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The case for DMAA - thoughts?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by resrch3d View Post
    Are you saying taking kratom before during and or after some type of usage with DMAA would down regulate the efficacy of DMAA and or other amines?
    Not at all. DMAA doesn't directly interact with the Mu opioid receptors, but Kratom partially does. I'm saying that once your body gets used to having an opiate for energy, it raises the neurotransmitters in your brain to levels FAR higher than any normal dose of DMAA could ever do and when you try to stop Kratom, unless you advance yourself to something stronger (which isn't a good thing) you'll get a crash that nothing can really fix except time. Kratom causes a real supraphysiological change in the neurotransmitters. My challenge is in trying to take it to enjoy the cognitive and physical benefits without causing a major change in the neurotransmitter count in my brain.

    Once you go down that route (or with something similar like Cocaine)...nothing else at least nothing OTC will suffice. You just have to suffer to consequences of withdrawals and will likely forever be desensitized to milder things. By desensitization, I simply mean that once you experience opiate-like highs, it's tough for things like stimulants to really make an impact in terms of energy and mood. It'd be like experiencing heaven and then being brought back down to earth - no matter how much effort one puts into replicating the experience, it just won't be the same because it is entirely a different thing altogether.

    And while I used heaven and earth as an example, let's not misunderstand my point and think that I am comparing Kratom to what I think heaven would be like. I'm not.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Viator77 View Post
    Apples & oranges... the Kratom ban got defeated because literally thousands of reputable research scientists and pharmacologist from around the county lobbied politicians, the FDA, and the DEA on behalf of Kratom. Besides Kratom products are all plant derived nobody sells synthetic Kratom alkaloids, well they do but it's extremely cost-prohibitive for people to use them recreationally. As opposed to dmaa which in its supplement form is almost entirely synthetically produced in a lab. besides even if it's banned in supplements we all know it's still widely available as a research chem. For responsible adults it's probably safer to get that way because you know exactly how much your dosing (for non human research of course) and how often.

    personally I'm just going to stick to buying bronkaid & caffeine at my local pharmacy as the ECA stack blows dmaa out of the water. I don't know how the rest of you feel but I can't seem to find the sweet spot for dmaa. It either feels like I didn't take enough for took way too much

    although I completely agree with the second part of your statement. the problem is not enough people know about or care about semi obscure stimulants like dmaa as opposed to kratom which has dozens of legitimate medical uses and some pretty powerful proponents behind it
    Responding to the bold statement, I agree. I just took this combo this morning. Was decent but man, I've really messed my stimulant experience up with Kratom. Everything just pales in comparison, with the exception of taking:

    1g - DL Phenylalanine
    1g- L-Tyrosine
    1/2 -1 TBSP of pure Black Seed Cumin Oil
    750mg - Anaracitam
    300mg - Phenylpiracitam

    That's a pretty good stack for mood and energy, at least for a while.

    Nonetheless, I took the Bronkaid/caffeine combo to burn fat - not necessarily to feel good.
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  3. @fueledpassion I 100% understand what you are saying, although personally I do not get much of a boost from mu opioid agonists, maybe a little dulling of pain but certainly not high levels of energy. However amphetamines, specifically dextro isomer stuff gives me limitless supplies of energy and as long as I force myself to eat and maintain proper nutrition I am unstoppable when it comes to training. Also I completely relate, once you have had such an effective ergogenic aid it is difficult to even place otc stuff in the same ball park. Luckily the withdrawal from typical stimulants (levo and dextro amphetamine salts) actually isn't horrible in my experience you just eat a lot and want to sleep all the time, which isn't necessarily detrimental to a body builder. I have been through alcohol withdrawal several times and that s*** is orders of magnitude more terrible than amphetamine withdrawal, and from people I've talked to so is being dope sick (ie opiate withdrawal). Also I'm not trying to trivialize or down play the ramifications of amphetamine use, no one should touch the stuff unless you have a prescription, but it does have several advantages over opiates/opioids as an ergogenic.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by uprightrows View Post
    @fueledpassion I 100% understand what you are saying, although personally I do not get much of a boost from mu opioid agonists, maybe a little dulling of pain but certainly not high levels of energy. However amphetamines, specifically dextro isomer stuff gives me limitless supplies of energy and as long as I force myself to eat and maintain proper nutrition I am unstoppable when it comes to training. Also I completely relate, once you have had such an effective ergogenic aid it is difficult to even place otc stuff in the same ball park. Luckily the withdrawal from typical stimulants (levo and dextro amphetamine salts) actually isn't horrible in my experience you just eat a lot and want to sleep all the time, which isn't necessarily detrimental to a body builder. I have been through alcohol withdrawal several times and that s*** is orders of magnitude more terrible than amphetamine withdrawal, and from people I've talked to so is being dope sick (ie opiate withdrawal). Also I'm not trying to trivialize or down play the ramifications of amphetamine use, no one should touch the stuff unless you have a prescription, but it does have several advantages over opiates/opioids as an ergogenic.
    You know, I can only think of ONE person who took Adderall for a long time and actually had trouble getting off it, yet I know tons of people that take it or used to take it and none of them have stories of withdrawals to tell about. Nonetheless, my experience with it was similar to yours. There isn't much out there that I don't respond ideally to, lol. Notice the double negative - isn't much I don't respond ideally to. I'm even hooked on the training stimulus. If I miss more than 48hrs in the gym, I get restless leg syndrome - not unlike an opiate withdrawal TBH.

    Kratom users often used to be alcoholics, if that says anything about the similarities between the two. I don't support addictions, but man, we've all got em and if I can have one from a natural plant that doesn't cause liver failure, diabetes, high blood pressure and doesn't pose an imminent risk of death (like Heroine for instance), then I'm all for it especially if it means you aren't using one of those other drugs or vices. I hate that I'm a sensory seeker and that I will always be one for life but my point about all this is that while I am a sucker for stuff like stims and Kratom, it's always a calculated risk for me - there are more positives than negatives as long as it stays legal, cheap & pure. This post directly adds color to my previous posts @ post #100 & #113.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by carguy123 View Post
    Gaspari is suppose to be coming out with SP250 w/o DMAA and I believe there is already a version of Mesomorph without DMAA (there was alteast a year or so ago) so they already have a few products in the works/out.
    I knew they made some dmaa free pre workouts, i just wouldn't consider the other stims in its place to put them on par with dmaa.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I'm a sensory seeker and that I will always be one for life but my point about all this is that while I am a sucker for stuff like stims and Kratom, it's always a calculated risk for me - there are more positives than negatives as long as it stays legal, cheap & pure. This post directly adds color to my previous posts @ post #100 & #113.
    Yup, same, and agree. Any recognition I have of any elevated state of awareness or change in any sensory perceptions to any degree...It's what a look for. Stims, kratom, and other plant and herbal based supplementary items that create a recognized change in states of awareness I find safe (for me non addictive) and in most cases beneficial to some degree for myslef.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Not at all. DMAA doesn't directly interact with the Mu opioid receptors, but Kratom partially does. I'm saying that once your body gets used to having an opiate for energy, it raises the neurotransmitters in your brain to levels FAR higher than any normal dose of DMAA could ever do.
    Would make sense, I cycle around with kratom and more recently f-phenibut. I try to never take any of what I like too consecutively. Harder to do when you have your fav stims that help with work and what ever else you like them for, but good point.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by resrch3d View Post
    Would make sense, I cycle around with kratom and more recently f-phenibut. I try to never take any of what I like too consecutively. Harder to do when you have your fav stims that help with work and what ever else you like them for, but good point.
    And herein lies my problem - Kratom is awesome at providing lower blood pressure and awesome cognitive function (at least for me) but directly conflicts with the idea of build muscle mass. This is over apparent to me - I notice a significant increase in fullness when I stop Kratom use. Not sure if it's actually muscle growth/glycogen retention or if it's just overall a reduction in anti-inflammatory response. Personally, the last time I quite it, I put on 3lbs of mass within 5 days of stopping it. So there's that. Kratom isn't likely productive in the long run for bodybuilding. I hate that.

    We need something that legally produces effects similar to Kratom in terms of mood and energy without the opiate-like effects of pain killing, anti-inflammatory actions, addictive properties, etc. The supplement industry still has a lot to improve on, IMO. DMAA doesn't quite capture the need.

  9. Really dmaa doesn't have to not be in products until this case is done, right? So will stores stop selling the products even though there has not been a final ruling? That seems to be the way some places are acting yet my understanding of the law is, no one needs to really stop selling products containing dmaa.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by resrch3d View Post
    Really dmaa doesn't have to not be in products until this case is done, right? So will stores stop selling the products even though there has not been a final ruling? That seems to be the way some places are acting yet my understanding of the law is, no one needs to really stop selling products containing dmaa.
    hi-tech has and will continued its production of DMAA.
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  11. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    hi-tech has and will continued its production of DMAA.
    This is just one more example that will lead to the greater population trusting our government even less than we already do.

  12. I remember using it in several products when it was legal. All the controversy started when some soldiers used it before a long march and died from what appeared to be heat stroke. it was blamed on DMAA so the military immediately banned it on base but you could still get it at supp shops. the stuff worked great till they removed the DMAA and I remember those products post DMAA didnt have the same kick. Anyway in studies its shown to raise blood pressure a significant amout

    https://examine.com/supplements/1-3-...blood-pressure

  13. Quote Originally Posted by heckler7 View Post
    I remember using it in several products when it was legal. All the controversy started when some soldiers used it before a long march and died from what appeared to be heat stroke. it was blamed on DMAA so the military immediately banned it on base but you could still get it at supp shops. the stuff worked great till they removed the DMAA and I remember those products post DMAA didnt have the same kick. Anyway in studies its shown to raise blood pressure a significant amout

    https://examine.com/supplements/1-3-...blood-pressure
    Looks like 20% which could pose a problem for those already with existing high blood pressure.
    iForce Nutrition Representative

  14. Quote Originally Posted by compan View Post
    Looks like 20% which could pose a problem for those already with existing high blood pressure.
    Yep, and many users do not even know what their BP is before taking which is problematic.
    Gaspari Nutrition Board Representative
    www.gasparinutrition.com
    Use code DANIEL30 for 30% off entire order

  15. we goochi mang lol

  16. Quote Originally Posted by compan View Post
    Looks like 20% which could pose a problem for those already with existing high blood pressure.
    20% is manageable. 2g of Garlic extract and an ACE-II inhibitor and you'll negate that increase and some.
  17. The case for DMAA - thoughts?


    Quote Originally Posted by heckler7 View Post
    I remember using it in several products when it was legal. All the controversy started when some soldiers used it before a long march and died from what appeared to be heat stroke. it was blamed on DMAA so the military immediately banned it on base but you could still get it at supp shops. the stuff worked great till they removed the DMAA and I remember those products post DMAA didnt have the same kick. Anyway in studies its shown to raise blood pressure a significant amout
    I remember I was in training on a base when this situation went down. I was still able to get dmaa for that period in time but products like that were starting to get pulled after that.

    Later it was concluded that dmaa was not the cause...I'd have to search for the literature but it's def out there.

    Not to say some won't have a spike in bp, but I'd say the average Joe with a clean bill of health shouldn't see anything abnormal.

  18. That's a BIG BS.If you are healthy with no BP issues Dmaa in moderate dosage is completely fine, obviously you don't have to abuse it as everything. When an ingredient works guys it will be banned. That's it!

  19. I never had a problem after taking DMAA...never.

    If anything i felt like doing math and building rockets. Stuff is amazing...limitless.

  20. I just ordered an omron upper arm 5 series blood pressure monitor and have dust extreme (75mg dmaa per scoop) and mesomorph (65mg dmaa per scoop) ill take blood pressure before and after use of each pre workout and report back. Others should do the same!

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Johnold View Post
    I never had a problem after taking DMAA...never.

    If anything i felt like doing math and building rockets. Stuff is amazing...limitless.
    This is me also
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative
    Use Code COLEMAN30 to save 30% on ALL HiTech Pharma Co.:
    APS Nutrition, ALR Industries, Formutech, LG Sciences, IForce Nutrition

  22. It seems like the FDA always tries to ruin a good thing. A lot of these product don't even have many negative side effects, or they may compete with pharmacies. Ridiculous.
    99.4% pure Phenibut powder by Zach Attack Supplements! Common Benefits: restful sleep, anxiety relief and relaxation. Other supplements include Adrafinil, Noopept. GO HERE: https://www.zachattacksupplements.com/

  23. Theyll let you kill yourself with cigarettes and aspartame and wont release the REAL cure for cancer but will give you hell about DMAA. Smart.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Johnold View Post
    Theyll let you kill yourself with cigarettes and aspartame and wont release the REAL cure for cancer but will give you hell about DMAA. Smart.
    Oh 100% believe we have a cure for cancer. All that research going into cures. It's all about money. That's it. Cigarettes=money. Did you know there's technology to repair skin burns in a few hours without any scarring? Government just won't allow the company to patent it because it'd cost pharmaceutical companies, and others, money.
    99.4% pure Phenibut powder by Zach Attack Supplements! Common Benefits: restful sleep, anxiety relief and relaxation. Other supplements include Adrafinil, Noopept. GO HERE: https://www.zachattacksupplements.com/
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