Natty Supps or SARMs?

[letsgetpumped]

Alright you guys,

I am looking into taking either:

X gels/ABE stack or LGD 4033 cycle. I have been researching both for a while now and I am wondering what is the best bang for my buck?

Both equally expensive but one seems to have better/faster results (LGD). I am gonna end up doing one of them either way but need honest opinions on what is the better quality for muscle mass and quicker gains. Also if you are a promoter for the supplement, I will disregard your comment cause I can usually tell who you are. I want legitimate answers, which one would you rather take and what would give the best results?

 

[RANS0M]

Have you ever run a sarm/ph/steroid cycle before?

Need those stats height weight age how long you've been lifting etc...

LGD you'll need a full pct

 

[letsgetpumped]

Nope. But been doing research for like a month now.

Female.
5'6
145 lbs
23
Lifting for 3 years now.

I am aware of taking the PCT with LGD. Do you know if the shutdown isn't as bad for women? Still would take a PCT obviously but just wondering.

 

[RANS0M]

Nope. But been doing research for like a month now.

Female.
5'6
145 lbs
23
Lifting for 3 years now.

I am aware of taking the PCT with LGD. Do you know if the shutdown isn't as bad for women? Still would take a PCT obviously but just wondering.

What are you goals? Lean mass? Cut/recomp?

I'm not too familiar with women taking sarms and etc...If you wanna take the sarm route look into Osta and GW.

 

[letsgetpumped]

Just to bulk/increase muscle mass. Don't really care about body fat.
How come you recommend Osta and GW?

 

[justhere4comm]

SARMS

Stay natural. You're 23.

 

[bigmonster555]

seems like you're going to do the lgd so Id say just go for it

...make sure to use pct after

get those gainzzz:veryhappy:

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Long time since I looked at the trials - was LGD even tested in females? If you ever plan on having children, you may want to research the crap out of females taking LGD. I seem to recall a warning about Ostarine and females from Yates84's wife.

 

[MidwestBeast]

I say wait to 25 to everyone (male or female), personally.

What is your experience with the OTC supplements that are around? If you haven't used much, you may be surprised at what some of them could do for you. If you've already tested those waters and still want more, I think you have your answer.

 

[john.patterson]

If you're looking for quicker, more noticeable results, LGD would be the way to go. But keep in mind you run the risk of side effects, and it will probably cost you more to run an LGD cycle and follow it with a proper PCT. LGD-4033 is very suppressive, and it can throw your hormones out of balance. The shut down isn't as drastic for women, but it can still cause a hormone imbalance.

SARM's will always yield quicker results than natural products. Greater risk, greater return. Personally, I would try X-Gels first before jumping into SARM's, especially at 23 years old. If you're been training consistently for 3 years, progress will definitely be slow, but you can still gain strength and get stronger naturally with proper diet and training.

 

[Lee_Westwood]

Agree with John ^^

Instead of deciding between the two see what results you can get from the safer option before risking Xy&Z with LGD - i used LGD last year and had a pretty slewed bloods panel afterwards .. could of been the source or a reaction .. but all in all the ' gains ' werent enough to appease my ****ed up bloods panel! I ran PCT for 8 weeks just to get back in line and im male! Pricey business if you ask me

 

[letsgetpumped]

The only "supplements" I have used and currently use are creatine, peshighvolume pre workout and bcaa's. But they aren't doing that much for me in terms of gains.

 

[Lee_Westwood]

They wont as your gains will be decided by training , genetics and nutrition predominantly .. id say LGD will add maybe 5-10% on to that if your lucky - my honest advice would be avoid it and go with something easier to use with no recovery needed

 

[letsgetpumped]

I understand! I think it's just more frustrating as a woman because I see guys in the gym who look "swole" and the way I wanna look but I feel like its taking me soooo long. And I understand that it is harder for females because of the amount of estrogen we have. But I am the type of female that I don't wanna just get a lean, toned body I want a jacked up body. I do want the masculine body type in the sense that I want large muscles. And the only places I really see females who have that look I want are a) Crossfitters or b) Bodybuilders and have definitely used something to help assist.

Also, I don't plan on having kids. But I do understand that with taking SARMS or other things it can still mess with other things and to do blood work etc.

 

[letsgetpumped]

What would you recommend for me then? As far as supps go?

I have the food/training covered, just the gains are so slow!

 

[MidwestBeast]

On the natural supplement side, I would suggest looking at ArA (MN X Factor or SNS X-Gels http://store.lockoutforums.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=2002179) and PA (you could get it separate or use a product like OL Tr1umph). I haven't used PES Anabeta since the OG bottle, but the newer one is still one many use (http://store.lockoutforums.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=105&products_id=2001358). Follidrone 2.0 is another I'd look at. Performax Mass Max XT or CEL M-Test are others that have good reviews.

 

[Nac]

I think I remember VO2Maxima saying she has run ostarine, she might have an opinion on females running SARMs and what (if anything) is a good idea for PCT if you go that route.

 

[VO2Maxima]

I think I remember VO2Maxima saying she has run ostarine, she might have an opinion on females running SARMs and what (if anything) is a good idea for PCT if you go that route.

I've used osta at 10mg for 8 weeks and LGD at 4mg for 6 weeks. I actually prefer osta out of the two...I personally got no sides from that dosage (obviously YMMV, no one can ever promise that you won't have sides, and obviously this is even more important for women for whom there is any possibility they may want kids in the future), recomped off that dose, and I also appreciated the healing properties that it has. It may have been that I should have run LGD for a full 8 weeks, but given that it is a bit more aggressive, I went conservative.
Women aren't really doing the same kind of HPTA recovery as men are. I have seen a million opinions on this, and not really any real research (most likely not really researched for ethical reasons...but if anyone has seen anything, please enlighten me!). For something like a SARM at the low doses that most women use, something like Nolva may do more to mess with your hormones than the SARM itself. I used an OTC PCT, which may or may not have been necessary but isn't going to hurt. Please note that this is anecdotal, not necessarily a recommendation, since there really isn't a lot of information out there for women specifically. I would still recommend continuing to do as much research as possible before jumping in.

I've also used the ABE/X-Gels combo (also stacked with LCLT and soy lecithin). As far as natty stacks go, that's one of the best ones. You're not going to get the same results as with a SARM, but obviously there is less risk. Given that you're 23 and haven't even tested the water with natural anabolics yet, this is the route I'd recommend for now. The general recommendation is to try them solo first, see how you react to them, before stacking them. The eventual stack I'd recommend is ABE + X-Gels + Tr1umph...ABE and the LCLT in Tr1umph will prevent the conversion of ArA to undesirable metabolites, and the soy lecithin in Tr1umph will act as an emulsifier. Beyond that, Tr1umph and ABE also include several ingredients on their own that increase power, improve performance, aid with body composition, increase appetite, and keep your muscles looking full. Tr1umph can be run year round, ABE should be run for 8 weeks (with a 4 week break after 8 weeks), and X-Gels can be run for 50 workouts.

 

[Lee_Westwood]

Solid experience and advice right there

does anyone have experience with performax massmax xt yet ? Dont want to go the anabolic route but want to try something new before i begin to cut at the end of march

 

[booneman77]

Solid experience and advice right there

does anyone have experience with performax massmax xt yet ? Dont want to go the anabolic route but want to try something new before i begin to cut at the end of march

Its very new so theres only beta logs I believe at this point (they didn't even know the name when they logged it so it might be ahrd to find them).

That said, obviously something hormonal like LGD will give faster gains. its just a fact. That said, LGD can be a pretty tough cycle and the sides could make it tough enough that you wouldnt be able to maximize it, and even worse make pct time miserable and potetnially lose most of what you gained anyways. Im not a fan at all of SARMS as ive tried a few and had minimal results and far more sides than expected. To me the cost:benefit is atrocious with them. If youre gonna go hormonal, get a real PH and dont waste your time. If not, ARA is about the only studied, and proven natural supp shown to increase hypertrophy. Xgels/factor are far and away at the top of the class for anything natural and science backs it up.

 

[Lee_Westwood]

Will look into the gels/factor

I share the same feelings with SARMS mate , awful returns for such risky and under studied ingredients .. i read somewhere that GW can rapidly encourage cancer !

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Its very new so theres only beta logs I believe at this point (they didn't even know the name when they logged it so it might be ahrd to find them).

That said, obviously something hormonal like LGD will give faster gains. its just a fact. That said, LGD can be a pretty tough cycle and the sides could make it tough enough that you wouldnt be able to maximize it, and even worse make pct time miserable and potetnially lose most of what you gained anyways. Im not a fan at all of SARMS as ive tried a few and had minimal results and far more sides than expected. To me the cost:benefit is atrocious with them. If youre gonna go hormonal, get a real PH and dont waste your time. If not, ARA is about the only studied, and proven natural supp shown to increase hypertrophy. Xgels/factor are far and away at the top of the class for anything natural and science backs it up.

I completely agree that you can't compare something natural to something non-natural in terms of gains, but you also don't usually have to deal with nearly the same sides, and don't have to worry about PCT. I also agree that if you're going to to the non-natural route, you should use the real deal, but I haven't turned in my natty card yet, haha.

Solid experience and advice right there

does anyone have experience with performax massmax xt yet ? Dont want to go the anabolic route but want to try something new before i begin to cut at the end of march

Here are the beta logs:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/282698-performax-labs-natural.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/282772-naturally-growing-performax.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/282730-beta-testing-new.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/282692-performax-beta-anabolic.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/282581-performax-labs-natural.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/282578-performax-beta-testing.html

Of course, it's a natural supplement, so don't expect PH-type gains, but I really enjoyed my 4-week beta-log of it, and think it'd be even better for a full 8 weeks. It should really shine during a bulk; I gained a nice amount of weight, noticed a good increase in appetite with it, and could eat a lot without feeling full/bloated.

 

[solidsnake]

SARMS

Stay natural. You're 23.

This up your calories and over time the benefits will come

 

[Lee_Westwood]

Its very new so theres only beta logs I believe at this point (they didn't even know the name when they logged it so it might be ahrd to find them).

That said, obviously something hormonal like LGD will give faster gains. its just a fact. That said, LGD can be a pretty tough cycle and the sides could make it tough enough that you wouldnt be able to maximize it, and even worse make pct time miserable and potetnially lose most of what you gained anyways. Im not a fan at all of SARMS as ive tried a few and had minimal results and far more sides than expected. To me the cost:benefit is atrocious with them. If youre gonna go hormonal, get a real PH and dont waste your time. If not, ARA is about the only studied, and proven natural supp shown to increase hypertrophy. Xgels/factor are far and away at the top of the class for anything natural and science backs it up.

Just ordered 2 100 gel bottles of the Xfactor advanced to try .. gonna run for 8 weeks at 3 gels per day split into 3 doses i guess .. meal 1 - pre and post

 

[letsgetpumped]

Awesome! Thank you. I appreciate all the information. Just ordered the X-Gels and will let you know how that goes

 

[Lee_Westwood]

Awesome! Thank you. I appreciate all the information. Just ordered the X-Gels and will let you know how that goes

Be awesome to do a male & female comparison maybe - ive just done the same thing cant be doing with LGD again! Been 12 months now and im not going down that route again

 

[solidsnake]

Will look into the gels/factor

I share the same feelings with SARMS mate , awful returns for such risky and under studied ingredients .. i read somewhere that GW can rapidly encourage cancer !

Not exactly true, those study's were made on rats and
1: they were mega doses that equate to taking well over a gram a day for over a year in humans
2: we are not rats, just because it happened to them doesn't necessarily mean it will happen to humans
These claims were quashed soon afterwards

There are some concerns though if you have already existing liver damage but if your living a healthy lifestyle this wouldn't even be an issue if dosed and cycled correctly

 

[Lee_Westwood]

Not exactly true, those study's were made on rats and
1: they were mega doses that equate to taking well over a gram a day for over a year in humans
2: we are not rats, just because it happened to them doesn't necessarily mean it will happen to humans
These claims were quashed soon afterwards

There are some concerns though if you have already existing liver damage but if your living a healthy lifestyle this wouldn't even be an issue if dosed and cycled correctly

Totally agree and very valid points , however for me personally - its a bit risky for such a severe penalty IF it could encourage it in humans too , each person is different and will react differently to various doses .. knowing me i would only need 20mgs per day and id be done for lol - ive not really known anyone run it and feedback their results and experiences with it though i must say

 

[solidsnake]

I've ran it on various occasions at 20mg and freaking loved it, but regards to cancer, i mean come on, now there saying red meat can cause cancer!

 

[Lee_Westwood]

I've ran it on various occasions at 20mg and freaking loved it, but regards to cancer, i mean come on, now there saying red meat can cause cancer!

Which brands in particular bud

 

[pistonsgirl]

Awesome! Thank you. I appreciate all the information. Just ordered the X-Gels and will let you know how that goes

Please keep us updated on your progress. I'm a female as well and would love to know if it worked for you.

I just started my first sarm cycle with MK-677 and SR-9009 for a cut so I'll keep you updated as well

 

[letsgetpumped]

They say everything causes cancer apparently. Might as well live your life and have fun! What cycle did you do?

 

[letsgetpumped]

Is this your first time doing a sarm cycle? Definitely keep your updates coming! Hope it works well for you

 

[solidsnake]

Which brands in particular bud

I've only had caos and pain as solo caps but I've ran endurashred from Olympus labs ( osta and gw) that was really good too but there's plenty of gtg brands out there for gw mate. Brawn should be good too

 

[booneman77]

Just ordered 2 100 gel bottles of the Xfactor advanced to try .. gonna run for 8 weeks at 3 gels per day split into 3 doses i guess .. meal 1 - pre and post

That's not how you take ARA haha.

Dose 4 caps, 45min pre workout if fasted (haven't eaten in at least 3hrs) or, if you had a pre workout meal, take the 4 caps after your warmups at the gym. This is to ensure that the ara goes to skeletal muscle and not just runs through your body like any other fatty acid.

You don't need to take them on non workout days either. 50 workout days only (unless you workout less than 3x a week, then dose at least 3-4 days)

 

[shockrock3]

Personally I've used both...I'm pretty much used everything ha.

Can't compare them...one attaches to your androgen receptors and well the other doesn't. I blew up on LGD between 12-16mg, like f'in pumped out of my god damn mind. It was intense.

Natty supps I'd rather take during PCT....FD2 is part of my PCT amongst other things. I've used ArA before and it does provide some good pumps, you just can't compare it to LGD, no way.

 

[pistonsgirl]

Is this your first time doing a sarm cycle? Definitely keep your updates coming! Hope it works well for you

Yes ma'am! First cycle! And of course I will! Just at the beginning of my cut before a show I have at the end of April so we'll see how they play out!

 

[warbird01]

Awesome! Thank you. I appreciate all the information. Just ordered the X-Gels and will let you know how that goes

Awesome! Check our this thread if you haven't already: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/246394-arachidonic-acid-help-93.html#post5645114

 

[letsgetpumped]

Alright do you guys think I should stack X Gels with ABE or just try the X gels alone for the first try?

 

[warbird01]

Alright do you guys think I should stack X Gels with ABE or just try the X gels alone for the first try?

x gels stand alone first for sure.

 

[Fastone]

Here's a question, I did a Ostarine run (8 weeks, 20 mg per day) which ended around the end of Nov, I was happy with my results. I am now into my second week on the triple stock protocol and I've been told that sarms don't have much of an effect on libido but I find myself quite aroused a bit more than normal. I'm obviously not complaining as at my age (64), that's cool as hell. I just wonder if it's because of my age possibly and that I've been feeling so damn good from the sarms. Oh and btw, my bloodwork at my last drs appt in Dec was as normal.

 

[warbird01]

Here's a question, I did a Ostarine run (8 weeks, 20 mg per day) which ended around the end of Nov, I was happy with my results. I am now into my second week on the triple stock protocol and I've been told that sarms don't have much of an effect on libido but I find myself quite aroused a bit more than normal. I'm obviously not complaining as at my age (64), that's cool as hell. I just wonder if it's because of my age possibly and that I've been feeling so damn good from the sarms. Oh and btw, my bloodwork at my last drs appt in Dec was as normal.

I am in my 20s and ostarine increases my libido. I wouldn't say SARMS can't increase your libido.

 

[Fastone]

I am in my 20s and ostarine increases my libido. I wouldn't say SARMS can't increase your libido.

So far my experience has me wondering if these sarms are almost too good to be true. I'm hanging in the minimum range dose wise but am noticing the difference adding the Andarine and especially the Cardarine on this run and I'm only like 2 weeks in now.

 

[warbird01]

So far my experience has me wondering if these sarms are almost too good to be true. I'm hanging in the minimum range dose wise but am noticing the difference adding the Andarine and especially the Cardarine on this run and I'm only like 2 weeks in now.

If you have never run anything hormonal or haven't in a very long time than anything will work great for you. Keep riding that SARM train if it's working!

 

[Fastone]

I'm one of those people who doesn't expect miracles so my expectations for the Ostarine run weren't that high. Yes It's been a while since I ran anything of this nature, phs worked great for me but I don't need the sides from them. The Ostarine run far exceeded my expectations so that's why I'm trying this Triple stack. We shall see