"The scrawny to brawny quest"-Experiment 1/high dose Laxogenin base

extremophileX

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I am about to do a little experiment with the following supplements bellow. I will start by getting a Body Composition index test before and after to observe any muscle gained, lost, or neither.


I will start by getting a DEXA scan, scheduled for April the 10th, and getting a DEXA scan after approximately 8 weeks later. By telling the difference in weight and fat percentage I should be able to calculate any muscle gained or lack of muscle gained.

I will "hit" each muscle group 3 times in 7 days and take an 8th day off, so instead of doing 7 day cycle I will do 8 day cycles.


The supplements include

*400mg of transdermal laxogeinin--(more than twice the recommended dosage), by BPS (BPs is actually discontinuing this product :-( oh well)

*MHP: Secretagogue-One

*Bodytech: BCAA - Fruit Punch ( Ounces Powder in any flavor)

*Bodytech: 100% Pure Creatine Monohydrate- UNFLAVORED ((0.15 x bodyweight lb)

*Bodytech: ZMA Tech

*Solaray: Bitter Melon Extract 500 MG

*Solgar: Chelated Copper

*Muscle Tech: muscle builder

* Barlowe's Herbal Elixirs: Nettle High Potency Extract 450mg

*The vitamin shoppe: TMG 1000mg

* Bodytech: Whey protein (2grams per lb of bodyweight)


And of course I will be taking multivitamins for optimal health (I did not mention these because I don't think they play a significant role in physical performance and the attaining of muscle mass)
 

Zariph

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Interested in this, hopefully it will be an honest review. If you dont mind, what split are you running
 
Nac

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So obviously any results will be due to any combination of all the products you are taking, and not any particular one.
 

extremophileX

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Interested in this, hopefully it will be an honest review. If you dont mind, what split are you running
Okay, you asked for the training split, here it is!
IMG_20170402_160425[1].jpg
 
HTGduck

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Aware of everything but the bitter melon extract... What is the purpose of it and what is it for?
 

extremophileX

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So obviously any results will be due to any combination of all the products you are taking, and not any particular one.
yes. but as far as certain supplements go, you know they work or they do not work alone, for example as protein goes, I'm sure the difference between eating 2 grams and 1 gram would not make a difference in muscle gained if the products were not working, as an unassisted body can not use or process over a certain amount of protein. My goal is to at least get some kind of result over 0.5 lb. of lean muscle mass gained a week, if I can surpass that goal, then aside from the possibility of water weight I can say that the products will have enhanced my muscle gaining capacity since research science supposedly states that an unaided body can only gain up 0.5 lb. of muscle a week unaided. As with eating excessive protein, the same goes for working out each muscle 3 times a week,---unaided you would definitely be overtraining your body if pure muscle mass is your goal, at least from what I've heard. So as far as protein, and creatine and ZMA are most likely requirements only. (ZMA according to science assuming one has diet deficient in Zinc and Magnesium, but I know that I have experienced a deepening of sleep, indicating an effect, probably due to diet deficient in Zinc and Magnesium)


Most of the effects, if any that I will have I will look up the reviews on the products and compare them to also help explain if each product is individually "working". For example: people who have taken Secratogue 1 have noticed a deepened feeling of sleep, were as Laxogenin is said to give heightened energy levels, so if if notice either of those effects I can attribute the particular effect to the one it seems to correlate with most closely to.
 

extremophileX

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Aware of everything but the bitter melon extract... What is the purpose of it and what is it for?
Okay, as far as what I've heard, is that bitter melon extract can have an effect on the body's sensitivity to insulin, some sources even say it can induce an insulin spike in the body (not sure of this).


Some bodybuilders use (artificial) insulin to induce the body the absorb nutrients, mostly in the muscles when used for bodybuilding purposes.

I am hoping that Bitter melon similarly, would have an effect on body composition-------(if I notice mild symptoms of hypoglycemia I will Know for sure it will have a similar effect and I will eat more carbs as to not go into a hypoglycemic state).


That concludes everything I know of bitter melon extract.
 
Nac

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Yes, buuuuut

any physique changes that come about, which supp do you attribute that to? The enhanced recovery of Secratogue? Increased anabolism of laxo? Improved workouts due to the mtech product? Or are the improved workouts due to Secratogue...or both? Or cos your boning your partner more often and feeling less stressed?
 
HTGduck

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Okay, as far as what I've heard, is that bitter melon extract can have an effect on the body's sensitivity to insulin, some sources even say it can induce an insulin spike in the body (not sure of this).


Some bodybuilders use (artificial) insulin to induce the body the absorb nutrients, mostly in the muscles when used for bodybuilding purposes.

I am hoping that Bitter melon similarly, would have an effect on body composition-------(if I notice mild symptoms of hypoglycemia I will Know for sure it will have a similar effect and I will eat more carbs as to not go into a hypoglycemic state).


That concludes everything I know of bitter melon extract.
Okay thanks. I appreciate your response. Learn something new every day.
 

extremophileX

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Update 1

Okay, I have decided just before I begin the "experiment" that I will be working out each muscle group 3 times on a 6 day a week schedule.
20170410_030630.jpg
This picture shows exactly how I will be hitting each muscle group. At approximately 11.50 hours from now I will be getting a DEXA body composition scan which I will be sure to post results regardless of how unimpressive it may be. It is the difference before and after 8 weeks I will be comparing. I shall begin training and supplementing the evening/night of today. The first Androcrine application will begin at sleeping time this very night (Monday approximately 23 hours from now [technically Tuesday morning])..that's everything for the next 12-13 hours.
 

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400mg of transdermal laxogeinin that sounds like crazy and a dangerous way to go for your cortisol levels. If they get too low you will have some real bad side effects. dizziness etc
 
DUbz86

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Okay, I have decided just before I begin the "experiment" that I will be working out each muscle group 3 times on a 6 day a week schedule. View attachment 147456 This picture shows exactly how I will be hitting each muscle group. At approximately 11.50 hours from now I will be getting a DEXA body composition scan which I will be sure to post results regardless of how unimpressive it may be. It is the difference before and after 8 weeks I will be comparing. I shall begin training and supplementing the evening/night of today. The first Androcrine application will begin at sleeping time this very night (Monday approximately 23 hours from now [technically Tuesday morning])..that's everything for the next 12-13 hours.
This shows what body part your training not what technique and training method. I would say look into PHAT training or German volume those two definitely have worked the best for me.
 

extremophileX

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I just experienced an automotive accident. Will get DEXA scan tommorrow (hopefully) because I missed my appointment today.


Yeah I will get into training method as soon as I can. I plan to split up the legs and core and workout twice a day on those days.

Lots of sets (6-10+) until failure.

Also ALL illegal performance enhancers have side effects...personally I'm trying to get as close as possible to the positive effects with legal supplements so I expect some side effects may be possible...yes surviving is on the agenda though

6 things I am bringing that may be relative to the comments/post/topic..

1#. I have taken DHEA 3 times recommended dose with no results.

2# Obviously if any dangerous effects happen I can just stop immediately, i plan to check blood pressure and maybe blood sugar levels.

3# i am personally worried about going into a hypoglycemic state from bitter melon.

4# the biggest danger that worries me is the law which is something I don't have to worry about with legal supplementation, not minor side effects.


5# also cortisol is muscle waisting, so although the human body may need it i want to keep it at a MINIMUM

6# A Lot of supplement companies are just scared of getting sued.
 

Asteele08

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I'm in to see how this works. What's your starting body weight?
 

extremophileX

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Okay, here are my DEXA results from yesterday. I could not get them on the internet sooner because my home/personal internet is unusable for the time being.

IMG_20170411_173115.jpg



Now please pay attention to lean body mass as that is what I will be comparing the before and after to.

Also I will have to extend the test to 4 months due to the Universities policy on DEXA scans. So instead of running 8 weeks, I will run most of the supplements for 6 weeks then 4 weeks off, than 6 weeks on so I spend most of my time on.


Now, I will have to wait to do my first workout with the supplements tonight, but I did apply Androcrine last night.

I am not sure the Androcrine is responsible but I had a tingling sensation that something was growing in me and on me all over and I felt a fading/dying like sensation. On the flip side I felt an energetic restless feeling at some periods. When I woke up I had diarrhea and a relative who I live with said I was turning red. Now I am not sure if Androcrine is responsible but if any of these continue I will stop, but for now I will continue. I will let you know more as soon as I can, but for now I have to go to work, I plan to work out tonight before I sleep.

Please note I applied 200mg of Androcrine. Not 400mg, I plan to apply 200mg twice a day.
 

extremophileX

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I Was actually serious when I posted that last post.

Don't know what happened yesterday.... for a second there I was beginning to think I was allergic to Androcrine.

The sensation of dying was exagerated but there was definitely a "lights out feel" , or a really deep sleep as well as a odd Tingling sensation. Anyways the second night around everything went fine.

No "liquid sickness" today, but with all the liquid protein I will start consuming when I actually start working out while taking supplements today, i'm afraid will cause a case of the diarrhea..simply because drinking all that liquid means the body will have to adjust/adapt.


Had "morning wood" last night and the night before so maybe the Androcrine or the ZMA triggered that.....i'm not too worried about sexual effects so long as it doesn't "kill" or reduce my sex drive.

From what reviews say the noticable effects come after 3 days of consistant use and muscle gain happens after 3 weeks.



Will report more if anything signifigant comes up or any of you guys and ( maybe gals) have questions.

Also since Androcrine is said to be harmless, if i can afford it I might run 4 months or 16 weeks instead of 6 weeks 4 weeks 6 weeks on....maybe...we will see...
 

EricMM

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Looks good! Interested in how a high dose Laxogenin works. This will be cool.
 

extremophileX

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Okay, I wanted to give up on this, but I still have most of the supplements including Androcrine, because of my busy lifestyle I got sidetracked from the DEXA scans, the only thing I can do now is start over, I may be able to use regular fat calipers (if you want this let me know), post before and after pictures, and post stats on request, I just started working out again, I am drastically out of shape, although not obese I have small pot belly but am still ectomorphic in shape. Just got through first workout of the week. And applied Androcrine.

Things I'm doing differently include reducing protein intake to 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight since when I went for higher I would wind up vomitting.

Added a 10 minute jog to start every workout.

Increased weight intensity (maximum weight effort) and reduced sets to 3 to 6 sets per workout.

If you want to know more just ask.
 

extremophileX

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Also am aiming for recomposition instead of bulking like before if at all possible
 
skinnybones

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You never bothered to ever mention any stats.. lol
How old are you??
 
u_e_s_i

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Okay, as far as what I've heard, is that bitter melon extract can have an effect on the body's sensitivity to insulin, some sources even say it can induce an insulin spike in the body (not sure of this).


Some bodybuilders use (artificial) insulin to induce the body the absorb nutrients, mostly in the muscles when used for bodybuilding purposes.

I am hoping that Bitter melon similarly, would have an effect on body composition-------(if I notice mild symptoms of hypoglycemia I will Know for sure it will have a similar effect and I will eat more carbs as to not go into a hypoglycemic state).


That concludes everything I know of bitter melon extract.
Bitter melon helps to optimise glucose utilisation and helps keep insulin low, this is why its useful to diabetics. Ngl I've never heard anyone claim that it induces insulin spikes and that would go against a lot of the other science on it.
In terms of its effects, it'll help you recomp / lean out by keep insulin low, aiding to partitioning glucose for glycogen creation and thus promoting the usage of fat as fuel

Very interested in your results
 
u_e_s_i

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400mg of transdermal laxogeinin that sounds like crazy and a dangerous way to go for your cortisol levels. If they get too low you will have some real bad side effects. dizziness etc
I wasn't aware that laxogenin increases cortisol. What other negative effects does laxogenin have? The only one I've come across so far is potential hypoglycemia
 
u_e_s_i

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@OP if you decide to do this experiment I have a few suggestions which you could consider to make things easier

1. Invest in a 'fancy' scale or handheld bodyfat measuring device. I've seen some on sale which cost ~$50. Look for a code from some influencer on Instagram or youtube. If you get this then measure a few times a week, every couple of week, then use the average of that week's measurements as your bodyfat% for that week

2. I used to hit muscle groups 3 times a week and you honestly don't need to hit them that often even whilst on the supps mentioned above. The benefits of working out muscle that often is actually questionable. It may or may not be beneficial. In the weeks in which you know you'll have more time, aim to hit each muscle group 2-3 times and don't go all the way to failure. In the weeks which you know will be busier, have a day for each muscle group and do more compound exercises as these work more muscles. Also go to failure and upon hitting failures do some eccentric negatives (look em up if you need to). If you're working out on three days in a particular week, aim to have a rest day between workouts. You really won't miss out on much, if anything, only hitting a muscle group 1-2 times a week. It also makes your weeks that much easier. 4 days a weeks is good too, maybe hit a selection of muscles twice in a week and rotate which muscles get hit twice

3. About the bitter melon. I'll be honest with you, the benefits of high insulin for those not in steroids or PHs are greatly overestimated. Your body's smart enough to utilise the protein you consume for growth if theres appropriate stimuli even without having high insulin. In your DEXA scan it said you're ~22%bf and you said you've put on a bit of weight. Bitter melon will aid your recomp, not hinder it

4. Switching to 1.5x bodyweight in lbs of protein per day was a good move

Lmk if you decide to do this experiemt. I'm curious as to what 200-400mg of laxogenin would be like. Do be careful
 
aaronuconn

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In for OP’s 7-month update. We’re waiting
 

OldGreyFitGuy

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Thats really the kitchen sink approach. At your age why not just eat more and sleep more? Take an extra day off a week. You grow while resting. You'd save a lot of money.
 

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