BCAA's - staple or useless?

Toff

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So creatine, a given, daily.
the odd fancy supplement here and there (like a pump product or pwo)

and protein the main goal of the day and not too many carbs

but BCAA's?

I saw some on offer for £10 for 200g, thought id give it a go - tastes amazing.

So who are they for? What can i expect to gain?

Substitute for my milky whey?
 
mickc1965

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I would say BCAAs are beneficial for people that train fasted AM and 16:8 IF assuming they are not eating until later in the day, other than that as long as sufficient protein is consumed then there is no need for them.
 
macedog24

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Bcaa/eaa . this topic will get many opinions. Now when fasted or on a below calorie cut or fatloss phase. Most definitely they will help maintain , stave off catabolism, and allow you to push longer and harder where normally you might not be able to due to the restriction .
 
The Solution

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A few situations where they may have some merit.

1) Training fasted and used prior to fasted training (which really does not make it fasted training anymore)
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

2) Between meals spaced 4-6 hours apart as a bolus to help maximize MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis)
http://spotmebro.com/layne-norton-phd-on-protein-how-much-and-how-often/
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass
Podcast:
https://www.biolayne.com/blog/news/episode-2-of-muscle-college-radio-muscle-protein-synthesis/
Protein Info:
https://www.biolayne.com/coaching/faq/part-d-protein-info/

3) Used at a meal where there is use of incomplete protein sources to help reach 3-5g leucine in a sitting to maximize MPS. Say if you had a meal of rice and beans, and needed more complete protein. Another example. You eat a cheese pizza and need more protein/bcaa's to help reach an adequate amount of leucine you would add BCAA's to that meal.

When you don't need BCAA's:
1) If your training fed.. Food is overlapping into the post-workout period, so eating a meal and then sipping on BCAA's shortly after constantly is elevating MPS, and never allowing it to reach baseline or to its refractory stages.

2) Sipping on them all day. Totally pointless, that is like eating chicken every 10 minutes.
I will quote Mr. Cooper on this one:

"Don't fall for the "it's a great replacement for sugary drinks" argument. BCAAs are 6 calories per gram, and when sipped in an all day fashion, contribute heavily to both an insulin response and gluconeogenesis. Sipping on BCAA’s takes away from MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis) as levels never get a chance to reach refractory stages before being spiked again The net effect is increased insulin and blood sugar."

In the grand scheme of things, if you are reaching a protein requirement of 1-1.5g of protein a day, and spreading our your meals evenly (every 3-5 hours) the need for a BCAA would be minimal. Especially since most people use a whey protein powder to help reach their protein intake which has a full AA Profile (or should), but we know how companies like to cut corners in the industry.
 
AntM1564

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A few situations where they may have some merit.

1) Training fasted and used prior to fasted training (which really does not make it fasted training anymore)
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

2) Between meals spaced 4-6 hours apart as a bolus to help maximize MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis)
http://spotmebro.com/layne-norton-phd-on-protein-how-much-and-how-often/
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass
Podcast:
https://www.biolayne.com/blog/news/episode-2-of-muscle-college-radio-muscle-protein-synthesis/
Protein Info:
https://www.biolayne.com/coaching/faq/part-d-protein-info/

3) Used at a meal where there is use of incomplete protein sources to help reach 3-5g leucine in a sitting to maximize MPS. Say if you had a meal of rice and beans, and needed more complete protein. Another example. You eat a cheese pizza and need more protein/bcaa's to help reach an adequate amount of leucine you would add BCAA's to that meal.

When you don't need BCAA's:
1) If your training fed.. Food is overlapping into the post-workout period, so eating a meal and then sipping on BCAA's shortly after constantly is elevating MPS, and never allowing it to reach baseline or to its refractory stages.

2) Sipping on them all day. Totally pointless, that is like eating chicken every 10 minutes.
I will quote Mr. Cooper on this one:

"Don't fall for the "it's a great replacement for sugary drinks" argument. BCAAs are 6 calories per gram, and when sipped in an all day fashion, contribute heavily to both an insulin response and gluconeogenesis. Sipping on BCAA’s takes away from MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis) as levels never get a chance to reach refractory stages before being spiked again The net effect is increased insulin and blood sugar."

In the grand scheme of things, if you are reaching a protein requirement of 1-1.5g of protein a day, and spreading our your meals evenly (every 3-5 hours) the need for a BCAA would be minimal. Especially since most people use a whey protein powder to help reach their protein intake which has a full AA Profile (or should), but we know how companies like to cut corners in the industry.
This should be stickied on the top of the supplements page.
 
macedog24

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A few situations where they may have some merit.

1) Training fasted and used prior to fasted training (which really does not make it fasted training anymore)
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

2) Between meals spaced 4-6 hours apart as a bolus to help maximize MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis)
http://spotmebro.com/layne-norton-phd-on-protein-how-much-and-how-often/
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass
Podcast:
https://www.biolayne.com/blog/news/episode-2-of-muscle-college-radio-muscle-protein-synthesis/
Protein Info:
https://www.biolayne.com/coaching/faq/part-d-protein-info/

3) Used at a meal where there is use of incomplete protein sources to help reach 3-5g leucine in a sitting to maximize MPS. Say if you had a meal of rice and beans, and needed more complete protein. Another example. You eat a cheese pizza and need more protein/bcaa's to help reach an adequate amount of leucine you would add BCAA's to that meal.

When you don't need BCAA's:
1) If your training fed.. Food is overlapping into the post-workout period, so eating a meal and then sipping on BCAA's shortly after constantly is elevating MPS, and never allowing it to reach baseline or to its refractory stages.

2) Sipping on them all day. Totally pointless, that is like eating chicken every 10 minutes.
I will quote Mr. Cooper on this one:

"Don't fall for the "it's a great replacement for sugary drinks" argument. BCAAs are 6 calories per gram, and when sipped in an all day fashion, contribute heavily to both an insulin response and gluconeogenesis. Sipping on BCAA’s takes away from MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis) as levels never get a chance to reach refractory stages before being spiked again The net effect is increased insulin and blood sugar."

In the grand scheme of things, if you are reaching a protein requirement of 1-1.5g of protein a day, and spreading our your meals evenly (every 3-5 hours) the need for a BCAA would be minimal. Especially since most people use a whey protein powder to help reach their protein intake which has a full AA Profile (or should), but we know how companies like to cut corners in the industry.
Awesome details solution!!
 
LeanEngineer

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I would say BCAAs are beneficial for people that train fasted AM and 16:8 IF assuming they are not eating until later in the day, other than that as long as sufficient protein is consumed then there is no need for them.
Agreed. If you're diet is in check then bcaas aren't that beneficial. If you're cutting, training fasted, or not getting enough aminos through your diet then they can be beneficial.
 
tyga tyga

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Useless if you're meeting protein requirements daily or eating every 3 hours.

4hrs+ and no meal in sight id consider using Bcaa/eaa
 

Toff

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I do struggle to get my protein and i hate protein shakes

So, probably useful fo rme then as I do notice a more energetic feel when on them like i can train without weakness
 
BloodManor

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Great answers already
It is a staple for me but I train overnight fasted and my first meal or even a shake is not till a hour after I'm done training. So I'm at almost 12 hours fasted
 
Farlesworth

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Definitely not a staple.

Do want for training fasted on a cut.
 

corinthians

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bcaas for preworkout maybe intra but ( eaas are better) and between meals. If you are a hardcore person with the gym buy them. For 20 $ is a plus. But if you only lift, eat "normally" and just train for health and stay fit save your money.
 

TomS93

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I take them when cutting just as a precaution, for around £20 you can get a decent sized bag that can last a long time. I got a big bag which was on offer and it's lasted me about 3 months. I'd rather spend the £20 instead of risking losing muscle
 

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A few situations where they may have some merit.

1) Training fasted and used prior to fasted training (which really does not make it fasted training anymore)
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

2) Between meals spaced 4-6 hours apart as a bolus to help maximize MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis)
http://spotmebro.com/layne-norton-phd-on-protein-how-much-and-how-often/
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass
Podcast:
https://www.biolayne.com/blog/news/episode-2-of-muscle-college-radio-muscle-protein-synthesis/
Protein Info:
https://www.biolayne.com/coaching/faq/part-d-protein-info/

3) Used at a meal where there is use of incomplete protein sources to help reach 3-5g leucine in a sitting to maximize MPS. Say if you had a meal of rice and beans, and needed more complete protein. Another example. You eat a cheese pizza and need more protein/bcaa's to help reach an adequate amount of leucine you would add BCAA's to that meal.

When you don't need BCAA's:
1) If your training fed.. Food is overlapping into the post-workout period, so eating a meal and then sipping on BCAA's shortly after constantly is elevating MPS, and never allowing it to reach baseline or to its refractory stages.

2) Sipping on them all day. Totally pointless, that is like eating chicken every 10 minutes.
I will quote Mr. Cooper on this one:

"Don't fall for the "it's a great replacement for sugary drinks" argument. BCAAs are 6 calories per gram, and when sipped in an all day fashion, contribute heavily to both an insulin response and gluconeogenesis. Sipping on BCAA’s takes away from MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis) as levels never get a chance to reach refractory stages before being spiked again The net effect is increased insulin and blood sugar."

In the grand scheme of things, if you are reaching a protein requirement of 1-1.5g of protein a day, and spreading our your meals evenly (every 3-5 hours) the need for a BCAA would be minimal. Especially since most people use a whey protein powder to help reach their protein intake which has a full AA Profile (or should), but we know how companies like to cut corners in the industry.
in all fairness it is a great replacement for sugary drinks if you drink sugary drinks.

Also, BCAA(leucine) is good with a lower protein meal to get maximum MPS.
 

BBiceps

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bcaas for preworkout maybe intra but ( eaas are better) and between meals. If you are a hardcore person with the gym buy them. For 20 $ is a plus. But if you only lift, eat "normally" and just train for health and stay fit save your money.
This^. I'm pretty hardcore so for me it's a staple but it's days were I don't use.
 
MARK_

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I like to use bcaa's during my training, which is usually fasted
 

Beta

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BCAAs will increase insulin.......
I'm aware, I guess I phrased that wrong. Let me attempt this again.


Do the benefits of taking BCAAs pre (non-fed) training outweigh the benefits of real fasted training from a fat loss perspective?

*Edited for clarity (again)
 
macedog24

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too bad ... 90% of the forum won't read it haha.
But hey bro.. all about that mouthfeel and absorption :)
Truth for sure:) Well all you can do is put it out there.
 

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I'm aware, I guess I phrased that wrong. Let me attempt this again.

Should BCAAs be taken fasted yes/no?

Berkhan of leangains advocates for it but others say it defeats the purpose of fasting.
Depends on your goal.
 

corinthians

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just take it . if you have to lose fat the bcaas doesn't interfere on that. Do whatever you want. I prefer a coffee and l tirosine and make the ****ing cardio. Go home take a shower, eat my meal ,metformin and tea. Why make all difficult when is so easy!! come on...
 
The Solution

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I'm aware, I guess I phrased that wrong. Let me attempt this again.


Should you take BCAAs prior/during to fasted training or does that defeat the purpose of fasted training.

*Edited for clarity
You do realize bcaa's have kcals, therefore its not fasted training..

A few situations where they may have some merit.

1) Training fasted and used prior to fasted training (which really does not make it fasted training anymore)
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html
.
 

Beta

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You do realize bcaa's have kcals, therefore its not fasted training..
Yeah, I know. My question was whether taking BCAAs prior to fasted training (which means it's not actually fasted, like you said) better than doing actual fasted training if one's goal were fat loss.
 
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Yeah, I know. My question was whether taking BCAAs prior to fasted training (which means it's not actually fasted, like you said) better than doing actual fasted training if one's goal were fat loss.
The total caloric deficit is what matters. Thats it.. Worrying over something that small is splitting hairs. You won't be fasted training upon waking with BCAA's, but i would not engage in something like weight training with no protein or BCAA's in me.. Seems like a catabolic catastrophe waiting to happen.
 

corinthians

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if is before working out fat loss or not take the bcaas better than nothing. If is before cardio i prefer what i said before.
 

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just take it . if you have to lose fat the bcaas doesn't interfere on that. Do whatever you want. I prefer a coffee and l tirosine and make the ****ing cardio. Go home take a shower, eat my meal ,metformin and tea. Why make all difficult when is so easy!! come on...
you sound difficult.
 

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Yeah, I know. My question was whether taking BCAAs prior to fasted training (which means it's not actually fasted, like you said) better than doing actual fasted training if one's goal were fat loss.
Don't take the BCAA. if you want caffeine/yohimbe can help release more fat and keep heart rate at around 135-145 for 45 minutes or so.
 

corinthians

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maybe my english is not so good im from brasil. But you understand im pretty sure you are not an idiot. You take the idea.
 
Jiigzz

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I'm aware, I guess I phrased that wrong. Let me attempt this again.


Should you take BCAAs prior/during to fasted training or does that defeat the purpose of fasted training.

*Edited for clarity
If you consume calories, you are no longer fasted
 

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The total caloric deficit is what matters. Thats it.. Worrying over something that small is splitting hairs. You won't be fasted training upon waking with BCAA's, but i would not engage in something like weight training with no protein or BCAA's in me.. Seems like a catabolic catastrophe waiting to happen.
on point....fasted keep it at around 135-145 heart rate, its the perfect zone of fat burning/muscle preserving...
 
Loudy Rowdy

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too bad ... 90% of the forum won't read it haha.
But hey bro.. all about that mouthfeel and absorption :)
Aware...try letting it dissolve under your tongue #90'sAndroPoppersMethod

Or in the words of BPI....trust us....it tastes good

As a former rep of BPI (2 years)....I never said that. Stereotype much Mr. Hi Tech Rep? You do know that your company makes products for BPI right? I would think you would be a bit more supportive at least....
 
irishiron300

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I take BCAA everyday prior to training and in my intra with carbs. I train fasted in early AM.
 

ericos_bob

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Reading the replies I've come to the conclusion that BCAA's is money down the drain for me.
 

macwad

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maybe my english is not so good im from brasil. But you understand im pretty sure you are not an idiot. You take the idea.
Nice to see another one from Brazil here!
Seja bem vindo! Grande abraço!
 
Wildcat528

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A few situations where they may have some merit.

1) Training fasted and used prior to fasted training (which really does not make it fasted training anymore)
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

2) Between meals spaced 4-6 hours apart as a bolus to help maximize MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis)
http://spotmebro.com/layne-norton-phd-on-protein-how-much-and-how-often/
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass
Podcast:
https://www.biolayne.com/blog/news/episode-2-of-muscle-college-radio-muscle-protein-synthesis/
Protein Info:
https://www.biolayne.com/coaching/faq/part-d-protein-info/

3) Used at a meal where there is use of incomplete protein sources to help reach 3-5g leucine in a sitting to maximize MPS. Say if you had a meal of rice and beans, and needed more complete protein. Another example. You eat a cheese pizza and need more protein/bcaa's to help reach an adequate amount of leucine you would add BCAA's to that meal.

When you don't need BCAA's:
1) If your training fed.. Food is overlapping into the post-workout period, so eating a meal and then sipping on BCAA's shortly after constantly is elevating MPS, and never allowing it to reach baseline or to its refractory stages.

2) Sipping on them all day. Totally pointless, that is like eating chicken every 10 minutes.
I will quote Mr. Cooper on this one:

"Don't fall for the "it's a great replacement for sugary drinks" argument. BCAAs are 6 calories per gram, and when sipped in an all day fashion, contribute heavily to both an insulin response and gluconeogenesis. Sipping on BCAA’s takes away from MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis) as levels never get a chance to reach refractory stages before being spiked again The net effect is increased insulin and blood sugar."

In the grand scheme of things, if you are reaching a protein requirement of 1-1.5g of protein a day, and spreading our your meals evenly (every 3-5 hours) the need for a BCAA would be minimal. Especially since most people use a whey protein powder to help reach their protein intake which has a full AA Profile (or should), but we know how companies like to cut corners in the industry.
Great insight and completely agree! I fully abide by those scenarios. However, how are BCAAs 6 cal/gram? Amino acids are 4 cal/gram (protein). Unless there's something else I'm missing.
 

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Bottom line is this: If you satisfy your protein intake by days end, your bcaa requirements will be met. If you want better alternative than bcaa's intra workout, mix whey isolate into a carb or fruit juice mixture, and you'll be much netter off. BCAA powders will become obsolete very soon...
 

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