Getting Serious: What supplements are bull crap?

[CrossAerial]

Background: I used to weigh 255, but through diet and exercise I cut down to 185. Then I got put on a college meal plan causing me to gain 15 pounds because endless wings and a desert bar are too much for me. This is the short version of the past two years.


With my background out of the way, I know most of the lingo. I know what to take, what to avoid, and stuff like that when I comes to the everyday supplements. However, now I want to go from losing fat to putting on more muscle. I am a decent size right now, but I know I can do more. I keep seeing different stacks like MuscleTech Clear Muscle with Plasma Muscle and Phospha Muscle. Or like what 5 Star Nutrition showed me today which was Alpha SHR3ADED and two other things to build lean muscle. All for like $200, which was a little bit of sticker shock. Now I know all these things are just trying to do what steroids do while still being over the counter. I wont even open the can of worms a steroids debate can bring, but I do know that SOME supplements can really help alot. I know they are meant to just supplement a good diet and workout, but I think I have the latter two already.

So with all that, what stacks to yall recommend? Right now I take Muscle Tech Creatine, Transparent Labs Bulk and their BCAA's. I just want to build lean muscle without taking a supplement thats gonna kill me. The guys at 5 Star were jacked and everyone who shops there takes the stack they showed me but I worry about "synthetic steroids", their words not mine. I do not want to, nor can afford to take steroids and I know there is a separate section for that should I want to cross that bridge.

 

[Dz23]

Hey Bro, don't be so naive to assume that those guys trying to sell u some **** for 200 dollars are using only that specific product. They will have diet and training locked and also may indulge in some gear. Don't let your quest for gains lead you up the garden path just eat bare food, sleep and train. Nothing out there will give u gains unless it's some actual anabolic or ph or whatever. Just my 2 cents mate, we all wanna find that magic pill but it's all about grinding it out and eating. Or just buy some tren pal ???

 

[APC80]

Just keep doing what you're doing cos trust me you'll waste a hell of a lot of money on supps that MAY give you a slight edge. I wish I'd just skipped the natty anabolics and went straight to the good stuff that works I'd have saved myself a lot of money and disappointment. If you ever wanna go down that road there's SARMs, prohormones, designer steroids or real gear. I'd never push them on anybody but most of these other "supposed" muscle builders are too expensive for the meagre results they provide.

 

[APC80]

Dz beat me to it lol gotta type quicker

 

[Ape McGrapes]

First off: glad you know your way around here. That's very important.

Second: don't go to stores and talk to reps. They usually don't know much about the industry, and are reciting off a peice of paper.

Thirdly: drop the expensive creatine and pick up some cheap mono. SNS does bulk, is high quality and very affordable. They also do creatine HCL which I like much better. Or look into one of the daily ergogenics its that are out now. They are the best bang for your buck. Usually have the best and most proven ingrediants and are one of the few categories where money is best spent. I enjoy Olympus Labs Tr1umph over all, but PES has Ergonine and then there is Finish Line and Creamax(I think).

Finally: stick around here and you will find out what are fan favorites. Most of the sponsors are more than likely the top companies, quality and formulation wise, in the industry. Get your basics down: proper vitamins, fish oil, daily ergogenic and a pre workout if you want one.

If f I had to set someone up with a simple starter stack it would probably be:

PES TruMulti
OL Tr1umph
PES High Volume
Caffiene tabs(incase you need pick me up preworkout)

 

[jameschoi]

I just got a laxogen bottle with a 30 day money back guarantee. Hope it works.

 

[ryanp81]

I just want to build lean muscle without taking a supplement thats gonna kill me.

The fork at your dinner table or wherever you eat is what's gonna build you with the incorporation of good resistance training. Having an optimal level of 25(OH)D is also important.

Without you giving any other info such as your age those are the best recommendations so far.

 

[CrossAerial]

First off: glad you know your way around here. That's very important.

Second: don't go to stores and talk to reps. They usually don't know much about the industry, and are reciting off a peice of paper.

Thirdly: drop the expensive creatine and pick up some cheap mono. SNS does bulk, is high quality and very affordable. They also do creatine HCL which I like much better. Or look into one of the daily ergogenics its that are out now. They are the best bang for your buck. Usually have the best and most proven ingrediants and are one of the few categories where money is best spent. I enjoy Olympus Labs Tr1umph over all, but PES has Ergonine and then there is Finish Line and Creamax(I think).

Finally: stick around here and you will find out what are fan favorites. Most of the sponsors are more than likely the top companies, quality and formulation wise, in the industry. Get your basics down: proper vitamins, fish oil, daily ergogenic and a pre workout if you want one.

If f I had to set someone up with a simple starter stack it would probably be:

PES TruMulti
OL Tr1umph
PES High Volume
Caffiene tabs(incase you need pick me up preworkout)

I looked all those up, but what do they provide that I dont get? I know I should probably get back on a multi vitamin, but the Tr1umph just seems fishy to me. I am not saying it is, but it just seems to be alot of marketing jargon. Maybe I am off basis.

I just got a laxogen bottle with a 30 day money back guarantee. Hope it works.

No idea what that is....

The fork at your dinner table or wherever you eat is what's gonna build you with the incorporation of good resistance training. Having an optimal level of 25(OH)D is also important.

Without you giving any other info such as your age those are the best recommendations so far.

I am 20. As for the 25(OH)D, how do I even check that. :bigeyes2:

 

[ryane87]

Tr1umph is more trustworthy than whatever store rep is trying to sell you. Just because a dude is muscular doesn't he isn't trying to sell shyt. I can't find a clear label, but I can tell you one of two things. Either A) it is crap and uses buzzwords like "pro-hormone" effects to make it seem better than what it is or B) it is prohormones and you don't need or want to be messing with those right. Those guys are always pushing shyt like that on noobz because they don't know any better. Just look around here, gather what everyone is using, and go from there.

 

[CrossAerial]

Tr1umph is more trustworthy than whatever store rep is trying to sell you. Just because a dude is muscular doesn't he isn't trying to sell shyt. I can't find a clear label, but I can tell you one of two things. Either A) it is crap and uses buzzwords like "pro-hormone" effects to make it seem better than what it is or B) it is prohormones and you don't need or want to be messing with those right. Those guys are always pushing shyt like that on noobz because they don't know any better. Just look around here, gather what everyone is using, and go from there.

Ok I will look more into it then.

 

[ryane87]

Ok I will look more into it then.

Definitely a good idea man. Good luck!

 

[APC80]

Ok I will look more into it then.

You're 20 bud you don't need anything other than your own high test levels, good food and hard work in the gym. Wait till you're older to start messing around with expensive supplements. Trust me you do not need them especially at your age!

 

[DUbz86]

You're 20 bud you don't need anything other than your own high test levels, good food and hard work in the gym. Wait till you're older to start messing around with expensive supplements. Trust me you do not need them especially at your age!

Yes your natty test levels are at the peak eat eat eat and lift heavy. Creatine is a solid staple but don't mess with your hormones yet. Anything maybe anafuse or anabeta. Both natty supps still need to be cycled 8 weeks max

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Ok I will look more into it then.

20 years old - Testosterone and DHT probably at the top of the range (~$65 for an online blood test will tell you for sure) - you absolutely need to buy:

ALMOST NOTHING.

SEaL - Sleep, Eat, and Lift. Buy only the most proven (by number of studies with positive outcomes in resistance trained males) Like Creatine Monohydrate, etc...

Go to Examine.com AND suppversity.com and type in every ingredient in whatever you are thinking about buying, and see what they say.

I won't get into defining what "works" means in the supplement industry, but let me ask you this: Is it worth spending $600 per year for an extra 32 ounces of muscle distributed over your entire body? Only you can answer if you think that is worth it to you. Be careful - American's are conditioned by experts in their craft to: Bigger!, Faster!, Stronger!, Now (Yesterday)! This stuff takes time and you have plenty at twenty.

 

[The Solution]

This the most common mistake and thing heard for a normal gym trainee.
What pill or powder can I take that gets me big or can help me shed a ton of weight? This is the biggest problem.
These "Supplements" are usually a big waste of money because the individuals training program and nutrition is off.

What is your caloric intake?
What are your macros?
Are you gaining weight?
What is your rate of gain per week?

You have to realize this is 95% of the puzzle. Not the amount of products you take. Anyone can guzzle down protein shakes and take a bunch of pills but in the end its a waste. If you don't eat for you goal, or train properly all that money in supplements is thrown down the drain.

Answer these questions first before buying anything, or else Your "Supplementing" a bad diet. Which in essence is a lost cause.
Then after that a basic multi (CL OT), Fishoil (Oximega), Creatine (3-5g on training days), and whey protein (use to help supplement protein intake you don't get from food)
is all you need.

 

[wrxwhit]

Gear and food is the simple answer. So many people just throwing there money away on sub par products. Like I've said before, the 10 steps on a wim:

step 1, get your diet down based on your goals. Step 2, reach your absolute max potential based on your goals. Step 3, do not buy any and I repeat any BS latest and greatest legal bull****. Step 4, once you've figured out that gear is the only worth while decision, research and ask many questions before jumping in. Step 5, buy ancillaries and PCT goodies. Step 6, buy test E or C as a base and syringes/needles. Step 7, buy any additional orals or oils based on the goal. Step 8, Work your ass off and eat. Step 9, look back to this post and thank me for not wasting your money on bull****. Step 10, not sure what step 10 is but needed 10 steps...

Or just waste your money on ****!!!

 

[CrossAerial]

This the most common mistake and thing heard for a normal gym trainee.
What pill or powder can I take that gets me big or can help me shed a ton of weight? This is the biggest problem.
These "Supplements" are usually a big waste of money because the individuals training program and nutrition is off.

What is your caloric intake?
What are your macros?
Are you gaining weight?
What is your rate of gain per week?

You have to realize this is 95% of the puzzle. Not the amount of products you take. Anyone can guzzle down protein shakes and take a bunch of pills but in the end its a waste. If you don't eat for you goal, or train properly all that money in supplements is thrown down the drain.

Answer these questions first before buying anything, or else Your "Supplementing" a bad diet. Which in essence is a lost cause.
Then after that a basic multi (CL OT), Fishoil (Oximega), Creatine (3-5g on training days), and whey protein (use to help supplement protein intake you don't get from food)
is all you need.

So you asked:
What is your caloric intake? 2200 cal
What are your macros? 160g of protein, 70 fat, 219 of carbs. I try to limit my carbs though because I easily put on weight.
Are you gaining weight? No, I am trying to cut fat
What is your rate of gain per week? I lose about 1.5-2 pounds a week.

 

[Dz23]

So you asked:
What is your caloric intake? 2200 cal
What are your macros? 160g of protein, 70 fat, 219 of carbs. I try to limit my carbs though because I easily put on weight.
Are you gaining weight? No, I am trying to cut fat
What is your rate of gain per week? I lose about 1.5-2 pounds a week.

Double that intake

 

[CrossAerial]

Double that intake

Ok, so how I can I double my intake while still losing fat?

 

[Ape McGrapes]

Ok, so how I can I double my intake while still losing fat?

You can't, but you won't gain muscle otherwise. Building muscle and losing fat at the same time just doesn't work. Best you can do is limit fat gain through diet, and try to put on as much lean mass as possible.

 

[APC80]

Ok, so how I can I double my intake while still losing fat?

If you're cutting fat just keep doing it till you're lean then go on a lean bulk.

 

[The Solution]

You can't, but you won't gain muscle otherwise. Building muscle and losing fat at the same time just doesn't work. Best you can do is limit fat gain through diet, and try to put on as much lean mass as possible.

Bingo
If your trying to lose weight and you stalled you need to either drop calories or raise cardio

Plus losing almost 2 pounds a week is screaming
Muscle loss. You want to slow that down to 1lb a week max. Trying to cut too fast is a recipe for disaster . It's a marathon not a sprint

If you are not HIiT cardio should be implemented unless your doing a ton of steady state already. You have plenty of carbs you can drop but again you don't need any supps to continue dieting that's all about your intake .

So try dropping 20-25g if carbs and continue. Next time you stall drop 10g of fat that should help you drop another 4-5 pounds in the next month on your next 2 adjustments

You won't be seeing any magical muscle
Gains deep in a deficit or when trying to lose weight. Your body simply does not have the calories to build muscle in a deficit

 

[BennyMagoo79]

Just start bumping up ur calorie intake by 100/day each week and when u start crushing your sets start adding more sets. Drink a ridiculous amount of water, sleep whenever u have the urge to do so, and you will grow.

 

[CrossAerial]

Bingo
If your trying to lose weight and you stalled you need to either drop calories or raise cardio

Plus losing almost 2 pounds a week is screaming
Muscle loss. You want to slow that down to 1lb a week max. Trying to cut too fast is a recipe for disaster . It's a marathon not a sprint

If you are not HIiT cardio should be implemented unless your doing a ton of steady state already. You have plenty of carbs you can drop but again you don't need any supps to continue dieting that's all about your intake .

So try dropping 20-25g if carbs and continue. Next time you stall drop 10g of fat that should help you drop another 4-5 pounds in the next month on your next 2 adjustments

You won't be seeing any magical muscle
Gains deep in a deficit or when trying to lose weight. Your body simply does not have the calories to build muscle in a deficit

Ok so I will keep cutting down to about 185 or 190 and then try to clean bulk and put on lean muscle. Odds are Im gonna need to change my workout routine.

 

[The Solution]

So you asked:
What is your caloric intake? 2200 cal
What are your macros? 160g of protein, 70 fat, 219 of carbs. I try to limit my carbs though because I easily put on weight.
Are you gaining weight? No, I am trying to cut fat
What is your rate of gain per week? I lose about 1.5-2 pounds a week.

Ok so I will keep cutting down to about 185 or 190 and then try to clean bulk and put on lean muscle. Odds are Im gonna need to change my workout routine.

You don't need to change your workout routine if you are cutting or bulking. the only thing you may have to change is your volume when cutting. as cardio rises your volume needs to drop to compensate the amount of cardio being done. Since you are in a deficit doing more volume is something you can't do with excessive cardio. One it leads to muscle loss. Two you don't have excessive glycogen to perform more volume. Three you won't recover from doing as much volume as when in a surplus.
You should be training heavy regardless of your goal, so again not much really changes but cardio and calories when in a deficit.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

How tall are you, and how many times a week do you do cardio or weights (lifting weights doesn't really burn too many calories however)? What do you estimate your body-fat percentage to be (how many abs can you see unflexed / look up the BF% pictures on Google)? How many "training years" do you have?

I'm not a big believer in changing "workout routines" based on what you are doing however. Maybe for competitors trying to get to 5% it matters, but for "regular dudes" just trying to look good naked - a good periodized program for strength and hypertrophy - always striving to increase reps/weight/sets up to your maximum recoverable volume - should work well.

 

[Justlooking5]

Sometimes I feel like almost all supplements other than whey, creatine monohydrate (not other creatines hcl etc), some fat burner compounds (guarana carnitine etc.) and fish oil are mostly crap.

 

[CrossAerial]

You don't need to change your workout routine if you are cutting or bulking. the only thing you may have to change is your volume when cutting. as cardio rises your volume needs to drop to compensate the amount of cardio being done. Since you are in a deficit doing more volume is something you can't do with excessive cardio. One it leads to muscle loss. Two you don't have excessive glycogen to perform more volume. Three you won't recover from doing as much volume as when in a surplus.
You should be training heavy regardless of your goal, so again not much really changes but cardio and calories when in a deficit.

I probably should step my cardio game up then!

 

[CrossAerial]

How tall are you, and how many times a week do you do cardio or weights (lifting weights doesn't really burn too many calories however)? What do you estimate your body-fat percentage to be (how many abs can you see unflexed / look up the BF% pictures on Google)? How many "training years" do you have?

I'm not a big believer in changing "workout routines" based on what you are doing however. Maybe for competitors trying to get to 5% it matters, but for "regular dudes" just trying to look good naked - a good periodized program for strength and hypertrophy - always striving to increase reps/weight/sets up to your maximum recoverable volume - should work well.

I am 5'10" and my workout routine is like a HIIT workout. I try to keep my heart rate elevated. I lift 5-6 days a week. My body fat is between 20-25% (gotta love those love handles). As for training years, I worked out all through highschool but got really serious about 2-3 years ago. So about 4-5 years total with lets say 2 years of focused training.

 

[jameschoi]

I took Fenugreek and Cordyceps this morning and I'm still feeling the pump. One or both of the supps are working overtime.

 

[APC80]

I took Fenugreek and Cordyceps this morning and I'm still feeling the pump. One or both of the supps are working overtime.

What's Cordyceps? Is fenugreek not just a herb I remember taking a natty test booster with that in it.

 

[jameschoi]

What's Cordyceps? Is fenugreek not just a herb I remember taking a natty test booster with that in it.

I just read about cordy and fenu on AM and bought them in powder. They seem to work.

 

[APC80]

I just read about cordy and fenu on AM and bought them in powder. They seem to work.

Fenugreek definitely helps the libido I had to start wearing loose boxers lol was like being 14 again

 

[jt75]

What's Cordyceps? Is fenugreek not just a herb I remember taking a natty test booster with that in it.

Cordyceps sinensis is a type of fungus used in sports supplements. Tons of different varieties. Some websites claim it gives endurance, more energy,improved lung function and better libido among other things although I haven't tried it myself.

 

[jameschoi]

Cordyceps sinensis is a type of fungus used in sports supplements. Tons of different varieties. Some websites claim it gives endurance, more energy,improved lung function and better libido among other things although I haven't tried it myself.

I took (Cordyceps,Fenugreek,Baking Soda,Citrulline) and had a huge pump for the hour at the gym today. I wish I could isolate which supp gave me the energy to keep going.

 

[jt75]

Take them solo on certain days and you'll know for sure

 

[APC80]

I took (Cordyceps,Fenugreek,Baking Soda,Citrulline) and had a huge pump for the hour at the gym today. I wish I could isolate which supp gave me the energy to keep going.

Citrulline malate will give ya a good pump. That's a crazy mix why baking soda?

 

[APC80]

Cordyceps sinensis is a type of fungus used in sports supplements. Tons of different varieties. Some websites claim it gives endurance, more energy,improved lung function and better libido among other things although I haven't tried it myself.

No wonder I'd never heard of it's too big a word for a thick Hun like me

 

[jt75]

It buffers production of lactic acid

 

[jameschoi]

Citrulline malate will give ya a good pump. That's a crazy mix why baking soda?

I read about it on ergo log and they said it gives you a huge pump and I have a boatload of it laying around. I'm like a human drug trial right now taking all the supps. I bought msten and M1-Test but chickened out and returned them lol.
And I am taking 100mg of Laxogenin which I started this past saturday.

 

[jt75]

No wonder I'd never heard of it's too big a word for a thick Hun like me

U said it lol

 

[APC80]

I read about it on ergo log and they said it gives you a huge pump and I have a boatload of it laying around. I'm like a human drug trial right now taking all the supps. I bought msten and M1-Test but chickened out and returned them lol.
And I am taking 100mg of Laxogenin which I started this past saturday.

Should've sent them my way I'd have taken them for ya.

 

[ryanp81]

Gear and food is the simple answer. Step 6, buy test E or C as a base and syringes/needles. Step 7, buy any additional orals or oils based on the goal.

Recommending a 20 year old steroids ( which BTW hasn't given any other info other than his age ) is absolutely the wrong advice and just negligent.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I am 5'10" and my workout routine is like a HIIT workout. I try to keep my heart rate elevated. I lift 5-6 days a week. My body fat is between 20-25% (gotta love those love handles). As for training years, I worked out all through highschool but got really serious about 2-3 years ago. So about 4-5 years total with lets say 2 years of focused training.

One of theese should get you close - monitor caliper/scale/tape measure and adjust by 100kcal up or down.