Gaspari Anavite found with 1-Andro??

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    They don't even have their lab tests at the end as an addendum?

    Great lawyer this guy has...lol
    USADA doesn't provide any evidence either unfortunately. Nothing about any of this makes sense to me
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager


  2. Well, if I was gonna "spike a multi" (lol) it wouldnt be with a compound that might negatively impact health markers and hormones.

    Whats the biggest placebo people claim from starting a multi? Feeling energetic and "good". Damn, if Im gonna take risks spiking my sh1t Id be loading it with uppers lol
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    USADA doesn't provide any evidence either unfortunately. Nothing about any of this makes sense to me
    The fact that TMZ jumped in on it doesnít help either. 10,000 people who donít understand a thing about supplements are going to say multivitamins arenít safe anymore.

    The same thing happened with creatine. Just plain scare mongering like 99.9% of other media outlets. Negativity sells ad space
    Instagram @TheSwoleNurse - www.YouTube.com/TheSwoleNurse

  4. Quote Originally Posted by NurseGray View Post
    The fact that TMZ jumped in on it doesn’t help either. 10,000 people who don’t understand a thing about supplements are going to say multivitamins aren’t safe anymore.

    The same thing happened with creatine. Just plain scare mongering like 99.9% of other media outlets. Negativity sells ad space
    Agreed. I've used for years and the fact that they haven't looked further into it before breaking the story. Chances are its trace if anything and most likely one batch.
    Mind and Muscle Code AM10 WWW.mindandmuscle.com
    Muscle Research Code AM10 www.mrsupps.com

  5. I actually work for vitamin shoppe and they made us pull all of our anavite immediately this morning. We only had 1 bottle in our store but damn did I want to take it

    This whole thing doesn't make sense to me. I know Gaspari has had some shady things happen in the past, but especially with hi tech manufacturing for them, I would trust their word that there is more to this story. Us managers weren't told too much in the emails sent out to our stores, so I'll be interested to see what they release to us as this plays out
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by TyMan14 View Post
    I actually work for vitamin shoppe and they made us pull all of our anavite immediately this morning. We only had 1 bottle in our store but damn did I want to take it

    This whole thing doesn't make sense to me. I know Gaspari has had some shady things happen in the past, but especially with hi tech manufacturing for them, I would trust their word that there is more to this story. Us managers weren't told too much in the emails sent out to our stores, so I'll be interested to see what they release to us as this plays out
    Has something like this happened before?

  7. It's a strange situation. I don't know that PPM would show up on a drug test or a GMASS test unless the column is very clean and there is no contamination.
    Nothing I say is medical advice and supplements only enhance and optimize your diet and exercise check with a medical professional before starting any program.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by GottiStatus View Post
    Has something like this happened before?
    I've only been working there since April, but it's the first time this has happened

  9. Sounds like the guy was using other stuff and knew gaspari was a big brand he can target and maybe get a lawsuit

  10. Quote Originally Posted by jaredmus View Post
    Sounds like the guy was using other stuff and knew gaspari was a big brand he can target and maybe get a lawsuit
    The lawsuit is also against Jared and Hi-Tech.

    No law firm is going to sign off on a complaint without doing background research on their target, and they would obviously know that jared is a legal pitbull before filing this suit.

    The notion of hi-tech intentionally spiking anavite is absolutely absurd. The notion of trace contamination less so.

    But without knowing actual numbers alleged on his drug test, or alleged contamination of anavite, nobody but the people in possession of that data could tell you if it's likely to have caused a drug test failure or not.

    To be clear though, trace contamination is frankly somewhat of a manufacturing inevitability, and when dealing with ingredients like this that aren't allergens, poses basically no physical impact whatsoever and is of zero concern to anybody who isn't drug tested.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    The lawsuit is also against Jared and Hi-Tech.

    No law firm is going to sign off on a complaint without doing background research on their target, and they would obviously know that jared is a legal pitbull before filing this suit.

    The notion of hi-tech intentionally spiking anavite is absolutely absurd. The notion of trace contamination less so.

    But without knowing actual numbers alleged on his drug test, or alleged contamination of anavite, nobody but the people in possession of that data could tell you if it's likely to have caused a drug test failure or not.

    To be clear though, trace contamination is frankly somewhat of a manufacturing inevitability, and when dealing with ingredients like this that aren't allergens, poses basically no physical impact whatsoever and is of zero concern to anybody who isn't drug tested.
    We also have to remember that it really doesnít matter if they did research on Jared or not. Lawyers get paid In legal fees and I guarantee this one is collecting as we speak. You will always find a lawyer signing up no matter how absurd a case may be
    Instagram @TheSwoleNurse - www.YouTube.com/TheSwoleNurse

  12. Quote Originally Posted by NurseGray View Post
    We also have to remember that it really doesn’t matter if they did research on Jared or not. Lawyers get paid In legal fees and I guarantee this one is collecting as we speak. You will always find a lawyer signing up no matter how absurd a case may be
    Your understanding of lawyers is flawed.

    Lawyers don't like losing.

    Lawyers like having a good rapport with their local court system.

    Lawyers don't like bringing cases in front of judges in their home district that are absurd.

    There are times that corporate lawyers will do legal actions they know are long shots or absurd, but usually there is other extraneous reasons for doing so, or they're being front-paid to draw out legal processes.

    Follow more real life cases and less tv legal dramas

    --

    This random MMA fighter isn't some well financially backed superstar, it's very unlikely he's front paying a lawyer to bring an absurd case to the table.

    So while I question the merits of the case, I don't doubt that they believe they have merits for bringing the case.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Your understanding of lawyers is flawed.

    Lawyers don't like losing.

    Lawyers like having a good rapport with their local court system.

    Lawyers don't like bringing cases in front of judges in their home district that are absurd.

    There are times that corporate lawyers will do legal actions they know are long shots or absurd, but usually there is other extraneous reasons for doing so, or they're being front-paid to draw out legal processes.

    Follow more real life cases and less tv legal dramas

    --

    This random MMA fighter isn't some well financially backed superstar, it's very unlikely he's front paying a lawyer to bring an absurd case to the table.

    So while I question the merits of the case, I don't doubt that they believe they have merits for bringing the case.
    While my knowledge of law may be limited. Iím purely speaking experience from a local level. As well I can only imagine that not EVERY lawyer cares about their image. Iím sure you are right. All lawyers only take cases they think they can win and we all know with Jaredís track record thatís an easy task wink wink
    Instagram @TheSwoleNurse - www.YouTube.com/TheSwoleNurse

  14. Conspiracy theory here, thinking out loud....hi tech pulled there prohormones because the government is claiming it is spiked with AS...what if the FDA had a spy at hi tech who was actively contaminating there products?!

  15. Quote Originally Posted by bashar View Post
    Conspiracy theory here, thinking out loud....hi tech pulled there prohormones because the government is claiming it is spiked with AS...what if the FDA had a spy at hi tech who was actively contaminating there products?!
    okay alex jones
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    okay alex jones
    I feel like I'm in a minority that really enjoys infowars. I think alex has a tendency to blow things up, but his other reporters are fantastic

  17. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    The lawsuit is also against Jared and Hi-Tech.

    No law firm is going to sign off on a complaint without doing background research on their target, and they would obviously know that jared is a legal pitbull before filing this suit.

    The notion of hi-tech intentionally spiking anavite is absolutely absurd. The notion of trace contamination less so.

    But without knowing actual numbers alleged on his drug test, or alleged contamination of anavite, nobody but the people in possession of that data could tell you if it's likely to have caused a drug test failure or not.

    To be clear though, trace contamination is frankly somewhat of a manufacturing inevitability, and when dealing with ingredients like this that aren't allergens, poses basically no physical impact whatsoever and is of zero concern to anybody who isn't drug tested.
    Trace contamination of prohormones should not be shrugged off as a "manufacturing inevitably." And to say it is of "zero concern to anybody who isn't drug tested" doesn't make it much better.

    You guys are a little too easy going on these companies I think. If it is enough that you could test positive then it's too much. It's especially too much if it doesn't indicate on the label that it could have trace amounts of PH in it.

    It may be a pain in the ass but if this is true then this is a serious operational risk that needs to either be dealt with in the manufacturing process or by some way of a disclaimer.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by 210LBS View Post
    Trace contamination of prohormones should not be shrugged off as a "manufacturing inevitably." And to say it is of "zero concern to anybody who isn't drug tested" doesn't make it much better.

    You guys are a little too easy going on these companies I think. If it is enough that you could test positive then it's too much. It's especially too much if it doesn't indicate on the label that it could have trace amounts of PH in it.

    It may be a pain in the ass but if this is true then this is a serious operational risk that needs to either be dealt with in the manufacturing process or by some way of a disclaimer.
    If you think I softball supp companies, you haven't been around long.

    My statements are accurate, that the subject happens to be prohormones is irrelevant.

    PIESI can detect sub-1 parts per TRILLION of some substances.

    You're talking femtograms of contamination.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by 210LBS View Post
    Trace contamination of prohormones should not be shrugged off as a "manufacturing inevitably." And to say it is of "zero concern to anybody who isn't drug tested" doesn't make it much better.

    You guys are a little too easy going on these companies I think. If it is enough that you could test positive then it's too much. It's especially too much if it doesn't indicate on the label that it could have trace amounts of PH in it.

    It may be a pain in the ass but if this is true then this is a serious operational risk that needs to either be dealt with in the manufacturing process or by some way of a disclaimer.
    Yup.

    It's not like Anavite was just randomly tested. it was tested because the fighter failed the drug test and then turned in the supplements he was taking at the time, and they found it to be contaminated by the drug that he failed the test for. and then they tested another bottle of it, and found that to be contaminated as well...

    'Lyman Good was suspended for six months back in late 2016 after testing positive for the anabolic androgenic steroid 1-androstenedione (1-andro) and its metabolite, which was allegedly caused by a tainted Gaspari Nutrition supplement called Anavite.

    The supplement Good took, which did not list 1-androstenedione on the label, was confirmed as containing a banned substance by USADA. USADA also tested an unopened batch of the supplement to verify the contamination. Independent testing by LGC Science, Inc. also confirmed the presence of 1-andro"

    https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2017/10/...vitamin-shoppe

  20. Quote Originally Posted by CatSnake View Post
    Yup.

    It's not like Anavite was just randomly tested. it was tested because the fighter failed the drug test and then turned in the supplements he was taking at the time, and they found it to be contaminated by the drug that he failed the test for. and then they tested another bottle of it, and found that to be contaminated as well...

    'Lyman Good was suspended for six months back in late 2016 after testing positive for the anabolic androgenic steroid 1-androstenedione (1-andro) and its metabolite, which was allegedly caused by a tainted Gaspari Nutrition supplement called Anavite.

    The supplement Good took, which did not list 1-androstenedione on the label, was confirmed as containing a banned substance by USADA. USADA also tested an unopened batch of the supplement to verify the contamination. Independent testing by LGC Science, Inc. also confirmed the presence of 1-andro"

    https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2017/10/...vitamin-shoppe
    And yet, the levels of 1-dhea that can be detected are a million times lower than a dose that would have any detectable physical impact on someone.

    Which is why knowing what exact levels they detected is relevant.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    And yet, the levels of 1-dhea that can be detected are a million times lower than a dose that would have any detectable physical impact on someone.
    are you talking about the amount that he failed the test for, or they can test in the actual supplement for?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by CatSnake View Post
    are you talking about the amount that he failed the test for, or they can test in the supplement for?
    Either.

    Any non-zero result of a banned substance is a failed USADA test.

    The test on him could potentially detect down to single digit picograms in circulation.

    The test on the product itself could detect single digit PPT of contamination.

    Here's something I could see them doing:

    -Which companies manufacture the ingredient we tested for
    -Test every single product they sell for it with the ACS's PIESI testing.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Either.

    Any non-zero result of a banned substance is a failed USADA test.

    The test on him could potentially detect down to single digit picograms in circulation.

    The test on the product itself could detect single digit PPT of contamination.

    Here's something I could see them doing:

    -Which companies manufacture the ingredient we tested for
    -Test every single product they sell for it with the ACS's PIESI testing.
    do you genuinely believe that they use that accurate of a test for 1-DHEA on the athletes on a urine test? not being sarcastic...

    how do you know the accuracy of those tests, out of curiosity?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by CatSnake View Post
    do you genuinely believe that they use that accurate of a test for 1-DHEA on the athletes? not being sarcastic...

    The technology was there years ago, and developed specifically for sports doping, since sports doping is the place where that's most useful.

    As for which test was used, couldn't tell you, the data wasn't included in the complaint. I assume Hi-Tech will demand it in discovery.

    It's useful in sports testing to know if someone took 1-dhea a year ago.

    For comparison, it's not useful in probation drug testing to know if someone might have taken meth a year ago. You care if they took it in the month they've been out of prison.


    how do you know the accuracy of those tests, out of curiosity?
    I'm a nerd with a significant interest in both the law and in supplements/steroids/PEDs.

    Anyway, without the tests in question, nobody can make any real judgement here. I would assume they were withheld for a reason. If they had detected a significant quantity of 1-dhea in anavite they'd have said so.
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    If you think I softball supp companies, you haven't been around long.

    My statements are accurate, that the subject happens to be prohormones is irrelevant.

    PIESI can detect sub-1 parts per TRILLION of some substances.

    You're talking femtograms of contamination.
    It would be hard to believe that their urine tests would pick up ingestion of trace amounts of 1-andro since the urine tests for marijuana are nowhere near that sensitive, but I can be wrong. Either way, Gaspari is still on the hook. It is still their fault and they should still be liable. You have no choice but to suspend the athlete and the athlete would have no idea he's buying a supplement that is contaminated with PHs. If the athlete did nothing wrong then someone has to be on the hook for the money he lost. The only thing I can think of is if Gaspari would have put some sort of disclaimer that states that their products may contain trace amounts of PH, therefore athletes would know to stay away. Without that disclaimer I'm not sure how they'd be able to get around this one.

    I didn't even know they tested for 1-andro. I always thought that they just did hormone tests or something to see if test levels were abnormally high or something. This is news to me.
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