ALR Humapro

[Hack75]

Looking for thoughts on ALR Humapro. Anyone tried?

Specifically the sweet tea flavor.

 

[MARK_]

Looking for thoughts on ALR Humapro. Anyone tried?

Specifically the sweet tea flavor.

I love Humapro! The Southern Sweet Tea is one of my new favorites. I use it everyday. There are logs here somewhere for it.

 

[FireRescue]

I agree. Sweet Tea is an awesome flavor.

 

[ManimalPatB]

I like it, I feel like it is very useful if you are A. On a cut B. Are lactose / whey intolerant

The flavoring on a lot of them are fantastic, Sour Green Apple is my top flavor, followed by Sweat Tea and then Rocket Pop

It allows me to get in some extra protein while watching my calorie count

 

[cheftepesh1]

This product has some great promise as it is very low in calorie for the 25g in protein it is supposed to be able to deliver. The flavors like apple that I have tried are very good.

 

[De__eB]

I disappear for a year and we're shilling humapro here now?

It's 5gs of amino acids.

There is no magic ratio.

There is no magic bioavailability.

Plz stahp.

There's like 20 other better protein/amino acid products in the Hi-Tech ecosystem that aren't hilariously overpriced for what they are.

 

[Young Gotti]

Never had the sweet tea flavor....but i use humapro basically every morning...its been in my aresenal for awhile now

 

[ManimalPatB]

Never had the sweet tea flavor....but i use humapro basically every morning...its been in my aresenal for awhile now

The Sweat Tea is very refreshing!!!! I give it two thumbs WAY UP!!!!!!!!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I disappear for a year and we're shilling humapro here now?

It's 5gs of amino acids.

There is no magic ratio.

There is no magic bioavailability.

Plz stahp.

There's like 20 other better protein/amino acid products in the Hi-Tech ecosystem that aren't hilariously overpriced for what they are.

It looks like an EAA product to me? EAAs are nice, but I would also like to know how it's any different than any other EAA supplement (besides the bitter melon and green coffee bean). I mean, I guess that EAAs (with high leucine content) can stimulate MPS to a similar degree as a higher amount (in grams) of a "whole" protein source, but that should be applicable to just about any EAA blend.

 

[compan]

Sweet tea flavor is amazing. I actually mix mine with Lemon Glycofuse for an Arnold Palmer as an intra.

 

[Young Gotti]

The Sweat Tea is very refreshing!!!! I give it two thumbs WAY UP!!!!!!!!

my address is...

 

[Young Gotti]

The Sweat Tea is very refreshing!!!! I give it two thumbs WAY UP!!!!!!!!

my address is...

 

[EricMM]

I completely disagree. of course working for Hi-Tech I am biased, but I think singular amino acids are utilized differently from peptides and HumaPro may indeed have some benefit over peptide based formulas and protein.

One need only look at Creatine to see the obvious benefits over eating the same creatine content in red meat. My theory is that the body sees a free form amino acid as a natural signaling molecule opposed to a peptide. This is why using small amounts of L-Carnitine for example or L-Theanine have a vastly different effect than their food based equivalents.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I completely disagree. of course working for Hi-Tech I am biased, but I think singular amino acids are utilized differently from peptides and HumaPro may indeed have some benefit over peptide based formulas and protein.

One need only look at Creatine to see the obvious benefits over eating the same creatine content in red meat. My theory is that the body sees a free form amino acid as a natural signaling molecule opposed to a peptide. This is why using small amounts of L-Carnitine for example or L-Theanine have a vastly different effect than their food based equivalents.

Even if we take your claims to be true, which I am not saying they are, just for the sake of continuing the discussion, what then makes HumaPro different from any other EAA supplement?

Now, to address your point about comparing the "singular" amino acids to protein or peptides, we actually do have research on various protein/amino sources and their effects on things like MPS. Realistically, there is a maximal level/peak/plateau to which you can stimulate MPS, and that dose can be reasonably obtained from a protein source, peptides, or EAAs with sufficient leucine content. You can't increase MPS more than this, you can only try to get to this point with less calories/fat/etc, which it seems HumaPro aims to do. Of course, something like EAAs (with high leucine content) or even WPH/peptides (with added leucine) can stimulate MPS to the same degree as intact/while protein sources with significantly less calories, and are also easier/lighter on the stomach and faster absorbed/used than Whole Foods, making them ideal for intra-workout use. There are also instances where "whole" Whey has been more effective than isolated EAAs at the same amount as present in the Whey (this was not in the context of peri-workout use, where EAA/WPH really shines). Conversely, there are studies where something "quicker" like WPH was superior to Whey isolate in recovery of peak torque post exercise, and also greater increases in skeletal muscle glycogen levels.

Basically, EAA/WPH with high leucine content can be preferable to whole protein sources in the context of intra/peri-workout use, and can stimulate MPS to the same (maximal) degree as whole protein sources, and can therefore be useful ways to keep MPS high and calories low, but that still doesn't explain what makes HumaPro different than any other EAA supplement. Also, does it have 3+ grams of leucine? You really want at least 3g leucine to maximize MPS.

Summary
EAAs (and, since you mentioned it, WPH/peptides) can stimulate MPS to the same (maximal) degree as a "whole" protein source like why, chicken, etc, and can do this with less calories. EAAs (with high leucine content) would likely be the least calories, as it's only the EAAs and nothing else), but you can still get that same high/ideal MPS from something like WPH with probably 20-25 calories by using a low/suboptimal dose and supplementing additional leucine to 3-5g (again, you brought up the peptides, not me). Also, the quick utilization of EAAs as opposed to intact proteins makes them appealing for intra/peri-workout use (the same thing can also apply to WPH/di/tri-peptides), and it's also "lighter/easier" on the stomach, which is great for when you're working out and don't want a full/bloated stomach. That said, isn't HumaPro basically an EAA product? There's nothing wrong with that by any means, EAAs are great, better than BCAAs according to a lot of research, but lets be realistic about what it is and what to expect from it (i.e. no "magic").

 

[De__eB]

I completely disagree. of course working for Hi-Tech I am biased, but I think singular amino acids are utilized differently from peptides and HumaPro may indeed have some benefit over peptide based formulas and protein.

One need only look at Creatine to see the obvious benefits over eating the same creatine content in red meat. My theory is that the body sees a free form amino acid as a natural signaling molecule opposed to a peptide. This is why using small amounts of L-Carnitine for example or L-Theanine have a vastly different effect than their food based equivalents.

I mean, I love steaks, but I'm not sure I could stomach the 22.5 ounces of lean beef per day I'd have to eat to get my creatine needs.

Ditto the 4 lbs to get a gram of carnitine

On the other hand, amino acids are abundantly available through food and or protein supplements.

That's a nice false equivalence though.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I mean, I love steaks, but I'm not sure I could stomach the 22.5 ounces of lean beef per day I'd have to eat to get my creatine needs.

On the other hand, amino acids are abundantly available through food and or protein supplements.

That's a nice false equivalence though.

I don't even know what he's talking about with the creatine topic. Is he trying to say that creatine obtained via foods (meat) is inferior to taking creatine monohydrate (matched to the same creatine content)? I completely agree that it's not always feasible (macros, cost, etc) to obtain that much creatine from foods, but that doesn't mean that creatine found in foods is ineffective. Clearly creatine obtained via food does have beneficial effects and is absorbed/bioavailable, as vegetarians have lower creatine levels, people who eat large amounts of foods high in creatine (meats) have higher creatine levels than people who don't, and people who eat more creatine-containing foods also notice less increase in muscle storage of creatine from creatine supplementation compared to people who eat less, as they already have higher levels to begin with, and can't be increased to the same degree (even if they end up at the same level after supplementation). Long story short, if anything, this creatine comparison supports my previous claim that the benefit here (as is the case with creatine) isn't really so much superiority per se, but the ability to get the same effects with a "smaller dose" that has less calories/macros/etc, and is also likely more affordable.

 

[criticalbench]

OP, I use the tablets. I find them quick, easy, and convenient at random times of the day to take when I am busy.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I wonder what Stu Phillips would say....

 

[Young Gotti]

OP, I use the tablets. I find them quick, easy, and convenient at random times of the day to take when I am busy.

the tablets are solid, I've used them in the past when on the run or with a crappy meal out.....currently use aminomax 8000 by gaspari, always keep them nearby......your wife takes you shopping and your forced to eat something like a Panera bread or something, pop some of them to supplement the protein content of the meal

 

[EricMM]

No, I don't believe that it is quite that simple. Not to take away from the benefits of peptide based proteins, but I think a spread of singular amino acids has a function and a place that is unlike their bound counterparts. When we look at the vast benefits that are produced by singular amino acids, I think that something like HumaPro does a different job that the whole food, even when hydrolyzed.

So, I am not disagreeing that whole foods, and hydrolyzed proteins have their place, it is simply my contention that a singular amino acid based formula has a different effect on composition. The study is interesting but likely the addition of the bitter melon had something to do with the benefits, but as I said, I believe that a mix of singular amino acids has a place in bodybuilding and it's not as a building block to muscle. I think for that food is as good or better, but I believe that the synergy of a broad spectrum amino acid product has benefits and effects that are different.

 

[VaughnTrue]

I disappear for a year and we're shilling humapro here now?

It's 5gs of amino acids.

There is no magic ratio.

There is no magic bioavailability.

Plz stahp.

There's like 20 other better protein/amino acid products in the Hi-Tech ecosystem that aren't hilariously overpriced for what they are.

Even if we take your claims to be true, which I am not saying they are, just for the sake of continuing the discussion, what then makes HumaPro different from any other EAA supplement?

Now, to address your point about comparing the "singular" amino acids to protein or peptides, we actually do have research on various protein/amino sources and their effects on things like MPS. Realistically, there is a maximal level/peak/plateau to which you can stimulate MPS, and that dose can be reasonably obtained from a protein source, peptides, or EAAs with sufficient leucine content. You can't increase MPS more than this, you can only try to get to this point with less calories/fat/etc, which it seems HumaPro aims to do. Of course, something like EAAs (with high leucine content) or even WPH/peptides (with added leucine) can stimulate MPS to the same degree as intact/while protein sources with significantly less calories, and are also easier/lighter on the stomach and faster absorbed/used than Whole Foods, making them ideal for intra-workout use. There are also instances where "whole" Whey has been more effective than isolated EAAs at the same amount as present in the Whey (this was not in the context of peri-workout use, where EAA/WPH really shines). Conversely, there are studies where something "quicker" like WPH was superior to Whey isolate in recovery of peak torque post exercise, and also greater increases in skeletal muscle glycogen levels.

Basically, EAA/WPH with high leucine content can be preferable to whole protein sources in the context of intra/peri-workout use, and can stimulate MPS to the same (maximal) degree as whole protein sources, and can therefore be useful ways to keep MPS high and calories low, but that still doesn't explain what makes HumaPro different than any other EAA supplement. Also, does it have 3+ grams of leucine? You really want at least 3g leucine to maximize MPS.

Summary
EAAs (and, since you mentioned it, WPH/peptides) can stimulate MPS to the same (maximal) degree as a "whole" protein source like why, chicken, etc, and can do this with less calories. EAAs (with high leucine content) would likely be the least calories, as it's only the EAAs and nothing else), but you can still get that same high/ideal MPS from something like WPH with probably 20-25 calories by using a low/suboptimal dose and supplementing additional leucine to 3-5g (again, you brought up the peptides, not me). Also, the quick utilization of EAAs as opposed to intact proteins makes them appealing for intra/peri-workout use (the same thing can also apply to WPH/di/tri-peptides), and it's also "lighter/easier" on the stomach, which is great for when you're working out and don't want a full/bloated stomach. That said, isn't HumaPro basically an EAA product? There's nothing wrong with that by any means, EAAs are great, better than BCAAs according to a lot of research, but lets be realistic about what it is and what to expect from it (i.e. no "magic").

if you look at the Master Amino Acid Pattern studies, there seems to be more than meets the eye.

That said...I look at Humapro and say "there's no way...just doesn't add up despite the science" (which is rare for me)


But then the anecdotal reports are INSANE.

I admit I haven't used it, but the user reports on Humapro always blow me away. It's crazy what people seem to experience with it.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

if you look at the Master Amino Acid Pattern studies, there seems to be more than meets the eye.

That said...I look at Humapro and say "there's no way...just doesn't add up despite the science" (which is rare for me)


But then the anecdotal reports are INSANE.

I admit I haven't used it, but the user reports on Humapro always blow me away. It's crazy what people seem to experience with it.

The studies that show that it can be used as an effective replacement for protein while having less calories/macros, therefore facilitating weight loss? That's nothing really new, and as I said, the same thing is almost certainly applicable with EAAs (with sufficient leucine content). Again, EAAs are great, that's not the argument here at all. Maybe link up some other studies, as the only ones I see are using it to replace whole protein, which we know EAAs can do, and we know low doses of Whey + leucine can do (although this still has slightly more calories than just EAAs).

Also, to Eric's points, what study are you referring to? Also, what synergy are you talking about? I agree that EAAs are superior to intact protein in the context of intra (and maybe even peri) workout use. There is also research that peptides/WPH are superior to intact proteins (di/tri-peptides are absorbed differently) in this intra/peri-workout context (superior to Whey isolate, which is probably the "fastest" high quality intact protein). Now, I am not aware of much research comparing WPH to EAAs in this context, so the only conclusion I can draw is that they're both better than intact proteins for this purpose/use/timing. Also, there is plenty of research on what various doses of EAAs will do for MPS, and also how altering the leucine content of EAAs can effect, and maximize, MPS. There's no magic to it really.

 

[VaughnTrue]

The studies that show that it can be used as an effective replacement for protein while having less calories/macros, therefore facilitating weight loss? That's nothing really new, and as I said, the same thing is almost certainly applicable with EAAs (with sufficient leucine content). Again, EAAs are great, that's not the argument here at all. Maybe link up some other studies, as the only ones I see are using it to replace whole protein, which we know EAAs can do, and we know low doses of Whey + leucine can do (although this still has slightly more calories than just EAAs).

Also, to Eric's points, what study are you referring to? Also, what synergy are you talking about? I agree that EAAs are superior to intact protein in the context of intra (and maybe even peri) workout use. There is also research that peptides/WPH are superior to intact proteins (di/tri-peptides are absorbed differently) in this intra/peri-workout context (superior to Whey isolate, which is probably the "fastest" high quality intact protein). Now, I am not aware of much research comparing WPH to EAAs in this context, so the only conclusion I can draw is that they're both better than intact proteins for this purpose/use/timing. Also, there is plenty of research on what various doses of EAAs will do for MPS, and also how altering the leucine content of EAAs can effect, and maximize, MPS. There's no magic to it really.

do a search for the studies I mentioned above. Master Amino Acid Pattern

 

[muscleupcrohn]

do a search for the studies I mentioned above. Master Amino Acid Pattern

I did, and found these:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/14964348/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/14669816/

Are there more studies that I'm missing? If you're the expert on the subject, posting some links shouldn't be too difficult, and would greatly help us to understand.

I get that it may be an ideal way to maximize MPS with as few calories as possible, and maybe even with a smaller dose than what is normally used for EAAs, but can it increase MPS beyond what is considered maximal? If so, where is the research showing this? I am only aware of studies showing it can optimize MPS, and can be an effective replacement for intact/whole protein. That said, we can also maximize MPS with 6-10g EAAs (with 3-5g leucine) or ~6g WPH with leucine added to 3-5g. Is there research suggesting this MAP is superior to the above two protocols?

 

[VaughnTrue]

I did, and found these:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/14964348/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/14669816/

Are there more studies that I'm missing? If you're the expert on the subject, posting some links shouldn't be too difficult, and would greatly help us to understand.

I get that it may be an ideal way to maximize MPS with as few calories as possible, and maybe even with a smaller dose than what is normally used for EAAs, but can it increase MPS beyond what is considered maximal? If so, where is the research showing this? I am only aware of studies showing it can optimize MPS, and can be an effective replacement for intact/whole protein. That said, we can also maximize MPS with 6-10g EAAs (with 3-5g leucine) or ~6g WPH with leucine added to 3-5g. Is there research suggesting this MAP is superior to the above two protocols?

If you read my initial post, you'll quickly see I have never even CLOSE claimed to be an expert.


If you google the term I gave you, this is literally the 3rd link: http://masteraminoacidpattern.com/


As my initial post stated:

if you look at the Master Amino Acid Pattern studies, there seems to be more than meets the eye.

That said...I look at Humapro and say "there's no way...just doesn't add up despite the science" (which is rare for me)


But then the anecdotal reports are INSANE.

I admit I haven't used it, but the user reports on Humapro always blow me away. It's crazy what people seem to experience with it.

 

[Big_Spaz]

Sweet Tea seems to be the flavor everyone loves.

I personally have used it years ago and really enjoyed it, however I haven't used it recently. But the guys on the team talk about it all the time, and how great it is and everyone loves it. So honestly it has me quite intrigued once again, to the point where I'm going to order some up here very soon and probably give it a good amount of time (on a run of probably 6+ months or so) to see what it can really do.






-Spaz

 

[muscleupcrohn]

If you read my initial post, you'll quickly see I have never even CLOSE claimed to be an expert.


If you google the term I gave you, this is literally the 3rd link: http://masteraminoacidpattern.com/


As my initial post stated:

Thanks, just read through them. Again, they can effectively be used in place of intact protein with significantly less calories. I'm not saying that HumaPro/EAAs are ineffective at all, just that MAP is really just EAAs (plus bitter melon etc). EAAs are great though, so that's good. If MAP is somehow superior to any other ratio of EAAs, let's see a study showing increased MPS/etc relative to 10g EAAs containing 5g leucine.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Thanks, just read through them. Again, they can effectively be used in place of intact protein with significantly less calories. I'm not saying that HumaPro/EAAs are ineffective at all, just that MAP is really just EAAs (plus bitter melon etc). EAAs are great though, so that's good. If MAP is somehow superior to any other ratio of EAAs, let's see a study showing increased MPS/etc relative to 10g EAAs containing 5g leucine.

sounds like it'd be a fun study. would love to see it when Performax is able to afford a study of that magnitude.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

sounds like it'd be a fun study. would love to see it when Performax is able to afford a study of that magnitude.

Frankly, I don't think it's a necessary study for me, as I'm not the one claiming that MAP is the IDEAL/OPTIMAL combination/ratio/etc of amino acids. Wouldn't the burden of proof for that be on the makers of MAP and/or the companies using it? I'll just use the plethora of existing research on maximizing MPS/etc with EAA/WPH and added leucine. I know that this 6-10g EAAs with 3-5g leucine, or ~6g WPH with leucine added to 3-5g will stimulate MPS VERY effectively.

Again, not to beat a dead horse, I never said MAP isn't an effective amino acid (EAA) supplement/source. It is, and EAAs are great. I just say that I highly doubt that 10g MAP (the dose used in a lot of the studies) is going to be superior to 10g of "non-MAP" EAAs with 5g leucine. Is there any research that suggests otherwise?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Frankly, I don't think it's a necessary study for me, as I'm not the one claiming that MAP is the IDEAL/OPTIMAL combination/ratio/etc of amino acids. Wouldn't the burden of proof for that be on the makers of MAP and/or the companies using it? I'll just use the plethora of existing research on maximizing MPS/etc with EAA/WPH and added leucine. I know that this 6-10g EAAs with 3-5g leucine, or ~6g WPH with leucine added to 3-5g will stimulate MPS VERY effectively.

Again, not to beat a dead horse, I never said MAP isn't an effective amino acid (EAA) supplement/source. It is, and EAAs are great. I just say that I highly doubt that 10g MAP (the dose used in a lot of the studies) is going to be superior to 10g of "non-MAP" EAAs with 5g leucine. Is there any research that suggests otherwise?

try both out, let me know.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

try both out, let me know.

Isn't the big selling point optimizing MPS/nitrogen balance while minimizing calories? I'm bulking, why would I want to minimize calories? Honestly, whole eggs and beef are better for my goals than whey/EAAs any time except intra/peri-workout, there is already a plethora of research supporting the effectiveness of EAAs (and even WPH) and the importance of leucine content in this context. I don't see a point in paying a premium for a "special ratio" of EAAs when numerous studies have shown the effectiveness of EAA/protein with VARIOUS ratios of amino acids, provided that there is optimal leucine content.

 

[VaughnTrue]

View attachment 155357
Isn't the big selling point optimizing MPS/nitrogen balance while minimizing calories? I'm bulking, why would I want to minimize calories? Honestly, whole eggs and beef are better for my goals than whey/EAAs any time except intra/peri-workout, there is already a plethora of research supporting the effectiveness of EAAs (and even WPH) and the importance of leucine content in this context. I don't see a point in paying a premium for a "special ratio" of EAAs when numerous studies have shown the effectiveness of EAA/protein with VARIOUS ratios of amino acids, provided that there is optimal leucine content.

the main selling points is that the product matches the MAP ratios identically, which have proven exceptionally well in all studies performed on them.

I'm not going to sit here and having a pissing match with you. As my original post stated (which I've now posted 2x to help with reading comprehension), the science isn't all inclusive...which is what makes me sit and say "man, the results I hear from people are astounding, HOW is this happening"?

I'd love more studies on this product as well as others. The reason more products aren't studied in depth is due to cost. This is why HTP does as many studies as they can while remaining financially feasible, and is why Performax labs performs zero studies as if they were to pay for the exorbitant cost of peer reviewed double blind studies they'd have no money left.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

the main selling points is that the product matches the MAP ratios identically, which have proven exceptionally well in all studies performed on them.

I'm not going to sit here and having a pissing match with you. As my original post stated (which I've now posted 2x to help with reading comprehension), the science isn't all inclusive...which is what makes me sit and say "man, the results I hear from people are astounding, HOW is this happening"?

I'd love more studies on this product as well as others. The reason more products aren't studied in depth is due to cost. This is why HTP does as many studies as they can while remaining financially feasible, and is why Performax labs performs zero studies as if they were to pay for the exorbitant cost of peer reviewed double blind studies they'd have no money left.

I'm not trying to have a "pissing match," I'm asking what, if anything, makes MAP superior to sufficient EAAs with ideal leucine content? The studies on MAP do not, to my knowledge, address this at all. If we can agree that this is something that we just can't really know based on the existing research, then I agree that we're done with this discussion. I suppose we could go into hypotheses of why it would or wouldn't be superior, but I think that's beyond the scope of this discussion, and not really the topic of this thread. No sense beating a dead horse.

Also, what does HTP and/or Performax funding or not funding studies have to do with this? It seems like you're resorting to logical fallacies to undermine my credibility and bolster yours. Are you personally the one conducting, or at least organizing/planning, the studies done on MAP? If not, how is it relevant to this discussion? Is my interpretation/analysis of existing literature on EAA/leucine/MPS/etc somehow invalid because I'm not paying for studies? Is your analysis somehow more valid because the company you work for is? Do facts not stand up on their own merit regardless of who is saying them? Am I not allowed to say that various ratios of amino acids in EAAs have all done very well in stimulating MPS provided ideal leucine content because I didn't fund the studies that showed this? That's not how science works.

Are we done here? What do you want me to say? I can agree that MAP is a quality source of EAAs, and can effectively be used as a low calorie replacement for whole/intact protein. I can't say I think that it is superior to other ratios of EAAs in sufficient quantities with ideal leucine content, and I don't think you can say that either. At this point, I don't think we're even in disagreement really. Let's not resort to fallacious logic in an attempt to undermine each other.

 

[dougefresh93]

i use and love the tabs

long time staple.

 

[De__eB]

Uh...VT...

I'm not sure how to put this elegantly, so I'm not even going to try.

Maurizio Lucà-Moretti is a fraud.

Ask him where his doctorate in medicine is from.
Ask for a copy of his dissertation
He claims the title professor, ask him what university he has ever been a professor at.
Ask him why his claimed professional title has changed repeatedly over the years to various different medicine related doctorates.

Ask why every single journal article he has ever published has been published in open acess pay-to-publish rapid peer review journals.

Ask him why he's spent the past 10 years hawking cancer and AIDS treatments on the hippie woo circuit of alternative health bull****.

And if he has anything to do with ALRI, or Hi-Tech, tell him to call me a liar or sue me. Because I'd love to go through court ordered discovery on that guy.

**** him.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Uh...VT...

I'm not sure how to put this elegantly, so I'm not even going to try.

Maurizio Lucà-Moretti is a fraud.

Ask him where his doctorate in medicine is from.
Ask for a copy of his dissertation
He claims the title professor, ask him what university he has ever been a professor at.
Ask him why his claimed professional title has changed repeatedly over the years to various different medicine related doctorates.

Ask why every single journal article he has ever published has been published in open acess pay-to-publish rapid peer review journals.

Ask him why he's spent the past 10 years hawking cancer and AIDS treatments on the hippie woo circuit of alternative health bull****.

And if he has anything to do with ALRI, or Hi-Tech, tell him to call me a liar or sue me. Because I'd love to go through court ordered discovery on that guy.

**** him.

I'm legit not sure how many times I can write the same thing.

"man, the results I hear from people are astounding, HOW is this happening"?

How many times do I need to say that the science (aka what you're quoting) doesn't fully add up?


HOW MANY TIMES YALL

 

[De__eB]

I'm legit not sure how many times I can write the same thing.

"man, the results I hear from people are astounding, HOW is this happening"?

How many times do I need to say that the science (aka what you're quoting) doesn't fully add up?

HOW MANY TIMES YALL

You're the one who started citing fraudulent science.

The reason the science doesn't add up because the science is fraudulent.

As in the studies that demonstrated those results were literally never performed.

 

[compan]

I'm legit not sure how many times I can write the same thing.

"man, the results I hear from people are astounding, HOW is this happening"?

How many times do I need to say that the science (aka what you're quoting) doesn't fully add up?


HOW MANY TIMES YALL

One more for good measure.



I love Humapro tabs personally.

 

[VaughnTrue]

You're the one who started citing fraudulent science.

The reason the science doesn't add up because the science is fraudulent.

As in the studies that demonstrated those results were literally never performed.

lets review my posts, shall we?

if you look at the Master Amino Acid Pattern studies, there seems to be more than meets the eye.

That said...I look at Humapro and say "there's no way...just doesn't add up despite the science" (which is rare for me)


But then the anecdotal reports are INSANE.

I admit I haven't used it, but the user reports on Humapro always blow me away. It's crazy what people seem to experience with it.

do a search for the studies I mentioned above. Master Amino Acid Pattern

If you read my initial post, you'll quickly see I have never even CLOSE claimed to be an expert.


If you google the term I gave you, this is literally the 3rd link: http://masteraminoacidpattern.com/


As my initial post stated:

No where did I post/quote studies. I suggested he look them up.

My first post very specifically said "That said...I look at Humapro and say "there's no way...just doesn't add up despite the science" (which is rare for me)"



please, tell me how many more times I can restate that the science DOESN'T add up, yet anecdotal reports are amazing?


5 more? I'll post it 5 more times. Just let me know.

 

[De__eB]

lets review my posts, shall we?

No where did I post/quote studies. I suggested he look them up.

My first post very specifically said "That said...I look at Humapro and say "there's no way...just doesn't add up despite the science" (which is rare for me)"

please, tell me how many more times I can restate that the science DOESN'T add up, yet anecdotal reports are amazing?

5 more? I'll post it 5 more times. Just let me know.

Oh okay, you weren't citing studies, you were just telling someone what studies to look at, that's totally different, how foolish of me.

Just let me know why a product that's apparently so groundbreaking and effective that it confounds the mind has never actually had a study published on it?

You'd think there'd be a lot of clinical interest in how some free form amino acids as a complete substitute for protein managed to cause someone to gain muscle mass while consuming zero protein and crossing a desert.

Various versions of the HumaPro writeup even cite exactly copied statistics and data from the MAP studies, of course not directly citing them because they're plainly fraudulent to anybody who gives them even a cursory glance.

The current write-ups still claim that the product has been proven in multiple clinical studies.

--

I hope you know this isn't personal, I'm more than happy to say positive things about iForce and Hi-Tech stuff past and present, but you've got a big brand ecosystem, and I don't pull punches.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I'm legit not sure how many times I can write the same thing.

"man, the results I hear from people are astounding, HOW is this happening"?

How many times do I need to say that the science (aka what you're quoting) doesn't fully add up?


HOW MANY TIMES YALL

Are you aware of anyone who has compared it directly to 6-10g EAAs with 3-5g leucine (not BCAAs, not EAAs with <3g leucine, etc)? I'm not arguing that it doesn't work well, only that the research suggests that optimal EAA or even low-dose/suboptimal whey/hydro with added leucine would be able to have the same great/ideal/optimal/etc effects on MPS. My question is, simply put, do you believe MAP will increase MPS to a greater degree than what we would consider "optimal" with various protein/amino sources provided ideal leucine content? And if so, why? What science doesn't add up? It's completely logical that EAAs can increase MPS to the same degree as whole/intact protein, and can therefore be a useful replacement with less calories, therefore facilitating weight loss. I don't see anything not adding up here, MAP is doing exactly what EAAs are supposed to do.

If you show me a study that concludes that MAP is able to increase MPS to a greater degree than 6-10g EAAs with 3-5g leucine, or from an optimal/ideal intake of whole/intact food, then I'll tell you that the science "doesn't add up."

The "study" that compares MAP only to egg protein only gave a total protein intake of 0.4g/kg/day, or 28g for a 70kg person. That doesn't seem insanely low to you? That's hardly "optimized/ideal" so it's unsurprising that MAP could surpass/exceed that sub-par protocol. They used the same 0.4g/kg/day of MAP, which is 28g MAP for a 70kg person, which provides 5.5g leucine, compared to approximately only 2.5g in the egg protein group. Is it really surprising that 5.5g leucine > 2.5g leucine? After reading that study, it, if anything, seems to support my claim of leucine being the most important factor in protein/amino acid composition.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Oh okay, you weren't citing studies, you were just telling someone what studies to look at, that's totally different, how foolish of me.

Just let me know why a product that's apparently so groundbreaking and effective that it confounds the mind has never actually had a study published on it?

You'd think there'd be a lot of clinical interest in how some free form amino acids as a complete substitute for protein managed to cause someone to gain muscle mass while consuming zero protein and crossing a desert.

Various versions of the HumaPro writeup even cite exactly copied statistics and data from the MAP studies, of course not directly citing them because they're plainly fraudulent to anybody who gives them even a cursory glance.

The current write-ups still claim that the product has been proven in multiple clinical studies.

--

I hope you know this isn't personal, I'm more than happy to say positive things about iForce and Hi-Tech stuff past and present, but you've got a big brand ecosystem, and I don't pull punches.

Please review MY comments (in which I have posted i think 6x now...) stating I don't think the science really adds up.


4 more times now?

 

[De__eB]

Please review MY comments (in which I have posted i think 6x now...) stating I don't think the science really adds up.

4 more times now?

Why was a product formulated based on fraudulent science that doesn't add up?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Why was a product formulated based on fraudulent science that doesn't add up?

I didn't formulate the product.

Nor have I seem proof anywhere that shows MAP is fraudulent science.


Do I think the science appears too good to be true? Yes, I do. Does that make it fraudulent? No.



What I DO know about this product, is users continually OVER AND OVER tell us how amazing the results are from it. I can't explain why, but the anecdotal reports on it are staggeringly positive.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Why was a product formulated based on fraudulent science that doesn't add up?

What doesn't add up? 5.5g > 2.5g leucine content in the same overall quantity of amino acids. That's common sense, and has been shown in numerous studies, which seems to suggest that it is the leucine content that is the key/driving factor/component, not some magic/perfect ratio of amino acids. If they truly had the "perfect ratio" of amino acids that outperformed any other ratio, even if it (all other ratios) also has optimal leucine content and sufficient EAA content, then why wouldn't they test it to prove it? How does the current research show it is any different than any other EAAs? What makes it ideal? I just don't see it. It sounds like good marketing to me, as the results seem to be consistent with what can be expected with EAAs.

 

[VaughnTrue]

What doesn't add up? 5.5g > 2.5g leucine content in the same overall quantity of amino acids. That's common sense, and has been shown in numerous studies, which seems to suggest that it is the leucine content that is the key/driving factor/component, not some magic/perfect ratio of amino acids. If they truly had the "perfect ratio" of amino acids that outperformed any other ratio, even if it (all other ratios) also has optimal leucine content and sufficient EAA content, then why wouldn't they test it to prove it? How does the current research show it is any different than any other EAAs? What makes it ideal? I just don't see it. It sounds like good marketing to me, as the results seem to be consistent with what can be expected with EAAs.

If Performax labs had the magic/perfect ratio of magic herbs for boosting testosterone, why isn't it being tested in a peer reviewed and double blind study to prove it?

 

[De__eB]

No where did I post/quote studies. I suggested he look them up.

Please review MY comments (in which I have posted i think 6x now...) stating I don't think the science really adds up.

4 more times now?

You sure like citing science that doesn't add up.

I didn't formulate the product.

Nor have I seem proof anywhere that shows MAP is fraudulent science.

The science is fraudulent because the person publishing it is committing academic fraud.

There is no such thing as the "European society of biological medicine" in Milan. So how did they publish a study with him?

Call the sports medicine institute in Milan right now. Ask them if any of the five fellows there that he cited as working on one of his other papers with him have ever done any work there. (I've done this, I can call them again tomorrow, and ask them if they'll allow me to record the conversation or will give me a written response)

 

[muscleupcrohn]

If Performax labs had the magic/perfect ratio of magic herbs for boosting testosterone, why isn't it being tested in a peer reviewed and double blind study to prove it?

Because there is no magic/perfect ratio, you unintentionally just proved my point. There are so many different herbs that will be effective, and different doses, combinations, interactions, MoAs, synergy, antagonism, etc. When did I claim Performax had the "magic/perfect" test booster? Hell, I mention M-Test, Testify, etc in the same sentence as AlphaMax XT all the time, and even say that they all have their own benefits that can give one the edge over another for a particular person and/or goal. Simply put, there is no "magic ratio."

Nice try though, besides being entirely irrelevant to this discussion, it also proves my point.

 

[De__eB]

If Performax labs had the magic/perfect ratio of magic herbs for boosting testosterone, why isn't it being tested in a peer reviewed and double blind study to prove it?

Because the ingredients individually have been individually shown in human and/or animal studies to have effects that will be desirable in humans

--

The analogy you're looking for would be this:

Performax labs claims that AlphaMax is literally superior to injecting testosterone, and in fact suffices as a total replacement for testosterone.

Given that ALRI claims that HumaPro is literally superior than consuming protein, and cites "research" that claims that people can literally build muscle, while losing weight, while crossing a desert, while consuming literally zero protein.

 

[Young Gotti]

lol this is hilarious.....so people want to follow science and have their panties in a bunch when someone simply posts that, regardless of science, the product has shown to be effective

science is not the end all be all, stop basing 100% of your beliefs on someone elses work, take the product and see how you feel about the product yourself, combine that with the science and you'll be surprised as to how your thoughts change

I swear if a "study" came out saying theres no caffeine in a cup of coffee....you'd say, well I'm not drinking coffee anymore, the years of it waking me up was placebo