9-MBC

[Supercellular]

I've seen that Predator has a new nootropic out that they are saying is a dopaminergic called 9-MBC (9-methyl beta-carboline)


Does anyone here have any experience of this or can shed some light on how it might work for someone looking to enhance dopamine output consistently (both DA 1 and DA 2 receptors)?

 

[PredNutrition]

We can ask the manufacturer to help here, it is unlikely we think that anyone on here will have experience with 9-MBC.

 

[deanX]

Curious with 9-MBC as well. Hope the manufacturer would chime in.

 

[saywutrly]

Some quick research shows that this is active at benzodiazepine receptor sites. I don't think the structure implies DA activity but will defer to someone with greater knowledge than I to confirm.

Hopefully the mfr will have more info.

 

[PredNutrition]

We have asked the manufacturer and leaving aside the studies they have sent us (not sure we can post pdf's here), this is their response on dopamine receptors.

"9-methyl beta carboline elevates dopamine levels by stimulating dopaminergic neurons. It stimulates hippocampal dopamine levels preferentially, so may particularly improve memory-related tasks. 9-MBC also protects those neurons, and can even regenerate them in certain circumstances. 9-MBC is therefore best characterized as a neuroprotective, neurorestorative and dopaminergic nootropic.

It doesn't interact with dopamine receptors directly; or, if it does so, it's to very limited extent."

 

[saywutrly]

This thing could be very unique if it can influence both pathways in some shape or form. Hopefully they clear you to post the studies!

For some really fun food for thought, if it stimulates DA activity, could this be a possible middle ground in prolactin control potency? For example, fitting between something like Inhibit-P and pharms like pramipexole and cabergoline. That's strictly a postulation and is not based on any direct research I've read or heard of.

 

[Supercellular]

This thing could be very unique if it can influence both pathways in some shape or form. Hopefully they clear you to post the studies!

For some really fun food for thought, if it stimulates DA activity, could this be a possible middle ground in prolactin control potency? For example, fitting between something like Inhibit-P and pharms like pramipexole and cabergoline. That's strictly a postulation and is not based on any direct research I've read or heard of.

I'd be interested in seeing those studies as well but why would dopamine influence prolactin and why would that be of concern unless it's trying to combat gyno?

 

[saywutrly]

I'd be interested in seeing those studies as well but why would dopamine influence prolactin and why would that be of concern unless it's trying to combat gyno?

This is the action by which all standard prolactin control measures function. Pramipexole and cabergoline are both dopamine agonists.

And, yes, prolactin control is important for some of us to prevent tits from popping up where they don't otherwise belong. There are additional ill effects from high prolactin as well. It doesn't present itself with every hormone one can take, but it can be necessary for several of the most effective.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

The Googles:

https://www.google.com/#q=9-methyl+beta-carboline

 

[saywutrly]

The Googles:

https://www.google.com/#q=9-methyl+beta-carboline

That's what I did. I saw the study asserting DA activity, I just said that it didn't structurally resemble any DA-active compounds of which I was aware. It's a very nifty compound on paper for sure. Reddit also has some great reviews on it.

 

[VaughnTrue]

gonna assume this isn't found in nature and isn't DSHEA compliant?

 

[Afi140]

gonna assume this isn't found in nature and isn't DSHEA compliant?

Since it's a predator exclusive I doubt they care.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Since it's a predator exclusive I doubt they care.

yea I'm not saying anyone in the UK should care, I just meant for odds of seeing it in the US market

 

[Jebrook]

Subbed

 

[The_Old_Guy]

gonna assume this isn't found in nature and isn't DSHEA compliant?

The Wikipedia article states several natural sources - best one from (I assume) a Syrian Plant (that might be pricey to obtain at the current moment - LOL!)

 

[VaughnTrue]

The Wikipedia article states several natural sources - best one from (I assume) a Syrian Plant (that might be pricey to obtain at the current moment - LOL!)

that articles lists beta-carbolines as naturally occuring, but not the 9-methyl variant

 

[The_Old_Guy]

that articles lists beta-carbolines as naturally occuring, but not the 9-methyl variant

Yea, not a Chemist, so good call if correct. Is anything xMethylx natural?

 

[rtmilburn]

Yea, not a Chemist, so good call if correct. Is anything xMethylx natural?

Caffeine is tri methylated

 

[VaughnTrue]

Yea, not a Chemist, so good call if correct. Is anything xMethylx natural?

plenty of methyls found in nature:

Hell, caffeine is packing tri-methyl potency

 

[VaughnTrue]

Caffeine is tri methylated

plenty of methyls found in nature:

Hell, caffeine is packing tri-methyl potency

dammit. youre too fast

 

[rtmilburn]

dammit. youre too fast

Haha by milliseconds

 

[ryane87]

dammit. youre too fast

His old lady says the same thing

 

[rtmilburn]

His old lady says the same thing

Not what you were talking me last night when you begging for it!!!

 

[ryane87]

Not what you were talking me last night when you begging for it!!!

Begging is a strong word...

 

[rtmilburn]

Begging is a strong word...

Ouch that hurts​

 

[PredNutrition]

that articles lists beta-carbolines as naturally occuring, but not the 9-methyl variant

Vaughn, we had some when I saw you in London. We would have given you some to try! Hope you are doing well!

With respect to the studies, we have requested they get sent over. We have one which is 53 pages long but a PDF and this forum only seems to let you load links to url's. With that said here is a copy and paste of the main finding. If anyone would like the full PDF drop us a pm with your email and we will get it sent across but be warned, it is not exactly easy reading.

"The main findings of this study are the observations
that 9-me-BC has restorative effects in an animal
model of Parkinson’s disease. This has never been reported
before and has been reproduced recently by experiments
with primary dopaminergic neurons from
embryonic mice [63]. In search of an explanation of
the underlying mechanisms we found that 9-me-BC
improved the effectiveness of the respiratory chain
and promoted the gene transcription of neurotrophins

 

[VaughnTrue]

Vaughn, we had some when I saw you in London. We would have given you some to try! Hope you are doing well!

With respect to the studies, we have requested they get sent over. We have one which is 53 pages long but a PDF and this forum only seems to let you load links to url's. With that said here is a copy and paste of the main finding. If anyone would like the full PDF drop us a pm with your email and we will get it sent across but be warned, it is not exactly easy reading.

"The main findings of this study are the observations
that 9-me-BC has restorative effects in an animal
model of Parkinson’s disease. This has never been reported
before and has been reproduced recently by experiments
with primary dopaminergic neurons from
embryonic mice [63]. In search of an explanation of
the underlying mechanisms we found that 9-me-BC
improved the effectiveness of the respiratory chain
and promoted the gene transcription of neurotrophins

damn...so close!



I don't have any doubt this stuff works. Read up on it quite a bit so far, and looks cool.

 

[cubs1987]

hmmm peaked my interest...

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Caffeine is tri methylated

Yes, I can be an idiot sometimes. Thanks!

 

[PredNutrition]

In lieu of being able to post studies here, here are a few of the titles worth searching pubmed for:

"9-Methyl-B-Carboline-induced cognitive enhancement is associated with elevated hippocampal dopamine levels and dendritic synaptic proliferation"
"9-Methyl-
-carboline has restorative effects in an animal model of Parkinson’s disease"
"Good guys from a shady family"
"The exceptional properties of 9-methyl-beta-carboline: stimulation, protection and regeneration of dopaminergic neurons coupled with anti-inflammatory effects"

 

[Supercellular]

Any chance of describing what effects someone could expect from this vs other nootropics?

 

[saywutrly]

gonna assume this isn't found in nature and isn't DSHEA compliant?

Maaaannnnn don't rain on the parade.

The Wikipedia article states several natural sources - best one from (I assume) a Syrian Plant (that might be pricey to obtain at the current moment - LOL!)

LOL! This was cheap back in ~2012. I tried some in my try-everything-psychoactive days. It's MAOI properties certainly made other compounds more interesting, and it was mildly interesting in it's own right.

With respect to the studies, we have requested they get sent over. We have one which is 53 pages long but a PDF and this forum only seems to let you load links to url's. With that said here is a copy and paste of the main finding. If anyone would like the full PDF drop us a pm with your email and we will get it sent across but be warned, it is not exactly easy reading.

PM Sent. Thank you for making the information readily available for us. To make things easier on you if this arises again, you can always make a public Google Drive folder, load it up, and paste the link to it here.

 

[Supercellular]

Maaaannnnn don't rain on the parade.


LOL! This was cheap back in ~2012. I tried some in my try-everything-psychoactive days. It's MAOI properties certainly made other compounds more interesting, and it was mildly interesting in it's own right.

Can you elaborate in terms of what it did for you both by itself and with other compounds?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Maaaannnnn don't rain on the parade.

DSHEA only applies to US based companies...

 

[redman24]

this is severely excitotoxic, dangerous, potentially life threatening in combinations from medications to just simple food possibly causing serotonine-syndrome, grand-mal seizures and just generally is not something that should be sold as a supplement. one needs to have extensive psychoneuropharmacological and nutritional knowledge in order to use this compound and not even doctors will fully understand and in case of a life thratening situation in the hospital nobody will know what is wrong or is going on or how to proceed. great compound.

 

[redman24]

hm, either people just want to ignore me (i am used to this, things change when i post several hundred times and about a million words) or there is no argument against the obvious absolute catastrophy this compound is. i think it should be banned and disappear forever and i know that pure diacetylmorphine-hcl aka heroin is non-toxic and even has benefits for ones health. but this stuff is the worst **** i have ever seen. it has the opposite effect on gaba receptors as benzodiazepines, which are strongly neuroprotectiv, rducing cortisol and glutamate, therefore strengthening the immune system and cns. this compound here is almost seizure in a bottle, if not then it will fry the brain in a glutamatergic storm of excitotoxicity.

PUKE

 

[redman24]

reggie johal is a sociopath who has no ethics and lies and deception and harm to customers are common practice in order to make moremoremore.
sad story. pushing **** like erase pro which does nearly nothing. why isn't myokems alphadex hyped as its the best AI ever created otc and better than arimidex by miles and possibly as strong as aromasin COMBINED with tamoxifen.

im going to try to speak to someone at myokem, they are the only company i respect, not olympus and their pseudoscience resulting in people puking whilst having psychotic episodes from 5 designerstims. yeah, call them whatever plant, in the end they are unpredictable synthetics which can lead to major neurochemical problems. but yeah, it was the flavor, not using 5 drugs randomly tossed in a bottle...

 

[rtmilburn]

hm, either people just want to ignore me (i am used to this, things change when i post several hundred times and about a million words) or there is no argument against the obvious absolute catastrophy this compound is. i think it should be banned and disappear forever and i know that pure diacetylmorphine-hcl aka heroin is non-toxic and even has benefits for ones health. but this stuff is the worst **** i have ever seen. it has the opposite effect on gaba receptors as benzodiazepines, which are strongly neuroprotectiv, rducing cortisol and glutamate, therefore strengthening the immune system and cns. this compound here is almost seizure in a bottle, if not then it will fry the brain in a glutamatergic storm of excitotoxicity.

PUKE

Can you back up your claims that 9mbc is toxic? As everything that I've read had said other wise.

 

[rtmilburn]

redman24 please provide evidence that 9mbc is neurotoxin

 

[redman24]

yes. the compound has the opposite effect on gaba receptors than benzodiazepines. the exact opposite. benzodiazepines are neuroprotective by changing the structure of the receptor and allowing more gaba to attach to it. gaba is an injibitory neurotransmitter, reduces cortisol and glutamate and indirectly strenghtens a weakened immune system which has been suppressed by excess cortisol. also benzodiazepines are anticonvulsive and prevent seizures.

yes, the have the one problem, you cannot just stop them after long term use but need to taper the dose slowly. but other people need medications always or they die so...

anyways, the opposite effects would be excitation, glutamate and cortisol increase, a weakened immne system, brain fog or mashed potatoe brain as i like to call it when glutamate goes nuts and potentially even seizures. there is also some evidence suggesting that combining the compound with certain medication may lead to serotonin syndrome.

people with damaged brains are put in an artificial coma. this is to protcct their brain and let it heal. they are not given excitatory neurotransmitters, especially not compounds which have the exacct opposite effect of the best neuroprotectants available in medicine.

please do not ask for studies. google will show you that they work as opposite equivalents to benzos and the benefits of benzos are easily found as well. now why would anyone take this when there are much safer more predictable alternatives to causing whatever effects are desired here, may it be dopamine related or even, although i can not understand why anyone would want this, relate to increased glutamatergic activity.

 

[ManuR]

reggie johal is a sociopath who has no ethics and lies and deception and harm to customers are common practice in order to make moremoremore.
sad story. pushing **** like erase pro which does nearly nothing. why isn't myokems alphadex hyped as its the best AI ever created otc and better than arimidex by miles and possibly as strong as aromasin COMBINED with tamoxifen.

im going to try to speak to someone at myokem, they are the only company i respect, not olympus and their pseudoscience resulting in people puking whilst having psychotic episodes from 5 designerstims. yeah, call them whatever plant, in the end they are unpredictable synthetics which can lead to major neurochemical problems. but yeah, it was the flavor, not using 5 drugs randomly tossed in a bottle...

alphadex is good.. but are you rly comparing it to strong pharma AIs which have tons of studies behind them?
i usually read your stuff and you are often correct, but no.. alphadex aint better than aromasin+tamox for lowering estro.. and no, it is also not better than arimidex if lowering estro is the only goal and sides aside..

 

[redman24]

acacetin alone outperforms 1mg arimidex/day and is not even their main AI. if they are correct on their brassaiopsis being more potent than we are in the range of aromasin. acacetin is also a serm and so is tracheloside. i currently use 300mg oral trestolone and usually would use 25mg aromasin or 200mg TD formestane but am switching to alphadex tomorrow if it arrives. i am connvinced it will improve overall appearance and prevent gyno just as well as the beforementioned or even better.

 

[rtmilburn]

yes. the compound has the opposite effect on gaba receptors than benzodiazepines. the exact opposite. benzodiazepines are neuroprotective by changing the structure of the receptor and allowing more gaba to attach to it. gaba is an injibitory neurotransmitter, reduces cortisol and glutamate and indirectly strenghtens a weakened immune system which has been suppressed by excess cortisol. also benzodiazepines are anticonvulsive and prevent seizures.

yes, the have the one problem, you cannot just stop them after long term use but need to taper the dose slowly. but other people need medications always or they die so...

anyways, the opposite effects would be excitation, glutamate and cortisol increase, a weakened immne system, brain fog or mashed potatoe brain as i like to call it when glutamate goes nuts and potentially even seizures. there is also some evidence suggesting that combining the compound with certain medication may lead to serotonin syndrome.

people with damaged brains are put in an artificial coma. this is to protcct their brain and let it heal. they are not given excitatory neurotransmitters, especially not compounds which have the exacct opposite effect of the best neuroprotectants available in medicine.

please do not ask for studies. google will show you that they work as opposite equivalents to benzos and the benefits of benzos are easily found as well. now why would anyone take this when there are much safer more predictable alternatives to causing whatever effects are desired here, may it be dopamine related or even, although i can not understand why anyone would want this, relate to increased glutamatergic activity.

I raise your broscience with actually science. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20374418

Trust me I've read plenty on this!! All the evidence points towards it be neuroproctive.

 

[NeuroTropic]

Looks interesting. I'll give this a try and if it works come out with it in the US.

 

[NeuroTropic]

Any chance of describing what effects someone could expect from this vs other nootropics?

Seems to help regenerate the dopamine producing part of the brain. Completely different approach from taking Dopamine precursors, MAO-B inhibitors (this blocks the enzyme that breaks down dopamine and phenylethylamine) or a dopamine agonist (which mimic dopamine of certain receptors).

More of different type of dopamergic response so may effect motivation, focus, memory, drive, sex, some processing abilities, etc. But instead of supplementing, mimicking, or blocking age related declines this may have more long term effects (similar to NeuroReGen) by rebuilding the dopamine producing cells and enhancing them. A Neuro-Anabolic effect.

I definitely suggest trying each method or route of increasing dopamine or effecting it's receptors using clinically studied chemicals in safe doses. Some may respond better one pathway vs another. For me deprenyl is probably the strongest I've tried.

 

[redman24]

no need to read. broscience? the most neuroprotective state there is is a coma. on the other end of the spectrum is a seizure. if coma is on the left ans eizure on the right, benzodiazepines are quite far left, having the opposite effect on gaba receptors than bdz basically means your brain is being fried and this causes major cognitive problems. benzos are the most neuroprotective medication there is. just explain how the oppiste equivalent cannot be harmful. who wants a brain which is not even anywhere near the middle but far towards seizure, which is the extreme of excitation. this is very close though. not slight excitation but...its ****ing self-evident. cant this humanity think?

 

[rtmilburn]

no need to read. broscience? the most neuroprotective state there is is a coma. on the other end of the spectrum is a seizure. if coma is on the left ans eizure on the right, benzodiazepines are quite far left, having the opposite effect on gaba receptors than bdz basically means your brain is being fried and this causes major cognitive problems. benzos are the most neuroprotective medication there is. just explain how the oppiste equivalent cannot be harmful. who wants a brain which is not even anywhere near the middle but far towards seizure, which is the extreme of excitation. this is very close though. not slight excitation but...its ****ing self-evident. cant this humanity think?

Fuk off

 

[redman24]

well i can say i have helped and improved the lives of countless of people misdiagnosed by specialists and modern medicine. i dont know what its called in the US but here in germany doctors use a ****ing sheet containing illnesses with numbers being categorized into somatic, psychosomatic, psychiatric etc.
tick some boxes, diagnose the patient. suddenly the cfs patient who needs inhibitory neurotransmission is given an ssnri. that is the awesomeness of arrogant idiots who dont see whats in front of them but their ****ing factsheet.

 

[redman24]

if you want. nobody seems to be indifferent. all i hearr is either: **** off and die you wannabe expert, or thank you (repeated 200 times) for making my life worth living again after 15 years of chronic illness.

 

[rtmilburn]

no need to read. broscience? the most neuroprotective state there is is a coma. on the other end of the spectrum is a seizure. if coma is on the left ans eizure on the right, benzodiazepines are quite far left, having the opposite effect on gaba receptors than bdz basically means your brain is being fried and this causes major cognitive problems. benzos are the most neuroprotective medication there is. just explain how the oppiste equivalent cannot be harmful. who wants a brain which is not even anywhere near the middle but far towards seizure, which is the extreme of excitation. this is very close though. not slight excitation but...its ****ing self-evident. cant this humanity think?

I provided scientific proof that the substance you have been bashing was safe. You revert back to more broscience. Also benzo can defiantly can be neurotoxic in high doses!!! So can other gaba antagonists *cough cough alcohol cough cough*.