Cold sweats and weird heart rate during workout...what could it be?

[mrhankey87]

Hi guys! Couple days ago at the beginning of my workout I felt a really weird sensation in my chest - like my heart had a couple beats "off" and then I felt an overall sense of dizziness and cold sweats. This made me feel so bad I had to go home, even yesterday I wasn't feeling ok so I skipped workout.

I have to say, I'm pretty sensitive to caffeine but for a month or so I've been taking the same caffeine pill with no side effects at all - the only difference a couple days ago was that I added just 1 cap of Pes SHIFT, which contains synephrine.

Could it be that the sinergy in between caffeine and synephrine over-stimulated me? It was really scary, heart attack-like, so I'm not sure if that's to be attributed to these or the stressful period I'm experiencing.

 

[jameschoi]

Go with drinking coffee and the PES instead.

 

[hambone2493]

I would stop all stims, if it doesn't go away go to the Dr

 

[HIT4ME]

Hi guys! Couple days ago at the beginning of my workout I felt a really weird sensation in my chest - like my heart had a couple beats "off" and then I felt an overall sense of dizziness and cold sweats. This made me feel so bad I had to go home, even yesterday I wasn't feeling ok so I skipped workout.

I have to say, I'm pretty sensitive to caffeine but for a month or so I've been taking the same caffeine pill with no side effects at all - the only difference a couple days ago was that I added just 1 cap of Pes SHIFT, which contains synephrine.

Could it be that the sinergy in between caffeine and synephrine over-stimulated me? It was really scary, heart attack-like, so I'm not sure if that's to be attributed to these or the stressful period I'm experiencing.

I wouldn't mess around with stopping all stims and then see if it goes away. I would go to a doctor and get it checked right away. If the stims did anything, it is likely that you have an underlying problem that you've never noticed before and the stims made it noticeable - but even if you stop the stims and don't notice it anymore, the problem will be there still even if it doesn't cause symptoms.

I know people get upset about this, but human psychology is what it is and it could also be placebo - you know you're taking stims and believe you are sensitive to caffeine, so that makes it so. I am not saying you are "wrong" or "crazy" or anything bad - it's a strong effect; so strong that you wouldn't even trust a study that didn't account for it somehow.

Beyond that - do you have any health issues in the past? Were you ever overweight? Have you had glucose levels checked? What is your diet like? Have you taken any other supplements (especially something containing Yohimbine or Rauwolscine, etc.)?

In other words, what you describe could be as simple as placebo, or low blood sugar, etc. - or it could be a serious heart problem that you need to be aware of right away. Don't stress yet, but get it checked as soon as you can.

 

[mrhankey87]

Go with drinking coffee and the PES instead.

Funny enough, coffee has a worse effect than my caffeine pills - at least I can cut the pill in pieces and know exactly how much I'm taking, but italian coffee is extra strong (I live in Italy).

 

[csline]

Option A) Play a bit of researcher and cut things out to see if symptoms go away. You mentioned you were taking the caffeine pills for a month with no adverse effects, so I'd cut out the synephrine and go back to caffeine and see if symptoms persist. If they stop, you'll have a decent idea that it could have been the synephrine.

B) Cut out BOTH stims, see if symptoms subside, however if they do, you'll have a less clear idea as to what was causing the side effects. You won't know if it was a combination of the two or just the synephrine.

After you have chosen A or B, and then if, and ONLY if, symptoms have stopped, you have another option to reintroduce the compounds you stopped taking and see if symptoms come back. This is risky, because side effects may come back as well, but it will confirm if a certain substance (or combination of the two) is to blame.

C) As always, seek medical advice but this shouldn't come in place of stopping consumption of the caffeine+synephrine, or at the very least just the synephrine

 

[mrhankey87]

I did take Pes SHIFT in the past with no sides though, and it was only just one pill. That was the first time taking it the same day as caffeine though.

Tbh it wasn't even a full caffeine pill, it was approx 120g (I'm really sensitive to it).

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

I get this from too much Y. You get the clamy sweaty palms and a sensation of a mild panic attack.

Don't know if you're dosing with it.

 

[APC80]

Maybe you'd a bit of a panic attack, as you mentioned dizziness and cold sweats plus you're going through a bit of stress atm. Not saying that's what it is you should see your doc about it still.

 

[mrhankey87]

Just went to the Doc, he believes this is from reflux side effects from prolonged use of caffeine, and gave me something against reflux. I think it's bull****, I don't have any heartburn or gastritis and eat incredibly clean.

Also, I don't really think I've ever exceeded 120g a day of caffeine for the last month, the medium being actually around 80g.

 

[hambone2493]

Just went to the Doc, he believes this is from reflux side effects from prolonged use of caffeine, and gave me something against reflux. I think it's bull****, I don't have any heartburn or gastritis and eat incredibly clean.

Also, I don't really think I've ever exceeded 120g a day of caffeine for the last month, the medium being actually around 80g.

I'm assuming you went to your normal dr, and I'm not trying to bag on general practitioners, but he/she just may not have any other ideas...

 

[The_Old_Guy]

If he was just typing on a laptop as you were talking - go to one that doesn't. Assuming your "g" is actually supposed to be "mg" of Caffeine - 80-120 is nothing. Weird, one off shjt happens all the time to people - take a break and see if it happens again without the Synephrine.

 

[fitfreak_CP]

I would stay away from the synephrine/caffeine combo. If that's the only thing you added and then got those side effects I would try that. Also are you taking in carbs preworkout and if your product has yohimbine in it with synephrine and caffeine that can cause a reaction to some people.

 

[hazard12]

Hows your hydration levels? Try making DAMN SURE you drink at the very least 1 gal of water a day and at least 1L 1h before your workout. Dehydration can manifest itself in many ways and I personally have felt it as cold sweats and weird up n down heart rate. Basically my thermoregulation and BP stabilization were thrown off by the lack of water. Once I realized what was happening and started drinking more water it went away. Especially with caffeine users like us, water can just run right through us.

 

[cobri66]

Taking Yohimbine does that to me but don't see that in anything you're taking

 

[HIT4ME]

Just went to the Doc, he believes this is from reflux side effects from prolonged use of caffeine, and gave me something against reflux. I think it's bull****, I don't have any heartburn or gastritis and eat incredibly clean.

Also, I don't really think I've ever exceeded 120g a day of caffeine for the last month, the medium being actually around 80g.

This is typical doctoring nowadays. I imagine when doctors get out of med school they have good intentions and want to make a difference in peoples' lives...but a lot are just their because it's a good way to make money and they were capable of getting through a lot of schooling. Still, they get out, try to do it right, people don't listen, and they realize the only thing they can control is which pill they give you so they give up. Plus, the pharmaceutical companies keep telling them, "If you see this symptom, give our drug" and the doctors don't really need to understand why (often the pharma companies don't want them to know why even) - and the insurance companies keep asking if something is "standard practice" and who recommended it - so they get pressure to listen to the pharma companies so that there is someone to point a finger at rather than if the doctor actually thought on their own.

To make things worse, most people get upset if they go to a doctor and the doctor doesn't prescribe something. Some quick fix pill. So the doctor feels pressure from all sides and just becomes a mechanic of sorts, poorly diagnosing issues and applying drugs to treat symptoms with little understanding.

Did your doctor do an EKG? Check your blood pressure? Take any blood? If none of these things and you have insurance - demand that he does or find someone who will. These tests are how doctors build evidence for a diagnosis. You'd be surprised what you can see with just a little bit of blood work even. If he didn't do at least that, he isn't taking you seriously and you need to find a new doctor that will.

Here is the thing, you describe heart palpitations - this could be life threatening. It may be simple low blood sugar, dehydration, or a number of things - but it COULD be sudden death and that funny feeling may be the only symptom you have before catastrophe. I'm not trying to be overly dramatic here - but those levels of caffeine and synephrine by themselves will not cause any issue in a normal person. If they do, it is a warning that could save your life. Sure, stop taking them, but don't ignore the warning...rule out bigger issues.

 

[Nac]

^Yeah lol exactly, hope he at least took bp reading. Though, problem with bp and even ecg is that, depending on the frequency/burden of the palpatations, you may read absolutely fine (the reading window is obviously very small).

 

[mrhankey87]

It wasn't very fast heartbeat, it was just...weird feeling, like two beats were "off". Doctor did take my blood pressure (which is always perfect) and usually cares about me since he's close to my family, but still I don't trust anyone who's not familiar with sport-related stuff.

No, I don't take yohimbine and don't plan to cause caffeine already is really powerful to me in super small doses. I'll do a blood test tomorrow just to be sure.

 

[Nac]

If you felt off beats, its possibly a PVC. Lots of otherwise healthy folk get them, most unaware of them occuring, and they are not necessarily a sign of something problematic. Its possible, though,that whatever you took (and did) made pre-existing PVCs stronger, or caused them to occur when otherwise you wouldnt have them at all.

I wouldnt fuk with them myself. Without further investigation, Id immediately cease or minimise anything which triggers them.

 

[mrhankey87]

If you felt off beats, its possibly a PVC. Lots of otherwise healthy folk get them, most unaware of them occuring, and they are not necessarily a sign of something problematic. Its possible, though,that whatever you took (and did) made pre-existing PVCs stronger, or caused them to occur when otherwise you wouldnt have them at all.

I wouldnt fuk with them myself. Without further investigation, Id immediately cease or minimise anything which triggers them.

Most likely that, yes. Just searched on Wiki and it definitely looks like PVC, caused by caffeine and stress. I'll just avoid caffeine for a long time - the more I want to take it, the more I always regret it...

 

[Nac]

Most likely that, yes.

Have you ever had lipids and a cbc panel done? Sometimes it can be reassuring to know that at least the fluid being pumped around your veins is in good order.

 

[mrhankey87]

Have you ever had lipids and a cbc panel done? Sometimes it can be reassuring to know that at least the fluid being pumped around your veins is in good order.

Yea always good from my blood tests. Will check again tomorrow just to be sure

 

[The_Old_Guy]

BTW, Synephrine is pretty f'n weak, and almost useless for lipolysis. It increased strength in two studies though (p-synephrine):

the p-synephrine supplement, which was administered to twelve healthy, college-aged men at a dosage of 100mg either alone (S) or in conjunction with 100 mg caffeine (SCF) for three days. On the day on which the subjects participated in a standardized resistance exercise protocol consisting of 6 sets of squats for up to 10 repetitions per set using 80 % of their one repetition-maximum (1RM) with 2 min of rest in between sets, the supplement was ingested 45 minutes before the workout. In comparison to the placebo treatment synephrine alone triggered a significant increase in total repetitions and volume load. When synephrine was combined with 200 mg of caffeine, it also increased the mean power and velocity of squat performance.

 

[HIT4ME]

BTW, Synephrine is pretty f'n weak, and almost useless for lipolysis. It increased strength in two studies though (p-synephrine):

Yeah, this is kind of my concern - he isn't taking anything that is all that strong a stimulant, even when combined. If he is getting issues, it likely has an underlying cause in my non-medical opinion. It may just be a simple, meaningless issue....but if I got heart palpitations taking those doses of caffeine and synephrine, I'd want to know exactly why.

 

[mrhankey87]

Just got my blood tests back - nothing crazy, there's some values veeery slightly above the limit, beside one which is definitely above (alkaline phosphatase, max is 130 I'm 190).

Also, slightly higher azotemia, probably because of the high amounts of proteins in my diet.

It also came out twice in the last couple blood tests I have slight hypothyroidism - wondering if thyrocaps from SNS might help.

 

[Nac]

What were your hematocrit/rbc/platelet counts?

 

[HIT4ME]

Just got my blood tests back - nothing crazy, there's some values veeery slightly above the limit, beside one which is definitely above (alkaline phosphatase, max is 130 I'm 190).

Also, slightly higher azotemia, probably because of the high amounts of proteins in my diet.

It also came out twice in the last couple blood tests I have slight hypothyroidism - wondering if thyrocaps from SNS might help.

Yeah...blood work is a funny thing. The lab standards are not the end-all-be-all. You can be in range on a bunch of things and still have issues.

It helps to see the entire picture if you can blank out personal info and post it...

For instance, my grandmother I believe is pre-diabetic. Even the doctors miss it and refuse to acknowledge because all they look at is her A1C and that is at 5.7 and the upper limit is 5.7 ....so they point to that and say how great that is for a 90 y/o woman.

But they don't pay attention to the fact she has been bleeding and her RBC is way off, which indicates her blood is less than 90 days old and it is already bumping the upper end of the value range. If her cells were seeing a full lifespan, those numbers could be much higher.

It is one of those things that the more you look at the entire picture, the more the story unfolds

 

[mrhankey87]

Also, my testosterone is pretty frikkin low for being 30 yo, 403ng/dl
Nac HIT4ME - These are my tests - even if it's in italian, the nomenclature is quite similar.

https://ibb.co/ggx2oF
https://ibb.co/gd1Z2a
https://ibb.co/fbNVav

What were your hematocrit/rbc/platelet counts?

hematocrit 44.6% (40-50)
rbc 4.62 (4.6-5.6 so it's pretty close to minimum)
platelet 187 (130-400)

 

[The_Old_Guy]

It also came out twice in the last couple blood tests I have slight hypothyroidism.

What does your doctor say about it? Is it sub-clinical or clinical?

 

[Ricky10]

Just went to the Doc, he believes this is from reflux side effects from prolonged use of caffeine, and gave me something against reflux. I think it's bull****, I don't have any heartburn or gastritis and eat incredibly clean.

Also, I don't really think I've ever exceeded 120g a day of caffeine for the last month, the medium being actually around 80g.

Is your Doctor always this clueless? What an embarrassment...

Wish you luck in figuring this out!

On the bright side of things...You live in Italy! I am jealous...

 

[mrhankey87]

What does your doctor say about it? Is it sub-clinical or clinical?

My doctor says I have nothing, cause the value is just slightly above the max - although it always comes out like that in my TSH tests, and I do have all the symptoms related to hypothyroidism so...I do remember doing a thyroid ecography and nothing came out though.

 

[HIT4ME]

Also, my testosterone is pretty frikkin low for being 30 yo, 403ng/dl
Nac HIT4ME - These are my tests - even if it's in italian, the nomenclature is quite similar.

https://ibb.co/ggx2oF
https://ibb.co/gd1Z2a
https://ibb.co/fbNVav



hematocrit 44.6% (40-50)
rbc 4.62 (4.6-5.6 so it's pretty close to minimum)
platelet 187 (130-400)

OK, so...I don't look at blood work all the time, but at first glance my concerns would be with kidney function based on what I'm seeing. Basically that Azotemia indicates you aren't clearing creatinine from through your kidneys, and since you don't have elevated creatine levels (are you taking creatine as a supplement?) - this seems to be a potential issue?

You also have a low red blood count, within range, but just on the low side like you said. From a google search:

If you have a low RBC count, symptoms could include:

fatigue
shortness of breath
dizziness, weakness, or lightheadedness, particularly when you change positions quickly
increased heart rate
headaches
pale skin

So - with just enough research to be dangerous, hypothyroidism and kidney function seem to be potential issues. Often, diseases can be interlinked. And caffeine does increase T4 levels and stress the thyroid, so it may make sense that you become sensitive to it if you are having thyroid issues.

The thing to keep in mind, clinical disease states aren't always the "real" line for disease. For instance, diabetics aren't often diagnosed with diabetes until their blood levels hit 200+ but at that point the damage done is often irreversible. With vigilance, a doctor may notice a patient is having issues controlling blood sugar much sooner - but they won't be able to "clinically" diagnose it because it doesn't fit in the framework, so drugs aren't necessary. But if you were to ask the doctor in this situation - "My blood glucose seems to be high. What can I do to get that back within range?" A good doctor may have some suggestions that help reverse the disease without drugs and with simple lifestyle changes.

In your case, you seem to have good blood work with a couple of "blips" - which may just clear up on their own - but vigilance is wise.

Another question - how long before the blood was drawn did you eat? Were you fasted? Your glucose levels seem pretty darned good, if not low for someone with a thyroid issue.

And, what is your diet like? Do you take any vitamins? I ask because, I don't think high protein is causing your azotemia, but I wonder if you may have a nutritional deficiency somewhere that we are missing...

 

[HIT4ME]

Is your Doctor always this clueless? What an embarrassment...

Wish you luck in figuring this out!

On the bright side of things...You live in Italy! I am jealous...

Yeah, there's always two sides to this. I agree to a point - I have a history with having discussions with doctors only to figure out they actually know less about a situation than I do. My grandmother is a perfect example. The fact is, I'm at a distinct advantage with my grandmother - I have known her for almost 40 years, I know a lot about how she acts 24 hours a day, I know her habits first hand, I know how my family feeds her, I know all kinds of things. I also can focus a LOT of time researching because she is my grandmother and I don't have other patients to take care of. In their favor, they have a handful of years in school and a piece of paper; and some experience with multiple patients.

So, in my corner, I have history with doctors being idiots.

In this case, the doctor has experience with the patient that we don't - he may know something we can't see over the internet. Being just out of range makes a diagnosis difficult - it may be nothing, and it probably doesn't fall within any guidelines that allow him to prescribe treatment, so his hands may be a bit tied.

 

[mrhankey87]

OK, so...I don't look at blood work all the time, but at first glance my concerns would be with kidney function based on what I'm seeing. Basically that Azotemia indicates you aren't clearing creatinine from through your kidneys, and since you don't have elevated creatine levels (are you taking creatine as a supplement?) - this seems to be a potential issue?

You also have a low red blood count, within range, but just on the low side like you said. From a google search:

If you have a low RBC count, symptoms could include:

fatigue
shortness of breath
dizziness, weakness, or lightheadedness, particularly when you change positions quickly
increased heart rate
headaches
pale skin

So - with just enough research to be dangerous, hypothyroidism and kidney function seem to be potential issues. Often, diseases can be interlinked. And caffeine does increase T4 levels and stress the thyroid, so it may make sense that you become sensitive to it if you are having thyroid issues.

The thing to keep in mind, clinical disease states aren't always the "real" line for disease. For instance, diabetics aren't often diagnosed with diabetes until their blood levels hit 200+ but at that point the damage done is often irreversible. With vigilance, a doctor may notice a patient is having issues controlling blood sugar much sooner - but they won't be able to "clinically" diagnose it because it doesn't fit in the framework, so drugs aren't necessary. But if you were to ask the doctor in this situation - "My blood glucose seems to be high. What can I do to get that back within range?" A good doctor may have some suggestions that help reverse the disease without drugs and with simple lifestyle changes.

In your case, you seem to have good blood work with a couple of "blips" - which may just clear up on their own - but vigilance is wise.

Another question - how long before the blood was drawn did you eat? Were you fasted? Your glucose levels seem pretty darned good, if not low for someone with a thyroid issue.

And, what is your diet like? Do you take any vitamins? I ask because, I don't think high protein is causing your azotemia, but I wonder if you may have a nutritional deficiency somewhere that we are missing...

I am taking creatine as a supplement, I wasn't the last 3-4 days but I guess it's still in me ofc.

I was fasted, ate cottage cheese (no carbs) but like 9hrs before. Also I take Follidrone 2 4 times daily, but didn't before the blood test.

I take Orange Triad 3 times each day, and it really seems to help cause I haven't been sick in a looong time - BUT, I just discovered the only thing it lacks is iron, which a lot of the values in my blood test points I'm lacking. My diet is on point, besides not being a big fan of vegetables, but I could start supplementing with greens for sure.

 

[HIT4ME]

I am taking creatine as a supplement, I wasn't the last 3-4 days but I guess it's still in me ofc.

I was fasted, ate cottage cheese (no carbs) but like 9hrs before. Also I take Follidrone 2 4 times daily, but didn't before the blood test.

I take Orange Triad 3 times each day, and it really seems to help cause I haven't been sick in a looong time - BUT, I just discovered the only thing it lacks is iron, which a lot of the values in my blood test points I'm lacking. My diet is on point, besides not being a big fan of vegetables, but I could start supplementing with greens for sure.

Yeah, men shouldn't normally supplement with iron, but there is some indication you may be low. A test for this may be helpful. Do you eat red meat? It may be a better way to get your iron.

Also, do you like broccoli, spinach or kale? It's worth forcing yourself to eat those....

 

[mrhankey87]

Yeah, men shouldn't normally supplement with iron, but there is some indication you may be low. A test for this may be helpful. Do you eat red meat? It may be a better way to get your iron.

Also, do you like broccoli, spinach or kale? It's worth forcing yourself to eat those....

Plenty of red meat, that's why I don't know why my iron levels are always low.