Best Mass Building Supp *Not inc x-gels

Oconns28

Oconns28

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Hey guys I know this just seems like another what's the best mass building supp/stack question but I'm in a different situation. I have asthma so after some good advice on here I'm deciding not to risk taking x-gels. It's a bummer because it is so highly recommended on here.

Some of the big contenders seem to be
Ana era Elite
Follidrone 2.0
Massmax xt

Others I have interest in
Chaos and Pain Legendary
Anything Natural from OL

I'm thinking because I haven't tried any of these I'd be best to run a single product to really test it. I'm open to suggestions though!

About me

Age- 31
Sex- Male
Weight- 180
Training- I've been working out for years but just gotten more serious the last 6 months. I'm currently doing booneman77 5 Day PHAT program. I've had great results. I used it during a cut and went from. 190s down to low 180s. 182 lbs today. When I'm ready to start building I should be high 170s or 180.

I work a usually fairly physical job (gravedigger/landscaper) and I workout on my lunch hour. I train hard and fast, workouts last 40 min and sweat is pouring.

Diet- I can get my diet on point tracking my calories but I'm married with 3 young kids all under 4 so sometimes I eat for convenience. I aim for 40% protein, 40% carbs and 20% Fats.

Supplements- currently taking min 5g creatine per day, multi vitamin, fish oil and vitamin C. I also have bulk Beta Alanine and Betaine.

Hopefully that covers most of the info needed.

I don't need a libido boost! Just looking for size and strength!

Thanks everyone!
 

southpaw23

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Honestly, you aren't going to see the results you want with natty Boosters. People will try and convince that $40 for a libido boost is worth it. Natties don't work to any measurable effect(s).
 
cheftepesh1

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Honestly, you aren't going to see the results you want with natty Boosters. People will try and convince that $40 for a libido boost is worth it. Natties don't work to any measurable effect(s).
I tend to agree with this. I would look at some basic ph to start with if you want to see something more from the effects.
 
Oconns28

Oconns28

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I tend to agree with this. I would look at some basic ph to start with if you want to see something more from the effects.
Honestly, you aren't going to see the results you want with natty Boosters. People will try and convince that $40 for a libido boost is worth it. Natties don't work to any measurable effect(s).
I appreciate the reply but at this point I'm just not willing to gamble with the health risks of the PH or anything stronger.
 

southpaw23

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I appreciate the reply but at this point I'm just not willing to gamble with the health risks of the PH or anything stronger.
I hear you and I'm not suggesting that. What I am telling you is that apart from ARA, you won't find anything natural that comes close to those results. Not even remotely close. You'll be disappointed for sure. If you're okay with just a libido boost and negligible strength increases, then go for it.
 
Oconns28

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I here you and I'm not suggesting that. What I am telling you is that apart from ARA, you won't find anything natural that comes close to those results. Not even remotely close. You'll be disappointed for sure. If you're okay with just a libido boost and negligible strength increases, then go for it.
Thanks I appreciate it. So ARA is the only decent natty supp?

Are you talking from personal experience? Like I said no need for the libido boost! Lol
 

southpaw23

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Thanks I appreciate it. So ARA is the only decent natty supp?

Are you talking from personal experience? Like I said no need for the libido boost! Lol
Yes from personal experience, it is far and away the best ergo muscle builder. Natties don't work. Period.
 

southpaw23

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Thanks I appreciate it. So ARA is the only decent natty supp?

Are you talking from personal experience? Like I said no need for the libido boost! Lol
Yes. Personal experience. Natties don't work. Ara works.
 
R1balla

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Oconns28, I will give you a deal. If you log MassMax XT for 4 weeks and you enjoy it, I will personally send you another bottle of MassMax XT for free. That's how confident I am with the product. Although everybody reacts different, all of the logs that we have had on it plus my personal experience with it, it works.

This way, if you like it...you can go ahead and stack it with ArA to have a really solid bulk stack.
 
celc5

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Op, u are not alone in the reality of being a gym rat with kids!

My wife and I negotiate for gym time. I better go on my scheduled night, even if I've only slept 7 hours... after adding up the last 3 nights together! ...and I'm typing this while putting the 9 month old to sleep too.
 
VO2Maxima

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Anything Natural from OL
Just looking for size and strength!
Orig1n. Not going to be as potent as a PH, but as far as natty supplements go, it's an excellent bulker. Helps boost appetite, aids in digestion, encourages hypertrophy via ribosome biogenesis, and the Robuvit may even assist in recovery.
 
R1balla

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Orig1n. Not going to be as potent as a PH, but as far as natty supplements go, it's an excellent bulker. Helps boost appetite, aids in digestion, encourages hypertrophy via ribosome biogenesis, and the Robuvit may even assist in recovery.
I still haven't tried this (which is why I can't suggest it to others). Def on my list though.
 
Oconns28

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Op, u are not alone in the reality of being a gym rat with kids!

My wife and I negotiate for gym time. I better go on my scheduled night, even if I've only slept 7 hours... after adding up the last 3 nights together! ...and I'm typing this while putting the 9 month old to sleep too.
haha ya man gotta go when you get the chance! My wife just signed up for the gym so she is going to get the mornings! I'm at lunch or after the kids go to bed!

Orig1n. Not going to be as potent as a PH, but as far as natty supplements go, it's an excellent bulker. Helps boost appetite, aids in digestion, encourages hypertrophy via ribosome biogenesis, and the Robuvit may even assist in recovery.
It looks interesting!

R1balla has a very generous offer! I wish I had an endless budget
 
f4iguy

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I'm impressed with mass max XT. Eventually I'll post a review when I finish. I'm almost finished a bottle. I've put on 5 pounds and 3 reps on most accessory lifts. That's impressive considering I've been training for 21 years!
 
Jiigzz

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Definitely a good deciaion not to use Xgels! In saying that, OL has some awesome products to choose from. Triumph being one im liking a lot at the moment. Couple that with something like Inhibit E or ergogenics like Citrulline and betaine and you'd be in for a good time!
 
AntM1564

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I'm impressed with mass max XT. Eventually I'll post a review when I finish. I'm almost finished a bottle. I've put on 5 pounds and 3 reps on most accessory lifts. That's impressive considering I've been training for 21 years!
Awesome! How is body comp? Are you going to run it for 4 or 8 weeks?
 

Em3

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Everyone seems to be writing that natty supps dont work.

All I can say is, the day I began taking anabeta elite, my strength Increased Dramatically! I only ran it 4 weeks because it was at the end of my bulk and I was just getting my feet wet with supplements.

Now as for the statement they don't care compare to the more serious "unnatural" stuff. I've never taken anything like that at all, but I would guess their 100% right.
 
f4iguy

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Awesome! How is body comp? Are you going to run it for 4 or 8 weeks?
I'm the heaviest I've ever been. I'm currently 215 at 5'6 around 16% body fat. I was sitting at 210 for several months before Mass Max. I noticed the weight gain the most in week 3 (currently finishing up week 3). My upper abs are still visible. My wife says I look bigger but not fatter. I have two bottles but I'm only planning a 4 week run. I wanted to push calories and this supplement helped do that pretty easily from the increased hunger. I wanted to hit a 480 bench before starting my cut. I'm within 5-10 pounds of that goal so it's time to cut.

One more week with Mass Max. I'll run the next bottle when I get my bodyfat down around 10-12%. I was eating over 4K calories per day and although I'm continuing to get bigger and stronger I'm also getting pretty far from the weight class I'd like to compete in. I need to get down to 195 to set my bench record.
 
cubsfan815

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What does Massmax Xt? Thx
MassMax XT was designed to boost protein synthesis, strength, endurance, and muscle mass. There are a lot of sponsored and unsponsored logs you can read through. Most users gained 4-6 lbs.

performax-massmax-xt-ingredients.jpg
 

pro45

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Get a 64 ounce plastic container with a pouring lid, in a blender put in a banana, 2 scoops protein powder, 2 tbls. peanut butter, skim milk, 2 tbls.olive oil, and blend up and fill the container. Sip on it throughout the day until it's all gone. With your physical labor and training, expect to put on quality mass. Creatine is all you'll need, in addition to.
 
LAH813

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Get a 64 ounce plastic container with a pouring lid, in a blender put in a banana, 2 scoops protein powder, 2 tbls. peanut butter, skim milk, 2 tbls.olive oil, and blend up and fill the container. Sip on it throughout the day until it's all gone. With your physical labor and training, expect to put on quality mass. Creatine is all you'll need, in addition to.
**** skim milk RED CAP BABY RAAHH
 
Oconns28

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Thanks guys. To be completely honest I enjoy trying out different supplements and logging the results.

Any thoughts on DHEA? Just heard it mentioned on a podcast by Mike Dolce but I haven't had a chance to look into it
 

bigsmall

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Folidrone 2.0 without a shadow of a doubt and for all ages. Don't waste your money on other epicatechin products.
Test boosters work when your old - like me, I am 50. Other than that, they are a waste of money.
For the old guys, I like cheap bulk DAA, bulk quality long jack and TD Alpha Gainz DHEA.
 

bigsmall

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I hear you and I'm not suggesting that. What I am telling you is that apart from ARA, you won't find anything natural that comes close to those results. Not even remotely close. You'll be disappointed for sure. If you're okay with just a libido boost and negligible strength increases, then go for it.
Have you tried Folidrone 2.0?
 

pro45

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Thanks guys. To be completely honest I enjoy trying out different supplements and logging the results.

Any thoughts on DHEA? Just heard it mentioned on a podcast by Mike Dolce but I haven't had a chance to look into it
NEGATIVE with the DHEA.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Folidrone 2.0 without a shadow of a doubt and for all ages. Don't waste your money on other epicatechin products.
Test boosters work when your old - like me, I am 50. Other than that, they are a waste of money.
For the old guys, I like cheap bulk DAA, bulk quality long jack and TD Alpha Gainz DHEA.
As multiple people have said before, FD2 isn't just an epicatechin product, and neither is MassMax XT (if that's the other "epicatechin product" you were referring to, since it's been mentioned ITT). I've used and enjoyed both. They're different products of course, but I don't think it'd be fair to consider either one only an "epicatechin product," as they're both much more than that.
 
mechka_grizli

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Outside of ARA, follidrone 2.0 is your best bet.
 
mechka_grizli

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Too expensive for what it is...
I would caution you to try it before making that statement. Don't think I have seen one negative statement about it, and it has health benefits to as well. Of course anyone can go with aas or a ph for the same $ or even less but if that's not the road one wants to take, then ARA and Folli 2.0 are IMO, the top 2 supps for the OP's goals. Since ARA is out for him, folli 2.0 would be the next best thing.

*NO NATTY supp can compare to a PH. But they have their place in the industry
 
Oconns28

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As multiple people have said before, FD2 isn't just an epicatechin product, and neither is MassMax XT (if that's the other "epicatechin product" you were referring to, since it's been mentioned ITT). I've used and enjoyed both. They're different products of course, but I don't think it'd be fair to consider either one only an "epicatechin product," as they're both much more than that.
If you had to pick one or the other which do you feel gave you better results? I know results will be different for each individual
 

boulon

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There is no study that proves that it works, for sarms as to ara, reviews are often paid by manufacturers to boost sales, this is the truth of the industry
 
mechka_grizli

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There is no study that proves that it works, for sarms as to ara, reviews are often paid by manufacturers to boost sales, this is the truth of the industry
I am aware but I have taken EVERYTHING that I recommend and personally verify what im saying. An ARA does have a study to support it. Not a newbie to this stuff and I am well aware of they shady $h!t that goes on in the industry. But again natty supps have their place. Even if you disagree
 

boulon

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Where is studies about ara please, i respect your opinion. But for me only supp recognize by lot of studies have their place...

The first goal of the industry is to earn money, for proof the price of supp...
I stop now, sorry for the inconvenience..
 
muscleupcrohn

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Where is studies about ara please, i respect your opinion. But for me only supp recognize by lot of studies have their place...

The first goal of the industry is to earn money, for proof the price of supp...
I stop now, sorry for the inconvenience..
Isn't the purpose of pretty much any business/company to earn money? What is your point? Having products that work sort of helps make money though, no?
 
mechka_grizli

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Where is studies about ara please, i respect your opinion. But for me only supp recognize by lot of studies have their place...

The first goal of the industry is to earn money, for proof the price of supp...
I stop now, sorry for the inconvenience..
Google the Baylor study of ARA and the University of Tampa ARA study
 
mechka_grizli

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Where is studies about ara please, i respect your opinion. But for me only supp recognize by lot of studies have their place...

The first goal of the industry is to earn money, for proof the price of supp...
I stop now, sorry for the inconvenience..
No reason to say sorry brother. Discussion is what these forums are all about. Nothing negative was said.
 
Jiigzz

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Fwiw a lot of epicat will come from the same supplier, whether someone thinks it does or not. You might have hundreds of brokers for the same supplier, but often the product comes from the same place.

Not always, but food for thought.
 
Oconns28

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Ya man I don't mind people being passionate about their opinions at all just as long as they respect everyone else's. People are welcome to say natty stuff sucks and steroids or PH are the only way to go. It's their opinion and their body so have at it. That's not what I want to do so natty stuff it is. I'm not expecting to gain inches on my arms and 10+ lbs of pure muscle in a month. Just maybe a little something more than I would have and hell i'm ok with the placebo effect as well helping me out!
 
mechka_grizli

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Ya man I don't mind people being passionate about their opinions at all just as long as they respect everyone else's. People are welcome to say natty stuff sucks and steroids or PH are the only way to go. It's their opinion and their body so have at it. That's not what I want to do so natty stuff it is. I'm not expecting to gain inches on my arms and 10+ lbs of pure muscle in a month. Just maybe a little something more than I would have and hell i'm ok with the placebo effect as well helping me out!
Im all for it too. Forums are for sharing opinions and experiences. Dnt mind it at all. So someone who has never really used supps like that, natty supps will make a big impact. If someone is used to a ph, then to them natty supps are garbage. I have used PH's and no the natty supps don't compare but I can tell the difference when im using them. In between cycles, Folli 2.0 and Tonvara true turk is my favorite stack
 
Oconns28

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I wouldn't do it for my first run on any of these supplements but has anyone stacked Massmax and FD2?
 
AntM1564

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I wouldn't do it for my first run on any of these supplements but has anyone stacked Massmax and FD2?
I haven't seen that stack yet. MassMax XT is still relatively new. Most people have ran it solo and loved it. I would think, based off feedback of the to products, that it would make for a great run.
 

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