieb.
https://www.google.com/patents/US3256149

 

[rtmilburn]

It's already scheduled in several states but this would effectively shut down all sales in the US to the darknets. To each their own but for people who it helps it should be made available or at the very least a safe alternative.

Oh I definitely agree. I'm just saying if it does become schedule 1 why bother? With weed offering a lot of the same benefits and stronger in nearly every aspect, with weed being decriminalized as well. Now kratom should never become illegal, just the fda standard bullsh!t.

 

[thebigt]

from reddit

Let’s talk about the timing on this. The Administration announces a war on opioids. Glaxo Smith Kline owns the patent on the crystallized (manipulated) version of Mitragyna Speciosa. In this patent, it fully describes their scientific testing which shows minimal side effects. In fact Glaxo Smith Kline describes it as being harmless compared to many controlled substances. Now let’s look at the FDA Head, Dr. Scott Gottlieb. Prior to his assignment at the FDA, he sat on several big Pharma boards INCLUDING Glaxo Smith Kline. He is also a member of GSKs “New Product Investment Board”. Americans aren’t dumb. When you look at this in totality, Dr. Gottlieb knows that Kratom isn’t dangerous, he’s seen this GSK patent, so everyone do the math. This is perfect timing for GSK to release their crystallized version of Kratom as a controlled substance and charge hundreds of dollars for a bottle of crystallized Kratom capsules. And look at who is going to benefit from a ban on raw leaf Kratom. The one and only Glaxo Smith Kline AND Dr. Scott Gottlieb.
https://www.google.com/patents/US3256149

good post...really highlights the hypocrisy!!!

 

[NeuroTropic]

Oh I definitely agree. I'm just saying if it does become schedule 1 why bother? With weed offering a lot of the same benefits and stronger in nearly every aspect,

Cannabis doesn't work for everyone it's why some people need kratom.

 

[ELROCK]

Seems like to much of a hassle for just kratom. Especially with weed being decriminalized and even legal(depending on location). Weed offers more pain relief by far and does not make me nauseated like kratom does. Not to mention way more fun

I️ strongly disagree.

Kratom over cannabis in all areas you listed (for me).

 

[rtmilburn]

Cannabis doesn't work for everyone it's why some people need kratom.

I️ strongly disagree.

Kratom over cannabis in all areas you listed (for me).

It's definitely very individualistic

 

[NeuroTropic]

It's definitely very individualistic

Both the opioid and cannabinoid receptors are involved with pain. Opioids may be better at some types of pain than others. But the underlying thing is we should act together to ensure we have access to anything that may improve our health or lives. Regardless if it effects you directly. We should have access to any chemicals we need to live or function at our best.

 

[kisaj]

Both the opioid and cannabinoid receptors are involved with pain. Opioids may be better at some types of pain than others. But the underlying thing is we should act together to ensure we have access to anything that may improve our health or lives. Regardless if it effects you directly. We should have access to any chemicals we need to live or function at our best.

As a cannabis and kratom consumer I agree and I also agree that they do not have the same effects, so it's not a this or that conversation. It is a "leave us the hell alone" conversation.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

So stock up?

 

[Ricky10]

So when are we thinking this will happen?
Damn, now I have to think about stocking up on Dream-N-Grow, and some Maeng Da. I don't have the money for this right now!

 

[NeuroTropic]

So when are we thinking this will happen?
Damn, now I have to think about stocking up on Dream-N-Grow, and some Maeng Da. I don't have the money for this right now!

FDA could inform the DEA at anytime then the DEA can issue emergency scheduling if it chooses to and enact that within 1-2 months.

 

[Ricky10]

FDA could inform the DEA at anytime then the DEA can issue emergency scheduling if it chooses to and enact that within 1-2 months.

Well at least that assures us some time.

Funny that they would consider 1-2 months to be an emergent response time. Good thing this is nothing that actually is harmful!

 

[NeuroTropic]

Well at least that assures us some time.

Funny that they would consider 1-2 months to be an emergent response time. Good thing this is nothing that actually is harmful!

Hopefully sellers are well stocked if the FDA is increasing it's blocks of kratom shipments you can imagine prices may start to climb very fast.

 

[Ricky10]

Hopefully sellers are well stocked if the FDA is increasing it's blocks of kratom shipments you can imagine prices may start to climb very fast.

Good point there...

 

[USPlabsRep]

from reddit

Let’s talk about the timing on this. The Administration announces a war on opioids. Glaxo Smith Kline owns the patent on the crystallized (manipulated) version of Mitragyna Speciosa. In this patent, it fully describes their scientific testing which shows minimal side effects. In fact Glaxo Smith Kline describes it as being harmless compared to many controlled substances. Now let’s look at the FDA Head, Dr. Scott Gottlieb. Prior to his assignment at the FDA, he sat on several big Pharma boards INCLUDING Glaxo Smith Kline. He is also a member of GSKs “New Product Investment Board”. Americans aren’t dumb. When you look at this in totality, Dr. Gottlieb knows that Kratom isn’t dangerous, he’s seen this GSK patent, so everyone do the math. This is perfect timing for GSK to release their crystallized version of Kratom as a controlled substance and charge hundreds of dollars for a bottle of crystallized Kratom capsules. And look at who is going to benefit from a ban on raw leaf Kratom. The one and only Glaxo Smith Kline AND Dr. Scott Gottlieb.
https://www.google.com/patents/US3256149

Publication number
US3256149 A
Publication type
Grant
Publication date
Jun 14, 1966
Filing date
Aug 12, 1963
Priority date
May 20, 1963
Inventors
Arnold H Beckett, Macko Edward

wouldn't patent be expired by now?

 

[kisaj]

I guess I know what I’m getting myself for Christmas

 

[Duality29]

Well that sucks :/

 

[dsade]

I love that out of one side of his mouth he states that there is no evidence that it interacts with any opiate receptors, but then claims it has caused deaths (by what mechanism), and also states that it's dangerous and must be scheduled.

Well, which is it? Useless and ineffective or effective and dangerous?

 

[NeuroTropic]

I love that out of one side of his mouth he states that there is no evidence that it interacts with any opiate receptors, but then claims it has caused deaths (by what mechanism), and also states that it's dangerous and must be scheduled.

Well, which is it? Useless and ineffective or effective and dangerous?

They like to keep everyone in a limbo of unknowns than quantified and conclusive facts.

Reminds me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N0i3l0TZL4

 

[BCseacow83]

They like to keep everyone in a limbo of unknowns than quantified and conclusive facts.

Reminds me when a DEA official was asked what was more dangerous heroin, meth, etc or cannabis and she froze with ignorance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N0i3l0TZL4

That lady is a complete moron. Here she is again basically saying she can't do anything if DEA agents accept prostitutes from cartels in foreign countries. This is why NO ONE should be for government health care because some dipsh*t like this will make life and death decisions for you and your loved ones.

 

[NeuroTropic]

Good point there...

Also Credit card merchants will probably pull alot of accounts before a scheduling goes through. They don't want to pay fines for being involved with sales of an illegal item. That will probably be the first thing to happen. Have your bitcoins ready guys.

 

[Ricky10]

Also Credit card merchants will probably pull alot of accounts before a scheduling goes through. They don't want to pay fines for being involved with sales of an illegal item. That will probably be the first thing to happen. Have your bitcoins ready guys.

Sons a bytches!

 

[NeuroTropic]

Sons a bytches!

Unrelated you can buy a live kratom plant. https://www.shamansgarden.com/p-422-live-kratom-plant-4-6-inches-tall.aspx

 

[NeuroTropic]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25950592

So harmful.

J Psychoactive Drugs. 2015 Apr-Jun;47(2):125-31. doi: 10.1080/02791072.2015.1012610.
Social Functioning of Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa) Users in Malaysia.


Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa) is an indigenous plant known for its traditional medicinal use, and for its addiction potential, in Southeast Asia. In recent years, kratom and its major alkaloid, mitragynine, spread worldwide with largely unknown effects on behavior and mental health. Recent studies show that kratom use can lead to dependence and that mitragynine works as an addictive drug in animal studies. Nevertheless, kratom preparations were also suggested as a less harmful substitute in opiate withdrawal. Potential side-effects of prolonged kratom use, however, are currently unclear. The aim of this study was to investigate the social functioning of regular kratom users in Malaysia. A cross-sectional survey was carried out in three northern states of Peninsular Malaysia investigating 293 regular kratom consumers using the Addiction Severity Index in a snowball sampling technique. Findings showed that regular kratom users do not experience major impairments in their social functioning, despite being dependent on kratom for prolonged periods. Our findings suggest that chronic kratom administration does not significantly impair social functioning of users in a natural context in Malaysia.