7-Keto Vs 11-Keto

InItForGainz

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7-Keto and 11-Keto supplements are both metabolites of DHEA and are both used as cutting agents, but which is better for overall fatloss.
I know that 7-Keto is natural and that 11-Keto is slightly suppressive, (To what degree is debatable), but I just want to know people's experiences of either and/or both before I go ahead with any purchase.


Reps for answers and experiences.
 
VaughnTrue

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non-comparable.

11-keto will far out perform 7-keto, but hormonal products will always beat out non-hormonal products.
 

InItForGainz

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non-comparable.

11-keto will far out perform 7-keto, but hormonal products will always beat out non-hormonal products.
Thank you.
That is totally understandable. But how suppressive is 11-Keto? I know that some argue that suppression is suppression regardless of to the extent, but would an 8-12 week 11-Keto run really require a full SERM based PCT?
 
Nickespo89

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Thank you.
That is totally understandable. But how suppressive is 11-Keto? I know that some argue that suppression is suppression regardless of to the extent, but would an 8-12 week 11-Keto run really require a full SERM based PCT?
I don’t see any harm in at least running 2 weeks of Nolvadex at 10mg possibly entering the third with 5mg.
 

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non-comparable.

11-keto will far out perform 7-keto, but hormonal products will always beat out non-hormonal products.
Thank you.
That is totally understandable. But how suppressive is 11-Keto? I know that some argue that suppression is suppression regardless of to the extent, but would an 8-12 week 11-Keto run really require a full SERM based PCT?
Would the suppression be enough to cause shutdown?
 
Nickespo89

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Would the suppression be enough to cause shutdown?
I honestly don’t think you would be shut down much. However 12 weeks of it will allow cortisol to rebound like crazy. So I would suggest 7 keto to be taken after last 11keto dosage. Taken at 400mg split 2x or 4x for the first week after. Second wk 300mg split 3x. 200mg for the third and 100mg for the 4th. People may say that stupid and overkill. But do you want to risk adding 5lbs or so of flab after a 12wk cycle? I suggested the Nolva just to be safe on estrogen sides. I personally hate nolva brain fog. So I would do aromasin to keep Estro under control and lower shbg. And add in DAA 3g for the first two weeks after.
 
Studdscruggs

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Toremifine is the best pct. I've experienced 0 sides.
 

Slims

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I honestly don’t think you would be shut down much. However 12 weeks of it will allow cortisol to rebound like crazy. So I would suggest 7 keto to be taken after last 11keto dosage. Taken at 400mg split 2x or 4x for the first week after. Second wk 300mg split 3x. 200mg for the third and 100mg for the 4th. People may say that stupid and overkill. But do you want to risk adding 5lbs or so of flab after a 12wk cycle? I suggested the Nolva just to be safe on estrogen sides. I personally hate nolva brain fog. So I would do aromasin to keep Estro under control and lower shbg. And add in DAA 3g for the first two weeks after.
How about 7-Keto stacked with Reduce XT to reduce the possible Cortisol rebound and BLR's Rebirth stacked with OL's Sup3r-PCT to reduce the possible Estrogen rebound?
 
Nickespo89

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How about 7-Keto stacked with Reduce XT to reduce the possible Cortisol rebound and BLR's Rebirth stacked with OL's Sup3r-PCT to reduce the possible Estrogen rebound?
Sounds good. If anything I would extend the rebirth to 8wks total. But that would just be my preference.
 

Slims

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Sounds good. If anything I would extend the rebirth to 8wks total. But that would just be my preference.
For the PCT I'd do

BLR's Rebirth
2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2
OL's Sup3r-PCT
10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10
SNS' Reduce XT
3/3/3/3/3/3
 
vujade

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7-Keto and 11-Keto supplements are both metabolites of DHEA
and are both used as cutting agents, but which is better for overall fatloss.

I know that 7-Keto is natural and that 11-Keto is slightly suppressive, (To what degree is debatable),
but I just want to know people's experiences of either and/or both before I go ahead with any purchase.


Reps for answers and experiences.
7 Keto & 11 Keto are not both metabolites of DHEA.
1 is DHEA and the other is an active steroid.

7 Keto is 7 keto-DHEA
11 Keto is 11 Keto-Testosterone

11 Keto > 7 Keto
 
vujade

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Have you used 11-Keto?
yes I've used both 7 Keto and 11 Keto

Had a pretty decent run with 11 keto stacked with 1-andro.

Gained 4 pounds, but lost 1/2" off my waist.
 

Slims

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yes I've used both 7 Keto and 11 Keto

Had a pretty decent run with 11 keto stacked with 1-andro.

Gained 4 pounds, but lost 1/2" off my waist.
Those are some seriously impressive recomp results from such mild compounds, well done man!
What was your PCT for that run?
 
vujade

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Those are some seriously impressive recomp results from such mild compounds, well done man!
What was your PCT for that run?
Thanks bro.

I did a pretty natty pct for such a mild cycle. I didn't feel much suppression.

Used a test booster stacked with arimistane.

Full recovery. I always get blood work.
 

Slims

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Thanks bro.

I did a pretty natty pct for such a mild cycle. I didn't feel much suppression.

Used a test booster stacked with arimistane.

Full recovery. I always get blood work.
So did the 11-Keto serve as your Test Base?
Which Test Booster did you use for the PCT?
 
Nickespo89

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No sides, but I stacked with 750-1000mg EpiAndro ed. No PCT...I'm on TRT
That’s a GREAT recomp cycle. especially with you being on trt. I love how much trt has opened up my ability to cycle in and out various hormones without losing mental sharpness and drive. it’s like walking up a super long staircase without having to stop for air. Always moving forward. Good work, brother.
 
Nickespo89

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Preferably I'd add in a real SERM, but for a solo 11-Keto run I think the con's of running a pharma grade SERM outway the pro's to be honest.
Same bro. Clomid makes me bitchy and nolva gives me brain fog.
 

Slims

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vujade Nickespo89 BRUstrong
How did you feel on 11-Keto?
Any mood, motivation or "Alpha" boosts from it?
 
Nickespo89

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vujade Nickespo89

How did you feel on 11-Keto?
Any mood, motivation or "Alpha" boosts from it?
I have yet to do a run of it. I have considered it several times in my recomps...the price just isn’t settling to me. I cut super easy as is. Just have to do 20min of cardio 3x a week to get under 13% bf. and cut my calories down from 5k to 3k

I just know how it reacts in the body. Knowing the pharmacology of these different hormones and how they interact has been key to my success thus far.


Something I did want to mention to you is to be careful with the sup3r pct. running 75mg or arimistane for 8weeks would dry out my joints like crazy! So if you feel joint pain in pct I suggest cutting it out for a week or so and starting it again at 5-7 caps for the remainder. The likelihood of Estro sides from 11keto is negligible. Having low Estro is terrible thing to deal with.

Having crashed mine myself. When I did super pct I took 10caps for 2 weeks and took 2 weeks off. Did that till I finished. The daa In it is only beneficial for 2 weeks anyways.


AGAIN BROTHER EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. I am just giving you tips from what I have noticed and learned through my failures and successes.

Good luck!!!
 
vujade

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vujade Nickespo89 BRUstrong
How did you feel on 11-Keto?
Any mood, motivation or "Alpha" boosts from it?
Not really. maybe a slight calming effect from reduced cortisol.
Ive run it 2 or 3 times now.

If you want Alpha Feeling stack Androsterone with EpiAndro ;)
 

Slims

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I have yet to do a run of it. I have considered it several times in my recomps...the price just isn’t settling to me. I cut super easy as is. Just have to do 20min of cardio 3x a week to get under 13% bf. and cut my calories down from 5k to 3k

I just know how it reacts in the body. Knowing the pharmacology of these different hormones and how they interact has been key to my success thus far.


Something I did want to mention to you is to be careful with the sup3r pct. running 75mg or arimistane for 8weeks would dry out my joints like crazy! So if you feel joint pain in pct I suggest cutting it out for a week or so and starting it again at 5-7 caps for the remainder. The likelihood of Estro sides from 11keto is negligible. Having low Estro is terrible thing to deal with.

Having crashed mine myself. When I did super pct I took 10caps for 2 weeks and took 2 weeks off. Did that till I finished. The daa In it is only beneficial for 2 weeks anyways.


AGAIN BROTHER EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. I am just giving you tips from what I have noticed and learned through my failures and successes.

Good luck!!!
Trial and error is the only way to tell how you will actually react to things.
I was planning to do a Sup3r-PCT run soon as just a Natty Test Booster cycle, using a 2 weeks on - 1 week off - 2 weeks on rotation.
But I'm at 12.8% bodyfat now and need a little extra, non-stim, help to get to 10%. I could also do with some mood and motivation boost which is where the slight Test conversion from the 11-Keto should help.
 

Slims

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Not really. maybe a slight calming effect from reduced cortisol.
Ive run it 2 or 3 times now.

If you want Alpha Feeling stack Androsterone with EpiAndro ;)
I'm still undecided about the real PH's at the moment. I'm waiting to find out if I'm getting TRT or not.
 

Slims

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Yea, I hope you're seeing a doctor
Constantly!
They're all saying the same thing,
"Yes, it's low, but not low enough to cause health issues and therefore an unsuitable candidate for Testosterone Replacement Treatment"
 
BRUstrong

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Constantly!
They're all saying the same thing,
"Yes, it's low, but not low enough to cause health issues and therefore an unsuitable candidate for Testosterone Replacement Treatment"
Wow, that's nuts. I tested below 200 three times when I was 28 and I was put on TRT. Not sure how old you are, but make sure when you find a doc, he/she puts you on clomid if you want to have kids (or more kids)
 

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Wow, that's nuts. I tested below 200 three times when I was 28 and I was put on TRT. Not sure how old you are, but make sure when you find a doc, he/she puts you on clomid if you want to have kids (or more kids)
I'm 24. Was first diagnosed with low test when I was 22, but doctor's over here in the UK are reluctant to treat hormone related disorders in anybody under 30.
I have been considering self administered Test C TRT 2x80mg per week OR 750mg Epi-Andro ED.
 
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but doctor's over here in the UK are reluctant to treat hormone related disorders in anybody under 30.
It doesn't get much better after 30 either mate. Mine are ****ing useless.
 
The_Old_Guy

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You in the UK too?
Since you are in a country that doesn't GAS if an individual possesses Testosterone, I'd seriously consider self administered since you are getting jacked around by the NHS... *IF* you can get bloodwork done routinely and affordably, *and* you can obtain Rx produced product, *and* they have ruled out any problems with the Hypothalmus or Pituitary that can be "fixed" (ie. everything works great, you just ain't making any T). 200's total, with 2.75 free is ridiculous, and from what I've read on the subject, *does* negatively impact other health markers. I guess the UK doesn't have "TRT Clinics"? Good luck. I wouldn't mess with oral EpiAndro to try and fix the problem - It isn't "T", expensive, worse bio-availibility, requires frequent dosing, and there has to be some added wear and tear on the liver even though it's not methylated when considering long term use. JMO
 

Slims

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Since you are in a country that doesn't GAS if an individual possesses Testosterone, I'd seriously consider self administered since you are getting jacked around by the NHS... *IF* you can get bloodwork done routinely and affordably, *and* you can obtain Rx produced product. 200's total, with 2.75 free is ridiculous, and from what I've read on the subject, *does* negatively impact other health markers. I guess the UK doesn't have "TRT Clinics"? Good luck. I wouldn't mess with oral EpiAndro to try and fix the problem - expensive, worse bio-availibility, requires frequent dosing, and there has to be some added wear and tear on the liver even though it's not methylated when considering long term use. JMO
I CAN and DO get regular private blood work via a company called MediChecks, even their guy says my T is too low. It really does effect other health markers,
Mentality-F*cked
Libido-Non Existant
Drive/Motivation-Non
Lethargy-Ridiculous
Muscle hardness/Fullness-Sh*t
Etc
I have a friend who has been running 750mg Epi-Andro ED for the past 6 months now and he's doing amazingly well, all of his bloodwork looks good too. There's two or three others in my gym who do the same and they're all looking and feeling great too, and even more of a bonus is No injections, less legal risk and assured quality.
 
BRUstrong

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Damn, that sucks OP. I'm in the US so I can't relate. However, if you want to have kids in the future, you need to be careful what you take. PM me if you want some advice.
 

Slims

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Damn, that sucks OP. I'm in the US so I can't relate. However, if you want to have kids in the future, you need to be careful what you take. PM me if you want some advice.
Not really interested in having kids to be honest, just want to be happy, successful and strong again.
I'm really into the Epi-Andro TRT idea. The five people I know of who are currently doing it are loving life again and that's what I want.
 
Nickespo89

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Not really interested in having kids to be honest, just want to be happy, successful and strong again.
I'm really into the Epi-Andro TRT idea. The five people I know of who are currently doing it are loving life again and that's what I want.
I personally love epiandrosterone. It has a pretty decent effect on GABA in the body as well. I get great sleep and have a better focus on epiandro. The mind muscle connection you get from it is pretty rad too. I suffer from mania and insomnia...

That being said. There will be pretty much no growth from increased anabolism from it. I agree with self administration of trt as I am doing it. I don’t have health insurance in the states but I get my blood done privately. I have had low test (320) since I was 23. Didn’t go on trt till I was 26 and got it checked only to see it say 270. Soooo now at 27 I cruise on trt and blast every couple months.

If it’s the pin that scares you. Watch a couple YouTube videos and just do it. It’s made my life a lot easier. Anything from waking up in the morning to actually desiring sex again...
 

Slims

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I know that it won't significantly increase anabolism as a stand alone, that's why I'm looking at it more from a TRT Test Base view. I'm sick of feeling crappy and not having the quality of life that I should have. I'm 24 with 206ng/dl of Total Testosterone and 2.75ng/dl of Free Testosterone and yet the doctors don't feel that it's low enough to treat. As you and the others have said, you get a better feel, mental state and mind muscle connection from it.
With all being well (Bloods and in general)? I could then cruise on the Epi-Andro and blast with compounds like 1-AD, Stano and Epi.
 

bosskardo

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I CAN and DO get regular private blood work via a company called MediChecks, even their guy says my T is too low. It really does effect other health markers,
Mentality-F*cked
Libido-Non Existant
Drive/Motivation-Non
Lethargy-Ridiculous
Muscle hardness/Fullness-Sh*t
Etc
I have a friend who has been running 750mg Epi-Andro ED for the past 6 months now and he's doing amazingly well, all of his bloodwork looks good too. There's two or three others in my gym who do the same and they're all looking and feeling great too, and even more of a bonus is No injections, less legal risk and assured quality.
Running epiandro that long really isn't good.
If you don't eat to pin then might be worth considering SERMs.
 
Nickespo89

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I know that it won't significantly increase anabolism as a stand alone, that's why I'm looking at it more from a TRT Test Base view. I'm sick of feeling crappy and not having the quality of life that I should have. I'm 24 with 206ng/dl of Total Testosterone and 2.75ng/dl of Free Testosterone and yet the doctors don't feel that it's low enough to treat. As you and the others have said, you get a better feel, mental state and mind muscle connection from it.
With all being well (Bloods and in general)? I could then cruise on the Epi-Andro and blast with compounds like 1-AD, Stano and Epi.
The main issue I would consider with being on only epiandro is that it’s not a trt replacement. It does not aromatize into estrogen. Epiandro doesn’t cause much suppression of natural test production. However 1-AD can for sure and neither it or stano convert to estrogen. Estrogen does just as much good for a man as it does bad. It’s something you don’t want to run low on. But it’s something you don’t want exceedingly high either. Personally I like it being higher end of norm. It bloats me slightly but the strength, sex drive, and joint comfort is well worth the trade off.

However, feel free to give the Epiandro a try. If you still struggle you can always get on the goodness of test itself.
 

Slims

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The main issue I would consider with being on only epiandro is that it’s not a trt replacement. It does not aromatize into estrogen. Epiandro doesn’t cause much suppression of natural test production. However 1-AD can for sure and neither it or stano convert to estrogen. Estrogen does just as much good for a man as it does bad. It’s something you don’t want to run low on. But it’s something you don’t want exceedingly high either. Personally I like it being higher end of norm. It bloats me slightly but the strength, sex drive, and joint comfort is well worth the trade off.

However, feel free to give the Epiandro a try. If you still struggle you can always get on the goodness of test itself.
I would probably run a low dose of 4-AD alongside the Epi-Andro cruise.

Epi-Andro
750mg ED
+
4-Andro
110/220mg ED
But I do have slightly higher estrogen naturally so I'll just go off bloodworks
 
cronikgains

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yes I've used both 7 Keto and 11 Keto

Had a pretty decent run with 11 keto stacked with 1-andro.

Gained 4 pounds, but lost 1/2" off my waist.
How long was this cycle?
 

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