Watch Your Sugar if you Have Gyno

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  1. Keep dodging Jiigzz rebuttal and comments, huh.

    Lol youíre the reason ignorance perpetuates regarding gyno

    Again, *facepalm* to another thread youíve started

    However, Iím #inbefore the plug on your website that carries ďxĒ brand that reduces estrogen and inhibits tissue growth in breast tissue.

    .... brace yourselves, itís coming.
    Psalms 62:1-62:2


  2. Canít we just use some basic level of common sense here? It is clearly nowhere near ďnecessaryĒ to use a SERM and an AI every time we eat carbs to prevent gyno. If this were the case, then almost everyone in the world who eats carbs, which is also pretty much everyone, would have gyno, which clearly isnít the case.

    Assuming no pre-existing gyno, or a history of it, Iíd be more concerned with ďexcessiveĒ carb/sugar (or food in general) intake leading to an increase in fat mass, which will also logically lead to increased fat mass on the chest, which some people may confuse for gyno. Even with that said, I donít think that taking a SERM and AI every time you have carbs, if you are eating too much, is going to prevent you from putting on fat mass.

    Yeah, nutrient timing has some merit, but the biggest factor is clearly how much you eat. If you eat too much, youíll put on fat.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Eric Mar View Post
    I am not missing the point. There isn't much research on gynocomastia since it is a relatively rare condition to treat. I am going to further look into the IGF-1 and Insulin relationship as a means of storing fat and promoting adiposity. There seems to be something here worth exploring and it appears that IGF-1 may potentiate fat growth around the breast.
    So youíre just talking about fat mass on the chest area in general?
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by Eric Mar View Post
    pseudogynocomastia

    ... is just pectoral fat without glandular growth ...

  5. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    So you’re just talking about fat mass on the chest area in general?
    Yes mainly. I don't think many people have true glandular growth it's more fat mass around the nipple. I feel for those guys!
    Nothing I say is medical advice and supplements only enhance and optimize your diet and exercise check with a medical professional before starting any program.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Can’t we just use some basic level of common sense here? It is clearly nowhere near “necessary” to use a SERM and an AI every time we eat carbs to prevent gyno. If this were the case, then almost everyone in the world who eats carbs, which is also pretty much everyone, would have gyno, which clearly isn’t the case.

    Assuming no pre-existing gyno, or a history of it, I’d be more concerned with “excessive” carb/sugar (or food in general) intake leading to an increase in fat mass, which will also logically lead to increased fat mass on the chest, which some people may confuse for gyno. Even with that said, I don’t think that taking a SERM and AI every time you have carbs, if you are eating too much, is going to prevent you from putting on fat mass.

    Yeah, nutrient timing has some merit, but the biggest factor is clearly how much you eat. If you eat too much, you’ll put on fat.
    I disagree, but that's why it's a forum. I think you can basically eat anything you wish if timed properly. Specifically post workout meals being critical and the Summer Fed State opposing the Winter Fed State.
    Nothing I say is medical advice and supplements only enhance and optimize your diet and exercise check with a medical professional before starting any program.
    Try Rise and Swell, the most advanced testosterone booster on the market!
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by Eric Mar View Post
    I disagree, but that's why it's a forum. I think you can basically eat anything you wish if timed properly. Specifically post workout meals being critical and the Summer Fed State opposing the Winter Fed State.
    You disagree with what? That itís not ďnecessaryĒ to use a SERM and AI with carbs? If it was ďnecessaryĒ to prevent gyno, then >99% of the population would have gyno, as very few people use a SERM and AI with carbs chronically.

    Or that total food intake is important? So you can eat 10k calories from ice cream, doughnuts, and cake and every day and not gain weight if you ďtimeĒ it properly? Yes, timing can help, but it canít overrule a caloric surplus or deficit, at least not any significant one. Thatís basic science.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    You disagree with what? That it’s not “necessary” to use a SERM and AI with carbs? If it was “necessary” to prevent gyno, then >99% of the population would have gyno, as very few people use a SERM and AI with carbs chronically.

    Or that total food intake is important? So you can eat 10k calories from ice cream, doughnuts, and cake and every day and not gain weight if you “time” it properly? Yes, timing can help, but it can’t overrule a caloric surplus or deficit, at least not any significant one. That’s basic science.
    Food timing is more critical than most believe, but it's my belief and of course each theory has merit for sure! It's why we are here to discuss our ideas and views on things. I've seen plenty of people eat a ton on Atkins and still lose weight for example!
    Nothing I say is medical advice and supplements only enhance and optimize your diet and exercise check with a medical professional before starting any program.
    Try Rise and Swell, the most advanced testosterone booster on the market!
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Eric Mar View Post
    Food timing is more critical than most believe, but it's my belief and of course each theory has merit for sure! It's why we are here to discuss our ideas and views on things. I've seen plenty of people eat a ton on Atkins and still lose weight for example!
    Yes, timing plays a role, but itís not the only factor, but that much should be obvious.
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  10. Yes, Sir. All we disagree upon is which factor is more important. Again, there is no such thing as the absolute truth in these things. Theories evolve and we learn as a community and a sport.
    Nothing I say is medical advice and supplements only enhance and optimize your diet and exercise check with a medical professional before starting any program.
    Try Rise and Swell, the most advanced testosterone booster on the market!
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by Eric Mar View Post
    Yes, Sir. All we disagree upon is which factor is more important. Again, there is no such thing as the absolute truth in these things. Theories evolve and we learn as a community and a sport.
    We all (including the laws of thermodynamics) disagree with your statement that timing is more important than calories.

    I️ will literally bet my house that you canít eat 2000 extra calories, Post workout, and not gain excess fat.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by booneman77 View Post
    We all (including the laws of thermodynamics) disagree with your statement that timing is more important than calories.

    I️ will literally bet my house that you can’t eat 2000 extra calories, Post workout, and not gain excess fat.
    Believe what you will. I have 25 years of experience in this and I am still learning about the body and how complex it is as an organism.

    Here's the riddle. Why does increased insulin sensitivity cause weight loss?
    Nothing I say is medical advice and supplements only enhance and optimize your diet and exercise check with a medical professional before starting any program.
    Try Rise and Swell, the most advanced testosterone booster on the market!
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by Eric Mar View Post
    Believe what you will. I have 25 years of experience in this and I am still learning about the body and how complex it is as an organism.
    I donít see how you could really argue with his proposition. Keep all variables the same. Keep your training, diet, rest, etc the same, and add in 2000 calories from ice cream cake and tell me that you donít end up gaining weight. Timing canít override this drastic caloric surplus. I just donít see how you can argue that. Perhaps you can get away with more calories if you ďtime them rightĒ than if you donít, but there comes an inevitable point where more calories consumed leads to gaining weight, period.
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    I don’t see how you could really argue with his proposition. Keep all variables the same. Keep your training, diet, rest, etc the same, and add in 2000 calories from ice cream cake and tell me that you don’t end up gaining weight. Timing can’t override this drastic caloric surplus. I just don’t see how you can argue that. Perhaps you can get away with more calories if you “time them right” than if you don’t, but there comes an inevitable point where more calories consumed leads to gaining weight, period.
    I wouldn't argue with anything you said. Not suggesting that you can eat cake and icecream and it's the same as steak for 90% of your day.
    Nothing I say is medical advice and supplements only enhance and optimize your diet and exercise check with a medical professional before starting any program.
    Try Rise and Swell, the most advanced testosterone booster on the market!
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by Eric Mar View Post
    I wouldn't argue with anything you said. Not suggesting that you can eat cake and icecream and it's the same as steak for 90% of your day.
    I️ donít care if you eat 2000 extra cals from steak or chicken or ice cream.

    Calories (and total energy) will win out and you will gain weight.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Product Rep - db77 @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Eric Mar View Post
    Believe what you will. I have 25 years of experience in this and I am still learning about the body and how complex it is as an organism.

    Here's the riddle. Why does increased insulin sensitivity cause weight loss?
    Sensitivity is the amount of insulin needed to keep blood glucose stable. More sensitivity, less insulin. More resistance, more insulin. Higher sensitivity certainly does not promote weight loss, but higher resistance causes quite a few issues health wise.

    In theory less circulating insulin means more AMPK expression as the presence of insulin switches off lipolysis, however on a whole level, a net deficit trumps alterimg any small detail

    It's not really a riddle because it makes sense.
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  17. I rub honey on my nipples.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Nac View Post
    I rub honey on my nipples.
    By this logic per Eric, you will get gyno twice as fast (if predisposed?)
    Psalms 62:1-62:2

  19. Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post
    By this logic per Eric, you will get gyno twice as fast (if predisposed?)
    Im thinking faster, cos I dissolve it in Salvo first.

  20. The original study, as Jiigz points out, is about breast cancer and tumor growth on regard to acquired drug resistance. This actually makes a TON of sense, since PDK is over expressed in cancer cells which increases glycolysis and turns down glucose oxidation. More sugar just allows for more growth. I am not sure, from the abstract, that the study even really proves that the cross talk is really the cause or a by product.

    If you are talking about fat mass around nipples, then you don't need to consider cancer or IGF or anything other than the laws of thermodynamics, as everyone else has pointed out ...eating sugar in excess will make you fat.

    Nutrient timing is way over exaggerated to he honest. It is a small small portion of the equation.

  21. I am vegan

  22. I️ have nipples, Greg. Can you milk, me?
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  23. No, fat mass around the nipple is definitely not just a caloric thing. I know lots of really lean guys that have it and it won't go away. It's not gyno either, they have tried everything to get it to go away.

    Anyway, it's a theory and a good discussion topic.
    Nothing I say is medical advice and supplements only enhance and optimize your diet and exercise check with a medical professional before starting any program.
    Try Rise and Swell, the most advanced testosterone booster on the market!
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    The original study, as Jiigz points out, is about breast cancer and tumor growth on regard to acquired drug resistance. This actually makes a TON of sense, since PDK is over expressed in cancer cells which increases glycolysis and turns down glucose oxidation. More sugar just allows for more growth. I am not sure, from the abstract, that the study even really proves that the cross talk is really the cause or a by product.

    If you are talking about fat mass around nipples, then you don't need to consider cancer or IGF or anything other than the laws of thermodynamics, as everyone else has pointed out ...eating sugar in excess will make you fat.

    Nutrient timing is way over exaggerated to he honest. It is a small small portion of the equation.
    Looks like from other studies that there is cross talk and IGF-1 actually has Ea stimulation effects on its own.
    Nothing I say is medical advice and supplements only enhance and optimize your diet and exercise check with a medical professional before starting any program.
    Try Rise and Swell, the most advanced testosterone booster on the market!
    http://mindandmuscle.net/articles/pr...nd-and-muscle/

  25. Send to
    Breast Dis. 2003;17:105-14.
    Cross talk between estrogen receptor and IGF signaling in normal mammary gland development and breast cancer.

    Thorne C1, Lee AV.
    Author information
    Abstract
    Both estrogen and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-I) are critical for normal mammary gland development, but are also implicated in breast cancer development and progression. Evidence that the signaling pathways utilized by these hormones interact has been shown in normal and tumorigenic cell lines, xenograft models, and breast cancer tissue. Analysis of the mechanism of interaction between estrogen and IGF-I has revealed multiple levels of cross-talk with bi-directional regulation of both pathways. Importantly, this bi-directional regulation is often in a positive manner and the resulting synergism noted between these two potent mitogens may be a critical element in the progression of breast cancer. While targeting of the estrogen receptor has shown success in the prevention and treatment of breast cancer, it is hoped that targeting of the IGF signaling pathway will yield similar beneficial results and that inhibitors of IGF signaling may be particularly useful in combination with current antiestrogen therapies. This review will focus on the evidence indicating cross-talk between estrogen and IGF-I and reveal some of the complex mechanisms that link these important pathways in breast cancer.
    Nothing I say is medical advice and supplements only enhance and optimize your diet and exercise check with a medical professional before starting any program.
    Try Rise and Swell, the most advanced testosterone booster on the market!
    http://mindandmuscle.net/articles/pr...nd-and-muscle/
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