GDA's??

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    This. I take 1-2 caps of Glycøshield at bed depending on my nutrition for the day which has 75% gymema and is the trademarked Sabina versions GS4+ ... Help lean out / dry out/ clear out excess blood sugar overnight

    Highest % extract available
    Now available at Strong!! https://www.strongsupplementshop.com...d-by-hpscience
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by Logray View Post
    Hi! Have anybody try to take gynema sylvestre before bed? What was the effects?
    No gynema but I take 500mg of bitter melon extract before bed to help lower fasting insulin overnight.
    I don’t have anything for measuring insulin or blood glucose but theoretically it should help
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    This. I take 1-2 caps of Glycøshield at bed depending on my nutrition for the day which has 75% gymema and is the trademarked Sabina versions GS4+ ... Help lean out / dry out/ clear out excess blood sugar overnight

    Highest % extract available
    Do you only do this when you eat within 3 hours of bedtime? I considered taking a full GDA before bed but was worried I’d go hypo

  4. Quote Originally Posted by u_e_s_i View Post
    Do you only do this when you eat within 3 hours of bedtime? I considered taking a full GDA before bed but was worried I’d go hypo
    Yes but i literally always eat 1-2 hours before bed. So I usually take it about 1-2 hours after my final meal of the day and am asleep by hour 3 post meal
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by u_e_s_i View Post
    Do you only do this when you eat within 3 hours of bedtime? I considered taking a full GDA before bed but was worried I’d go hypo
    Unless you are on a strict keto diet, I wouldn't worry too much about going hypo while you sleep. Yes it does happen to people, but you should have a decent amount of glycogen in your liver, and it will dump some when you go hypo so you won't stay hypo for long. Typically if you go hypo when sleeping you will have some night sweats associated with it. Other than that most people are not aware at all when they have gone hypo at night. That being said i am referring to how it works in healthy people and I do not know your situation and am not a medical practitioner. So take that information as what it is. Info you can consider in making your own decisions.
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    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Yes but i literally always eat 1-2 hours before bed. So I usually take it about 1-2 hours after my final meal of the day and am asleep by hour 3 post meal
    Surely it’d be better to take it 10-20 minutes before your last meal as this way it’ll help to blunt the insulin induced by it?
    If taken 1-2 hours after your last meal then it’ll help to keep your fasted insulin level overnight down really well but it won’t blunt the insulin response to your last meal. Therefore if you eat 1-2 hours before bed and are done digesting approximately when you go to bed then insulin will be released when you go to bed and will be in circulation during your first two hours of sleep.
    I’m pretty sure that taking a GDA reduces blood sugar levels but wouldn’t reduce the amount of insulin already in circulation, and so, if you take it approximately when you go to bed then it won’t do anything about the insulin already in circulation.
    Like that’s why the instructions on GDAs usually advise you to take them before meals and not when you’re done digesting it

    just trying to better educate myself

  7. Quote Originally Posted by u_e_s_i View Post
    Surely it’d be better to take it 10-20 minutes before your last meal as this way it’ll help to blunt the insulin induced by it?
    If taken 1-2 hours after your last meal then it’ll help to keep your fasted insulin level overnight down really well but it won’t blunt the insulin response to your last meal. Therefore if you eat 1-2 hours before bed and are done digesting approximately when you go to bed then insulin will be released when you go to bed and will be in circulation during your first two hours of sleep.
    I’m pretty sure that taking a GDA reduces blood sugar levels but wouldn’t reduce the amount of insulin already in circulation, and so, if you take it approximately when you go to bed then it won’t do anything about the insulin already in circulation.
    Like that’s why the instructions on GDAs usually advise you to take them before meals and not when you’re done digesting it

    just trying to better educate myself

    I take it before the meal always. Was just speaking on the pre bed dose
    Owner; Human Performance Science (HPS)
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by u_e_s_i View Post
    Surely it’d be better to take it 10-20 minutes before your last meal as this way it’ll help to blunt the insulin induced by it?
    If taken 1-2 hours after your last meal then it’ll help to keep your fasted insulin level overnight down really well but it won’t blunt the insulin response to your last meal. Therefore if you eat 1-2 hours before bed and are done digesting approximately when you go to bed then insulin will be released when you go to bed and will be in circulation during your first two hours of sleep.
    I’m pretty sure that taking a GDA reduces blood sugar levels but wouldn’t reduce the amount of insulin already in circulation, and so, if you take it approximately when you go to bed then it won’t do anything about the insulin already in circulation.
    Like that’s why the instructions on GDAs usually advise you to take them before meals and not when you’re done digesting it

    just trying to better educate myself
    I think you have a slight misunderstanding regarding the use and mode of action for GDA's. The reason to use them is not to blunt insulin release from a meal. It is to make you more sensitive to the insulin that has been, or will be released during the active halflife of the product. Honestly 10-20 minutes before a meal is not optimal as most gda's need 30-ish minutes to get into the blood stream and take effect on the insulin receptors or GLUT-4 trans-locators.

    As a matter of fact, when using to increase anabolism you want a serious insulin spike associated with the GDA induced increase in insulin sensitivity so you can get as many nutrients as possible into the muscles.

    Yes becoming more insulin sensitive will cause you to produce less insulin, and this is noticeable in dietary changes. So you might be putting those two piece of information together to come up with your hypothesis. However for the most part the improvement in insulin sensitivity from a GDA is transient. Meaning it will not have much carry over to normal life once the GDA is out of your system. Now prolonged use might help due to lower insulin levels during the GDA use allowing the cells to recover from the chronically high insulin levels you might have had before. However this will fade shortly thereafter as the benefits of the GDA are not keeping sensitivity super-physiologically enhanced so insulin levels will have to adjust upwards to do the same job it was with the GDA previously.

    The only reason to take a GDA right before bed after carbohydrates have digested is to try and lower blood sugar overnight to burn more fat while fasting and GH is high. As a result you will wake up a bit tighter, since the blood sugar and any undigested carbohydrates tricking into the bloodstream those first 3-4 hours of sleep will be pulled into the muscle by the minimal insulin still being released, and GDA increasing sensitivity to it.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  9. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I think you have a slight misunderstanding regarding the use and mode of action for GDA's. The reason to use them is not to blunt insulin release from a meal. It is to make you more sensitive to the insulin that has been, or will be released during the active halflife of the product. Honestly 10-20 minutes before a meal is not optimal as most gda's need 30-ish minutes to get into the blood stream and take effect on the insulin receptors or GLUT-4 trans-locators.

    As a matter of fact, when using to increase anabolism you want a serious insulin spike associated with the GDA induced increase in insulin sensitivity so you can get as many nutrients as possible into the muscles.

    Yes becoming more insulin sensitive will cause you to produce less insulin, and this is noticeable in dietary changes. So you might be putting those two piece of information together to come up with your hypothesis. However for the most part the improvement in insulin sensitivity from a GDA is transient. Meaning it will not have much carry over to normal life once the GDA is out of your system. Now prolonged use might help due to lower insulin levels during the GDA use allowing the cells to recover from the chronically high insulin levels you might have had before. However this will fade shortly thereafter as the benefits of the GDA are not keeping sensitivity super-physiologically enhanced so insulin levels will have to adjust upwards to do the same job it was with the GDA previously.

    The only reason to take a GDA right before bed after carbohydrates have digested is to try and lower blood sugar overnight to burn more fat while fasting and GH is high. As a result you will wake up a bit tighter, since the blood sugar and any undigested carbohydrates tricking into the bloodstream those first 3-4 hours of sleep will be pulled into the muscle by the minimal insulin still being released, and GDA increasing sensitivity to it.
    Nailed it. Great post! Thank you as usual!
    Owner; Human Performance Science (HPS)
    HPSSupps.com
    Instagram.com/HPScience
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I think you have a slight misunderstanding regarding the use and mode of action for GDA's. The reason to use them is not to blunt insulin release from a meal. It is to make you more sensitive to the insulin that has been, or will be released during the active halflife of the product. Honestly 10-20 minutes before a meal is not optimal as most gda's need 30-ish minutes to get into the blood stream and take effect on the insulin receptors or GLUT-4 trans-locators.

    As a matter of fact, when using to increase anabolism you want a serious insulin spike associated with the GDA induced increase in insulin sensitivity so you can get as many nutrients as possible into the muscles.

    Yes becoming more insulin sensitive will cause you to produce less insulin, and this is noticeable in dietary changes. So you might be putting those two piece of information together to come up with your hypothesis. However for the most part the improvement in insulin sensitivity from a GDA is transient. Meaning it will not have much carry over to normal life once the GDA is out of your system. Now prolonged use might help due to lower insulin levels during the GDA use allowing the cells to recover from the chronically high insulin levels you might have had before. However this will fade shortly thereafter as the benefits of the GDA are not keeping sensitivity super-physiologically enhanced so insulin levels will have to adjust upwards to do the same job it was with the GDA previously.

    The only reason to take a GDA right before bed after carbohydrates have digested is to try and lower blood sugar overnight to burn more fat while fasting and GH is high. As a result you will wake up a bit tighter, since the blood sugar and any undigested carbohydrates tricking into the bloodstream those first 3-4 hours of sleep will be pulled into the muscle by the minimal insulin still being released, and GDA increasing sensitivity to it.
    I knew taking a GDA wouldn’t completely blunt insulin release but I thought that it would mean that less insulin would need to be released in response to the meal and thus your insulin level after the meal would be lower than it otherwise would’ve been after the meal.

    I didn’t know that chedapalooza was also taking a dose before his meal.

    I’ll start taking my dose 30 minutes before my meals now. Thank you

  11. So if I understand correctly, relatively low blood glucose is benefical overnight. What about training? I measured mine after training yesterday and it was 68.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Logray View Post
    So if I understand correctly, relatively low blood glucose is benefical overnight. What about training? I measured mine after training yesterday and it was 68.
    Really depends on the focus for training and diet. If you are trying to create a higher level of anabolism then you want to have both carbs and insulin present post workout. Even intra workout for that matter.

    Keeping blood glucose lower in general means that the body has to free lipids (fat) and use that for the main source of energy, especially during lower energy use periods of rest or lower intensity activity. Sleep is one of those times.

    So if focusing on fat loss lower blood sugar during training will help out with fat loss. However if the goal is to be as anabolic as possible then you want carbs around your training. You want glucose in the blood triggering a massive insulin release to get as much into the muscles as you can.

    Meal timing and carbs is something that there are many things to be tweaked in many ways and other than playing around with it, or learning how the ins and outs of how the hormones work in conjunction with each other to really unlock your best protocol.

    I can't go into it that deep here, or will not as it is too detailed and time consuming to do for free.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  13. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Really depends on the focus for training and diet. If you are trying to create a higher level of anabolism then you want to have both carbs and insulin present post workout. Even intra workout for that matter.

    Keeping blood glucose lower in general means that the body has to free lipids (fat) and use that for the main source of energy, especially during lower energy use periods of rest or lower intensity activity. Sleep is one of those times.

    So if focusing on fat loss lower blood sugar during training will help out with fat loss. However if the goal is to be as anabolic as possible then you want carbs around your training. You want glucose in the blood triggering a massive insulin release to get as much into the muscles as you can.

    Meal timing and carbs is something that there are many things to be tweaked in many ways and other than playing around with it, or learning how the ins and outs of how the hormones work in conjunction with each other to really unlock your best protocol.

    I can't go into it that deep here, or will not as it is too detailed and time consuming to do for free.
    And it’s also an incredibly individual process. There’s no cookie cutter approach to carb/insulin manipulation. Everyone has their own physiology and it took me about 5-6 years to figure out what works best for my body based on my goals at any given time
    Owner; Human Performance Science (HPS)
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    And it’s also an incredibly individual process. There’s no cookie cutter approach to carb/insulin manipulation. Everyone has their own physiology and it took me about 5-6 years to figure out what works best for my body based on my goals at any given time
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Really depends on the focus for training and diet. If you are trying to create a higher level of anabolism then you want to have both carbs and insulin present post workout. Even intra workout for that matter.

    Keeping blood glucose lower in general means that the body has to free lipids (fat) and use that for the main source of energy, especially during lower energy use periods of rest or lower intensity activity. Sleep is one of those times.

    So if focusing on fat loss lower blood sugar during training will help out with fat loss. However if the goal is to be as anabolic as possible then you want carbs around your training. You want glucose in the blood triggering a massive insulin release to get as much into the muscles as you can.

    Meal timing and carbs is something that there are many things to be tweaked in many ways and other than playing around with it, or learning how the ins and outs of how the hormones work in conjunction with each other to really unlock your best protocol.

    I can't go into it that deep here, or will not as it is too detailed and time consuming to do for free.
    Thanks Guys! Will try my best.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by u_e_s_i View Post
    No gynema but I take 500mg of bitter melon extract before bed to help lower fasting insulin overnight.
    I don’t have anything for measuring insulin or blood glucose but theoretically it should help
    No worries about the use of bitter melon when it comes to this? I have a bottle of BRITE sitting at home that I haven't used because of this.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4248156/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4248156/

    Granted, these are done in rats, but IMO troubling nonetheless.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Ripple2352 View Post
    No worries about the use of bitter melon when it comes to this? I have a bottle of BRITE sitting at home that I haven't used because of this.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4248156/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4248156/

    Granted, these are done in rats, but IMO troubling nonetheless.
    Then again, theres this, showing opposite.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5532313/

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Ripple2352 View Post
    No worries about the use of bitter melon when it comes to this? I have a bottle of BRITE sitting at home that I haven't used because of this.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4248156/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4248156/

    Granted, these are done in rats, but IMO troubling nonetheless.
    In that experiment ‘400 mg dry matter/kg body’ and 800mg of bitter melon were used which is a huge dose.

    https://www.thieme-connect.com/produ...ffsetWidth=980
    1.5g of bitter melon extract causes testicular lesions. 1.5g is the human dose equivalent which that found to cause problems but it’s believed that smaller doses are safe for human consumption.
    This is why I limit my intake to <=1g a day

  18. Quote Originally Posted by u_e_s_i View Post
    In that experiment ‘400 mg dry matter/kg body’ and 800mg of bitter melon were used which is a huge dose.

    https://www.thieme-connect.com/produ...ffsetWidth=980
    1.5g of bitter melon extract causes testicular lesions. 1.5g is the human dose equivalent which that was found and it’s believed that smaller doses are safe for human consumption.
    This is why I limit my intake to <=1g a day
    Right on. I had read something that mentioned the dog study, but didn't actually read it. Also saw a study in Guinea pigs where reproductive damage had occurred as well. I cant blame folks for taking it, considering all of the other potent positive effects it has. We all have to make our own choices. Unfortunately for me, these findings totally scared me off of this ingredient for now.

  19. I was also going to mention how ridiculously high that dose would be. To put it into perspective even at 400mg/kg that would be 36000mg dose or 36grams for someone weighing 90kg...

    Now obviously there are formulas that have to do with rates of metabolism and other things from rats to humans but still this shows that to be an excessive amount.

    If worried about it then go with a different GDA ingredient. Berberine is one of my favorites and the benefits it provides in so many areas are unreal. Only issue is some people get loose stool with it. Those who do not tend to LOVE IT!!!!!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html
  20. GDA's??


    Edit
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by u_e_s_i View Post
    In that experiment ‘400 mg dry matter/kg body’ and 800mg of bitter melon were used which is a huge dose.

    https://www.thieme-connect.com/produ...ffsetWidth=980
    1.5g of bitter melon extract causes testicular lesions. 1.5g is the human dose equivalent which that found to cause problems but it’s believed that smaller doses are safe for human consumption.
    This is why I limit my intake to <=1g a day
    One of the main reasons this didn’t go into Glycøshield
    Owner; Human Performance Science (HPS)
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    One of the main reasons this didn’t go into Glycøshield
    By the way for those interested, I can vouch for Glycoshield being quite effective.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  23. Find/use the right extract of bitter melon, and you'll be good.
    PEScience Representative
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    Find/use the right extract of bitter melon, and you'll be good.
    Are you saying this in regards to the negative effects on the reproductive organs? If so, what do you know that I/we dont?

    Personally I'd love to use my BRITE and not return it, but seeing as how the BMSO was increased with the removal of the tung oil, makes me super wary.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Ripple2352 View Post
    Are you saying this in regards to the negative effects on the reproductive organs? If so, what do you know that I/we dont?

    Personally I'd love to use my BRITE and not return it, but seeing as how the BMSO was increased with the removal of the tung oil, makes me super wary.
    I can't say for sure but for what it's worth, bitter melon's been eaten by some communities for hundreds/thousands of years. In the town where my grandpa grew up it's a local produce and he has six siblings
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