CLA anyone taking it?

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  1. CLA anyone taking it?


    Anyone think CLA is worth taking? I use to take it a while back and was thinking about buying some more.


  2. Studies show it works. Just another case of if the effect is worth the price. It doesn't do any harm, so if you can afford it you might as well
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by csline View Post
    Studies show it works. Just another case of if the effect is worth the price. It doesn't do any harm, so if you can afford it you might as well
    I believe last time I saw that was only in the obese. But to your point, is it worth the price. In my opinion, no.
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  4. SNS CLA extreme would do you right OP. Cost effective and properly dosed.
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  5. ya I take it just to take it .. I also take garcinia cambogia to aid in the fat burning process. For those who take it how many grams/day ??
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  6. I found a BOGO free deal for EVL Nutrition CLA 1000...180 caps at 1,000mg each, so a 60 day supply.... it was only $29 I think? So a 4 month supply for $30 was well worth it to me. If it only helps lower body fat by .5% the so be it, the value was worth it

  7. Quote Originally Posted by jgntyce View Post
    SNS CLA extreme would do you right OP. Cost effective and properly dosed.
    What's the price and dose? If memory serves me correctly, 3.4g was the ideal dose, spaced out with meals... I'd take 4gs a day breakfast, lunch, dinner and night shake

  8. I can get 360 caps (1g) for 20$

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Steezy View Post
    ya I take it just to take it .. I also take garcinia cambogia to aid in the fat burning process. For those who take it how many grams/day ??
    The most credible studies that actually show results used dosing of 3g p/day, taken at 1g doses before each meal. One study I read used cohorts of 3, 4, 5 and 6g per day with no significant differences between the groups. So it appears CLA has a point of saturation

  10. Yes and I like it. I've been taking it for about 3 months. You can get 90 caps 1000mg Tonalin for 12.99 on Amazon, which is pretty cheap.

    It takes time to kick in, but I noticed after about 2 months I tended to be less likely to put on bodyfat and seemed to be more muscular/lean. Subtle but for about 13 dollars a month definitely worth it IMO. I use 4g/day.

    Recent labs showed my HDL at 72 (very good), total cholesterol slightly elevated (eating a high sat fat diet). Some possibility CLA may lower HDL but mine is still fine.
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    The Solution's Avatar

    Most research is done on obese individuals. for the majority of us on here that does not correlate to us. Most of these people have BMI's over 25-30
    Most of the doses are also at least 6g. And even in obese patients not much was seen or changed from a fatloss standpoint.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16522907

    "A 3.4-g daily CLA supplementation for 1 y does not prevent weight or fat mass regain in a healthy obese population."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21697535

    CLA does not decreases body weight as compared with safflower oil in overweight and obese male subjects. (4.5g Dose of CLA)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17490954
    CONCLUSION:
    Given at a dose of 3.2 g/d, CLA produces a modest loss in body fat in humans.
    whereas results in humans have been inconsistent.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21990002

    The efficacy of long-term conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) supplementation on body composition in overweight and obese individuals: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials.

    CONCLUSION:
    The evidence from RCTs does not convincingly show that CLA intake generates any clinically relevant effects on body composition on the long term.


    you are much better spending your money on Yohimbine HCL or Forskolin 95 if you want some bulks. CLA is not really worth the merit or time.
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  12. Solution brings up a good point. I'd say for the money you spend, you'll get more bang for your buck out of Forskolin 95% and Yohimbine.
    iForce Nutrition Representative

  13. Quote Originally Posted by csline View Post
    Studies show it works.
    Any that don't have researchers on board who profit from CLA?

    Here's a December 2016 one that is full of fail as well...

    Conjugated linoleic acid supplementation does not maximize motor performance and abdominal and trunk fat loss induced by aerobic training in overweight women

  14. Yep I'm all about Primaforce Yohimbine HCL... it's a cutting staple of mine

  15. I took 2 grams a day for 2 months and recently stopped, I don't think it does anything

  16. It causes fatty liver. Not worth the risk over a long period.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by protempsfish View Post
    It causes fatty liver. Not worth the risk over a long period.
    What? CLA?

  18. I started taking a few weeks ago but looks like I'll be stopping it thanks to this thread. A few less pills to take each day.

  19. There are much better things to use your money for. If you want help cutting, use something that's actually proven like: caffeine, ephedrine, yohimbe/alpha-y, forskolin, literally anything from EvoMuse ...

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Rhadam View Post
    There are much better things to use your money for. If you want help cutting, use something that's actually proven like: caffeine, ephedrine, yohimbe/alpha-y, forskolin, literally anything from EvoMuse ...
    I've been looking into Ammo and DCP.. looks promising

  21. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Most research is done on obese individuals. for the majority of us on here that does not correlate to us. Most of these people have BMI's over 25-30
    Most of the doses are also at least 6g. And even in obese patients not much was seen or changed from a fatloss standpoint.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16522907

    "A 3.4-g daily CLA supplementation for 1 y does not prevent weight or fat mass regain in a healthy obese population."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21697535

    CLA does not decreases body weight as compared with safflower oil in overweight and obese male subjects. (4.5g Dose of CLA)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17490954
    CONCLUSION:
    Given at a dose of 3.2 g/d, CLA produces a modest loss in body fat in humans.
    whereas results in humans have been inconsistent.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21990002

    The efficacy of long-term conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) supplementation on body composition in overweight and obese individuals: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials.

    CONCLUSION:
    The evidence from RCTs does not convincingly show that CLA intake generates any clinically relevant effects on body composition on the long term.


    you are much better spending your money on Yohimbine HCL or Forskolin 95 if you want some bulks. CLA is not really worth the merit or time.
    Wise advise here!

  22. CLA is good but not something you will see fast results with. It will be beneficial as you take it over time. I recommend it as a healthy fat that will slowly help u stay lean. Also has good overall health benefits

  23. I think you will find CLA Extreme to be priced very well

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
    mike at competitiveedgelabs dot com


  24. @The Solution... Is it true that forskolin is really only good for people with sub %10 BF? Also, what's the optimal dose (mg) and dosing protocol (times per day) for forskolin? Can it be ran with Yohimbine?

  25. CLA works really well for me.
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  26. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    The Solution's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by mmorso View Post
    @The Solution... Is it true that forskolin is really only good for people with sub %10 BF? Also, what's the optimal dose (mg) and dosing protocol (times per day) for forskolin? Can it be ran with Yohimbine?
    Nope. its great to help elevate cAMP levels and get fatloss rolling.
    50-100mg split into two doses works great, and yes you can stack with Yohimbine HCL
    Work up to .02mg/kg for Yohimbine upon waking in a fasted state
    Dose 1 serving Forskolin in the AM and 1 in the PM (to hit 50-100mg) 50mg is a very heavily studied dose. Most on here can take upward to 100mg
    Forskolin-95 What you always wanted to know

    Please read here

    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Forskolin-95
    Attachment 109185
    Forskolin-95 is a pure 95% forskolin agent intended to deliver the plethora of potent effects associated with this compound. In particular, Forskolin-95 delivers:

    - Powerful lipolytic and thermogenic effects
    - Regulation of insulin signaling
    - Potent cyclic AMP activation devoid of hormonal down-regulation
    - Enhanced synthesis of steroid hormones such as testosterone
    - Significant anabolic and anti-catabolic effects

    So, what exactly is the key active in Forskolin-95, and how does it induce its effects?

    A diterpene, forskolin is the key active principle of the Ayurvedic herb, Coleus forskohlii, and has been demonstrated to have a variety of powerful effects. [1] Forskolin’s focal mechanism of action is the stimulation of adenylate cyclase, the enzyme responsible for the downstream activation of the second messenger, cyclic AMP (3,5 cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP)) in cells. [2,6,8] A central cell-regulating compound, cyclic AMP activates a range of other enzymes and membrane proteins involved in diverse cellular actions, such as stimulating anabolic and anti-catabolic effects, promoting the oxidation of fatty acids, inducing an increase in the body’s basal metabolic rates, boosting the levels of serum free testosterone, and promoting an increase in lean mass. [9,10]

    Cyclic-AMP Activation

    Although hormones, neurotransmitters and adrenergic receptor agonists are capable of activating cyclic AMP, the pathways they employ for this cyclic AMP stimulation might lead to a negative feedback effect, in which receptor or hormonal down-regulation occurs during prolonged or chronic expression of these hormones or stimulation of these agonists. Herein lies the advantage of forskolin: It can not only work in concert with these hormones and agonists, but can also activate adenylate cyclase (and consequently stimulate cAMP) completely independently of these hormones and receptors, averting the risk of hormonal or receptor down-regulation.

    Protein Kinase A and Hormone Sensitive Lipase Activation

    As is well known, the rate-limiting step in lipolysis is mediated by a cyclic-AMP mechanism. In particular, in this initial step, adenylate cyclase is hormonally activated, leading to an elevated synthesis of cyclic AMP and cyclic-AMP-dependent protein kinase (PKA), as well as the downstream phosphorylation and activation of enzyme hormone sensitive lipase (HSL). [3] Forskolin has been demonstrated to activate adenylate cyclase action (forskolin directly activates the catalytic subunit of adenylate cyclase), devoid of any upstream hormonal intervention, and increase cyclic AMP accumulation, leading to the release of fatty acids from adipose stores, and ultimately to thermogenesis and lipolysis in fat cells. [4,5,7,8]

    Non-Stimulant Thermogenesis and Thyroid-Gland Stimulation

    So, by activating cyclic AMP in adipose cells, completely independently of hormonal intervention, Forskolin-95 ultimately activates HSL, inducing potent lipolytic action by liberating free fatty acids in adipocytes to be used as substrates for energy regulation. Forskolin-95 induces this effect without the incorporation of any stimulant. Beyond this, Forskolin-96 enhances human and animal thyroid activity (comparable in strength to thyrotropin or thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH)) by potently activating adenylate cyclase in the thyroid gland. [11,12] In particular, Forskolin-95 achieves this effect not only by stimulating the production of the thyroid hormones, T4 and T3, but also by stimulating the conversion of T4 into the metabolically more active T3. This thyroid stimulation supports increased basal metabolic rate and promotes thermogenesis.

    Insulin Signaling

    In another line of exploration relevant to body composition and fat loss, forskolin has been reported, in a rodent trial, to be involved in the beneficial modulation of insulin signaling, influencing macronutrient metabolism for preferential body compositional effects. [13]

    Anabolic Effects

    Furthermore, studies have demonstrated that forskolin not only induced a statistically significant reduction of adipose mass, but also stimulated increased bone mass and serum free testosterone levels, supporting forskolin’s anti-catabolic and anabolic effects. [9,10]

    Synthesis of Steroid Hormones

    Protein kinases (activated by cyclic AMP) play a crucial role in steroidogenesis or the synthesis of steroid hormones. [14] Trophic hormones, such as luteinizing hormone (LH) or adrenal corticotrophic hormone activate cyclic AMP, leading to the activation of protein kinase A (PKA) and the downstream phosphorylation of transcription factors that regulate the steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein transcription. StAR, a Leydig-cell cholesterol-transfer protein, is a critical protein in the biosynthesis of steroid hormones. In particular, StAR facilitates the transfer of cholesterol, the key substrate for all steroid hormones, to the inner mitochondrial membrane where cholesterol is converted to pregnenolone by the P450 side chain cleavage enzyme (P450scc), initiating the crucial formation of steroids. [15,16,17,18,19] This cascade is important, because the activation of the steroidogenic enzymes involved in the synthesis of testosterone from cholesterol cannot occur without the prior activation of the StAR protein by cyclic AMP. By activating cyclic AMP independently of trophic hormones, forskolin activates PKA and stimulates increased expression of the StAR protein, ultimately leading to steroidogenesis. [14] The steroids, including testosterone, produced in this process typically bind to intra-cellular androgen receptors, specifically activating so-called transcription genes. These steroidal molecules instruct the genes to induce specific effects, for instance, delivering anabolic effects such as increasing nitrogen retention and protein synthesis, reducing cortisol, and increasing IGF.

    Further Anabolic Effects

    Relatedly, as hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis (HPTA) shutdown is partly due to low levels of cyclic AMP, forskolin-induced elevation of cyclic AMP expression can stimulate the pituitary gland to increase the secretion of luteinizing hormone (LH), which in turn signals the Leydig cells of the gonads to boost the production of steroid hormones such as testosterone by stimulating the activity of the StAR protein, a Leydig cell cholesterol-transfer protein that plays a foundational role in the synthesis of testosterone. So, by potently elevating cyclic AMP levels, Forskolin-95 exerts a powerful anabolic effect via cyclic AMP-induced steroid biosynthesis.

    Calpains, Calpastatin Gene Transcription and Anti-Catabolic Effects

    Forskolin-95 also exerts an anti-catabolic effect, an effect that is also cyclic-AMP-dependent. Catabolism, in the sense of skeletal muscle mass, is the breakdown of muscle tissue, and reflects the hydrolytic degradation of muscle proteins, partially into peptides or completely into amino acids. This process, also called proteolysis, unlike other posttranslational modifications or changes (such as protein methylation, protein phosphorylation, and so on), is completely irreversible. Under normal circumstances, muscle mass is regulated by a balance between protein synthesis and protein degradation, and muscle breakdown can result when this equilibrium is impaired. [23]

    The breakdown of muscle tissue is predominantly governed by calcium-dependent enzymes, known as calpains. Calpains are calcium-activated proteases that are involved in myofribrillar disassembly and channel the resulting myofibrillar structures into the ubiquitin-proteosome pathway (UPP), the primary proteolytic system in skeletal muscle, for degradation. [21] Apart from injury and calcium leak, calpains can be activated by physiological mechanisms in intact cells. [22] Calpain activity can be regulated by the endogenous inhibitor, calpastatin. Calcium, beyond being an important activator of calpains, also regulates the binding of calpastatins to caplains, leading to inhibition of calpain activity. [22] As it turns out, the activation of calpastatin is cyclic-AMP-dependent. As such, by activating cyclic AMP, Forskolin-95 exerts considerable anti-catabolic action by stimulating calpastatin gene transcription, thus inhibiting caplain activity, and ultimately promoting the preservation of lean muscle mass. [24]

    Summary

    So, Forskolin-95, predominantly via cyclic AMP activation, recruits a variety of pathways to elicit considerable thermogenic and lipolytic activity (and stimulate noticeable fat loss), exert powerful anabolic and anti-catabolic effects, induce thyroid-gland stimulation, boost steroid-hormone biosynthesis, and modulate beneficial insulin signaling.

    A truly powerful and versatile compound, Forskolin-95 is a safe, reliable and effective agent that delivers a spectrum of results consistent with the different goals of bodybuilders, as well as fitness and sports enthusiasts.

    References
    1) Agarwal KC, Parks RE (1983).Forskolin: a potential antimetastic agent. Int J Cancer 32, 801-804.
    2) Leamon KB, Padgett W & Daly, JW (1981). Forskolin: Unique diterpene activator of adenylate cyclase in membrane and intact cells. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci 78, 3363-3367.
    3) Belfrage P, Fredrikson G, Olsson H & Strilfors P (1982). Hormonal regulation of adipose tissue lipolysis by reversible phosphorylation of hormone-sensitive lipase. Prog. Clin. Biol. Res 102, 213-223.
    4) Mooney RA, Swicegood CL & Marx RB (1986). Coupling of adenylate cyclase to lipolysis in permeabil- ized adipocytes: direct evidence that an antilipolytic effect of insulin is independent of adenylate cyclase. Endocrinology 119, 2240-2248.
    5) Daly, JW (1984). Forskolin, adenylate cyclase and cell physiology: an overview. Adv. Cyclic Nucleotide Protein Phospholylution Res 17, 81-89.
    6) De Souza NJ, Dohadwalla AN & Reden J (1983). Forskolin, A Labdane Diterpenoid with Antihypertensive, Positive Inotropic, Platelet Aggregation Inhibitory, and Adenylate Cyclase Activating Properties. Medicinal Research Reviews 3, 201-219.
    7) Girardier L (1983). “Brown Fat: An Energy Dissipating Tissue”; In: Mammalian Thermogenesis; Girardier L, Sock M.J. Eds, Chapman and Hall Ltd, 50-98.
    8) Burns TW, Langley PE, Terry BE, Bylund DB, Forte LR Jr (1987). Comparative effects of forskolin and isoproterenol on the cyclic AMP content of human adipocytes. Life Sci 40,145-154.
    9) Godard MP, Johnson BA, Richmond SR (2005). Body Composition and Hormonal Adaptations Associated with Forskolin Consumption in Overweight and Obese Men. Obesity Research 13, 1335-1343.
    10) Srivasta SK, Khatoon CS, Mehrotra SR (2002). Pharmacognostic evaluation of coleus forskohlii. Pharmaceutical Biology 40, 129-134.
    11) Haye, B. et al. (1985) Chronic and acute effects of forskolin on isolated thyroid cell metabolism. Molecular and Cellular Endocrinology 43, 41-50.
    12) Lauerberg P (1984). Forskolin stimulation of thyroid secretion of T4 and T3. FEBS Lett. 21, 273-276.
    13) Yajima H. et al (1999). cAMP enhances insulin secretion by an action on the ATP-sensitive K+ channel-independent pathway of glucose signaling in rat pancreatic islets. Diabetes 48, 1006-12
    14) Jones PM, Sayed SB, Persaud SJ, Burns CJ, Gyles S & Whitehouse BJ (2000). Cyclic AMP-induced expression of steroidogenic acute regulatory protein is dependent upon phosphoprotein phosphatase activities. Journal of Molecular Endocrinology 24, 233–239.
    15) Clark BJ, Wells J, King SR, Stocco DM (1994). The purification, cloning, and expression of a novel luteinizing hormone-induced mitochondrial protein in MA-10 mouse Leydig tumor cells. Characterization of the steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR). J. Biol. Chem. 269, 28314–28322.
    16) Lin D, Sugawara T, Strauss JF III, Clark BJ, Stocco DM, Saenger P, Rogol A, Miller WL (1995). Role of steroidogenic acute regulatory protein in adrenal and gonadal steroidogenesis. Science 267, 1828–1831.
    17) Stocco DM (1997). The steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein two years later. Endocrine 6, 99–109.
    18) Wang X, Liu Z, Eimerl S, Timberg R, Weiss AM, Orly J, Stocco DM (1998). Effect of truncated forms of the steroidogenic acute regulatory protein on intramitochondrial cholesterol transfer. Endocrinology 139, 3903–3912.
    19) Reinhart AJ, Williams SC, Stocco DM (1999). Transcriptional regulation of the StAR gene. Mol. Cell. Endocrinol 151, 161–169.
    20) Averna M, De Tullio R, Capini P, Salamino F, Pontremoli S, Melloni E (2003). Changes in calpastatin localization and expression during calpain activation: a new mechanism for the regulation of intracellular Ca2+-dependent proteolysis. Cellular and Molecular Life Sciences 60, 2669-2678.
    21) Hasselgreen PO, Wray C, Mammen J (2002). Molecular regulation of cachexia: it may be more than the proteasome. Biochem Biophys Res Common 290, 1-10.
    22) Goll DE, Thompson VE, Li H, Wei W, Cong J (2003). The calpain system. Physiol Rev 83, 731–801.
    23) Lang CH, Frost RA, Vary CV (2007). Regulation of muscle protein synthesis during sepsis and inflammation. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 293, E453–E459.
    24) Cong M, Goll DE, Antin PB (1998). cAMP responsiveness of the bovine calpastatin gene promoter. Biochem Biophys Acta. 1443, 186-92.
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by protempsfish View Post
    It causes fatty liver. Not worth the risk over a long period.

    Can anyone comment on this guy's response?

    Never rely on a secondary source; ever moreso when it's written on a meta-study.

    the whole ihealth thing is based off two conflicting papers - one in mice and another in rats. Neither included work in a human model or trial. Both species of rodent responded differently - the rats saw improved insulin sensitivity and lower liver fat while the mice responded oppositely.

    There is evidence from Belury 2003 that CLA improves insulin sensitivity in humans, which in turn relates to body mass. This would imply that the rat model is more inline with human data.

    The point? Not all species necessarily react identically to a given substance, and there is good support for the correlation of moderate CLA to insulin sensitivity and body mass.
    From this CLA thread: CLA for FAT LOSS, BUT CAUSES FATTY LIVER?


    I recently got cholesterol labs done. I do have a family history of higher cholesterol, AND I had been eating a high saturated fat diet on purpose in an attempt to increase testosterone levels. (BTW, there was no increase in my test levels, and I felt a lot worse/more sluggish w/ the high sat fat diet vs. high monounsat diet). My LDL was higher than optimal at 156, HDL was good at 72, Trig. at 68, and Total Chol. 242. Will be getting a retest after switching back to a lower sat fat diet. Taking CLA 4g/day for 3 months prior to test (no previous lipid bloodwork to compare it to.)

  28. @TheSolution I workout in the am and have been taking PA (Tr1umph) pwo... if I add Yohimbine would it be wasteful? I mean will the fat and kcals in the PA prevent the Yohimbine from releasing fat stores since I won't be taking it fasted?

  29. I'm going to amend my post above. Although I do think CLA (which I took for about 4 months) helped me with recomp, after reading this thread I started looking into the sides a bit more and noticed that increased fatigue was reported ... I actually have been having a lot of fatigue over the past 4 months, roughly coinciding with when I started the CLA, and was actually thinking it must be due to me getting older or something. I was feeling like just sitting/laying around during weekends due to being tired.

    I decided to stop CLA almost a week ago and started feeling better within a few days and much better now. Also, I did have some joint stiffness/pain on CLA particularly at >4g/day.

    So if you're having trouble with a recomp it might be worth adding temporarily, but watch for fatigue, which can creep up on you. I likely won't be taking it again as it's just not worth feeling tired all the time.

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/37...-side-effects/

    "You may feel unusually fatigued as a side effect following treatment with CLA. Increased fatigue may negatively affect your ability to remain active and attentive during your normal daily activities. You may also find that you need to sleep for longer periods of time than usual to feel refreshed."
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