Follidrone 2.0 - When exactly to take?

mrhankey87

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Hey guys! Starting an Alphamax XT + Follidrone 2.0 run next week - I know I'm supposed to go 2 prebed + 2 upon waking regarding Alphamax XT, but what about Follidrone 2.0?

The suggested use is 3 pills during the day, do you guys prefer 1 with each meal, 2 with meals 1 prewo, other options?

Since F2.0 is anti-inflammatory, I guess it doesn't make much sense to put it prewo, whatcha think?

Also, is it better to take it just before meals, quite a bit before, or during/after? It does change, given my experience with other supps.

Any benefits in taking it postwo or during the evening/night? If not, I was thinking I could go 2 before lunch, and 1 before snack.

Is it common practice to up the dosage after a while? I'm doing 8 weeks total.

Thanks for your input guys!
 

JPARKS42

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I've just been taking 1 in the morning and 2 preworkout with either my Tr1umph or Pwo of the day. I thought that was standard protocol for FD2 timing/dosing...
 
MidwestBeast

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2 pre-workout and 1 spaced out from it seems to be the general consensus.
 
mrhankey87

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I just don't understand why it should be taken prewo if it's anti-inflammatory...it kinda goes against what X-Gels does for example?

That being said, good to know I can just take it with my Tr1umph and go. Sometimes I take Tr1umph + High Volume, I hope it won't be overkill to add F2.0 in there as well prewo
 

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Take exactly as suggested. On non -workout days, take 3 separate caps. If 2 pre-workout drops your glucose too much, eat more in your pre-workout meal and make sure to have a carb drink on hand (waxy maize with Amino's if possible). I have dosed upto 6 caps a day with great results, so don't be afraid to add additional caps. Does not really matter when you take the single caps...the GDA aspect stays with you all day.
 

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That won't be over kill. Just enjoy the pumps & endurance!
 
TommyTuffGuy

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Is Follidrone 2.0 with M-Test a good run? I just started M-Test today....
 
Ricky10

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I just don't understand why it should be taken prewo if it's anti-inflammatory...it kinda goes against what X-Gels does for example?

That being said, good to know I can just take it with my Tr1umph and go. Sometimes I take Tr1umph + High Volume, I hope it won't be overkill to add F2.0 in there as well prewo
The following is directly from Brundel when I asked the same question:

There are conflicting views regarding exercise and antioxidants. One study indicated that resveratrol hindered muscle growth but resveratrol hinders muscle growth not because its an antioxidant but most likely because its antiandrogenic.
Also the reasoning is that antioxidants reduce ROS (reactive oxygen species) in skeletal muscle but this I would think happens at ultra high doses and is independent of exercise. Meaning its gonna happen regardless of when you take it and regardless if you train or dont train.

"CONCLUSIONS:
Vitamin E and α-lipoic acid supplementation suppresses skeletal muscle mitochondrial biogenesis, regardless of training status."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21085043

Antioxidants also offer a host of benefits for athletes and the anabolic effects of epi and ecklonia and Q/N and Flos carth outweigh any potential negatives. This is supported by the vast influx of positive reports from users, most of who take FD2 pre workout.
You can of course try it both ways.
Try Pre workout for 2 weeks and then change to am/Pm or something for 2 weeks. See if there is any noticeable differences.

I seem to notice significant differences when I take mine about an hour before I train. Endurance is up, strength seems to be up, energy seems to be up, I can breathe easier. ACE inhibitors (ecklonia cava) increases exercise capacity. Quercetin/niacin increases VO2max and vasodilates. Flos carth reduces perceived pain and epicatechin has well documented acute exercise benefits.

My verdict is any negatives are vastly outweighed by positives.
 
mrhankey87

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The following is directly from Brundel when I asked the same question:

There are conflicting views regarding exercise and antioxidants. One study indicated that resveratrol hindered muscle growth but resveratrol hinders muscle growth not because its an antioxidant but most likely because its antiandrogenic.
Also the reasoning is that antioxidants reduce ROS (reactive oxygen species) in skeletal muscle but this I would think happens at ultra high doses and is independent of exercise. Meaning its gonna happen regardless of when you take it and regardless if you train or dont train.

"CONCLUSIONS:
Vitamin E and α-lipoic acid supplementation suppresses skeletal muscle mitochondrial biogenesis, regardless of training status."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21085043

Antioxidants also offer a host of benefits for athletes and the anabolic effects of epi and ecklonia and Q/N and Flos carth outweigh any potential negatives. This is supported by the vast influx of positive reports from users, most of who take FD2 pre workout.
You can of course try it both ways.
Try Pre workout for 2 weeks and then change to am/Pm or something for 2 weeks. See if there is any noticeable differences.

I seem to notice significant differences when I take mine about an hour before I train. Endurance is up, strength seems to be up, energy seems to be up, I can breathe easier. ACE inhibitors (ecklonia cava) increases exercise capacity. Quercetin/niacin increases VO2max and vasodilates. Flos carth reduces perceived pain and epicatechin has well documented acute exercise benefits.

My verdict is any negatives are vastly outweighed by positives.
What a reply!!! This should be sticked somewhere, lol
 

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Hey guys I just got 2 bottles of Follidrone I plan to start running soon. My only prior epicatechin experience was with Epi-Cat and I had good results with that. From everything I've read Follidrone 2.0 would appear to blow that away.

I do have some dosing questions, though. The typical dosing appears to be 1 in the AM and 2 preworkout. However, I typically don't eat carbs at breakfast and with the hypo possibilities I would think Follidrone with no carbs isn't recommended. Any suggestions here for dosing? The 2 PWO will definitely be taken.
 
TheMovement

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Just take the two pwo and or another one later on. I use bcaas and gatorade as my intra and so far it's been golden.

Am I take my one cap with a drinkable Greek yogurt, breakfast oatmeal bar and a piece of fruit and no hypo signs for me.
 
TheMrMuscle

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Hey guys I just got 2 bottles of Follidrone I plan to start running soon. My only prior epicatechin experience was with Epi-Cat and I had good results with that. From everything I've read Follidrone 2.0 would appear to blow that away.

I do have some dosing questions, though. The typical dosing appears to be 1 in the AM and 2 preworkout. However, I typically don't eat carbs at breakfast and with the hypo possibilities I would think Follidrone with no carbs isn't recommended. Any suggestions here for dosing? The 2 PWO will definitely be taken.
It seems to be very individual how easy you go hypo on this. Ive taken 2 on an empty stomach in the morning before hitting the gym without problems. While others need tons of carbs to keep them out of hypo. So my advice is to just try it out and see.

But if you are worried just take your AM dose with your second meal instead.
 

sdub88

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Thanks guys I will experiment with it, either take it with my second meal around 11 AM or I'll take it in the evening. I'll try the second meal option first.

I'm assuming a pre-workout meal with some oatmeal/fruit would be sufficient carbs ~30-45 grams or should I up it higher? I take BCAAs intra--sometimes mixed with dextrose or a similar carb I'll keep it on hand in case.

Can't wait to start this run!
 

bigsmall

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Thanks guys I will experiment with it, either take it with my second meal around 11 AM or I'll take it in the evening. I'll try the second meal option first.

I'm assuming a pre-workout meal with some oatmeal/fruit would be sufficient carbs ~30-45 grams or should I up it higher? I take BCAAs intra--sometimes mixed with dextrose or a similar carb I'll keep it on hand in case.

Can't wait to start this run!
Sounds like a great plan. I would take the FD2 with that carb meal.
 
brundel

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Thanks guys I will experiment with it, either take it with my second meal around 11 AM or I'll take it in the evening. I'll try the second meal option first.

I'm assuming a pre-workout meal with some oatmeal/fruit would be sufficient carbs ~30-45 grams or should I up it higher? I take BCAAs intra--sometimes mixed with dextrose or a similar carb I'll keep it on hand in case.

Can't wait to start this run!
Dont be afraid to eat ALOT more carbs than normal.
And dont be afraid to eat ALOT more cals than normal. Many guys are losing weight even eating above caloric maintenance and the vast majority of the carbs you eat will be utilized and shuttled into muscles. I think you may need more than 30g carbs.

I just did a 100g carb meal and have 70g of waxy maize in my water bottle. Headed to the gym.
Of course you may weight more or less than me and may need more or less than me but......I suggest more carbs than normal.
 
Jiigzz

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What a reply!!! This should be sticked somewhere, lol
Except it is partially wrong because even anti androgenic drugs do not hinder muscle gain.

Anti oxidants have plenty of data that they inhibit the adaptative process to exercise
 
muscleupcrohn

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It's also not completely cut and dry; some antioxidants have been shown to inhibit the adaptive process, but some "antioxidants," or at least things with antioxidant properties, have been shown to do the opposite:
This study demonstrates that the ingestion of a blueberry smoothie prior to and after EIMD accelerates recovery of muscle peak isometric strength. This effect, although independent of the beverage’s inherent antioxidant capacity, appears to involve an up-regulation of adaptive processes, i.e. endogenous antioxidant processes, activated by the combined actions of the eccentric exercise and blueberry consumption. These findings may benefit the sporting community who should consider dietary interventions that specifically target health and performance adaptation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3583121/
 
muscleupcrohn

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The following is directly from Brundel when I asked the same question:

There are conflicting views regarding exercise and antioxidants. One study indicated that resveratrol hindered muscle growth but resveratrol hinders muscle growth not because its an antioxidant but most likely because its antiandrogenic.
Also the reasoning is that antioxidants reduce ROS (reactive oxygen species) in skeletal muscle but this I would think happens at ultra high doses and is independent of exercise. Meaning its gonna happen regardless of when you take it and regardless if you train or dont train.

"CONCLUSIONS:
Vitamin E and α-lipoic acid supplementation suppresses skeletal muscle mitochondrial biogenesis, regardless of training status."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21085043

Antioxidants also offer a host of benefits for athletes and the anabolic effects of epi and ecklonia and Q/N and Flos carth outweigh any potential negatives. This is supported by the vast influx of positive reports from users, most of who take FD2 pre workout.
You can of course try it both ways.
Try Pre workout for 2 weeks and then change to am/Pm or something for 2 weeks. See if there is any noticeable differences.

I seem to notice significant differences when I take mine about an hour before I train. Endurance is up, strength seems to be up, energy seems to be up, I can breathe easier. ACE inhibitors (ecklonia cava) increases exercise capacity. Quercetin/niacin increases VO2max and vasodilates. Flos carth reduces perceived pain and epicatechin has well documented acute exercise benefits.

My verdict is any negatives are vastly outweighed by positives.
Did that study actually use pre/intra/peri workout dosing, or just added to the diet throughout the day?

Here's some more reading:
Following acute exercise, supplementation with vitamin C and E did not attenuate skeletal muscle oxidative stress or increased gene expression of mitochondrial biogenesis markers. However, supplementation attenuated some (SOD, TFAM) of the increased skeletal muscle adaptations following training in healthy young men.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26482865/
Vitamin C is an essential component of the diet and may reduce the adverse effects of exercise-induced reactive oxygen species, including muscle damage, immune dysfunction, and fatigue. However, reactive oxygen species may mediate beneficial training adaptations that vitamin C attenuates; indeed, from a total of 12 studies, vitamin C in doses >1 g·d(-1) impaired sport performance substantially in four of four studies, possibly by reducing mitochondrial biogenesis, while a further four studies demonstrated impairments that were not statistically significant. Doses of ∼0.2 g·d(-1) of vitamin C consumed through five or more servings of fruit and vegetables may be sufficient to reduce oxidative stress and provide other health benefits without impairing training adaptations.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22777327/
Key Points
Although antioxidant supplements are generally believed to give health benefits, recent experiments show that they may adversely affect adaptations to endurance exercise.
This study is the first to investigate the effects of high dosages of vitamins C and E on the cellular and physiological adaptations to strength training in humans.
Here we report that vitamin C and E supplementation interfered with exercise-induced signalling in muscle cells after a session of strength training, by reducing the phosphorylation of p70S6 kinase and mitogen-activated protein kinases p38 and ERK1/2.
The vitamin C and E supplement did not significantly blunt muscle hypertrophy during 10 weeks of training; however, some measurements of muscle strength revealed lower increases in the supplemented group than the placebo group.
Even though the cellular events are not clearly reflected in physiological and performance measurements, this study implies that redox signalling is important for inducing skeletal muscle adaptations to strength training and that vitamin C and E supplements in high dosages should be avoided by healthy, young individuals engaged in strength training.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270502/
CONCLUSION: Vitamin C supplementation decreases training efficiency because it prevents some cellular adaptations to exercise.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18175748/
 
Jiigzz

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Youd have to actually read the FTs to see why there is a large variation in responses, because conclusions don't house the 'why'
 
muscleupcrohn

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Youd have to actually read the FTs to see why there is a large variation in responses, because conclusions don't house the 'why'
I agree, I was just showing that it may not be quite as cut and dry as some people make it, in either direction.
 
Jiigzz

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It's hard to say, ill read some of the FTs at work. A lot of the studies posted lately do not reflect what the conclusions state.

Never trust the conclusion
 
brundel

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Except it is partially wrong because even anti androgenic drugs do not hinder muscle gain.

Anti oxidants have plenty of data that they inhibit the adaptative process to exercise
Wow.
This is like saying androgens, testosterone, DHT and basically all of the steroids that bind to androgen receptors dont effect muscle growth.

HISTORY
An anti-androgen, or androgen antagonist, is a substance that tends to inhibit the production, activity or effects of a male sex hormone. It can be used to treat severe male sexual disorders including prostate cancer and aids in the process of hormone replacement treatment. Anti-androgens work as inhibitors of prostate cancer. They block the male hormone testosterone from binding to androgen receptors. This is useful because prostate cancer requires testosterone to grow. Anti-androgens also aid in hormone replacement treatment. Hormone replacement treatment is the replacement of natural hormones with hormones of the other sex. Transgender or transsexual men take anti-androgens to stifle their testosterone levels usually in order to prepare for sexual reassignment surgery (Prostate Cancer Research Institute, 2005).

SIDE EFFECTS
Although these anti-androgens are useful for treating prostate cancer and aiding the hormone replacement treatment, they have many side effects. Side effects include mood and cognitive changes, loss in strength and muscle mass, loss of libido, increase in gynecomastia, nausea, diarrhea, the loss of appetite, dizziness, trouble sleeping and many more (Prostate Cancer Research Institute, 2005).

according to Deutsches Arzteblatt International it is not uncommon for men to lose between 12 and 66 percent of their muscle strength due to the therapy.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/39561-antiandrogen-side-effects/


Antiandrogens had a negative effect on muscle strength, minimizing the effects of strength training
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12590431
 
Jiigzz

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Wow.

HISTORY
An anti-androgen, or androgen antagonist, is a substance that tends to inhibit the production, activity or effects of a male sex hormone. It can be used to treat severe male sexual disorders including prostate cancer and aids in the process of hormone replacement treatment. Anti-androgens work as inhibitors of prostate cancer. They block the male hormone testosterone from binding to androgen receptors. This is useful because prostate cancer requires testosterone to grow. Anti-androgens also aid in hormone replacement treatment. Hormone replacement treatment is the replacement of natural hormones with hormones of the other sex. Transgender or transsexual men take anti-androgens to stifle their testosterone levels usually in order to prepare for sexual reassignment surgery (Prostate Cancer Research Institute, 2005).

SIDE EFFECTS
Although these anti-androgens are useful for treating prostate cancer and aiding the hormone replacement treatment, they have many side effects. Side effects include mood and cognitive changes, loss in strength and muscle mass, loss of libido, increase in gynecomastia, nausea, diarrhea, the loss of appetite, dizziness, trouble sleeping and many more (Prostate Cancer Research Institute, 2005).

according to Deutsches Arzteblatt International it is not uncommon for men to lose between 12 and 66 percent of their muscle strength due to the therapy.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/39561-antiandrogen-side-effects/


Antiandrogens had a negative effect on muscle strength, minimizing the effects of strength training
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12590431
I made a Derp. Nvm. LOL.

Was specifically meaning some anti DHT drugs still have data showing no loss in muscle mass
 
brundel

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Certainly might be able to make an argument for antioxidants as they have so many positives but antiandrogens. No ;)
 
Jiigzz

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Certainly might be able to make an argument for antioxidants as they have so many positives but antiandrogens. No ;)
I dont even know why I commented lol. Follidrone is going to be better for your gains than it could ever be worse.

Tried it, loved it
 
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Darkhorse192

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sorry to interject a question here, but if i currently take a GDA (slintesity and Na-R-ALA) before larger carb meals, would it be advisable to drop this practice before starting an FD2 run due to its own GDA like properties?
 
MidwestBeast

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sorry to interject a question here, but if i currently take a GDA (slintesity and Na-R-ALA) before larger carb meals, would it be advisable to drop this practice before starting an FD2 run due to its own GDA like properties?
No reason they can't be combined, IMO. If you feel hypo, you would want to space them out timing wise, but I never noticed that (when utilizing the same stack + agmatine).
 

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sorry to interject a question here, but if i currently take a GDA (slintesity and Na-R-ALA) before larger carb meals, would it be advisable to drop this practice before starting an FD2 run due to its own GDA like properties?
FD2 feels more like an all day and milder GDA - in that it does not cause an immediate pump like slintensity does, but more of an all day pump and fullness. I have experimented for months and like to run both (1 cap of each) on higher carb meals. However, around workout time, I would try to stick to 2 caps of FD2 and avoid taking a GDA with it. Dont be afraid to eat more carbs on FD2 - you will stay lean and I would advice having intra-workout carbs (like waxy maize). Good luck!
 
brundel

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sorry to interject a question here, but if i currently take a GDA (slintesity and Na-R-ALA) before larger carb meals, would it be advisable to drop this practice before starting an FD2 run due to its own GDA like properties?
Test drive it for a few days. See how you feel. Also I know this sounds like overkill but lots of guys I know have a glucose meter.
They are relatively cheap and you can test to see how its really effecting you.
 
Darkhorse192

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FD2 feels more like an all day and milder GDA - in that it does not cause an immediate pump like slintensity does, but more of an all day pump and fullness. I have experimented for months and like to run both (1 cap of each) on higher carb meals. However, around workout time, I would try to stick to 2 caps of FD2 and avoid taking a GDA with it. Dont be afraid to eat more carbs on FD2 - you will stay lean and I would advice having intra-workout carbs (like waxy maize). Good luck!
Test drive it for a few days. See how you feel. Also I know this sounds like overkill but lots of guys I know have a glucose meter.
They are relatively cheap and you can test to see how its really effecting you.
No reason they can't be combined, IMO. If you feel hypo, you would want to space them out timing wise, but I never noticed that (when utilizing the same stack + agmatine).
Thank you all gentlemen, I truly appreciate the responses.
 
appollo86

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Guys is there any sense in taking gda while on follidrone? Or is it overkill, as follidrone is acting as gda?
 
brundel

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Guys is there any sense in taking gda while on follidrone? Or is it overkill, as follidrone is acting as gda?
If you do take both be certain that 1. you take them apart from each other and 2. your getting ample carbs.
Hypoglycemia sucks. When testing this I would keep a gatorade or something with you all the time. If you feel these sides. Pound it down.
 

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