IME creatine HCl is a joke compared to creatine mono

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  1. Post IME creatine HCl is a joke compared to creatine mono


    So when I started bodybuilding again in 2015 I checked out the latest supps and bought into the hype about creatine HCl being better than monohydrate with better results and less bloating etc and it's the form of creatine I've been taking for the most part for the past two years. However, I always had this feeling that my results weren't that great with the HCl.

    One week ago I switched from 3g/day of PATENTED Kaged Muscle creatine HCl to Optimum Nutrition Creapure Micronized Creatine monohydrate and the results are much better. I'm taking it old school by doing a loading phase with dextrose at 25g/day x 7 days, then a maintenance dose of 5-10g/day from now on.

    I get such better strength and muscle fullness and pump from mono than I do HCl, it's like I wasn't even taking creatine until I started mono last week.
    In the gym today I was able to increase both weights AND reps on deadlifts, and the weights felt much easier to move and lighter. The pump was better also.

    I've also gained a few lbs. and my arms are measuring a bit bigger, but my subq water retention is not bad at all with this micronized monohydrate.

    Personally I'll never go back to HCl instead of a good mono brand. I'm posting this because I kind of wish I hadn't wasted my time with HCl by listening to the "experts" and instead had stuck with mono this whole time.


  2. Anyone who is an 'expert', and not simply an 'expert salesman', will tell you monohydrate is as good or better as hcl.
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  3. Or just take both and get them maximum GAINZ!!!

  4. Mono is fine, certainly gets the job done. That said, I'm surprised that switching creatine types caused your deadlift to jump. I wouldn't think results would be any worse with 5g mono versus 3g HCl, but I wouldn't expect results to be significantly better either. You didn't change anything else? Diet, training, sleep, outside stressors, nothing?
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  5. I have to agree with VO2Maxima on this one, are you sure it wasn't anything in your diet? I have tried both creatine HCL and creatine mono (same brands you listed), never noticed a significant difference between them as far as performance goes. I know I had less bloating and took a smaller dosage when using HCL but that was it.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by VO2Maxima View Post
    Mono is fine, certainly gets the job done. That said, I'm surprised that switching creatine types caused your deadlift to jump. I wouldn't think results would be any worse with 5g mono versus 3g HCl, but I wouldn't expect results to be significantly better either. You didn't change anything else? Diet, training, sleep, outside stressors, nothing?
    The only other thing I changed was switching from L-Citrulline to Citrulline Malate but I'm almost certain that had little/nothing to do with it. Actually, I am eating fewer calories as I switched from a full on bulk to a bulk on training days/maintenance on off days diet.

    Personally (again, in my own experience), I'm not even sure creatine HCl even works all that well, if at all. I have never noticed that much from it, and again this time I was taking the patented form from Kaged Muscle that is made by the inventor of C-HCl.

    I kind of think HCl may be another creatine scam like CEE (same inventor btw). I'll never use it again personally, waste of time/money and not very effective if at all.

    Here's my experience with Mono vs. HCl

    HCl:

    I think maybe I'm noticing some extra strength/reps but not sure?

    Mono:

    -Man my muscles feel pumped/tighter and look bigger all day
    -I feel an energy boost after taking it for a few days
    -The weights move easier, I am definitely stronger and feel a performance boost
    -I'm getting a great pump. Even other people in the gym notice

    Deadlift increased by 10 lbs. and 2 reps since being on mono for 7 days vs hcl before. But I added the 10 lbs simply because the weight felt easier and I am guessing I could have added 20 lbs or more for the same reps. Also, I did chins w/ a 35 this week for the same reps as w/ a 25 (hanging from belt) as I did last week. A better test will be bench next week but regardless even for the aesthetic/pump benefits I would stick with mono.

    Here is an article on Hcl I read: https:[email protected]/e...e-424a8ceea6a4

  7. Stick to creapure and you can't go wrong. Cheap and effective.

  8. How many grams of dextrose ya adding with it? That could have something to do with it

  9. I like Creapure Creatine Mono, but I experience sides such as cramping, bloat, water retention, etc. With Creatine HCL, I can use a lower dose, I have zero sides, get the same pump but look drier, and the strength/rep gains are more or less the same. Never used the patented form from ConCret. I have only used bulk Creatine HCL from Muscle Feast, Powder City, and Bulk Supplements. Same results from all 3 vendors.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Justlooking5 View Post
    In the gym today I was able to increase both weights AND reps on deadlifts, and the weights felt much easier to move and lighter.
    Hopefully, your programming is correct, and will have you improving even if you took nothing at all. When was the last time you deadlifted and what were the weights and reps then vs this current session? Everything else either I've never heard of Creatine affecting, or (like your arm measurement) you would need something so precise, as to detect millimeter changes in intracellular water retention between the two - if there is any. Maybe the stuff you were using was bunk in the first place? But yeah, Creatine Mono is the Gold Standard with over 700 studies with a scientific consensus hovering around 80% at last glance.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by hsk View Post
    I like Creapure Creatine Mono, but I experience sides such as cramping, bloat, water retention, etc. With Creatine HCL, I can use a lower dose, I have zero sides, get the same pump but look drier, and the strength/rep gains are more or less the same. Never used the patented form from ConCret. I have only used bulk Creatine HCL from Muscle Feast, Powder City, and Bulk Supplements. Same results from all 3 vendors.
    Maybe it's individual response then.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    Hopefully, your programming is correct, and will have you improving even if you took nothing at all. When was the last time you deadlifted and what were the weights and reps then vs this current session? Everything else either I've never heard of Creatine affecting, or (like your arm measurement) you would need something so precise, as to detect millimeter changes in intracellular water retention between the two - if there is any. Maybe the stuff you were using was bunk in the first place? But yeah, Creatine Mono is the Gold Standard with over 700 studies with a scientific consensus hovering around 80% at last glance.
    The last time I deadlifted was approximately a week before yesterday, when I was still taking creatine HCl and prior to loading creatine mono (and d/c HCl).

    I doubt the creatine HCl was bunk as it was patented C-HCl, and prior to tha I was using the Rari brand which gets good ratings but still did not notice much.

    Personally mono works better and I never wonder if it's even doing anything like with HCl, it's easy to tell.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Justlooking5 View Post
    The last time I deadlifted was approximately a week before yesterday, when I was still taking creatine HCl and prior to loading creatine mono (and d/c HCl).

    I doubt the creatine HCl was bunk as it was patented C-HCl, and prior to tha I was using the Rari brand which gets good ratings but still did not notice much.

    Personally mono works better and I never wonder if it's even doing anything like with HCl, it's easy to tell.
    So what did the programming look like for each session?

    How did you measure your arm circumference?

  14. It was probably just the added calories from the Dextrose. Lol
  15. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    Driven2lift's Avatar

    Just use enough HCl to bring up actual creatine content to 3-5g and it should be equal.

    Monohydrate wins by a landslide once you factor in cost.
    PEScience Representative; Use the code Driven for 30% off at pescience.com

  16. Could also be the loading which increased overall creatine intake compared to previous week. As others have mentioned the added calories and/or insulin spike from loading with dextrose may have been a factor as well.

  17. Science hates this thread.

  18. From a longevity and performance standpoint, CM noted creapure is the way to go. The only issue is some people just can't tolerate it, they will experience some water retention and even raised blood pressure from that even at minimum dosage.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Rhadam View Post
    Science hates this thread.
    Brotelligence always overshadows actual science with peer reviewed studies....I remember when this forum was the opposite of all that.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    So what did the programming look like for each session?

    How did you measure your arm circumference?
    What do you mean? I was stronger, the weights were moving more easily, so I decided to add 10 lbs and got 2 more reps. And the same reps with +10 lbs (35 from 25) with weighted chins compared with the week before. Like I said, I'll be able to tell more from bench press Tuesday as it's the lift I've been having more trouble with making gains on.

    Arms measured with a tape measure.

    Look, I am not trying to convince anyone to switch from HCl if they really like it. I'm posting to suggest if people have been ignoring mono for awhile thinking they're getting something better with HCl, it may be worth it to give mono another try as I'm quite sure it works better for me than HCl.

    Individual results may vary, but I wouldn't be surprised if when more studies are done with HCl it shows it's not as effective even at the same dose as mono for size and strength.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Rhadam View Post
    Science hates this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanp81 View Post
    Brotelligence always overshadows actual science with peer reviewed studies....I remember when this forum was the opposite of all that.

    Really? Cause how many studies show HCl to be superior to mono in increasing performance? How many studies show mono to be effective vs. HCl?
    Sounds like science is on the side of mono being far more proven than HCl.

    And science matters, but studies aren't the only thing to consider. Medical science used to say cigarettes were safe and physician recommended, weight lifting inhibited athletic performance.

    Your own experience also matters a lot regardless of what experts with an agenda are trying to convince you to buy. Jim Stoppani may tell me HCl is going to be more effective and show some powerpoints about solubility in a glass of water, but if I'm getting better results in the gym with mono I'm going to keep using mono.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Justlooking5 View Post
    Really? Cause how many studies show HCl to be superior to mono in increasing performance? How many studies show mono to be effective vs. HCl?
    Sounds like science is on the side of mono being far more proven than HCl.

    And science matters, but studies aren't the only thing to consider. Medical science used to say cigarettes were safe and physician recommended, weight lifting inhibited athletic performance.

    Your own experience also matters a lot regardless of what experts with an agenda are trying to convince you to buy. Jim Stoppani may tell me HCl is going to be more effective and show some powerpoints about solubility in a glass of water, but if I'm getting better results in the gym with mono I'm going to keep using mono.
    Apparently you don't know what sarcasm is.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Justlooking5 View Post
    Really? Cause how many studies show HCl to be superior to mono in increasing performance? How many studies show mono to be effective vs. HCl?
    Sounds like science is on the side of mono being far more proven than HCl.

    And science matters, but studies aren't the only thing to consider. Medical science used to say cigarettes were safe and physician recommended, weight lifting inhibited athletic performance.

    Your own experience also matters a lot regardless of what experts with an agenda are trying to convince you to buy. Jim Stoppani may tell me HCl is going to be more effective and show some powerpoints about solubility in a glass of water, but if I'm getting better results in the gym with mono I'm going to keep using mono.
    My issue, and aforementioned comment, is in regards to the massive difference you are reporting between the two. That simply is not supported by science or common sense. I'm not arguing that mono has an edge on hcl, but it's not a large margin my friend.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Justlooking5 View Post
    What do you mean? I was stronger, the weights were moving more easily, so I decided to add 10 lbs and got 2 more reps. And the same reps with +10 lbs (35 from 25) with weighted chins compared with the week before. Like I said, I'll be able to tell more from bench press Tuesday as it's the lift I've been having more trouble with making gains on.

    Arms measured with a tape measure.
    I wanted to know the exact programming: exact weight, reps, and sets from last week (HCL), to this week (Mono). I know it's a complete shock to some in the Supplement Section, but the human body actually gets stronger and bigger without taking any supplements at all - through progressive overload. I know, huh!? The margin of error with a Tape Measure is so huge, there's no way you could tell the difference between Mono and HCL on intracellular water retention. And I'm not even sure anyone, using anything (drugs), could add enough muscle tissue in one week, to see a difference on a Tape Measure as well. But I'm glad you like it - I'm just a stickler for details, methods and controls when reporting results from supplements - it's hard enough in a research lab with $10,000.00 equipment...

  25. Do you take crea before and/or after your workout.
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