Poor Sleep Lowers Testosterone

EricMM

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Here's what I take before bed each night to help with sleep quality:

1) Melatonin 10mg
2) Glycine or a Glycine containing supplement - 3g

In rare instances when I can't sleep, I take GABA and Phenibut. Both KmeTFO

Make sure you are getting good quality sleep boys. Also, my sleep is RUINED when I take yohimbine and caffeine at the same time. Even if I take them together at 5am, I can't sleep at night.

lol

Am J Mens Health. 2017 Oct 1:1557988317735412. doi: 10.1177/1557988317735412. [Epub ahead of print]
Associations Between Sleep Deprivation and Salivary Testosterone Levels in Male University Students: A Prospective Cohort Study.

Abu-Samak MS1, Mohammad BA1, Abu-Taha MI1, Hasoun LZ1, Awwad SH2.
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Abstract
Sleep deprivation is a common health problem that is growing rapidly worldwide and it is associated with short- and long-term impacts on health. The aim of this study was to detect potential predictors of salivary testosterone (sT) association with sleep deprivation in Arab male university students. In this prospective cohort study, 77 university male students in the age range of 18 to 26 years were divided into two groups, sleep-deprived (SD) participants and non-sleep-deprived (NSD) participants. Sleep deprivation was defined as sleeping less than 5 hr per night. Blood samples and sT were collected from fasting participants to measure serum levels of glucose, lipid profile, leptin, serotonin, sT, and body mass index (BMI) values. The multiple linear correlation model of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), BMI, and serotonin was positively correlated with sT ( r = .977, p < .05) in the SD group. No correlations were identified with sT in the NSD group. In the SD study group, the multiple linear regression model of HDL-C, BMI, and serotonin was significantly influenced by sT ( R² = .955, p < .05). These predictors together explained approximately 96% of the variance in sT levels in the SD study group. No predictive variables for sT were reported in the NSD group. Results indirectly confirmed the presence of a positive association between sT and sleep deprivation in young men. This association is mediated by three factors, HDL-C, BMI, and serum serotonin, which are collectively considered as part of a significant physiological adaptation to sleep deprivation in young men.
 
JCR97

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Here's what I take before bed each night to help with sleep quality:

1) Melatonin 10mg
2) Glycine or a Glycine containing supplement - 3g

In rare instances when I can't sleep, I take GABA and Phenibut. Both KmeTFO

Make sure you are getting good quality sleep boys. Also, my sleep is RUINED when I take yohimbine and caffeine at the same time. Even if I take them together at 5am, I can't sleep at night.

lol

Am J Mens Health. 2017 Oct 1:1557988317735412. doi: 10.1177/1557988317735412. [Epub ahead of print]
Associations Between Sleep Deprivation and Salivary Testosterone Levels in Male University Students: A Prospective Cohort Study.

Abu-Samak MS1, Mohammad BA1, Abu-Taha MI1, Hasoun LZ1, Awwad SH2.
Author information
Abstract
Sleep deprivation is a common health problem that is growing rapidly worldwide and it is associated with short- and long-term impacts on health. The aim of this study was to detect potential predictors of salivary testosterone (sT) association with sleep deprivation in Arab male university students. In this prospective cohort study, 77 university male students in the age range of 18 to 26 years were divided into two groups, sleep-deprived (SD) participants and non-sleep-deprived (NSD) participants. Sleep deprivation was defined as sleeping less than 5 hr per night. Blood samples and sT were collected from fasting participants to measure serum levels of glucose, lipid profile, leptin, serotonin, sT, and body mass index (BMI) values. The multiple linear correlation model of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), BMI, and serotonin was positively correlated with sT ( r = .977, p < .05) in the SD group. No correlations were identified with sT in the NSD group. In the SD study group, the multiple linear regression model of HDL-C, BMI, and serotonin was significantly influenced by sT ( R² = .955, p < .05). These predictors together explained approximately 96% of the variance in sT levels in the SD study group. No predictive variables for sT were reported in the NSD group. Results indirectly confirmed the presence of a positive association between sT and sleep deprivation in young men. This association is mediated by three factors, HDL-C, BMI, and serum serotonin, which are collectively considered as part of a significant physiological adaptation to sleep deprivation in young men.
10mg melatonin is a lot. Most studies recommend less than 5mg. Although it also states that overdosing on melatonin would be very hard to do. Some people have taken 100mg and woke up completely fine. It's just that certain people wake up with a sleep hangover if they go above 5mg.


Very interesting read.
 

EricMM

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10mg melatonin is a lot. Most studies recommend less than 5mg. Although it also states that overdosing on melatonin would be very hard to do. Some people have taken 100mg and woke up completely fine. It's just that certain people wake up with a sleep hangover if they go above 5mg.
.
I will switch between 5 and 10mg depending on the season and how I am feeling. I love melatonin and it seems to have a lot of health benefits for us older dudes.
 

EricMM

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I don't really think ZMA is all that big a deal. Zinc and Magnesium are certainly good for you but they aren't a miracle supplement for sleep quality. I'd stick with Glycine and Melatonin. Maybe thrown in some Phenibut. That always knocks me out.
 
cheftepesh1

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Zma does not do much for me either and I work an ever changing schedule so I can't get a normal pattern.
 
BloodManor

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Zma just gave me a headache
Phenibut made me feel hungover
Melatonin is one of the only things I feel works with no sides
 
rascal14

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Poor sleep causes low Testosterone and low Testosterone can cause poor sleep. What a predicament.. lol
 

mn72661

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High dose transdermal magnesium on carotid and/or tops of feet. Maybe also take a little of a solid form of oral magnesium as well and a little melatonin here and there. Also since im wildly over-caffeinated, which i should obviously change, Ive found taurine to be an especially potent inhibitory agent as well.

The only pure sleeping supplement ive used lately is somnidren gh with the old powder packets you put directly under your tongue and hold. Taste is.......memorable. Very effective when used only a few times a week in my case.
 
Young Gotti

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As a person who is negatively effected by a lot of sleep products such as ZMA and GABA, I just can't use them

I'd stick with melatonin, 5htp, valerian root and super under rated is a glass of chamomile tea
 

mn72661

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As a person who is negatively effected by a lot of sleep products such as ZMA and GABA, I just can't use them

I'd stick with melatonin, 5htp, valerian root and super under rated is a glass of chamomile tea
ZMA used to give me headaches as well, but magnesium only works like a charm. For those who have only usZMA and had a bad experience, I implore you, at least try Magnesium solo. 400-500mg of Magnesium L-Threonate, Glycinate, Amino Acid Chelate, Taurate etc, or any blend of these will shock you. Even Citrate would be better than nothing, just dont bother with Oxide. Start slow and build up (can increase bowel activity if it goes too much at once). Vast majority of the population is Mag deficient anyways.
 
JCR97

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I will switch between 5 and 10mg depending on the season and how I am feeling. I love melatonin and it seems to have a lot of health benefits for us older dudes.
The season? Can you explain this more I'm interested to know what you mean.
 
JCR97

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As a person who is negatively effected by a lot of sleep products such as ZMA and GABA, I just can't use them

I'd stick with melatonin, 5htp, valerian root and super under rated is a glass of chamomile tea
Very true about the tea drink it hot in the winter and cold in the summer it's perfect for a good rest.
 

kisaj

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I love lithium orotate before bed personally. Whatever it is that you need, be it valerian, melatonin, gaba, sleep is HIGHLY underrated for most of what ails us. In fact, any reputable doctor or hormone specialist will work to address sleep issues before putting you on any hormone replacement.
 

jarrellt67

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As a person who is negatively effected by a lot of sleep products such as ZMA and GABA, I just can't use them

I'd stick with melatonin, 5htp, valerian root and super under rated is a glass of chamomile tea
Is it just zma or all magnesium supplements? My sleep actually gets worse the more magnesium I take (tried magnesium taurate, glycinate, malate, l-threonate, etc). Anything more than about 150 mg results in poor sleep and headache (and low mood) upon wakening.
 
Young Gotti

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Is it just zma or all magnesium supplements? My sleep actually gets worse the more magnesium I take (tried magnesium taurate, glycinate, malate, l-threonate, etc). Anything more than about 150 mg results in poor sleep and headache (and low mood) upon wakening.
Ive taken magnesium supplements but only when im sick

I do however love epsom bath and floating....that doesnt have an impact on my sleep that ive noticed
 

jarrellt67

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Ive taken magnesium supplements but only when im sick

I do however love epsom bath and floating....that doesnt have an impact on my sleep that ive noticed
Epsom salt baths (when the kids allow the precious time) are great for relaxing before bed.
 

mn72661

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Is it just zma or all magnesium supplements? My sleep actually gets worse the more magnesium I take (tried magnesium taurate, glycinate, malate, l-threonate, etc). Anything more than about 150 mg results in poor sleep and headache (and low mood) upon wakening.
I wake up a bit groggy, however I'm quite sure that's due to low blood sugar as I take a hefty dose most nights. Never tested it out though. Water and a cup of coffee and I'm ok.

Good forms of magnesium can have a pretty potent detoxifying effect as well. Just speculating. Some.of the functional medicine crowd says hyperactivity or restlessness after taking a decent dose is actually a sign of extreme magnesium deficiency. After a while this would stop. Obviiously that's a little cloudy and can't be confirmed without blood work. Or maybe you're just all topped off on magnesium LOL. To which I envy you. At least there's plenty of other stuff to try out as well. I've noticed over the years some things that worked before (eg Valerian) just don't work quite the same and vice versa.

5htp, l-theanine, and melatonin together I've noticed for me is especially synergistic and doesn't take much.
 
The_Old_Guy

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Poor sleep causes low Testosterone and low Testosterone can cause poor sleep. What a predicament.. lol
I was just going to write that, LOL - It's "Chicken or the Egg" :D

Blue Light Blocking Glasses At Sundown. I'm tellin' ya - best $20 you'll ever spend.
 

EricMM

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Is it just zma or all magnesium supplements? My sleep actually gets worse the more magnesium I take (tried magnesium taurate, glycinate, malate, l-threonate, etc). Anything more than about 150 mg results in poor sleep and headache (and low mood) upon wakening.
That's really odd. I wonder if it lowers blood pressure for you maybe?
 

jarrellt67

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That's really odd. I wonder if it lowers blood pressure for you maybe?
Maybe. Have a very bad reaction if I take it during the daytime too (light-heading, short-tempered/angry, etc).

Anyone have suggestions for a good sleep aid (individual ingredient or formula) without magnesium or anything that affects gaba (theanine, taurine, phenibut, ashwagandha, etc) due to their impact on my mood?
 
bonbon

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My pre-sleep stack includes 1mg melatonin, 350mg magnesium (as citrate), 1tsp ashwagandha, occasionally mucuna/glycine/di-arginine malate. I rarely have any trouble sleeping, but I do have 3-year-old daughter that wakes me up almost every night :)
 
tyga tyga

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My pre-sleep stack includes 1mg melatonin, 350mg magnesium (as citrate), 1tsp ashwagandha, occasionally mucuna/glycine/di-arginine malate. I rarely have any trouble sleeping, but I do have 3-year-old daughter that wakes me up almost every night :)
Understand. Have a two year old daughter that wakes me up every night lol we take similar supplements

3mg melatonin
400mg magnesium
 
cheftepesh1

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Understand. Have a two year old daughter that wakes me up every night lol we take similar supplements

3mg melatonin
400mg magnesium
Mines 5 but I found after a while I just fall back to sleep
 

kisaj

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ZMA worked very well for keeping me asleep, but I always woke up very heavy and groggy. It would take an extra cup or two of coffee to snap out of it.

In order of effectiveness with the least morning side effects for me:
-lithium orotate
-red strain kratom
-KSM66 (600mg)
-phosphatidylserine
-valerian
-gaba
-ZMA
-melatonin
-phenibut
 

jarrellt67

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ZMA worked very well for keeping me asleep, but I always woke up very heavy and groggy. It would take an extra cup or two of coffee to snap out of it.

In order of effectiveness with the least morning side effects for me:
-lithium orotate
-red strain kratom
-KSM66 (600mg)
-phosphatidylserine
-valerian
-gaba
-ZMA
-melatonin
-phenibut
Totally agree about lithium orotate and red bali kratom. Only issue I've had with lithium is having to get up and pee multiple times throughout the night (seems to dehydrate me pretty bad). Have tried all the others you list too (with limited to no success) except for phosphatidylserine. Is there a particular brand/dosage you'd recommend?
 

kisaj

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Totally agree about lithium orotate and red bali kratom. Only issue I've had with lithium is having to get up and pee multiple times throughout the night (seems to dehydrate me pretty bad). Have tried all the others you list too (with limited to no success) except for phosphatidylserine. Is there a particular brand/dosage you'd recommend?
PS tends to be expensive, so it is somewhat prohibitive. I personally have good results around 400mg, and no particular brand has stood out to me. However, Oly Labs had a product called Vitality that had it in it at that dose and they used to have sales of this for really cheap. Not sure if it is still available.
 

jarrellt67

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PS tends to be expensive, so it is somewhat prohibitive. I personally have good results around 400mg, and no particular brand has stood out to me. However, Oly Labs had a product called Vitality that had it in it at that dose and they used to have sales of this for really cheap. Not sure if it is still available.
Thanks man. Appreciate the info. If it helps me get more than 3-6 hours of sleep each night, then it would be worth the cost.
 

kisaj

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An added benefit and why most people take it is that its proven to lower cortisol.
 
kenpoengineer

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Anyone have bloodwork on these magnesium supplements? I’ve been consistently low at around 2 mg/dl supplementing 150 mg magnesium bisglycinate.

IMG_4158.jpg
 
dds

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10mg melatonin is a lot. Most studies recommend less than 5mg. Although it also states that overdosing on melatonin would be very hard to do. Some people have taken 100mg and woke up completely fine. It's just that certain people wake up with a sleep hangover if they go above 5mg.


Very interesting read.
I take one 10mg melatonin along with 400mg of mag. and sleep real good atnight....but i also weigh 310ish or so
 

mn72661

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Anyone have bloodwork on these magnesium supplements? I’ve been consistently low at around 2 mg/dl supplementing 150 mg magnesium bisglycinate.

View attachment 157119
150mg even of bisglycinate is very low. Unless there is something else youre taking with significant amounts of decent form magnesium in it, I would increase that to a MINIMUM of 500mg a day. Frankly Id shoot for 1,000mg TOTAL for a while if youre actually trying to build levels
 

EricMM

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Seems like it doesn't really matter. You can use the cheap oxide and it works pretty well. I live on Glycine. I enjoy it.
 

jarrellt67

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PS tends to be expensive, so it is somewhat prohibitive. I personally have good results around 400mg, and no particular brand has stood out to me. However, Oly Labs had a product called Vitality that had it in it at that dose and they used to have sales of this for really cheap. Not sure if it is still available.
Man, thanks for the PS recommendation. I finally got around to buying it recently and it's been great for helping me sleep. So far, I've taken 200 mg before bed but might try more to see how it compares. Did you only take it before bed or is there any benefit to taking 100-200 mg spread throughout the day and another 100-200 mg right before bed?
 

kisaj

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I see no reason you couldn't spread it throughout the day, it doesn't cause any drowsiness, but it really just helps to keep things "level" feeling. Partially due to lowering cortisol levels. I cannot be certain, but I personally believe that it has played a role in my ability to recover very quickly when really pushing myself physically and keeping lean.

I take 200mg in the a.m. and 200-400 in the evening.
 
Ape McGrapes

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Melatonin = Eh, I'm not sure it is doing anything.

Benadryl = Sometimes works miracles. Other times it does nothing to help.

Phenibut = Little to nothing for sleep, but > 1000mg gives a nice buzz. Hangovers are common.

MK677 = Best consistent sleep I've ever had.

Velarian, Gaba, Camomile, Magnesium, etc = Mostly useless.

Waking up early(<6:00am) and putting in a hard/good days work = Usually works well most of the time.
 
Cheeky Monkey

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Is there any supplement that can make 5 hours of sleep feel like 8 hours of sleep? Getting to bed early is sadly out of the question because of family/work/chores/other obligations etc.
 

bosskardo

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Is there any supplement that can make 5 hours of sleep feel like 8 hours of sleep? Getting to bed early is sadly out of the question because of family/work/chores/other obligations etc.
No
But some supplements do improve sleep efficiency:
Huperzine a, I've heard some crazy talk that it makes 6h feel like 8h but at least not for me. Helps a little, I pop 50 or 100ug when I know I'll get 7h or less. Not good for constant use.
Glycine and valerian should help a little.
Also, completelly dark bedroom and low room temp.

Edit
I forgot my staples:
Magnesium
Ashwagandha

Melatonin comes up too but most agree it won't help with efficiency, only helps to fall asleep.

Edit2
Ornithine is supposed to help too but haven't tried in high enough dose.
 

kisaj

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Is there any supplement that can make 5 hours of sleep feel like 8 hours of sleep? Getting to bed early is sadly out of the question because of family/work/chores/other obligations etc.
Rhodiola and lithium both have this ability I have found.
 
John Smeton

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As people who are in the gym, and most of us more intense than others, good deep sleep is required. Lack of sleep can cause testosterone to drop as much as forty percent. For people like myself on testosterone replacement I still feel good sleep is necessary for all hormones.
 

bosskardo

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Rhodiola and lithium both have this ability I have found.
Interested. First time hearing this about either. Do you have studies (or articles to link)? Would be interested in it.
 

bosskardo

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As people who are in the gym, and most of us more intense than others, good deep sleep is required. Lack of sleep can cause testosterone to drop as much as forty percent. For people like myself on testosterone replacement I still feel good sleep is necessary for all hormones.
Sleep time can be reduced if you increase quality. But you are mostly right, 3h decrease like op wants seems impossible.
 

bb333

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The ones I tried and worked.

1. 1gr agmatina
2. Camomilla tisana
3. Zma
 

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