7-Keto Vs 11-Keto

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Slims View Post
    @vujade @Nickespo89 @BRUstrong
    How did you feel on 11-Keto?
    Any mood, motivation or "Alpha" boosts from it?
    Not really. maybe a slight calming effect from reduced cortisol.
    Ive run it 2 or 3 times now.

    If you want Alpha Feeling stack Androsterone with EpiAndro
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep

    *This Space Available. Rep 4 Hire


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Nickespo89 View Post
    I have yet to do a run of it. I have considered it several times in my recomps...the price just isnít settling to me. I cut super easy as is. Just have to do 20min of cardio 3x a week to get under 13% bf. and cut my calories down from 5k to 3k

    I just know how it reacts in the body. Knowing the pharmacology of these different hormones and how they interact has been key to my success thus far.


    Something I did want to mention to you is to be careful with the sup3r pct. running 75mg or arimistane for 8weeks would dry out my joints like crazy! So if you feel joint pain in pct I suggest cutting it out for a week or so and starting it again at 5-7 caps for the remainder. The likelihood of Estro sides from 11keto is negligible. Having low Estro is terrible thing to deal with.

    Having crashed mine myself. When I did super pct I took 10caps for 2 weeks and took 2 weeks off. Did that till I finished. The daa In it is only beneficial for 2 weeks anyways.


    AGAIN BROTHER EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. I am just giving you tips from what I have noticed and learned through my failures and successes.

    Good luck!!!
    Trial and error is the only way to tell how you will actually react to things.
    I was planning to do a Sup3r-PCT run soon as just a Natty Test Booster cycle, using a 2 weeks on - 1 week off - 2 weeks on rotation.
    But I'm at 12.8% bodyfat now and need a little extra, non-stim, help to get to 10%. I could also do with some mood and motivation boost which is where the slight Test conversion from the 11-Keto should help.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by vujade View Post
    Not really. maybe a slight calming effect from reduced cortisol.
    Ive run it 2 or 3 times now.

    If you want Alpha Feeling stack Androsterone with EpiAndro
    I'm still undecided about the real PH's at the moment. I'm waiting to find out if I'm getting TRT or not.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Slims View Post
    I'm still undecided about the real PH's at the moment. I'm waiting to find out if I'm getting TRT or not.
    What are your test numbers?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by BRUstrong View Post
    What are your test numbers?
    Total Testosterone=206ng/dl
    Free Testosterone=2.75ng/dl
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Slims View Post
    Total Testosterone=206ng/dl
    Free Testosterone=2.75ng/dl
    Yea, I hope you're seeing a doctor

  7. Quote Originally Posted by BRUstrong View Post
    Yea, I hope you're seeing a doctor
    Constantly!
    They're all saying the same thing,
    "Yes, it's low, but not low enough to cause health issues and therefore an unsuitable candidate for Testosterone Replacement Treatment"

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Slims View Post
    Constantly!
    They're all saying the same thing,
    "Yes, it's low, but not low enough to cause health issues and therefore an unsuitable candidate for Testosterone Replacement Treatment"
    Wow, that's nuts. I tested below 200 three times when I was 28 and I was put on TRT. Not sure how old you are, but make sure when you find a doc, he/she puts you on clomid if you want to have kids (or more kids)

  9. Quote Originally Posted by BRUstrong View Post
    Wow, that's nuts. I tested below 200 three times when I was 28 and I was put on TRT. Not sure how old you are, but make sure when you find a doc, he/she puts you on clomid if you want to have kids (or more kids)
    I'm 24. Was first diagnosed with low test when I was 22, but doctor's over here in the UK are reluctant to treat hormone related disorders in anybody under 30.
    I have been considering self administered Test C TRT 2x80mg per week OR 750mg Epi-Andro ED.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Slims View Post
    but doctor's over here in the UK are reluctant to treat hormone related disorders in anybody under 30.
    It doesn't get much better after 30 either mate. Mine are ****ing useless.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Eight View Post
    It doesn't get much better after 30 either mate. Mine are ****ing useless.
    You in the UK too?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Slims View Post
    You in the UK too?
    Since you are in a country that doesn't GAS if an individual possesses Testosterone, I'd seriously consider self administered since you are getting jacked around by the NHS... *IF* you can get bloodwork done routinely and affordably, *and* you can obtain Rx produced product, *and* they have ruled out any problems with the Hypothalmus or Pituitary that can be "fixed" (ie. everything works great, you just ain't making any T). 200's total, with 2.75 free is ridiculous, and from what I've read on the subject, *does* negatively impact other health markers. I guess the UK doesn't have "TRT Clinics"? Good luck. I wouldn't mess with oral EpiAndro to try and fix the problem - It isn't "T", expensive, worse bio-availibility, requires frequent dosing, and there has to be some added wear and tear on the liver even though it's not methylated when considering long term use. JMO

  13. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    Since you are in a country that doesn't GAS if an individual possesses Testosterone, I'd seriously consider self administered since you are getting jacked around by the NHS... *IF* you can get bloodwork done routinely and affordably, *and* you can obtain Rx produced product. 200's total, with 2.75 free is ridiculous, and from what I've read on the subject, *does* negatively impact other health markers. I guess the UK doesn't have "TRT Clinics"? Good luck. I wouldn't mess with oral EpiAndro to try and fix the problem - expensive, worse bio-availibility, requires frequent dosing, and there has to be some added wear and tear on the liver even though it's not methylated when considering long term use. JMO
    I CAN and DO get regular private blood work via a company called MediChecks, even their guy says my T is too low. It really does effect other health markers,
    Mentality-F*cked
    Libido-Non Existant
    Drive/Motivation-Non
    Lethargy-Ridiculous
    Muscle hardness/Fullness-Sh*t
    Etc
    I have a friend who has been running 750mg Epi-Andro ED for the past 6 months now and he's doing amazingly well, all of his bloodwork looks good too. There's two or three others in my gym who do the same and they're all looking and feeling great too, and even more of a bonus is No injections, less legal risk and assured quality.

  14. Damn, that sucks OP. I'm in the US so I can't relate. However, if you want to have kids in the future, you need to be careful what you take. PM me if you want some advice.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by BRUstrong View Post
    Damn, that sucks OP. I'm in the US so I can't relate. However, if you want to have kids in the future, you need to be careful what you take. PM me if you want some advice.
    Not really interested in having kids to be honest, just want to be happy, successful and strong again.
    I'm really into the Epi-Andro TRT idea. The five people I know of who are currently doing it are loving life again and that's what I want.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Slims View Post
    Not really interested in having kids to be honest, just want to be happy, successful and strong again.
    I'm really into the Epi-Andro TRT idea. The five people I know of who are currently doing it are loving life again and that's what I want.
    I personally love epiandrosterone. It has a pretty decent effect on GABA in the body as well. I get great sleep and have a better focus on epiandro. The mind muscle connection you get from it is pretty rad too. I suffer from mania and insomnia...

    That being said. There will be pretty much no growth from increased anabolism from it. I agree with self administration of trt as I am doing it. I donít have health insurance in the states but I get my blood done privately. I have had low test (320) since I was 23. Didnít go on trt till I was 26 and got it checked only to see it say 270. Soooo now at 27 I cruise on trt and blast every couple months.

    If itís the pin that scares you. Watch a couple YouTube videos and just do it. Itís made my life a lot easier. Anything from waking up in the morning to actually desiring sex again...

  17. I know that it won't significantly increase anabolism as a stand alone, that's why I'm looking at it more from a TRT Test Base view. I'm sick of feeling crappy and not having the quality of life that I should have. I'm 24 with 206ng/dl of Total Testosterone and 2.75ng/dl of Free Testosterone and yet the doctors don't feel that it's low enough to treat. As you and the others have said, you get a better feel, mental state and mind muscle connection from it.
    With all being well (Bloods and in general)? I could then cruise on the Epi-Andro and blast with compounds like 1-AD, Stano and Epi.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Slims View Post
    I CAN and DO get regular private blood work via a company called MediChecks, even their guy says my T is too low. It really does effect other health markers,
    Mentality-F*cked
    Libido-Non Existant
    Drive/Motivation-Non
    Lethargy-Ridiculous
    Muscle hardness/Fullness-Sh*t
    Etc
    I have a friend who has been running 750mg Epi-Andro ED for the past 6 months now and he's doing amazingly well, all of his bloodwork looks good too. There's two or three others in my gym who do the same and they're all looking and feeling great too, and even more of a bonus is No injections, less legal risk and assured quality.
    Running epiandro that long really isn't good.
    If you don't eat to pin then might be worth considering SERMs.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Slims View Post
    I know that it won't significantly increase anabolism as a stand alone, that's why I'm looking at it more from a TRT Test Base view. I'm sick of feeling crappy and not having the quality of life that I should have. I'm 24 with 206ng/dl of Total Testosterone and 2.75ng/dl of Free Testosterone and yet the doctors don't feel that it's low enough to treat. As you and the others have said, you get a better feel, mental state and mind muscle connection from it.
    With all being well (Bloods and in general)? I could then cruise on the Epi-Andro and blast with compounds like 1-AD, Stano and Epi.
    The main issue I would consider with being on only epiandro is that itís not a trt replacement. It does not aromatize into estrogen. Epiandro doesnít cause much suppression of natural test production. However 1-AD can for sure and neither it or stano convert to estrogen. Estrogen does just as much good for a man as it does bad. Itís something you donít want to run low on. But itís something you donít want exceedingly high either. Personally I like it being higher end of norm. It bloats me slightly but the strength, sex drive, and joint comfort is well worth the trade off.

    However, feel free to give the Epiandro a try. If you still struggle you can always get on the goodness of test itself.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Nickespo89 View Post
    The main issue I would consider with being on only epiandro is that it’s not a trt replacement. It does not aromatize into estrogen. Epiandro doesn’t cause much suppression of natural test production. However 1-AD can for sure and neither it or stano convert to estrogen. Estrogen does just as much good for a man as it does bad. It’s something you don’t want to run low on. But it’s something you don’t want exceedingly high either. Personally I like it being higher end of norm. It bloats me slightly but the strength, sex drive, and joint comfort is well worth the trade off.

    However, feel free to give the Epiandro a try. If you still struggle you can always get on the goodness of test itself.
    I would probably run a low dose of 4-AD alongside the Epi-Andro cruise.

    Epi-Andro
    750mg ED
    +
    4-Andro
    110/220mg ED
    But I do have slightly higher estrogen naturally so I'll just go off bloodworks
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