Need major help with joints!!

[saderboy80]

I know there are already many threads on this topic but their are new products on the market weekly, so just looking for some help and new knowledge!

To start I am 23yrs and have MRI and X-Ray confirmed osteoarthritis in both knees and my right shoulder (cold weather sucks). I have had two labrum repairs done on my right shoulder (2010, 2011) and more recently right shoulder reconstructive surgery(May 2016). Complete with bone graft, moving the attachment sight of the short head of my biceps and pec minor, using my rotator cuff ligament to construct a new labrum and shorting of the proximal insertion site of the triceps tendon.
Since my 2010 surgery, I have taken fish oil, glucosamine/chondroitin (w/ MSM), SNS's Cissus and ibuprofen religiously. I dose the Cissus higher on days my joints are more sore then others. Right after all 3 surgeries I also took calcium and Vit D to help with recovery.

I am trying to get back into the swing of things with weight training after my surgery in May 2016. Looking for an aesthetic body, do to the surgeries my muscle symmetry is far too low to consider my dream of becoming a body builder.

I also perform (static stretching, foam rolling and light cardio) in sweatpants and a sweatshirt to help warm up my joints before lifting. Then apply icy hot to my shoulder and begin lifting.

I keep weight very light and aim for higher reps and muscle time under tension to reap the most benefits I can without using heavier weight.

Not being able to lift heavy is killing me! Any recommendations as to new supplements or ingredients that help with joint pain would be appreciated!! Or any odd tricks to help decrease joint pain. Western medicine just isn't cutting it anymore.

 

[riffdex]

Having some of the same issues, subscribing to this thread but unfortunately cannot offer much advice that you don't already seem to be following.

I take Krill Oil capsule, 1 Tbsp flaxseed oil, Glucosamine-Condroitin daily. I have severe inflammation in my right wrist (De Quervains) and I'm clueless how to fix this. Orthopedic doctor was no help.

You're right that western medicine is failing us. Have you thought about taking an ice bath to reduce inflammation across the body? Sounds horrible I know, but you get used to it and it is actually invigorating. Not sure how much it would help your condition but throwIng it out there.

Also, add fresh ginger and fresh garlic to your diet. I noticed an improvement in the inflammation right away after started eating this daily (although overall diet is just as important - ginger and garlic won't do the job alone).

 

[saderboy80]

Ice bath, fresh ginger and garlic! Great ideas for helping reduces inflammation!

Thank-you!

 

[saderboy80]

Also, I take a standard multivitamin, extra B-Vitamins and decaffeinated green tea extract (for the antioxidant properties).

More advice, other supplements and even links to other threads of the same topic would be greatly appreciated!

 

[riffdex]

Also, I take a standard multivitamin, extra B-Vitamins and decaffeinated green tea extract (for the antioxidant properties).

More advice, other supplements and even links to other threads of the same topic would be greatly appreciated!

That's fUnny you say that. I also take a B-complex vitamin, and drink 1-2cups of decaf green tea daily! I don't take multivitamin currently. Perhaps I should start!

 

[riffdex]

What is SNS's Cissus? Also I read that ibuprofen and NSAIDs can actually impede body's healing and should be used only in moderation. I stopped taking ibuprofen completely and hoping that my chronic inflammation will one day heal itself.

htt ps://ww w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23662318/

htt ps://ww w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22744434/

(Remove spaces from URL as this site would not allow me to paste the link)

If you find more links/threads on this topic please please please forward to me. Thanks!

 

[Jiigzz]

For an all in one, Joint Support XT from SNS is one to look at. It contains NEM (Natural Eggshell Membrane), Boswellin, ParActin, and Glucosamine at studied dosages; all of which help reduce joint stiffness, improve symptoms of pain, improve joint function and decrease inflammation (which is a primary cause of osteoarthritis).

NSAIDs can, and do help reduce inflammation, but also can be rather destructive long term, making them less ideal for continual treatment (maybe save them for days where pain is unbearable).

You could also go for Curcumin w/ piperine. Dirt cheap, and incredibly effective for inflammation and joint health.

 

[Jiigzz]

What is SNS's Cissus? Also I read that ibuprofen and NSAIDs can actually impede body's healing and should be used only in moderation. I stopped taking ibuprofen completely and hoping that my chronic inflammation will one day heal itself.

htt ps://ww w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23662318/

htt ps://ww w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22744434/

(Remove spaces from URL as this site would not allow me to paste the link)

If you find more links/threads on this topic please please please forward to me. Thanks!

Chronic inflammation is very unlike acute inflammation in the way it is managed - it generally needs medication of some form to control. While i agree that NSAIDs are not effective long term treatment, I would not advise leaving it untreated either.

 

[riffdex]

Chronic inflammation is very unlike acute inflammation in the way it is managed - it generally needs medication of some form to control. While i agree that NSAIDs are not effective long term treatment, I would not advise leaving it untreated either.

Ortho Doctor said it can only really be treated by resting the hand... And will usually heal itself after 12-18 months in healthy people. I was thinking NSAIDs would prevent it from healing itself?

 

[Jiigzz]

Ortho Doctor said it can only really be treated by resting the hand... And will usually heal itself after 12-18 months in healthy people. I was thinking NSAIDs would prevent it from healing itself?

If your Doc suggested that, go with it. Normally though, chronic inflammation will continue to destroy joints because it flys under the bodies radar for shutting it off

 

[VO2Maxima]

Curious if you know what led to osteoarthritis at such a young age? It's definitely not unheard of in a younger population, but it isn't nearly as common as it is with the elderly.

Definitely keep working out. Exercise will only help. I'm not a huge fan of static stretching prior to lifting, but as long as the holds are kept brief it shouldn't be too much of an issue. Just don't hold it for long stretches...extended static stretching seems to produce an acute strength decrease post-stretch. I'd also suggest adding some banded rotator cuff work in, which should help your shoulder. You should be able to find a bunch of these via Google, but if you need any help, let me know. ALSO, make sure if you're using small plates to do rotator cuff work instead of a band, make sure that gravity is working in the direction you want the resistance in...this is why I generally recommend using bands instead, because I don't see people messing it up nearly as often.

I like PEScience's GenoFlex as a joint supplement. It includes cissus, which you already use, but then also includes boswellia, which has antiinflammatory properties.

 

[saderboy80]

NSAID's are okay for chronic and long term use unless you have problems with blood pressure. Then long term NSAID use is ill advised!!

You are very correct in stating that pre-workout dynamic stretching is counterproductive to strength increases (plenty of literature to verify your statement)!

It is ironic you mention Rotator Cuff work!! My apologies I forgot to mention that I have various Therabands from prior physical therapy that I use. Internal/external rotation, abduction/adduction you name it!!

As for answering your question regarding the osteoarthritis. The shoulder comes from numerous dislocations from high school football, past the point of arthritis to the point it was actually chipping off pieces of bone (hence the reconstructive shoulder surgery).
As for my knees' I began playing tackle football in 4th grade, I had and still have tendinitis (both knees) and osgood-schlatter's (just right knee) the pain is still palpable. Anatomically speaking my right tibial tuberosity is enormous! I've had various physical therapy students attempt to guess the diagnosis claiming it "looks like you have a 2nd knee cap".


PEScience's Genoflex I will look into!!
Thank you for the advice!!

 

[saderboy80]

I will also look into SNS's Joint Support XT!!
Curcumin w/ piperine. Curcumin has anti-inflammatory properties correct?? And Piperine was been known to increase the bio-availablility of supplements right?

Thank you again for the support and advice!!

 

[Jiigzz]

NSAID's are okay for chronic and long term use unless you have problems with blood pressure. Then long term NSAID use is ill advised!!

You are very correct in stating that pre-workout dynamic stretching is counterproductive to strength increases (plenty of literature to verify your statement)!

It is ironic you mention Rotator Cuff work!! My apologies I forgot to mention that I have various Therabands from prior physical therapy that I use. Internal/external rotation, abduction/adduction you name it!!

As for answering your question regarding the osteoarthritis. The shoulder comes from numerous dislocations from high school football, past the point of arthritis to the point it was actually chipping off pieces of bone (hence the reconstructive shoulder surgery).
As for my knees' I began playing tackle football in 4th grade, I had and still have tendinitis (both knees) and osgood-schlatter's (just right knee) the pain is still palpable. Anatomically speaking my right tibial tuberosity is enormous! I've had various physical therapy students attempt to guess the diagnosis claiming it "looks like you have a 2nd knee cap".


PEScience's Genoflex I will look into!!
Thank you for the advice!!

NSAIDs can destroy the stomach lining woth prolonged use, so id always recommend discussing options with your doc. It is a very common treatment, but I would also explore certain other ingredients that have good data on osteoarthritis management as well.

But as always, if your Doc is ok with NSAID use long term, follow their advice

 

[Jiigzz]

I will also look into SNS's Joint Support XT!!
Curcumin w/ piperine. Curcumin has anti-inflammatory properties correct?? And Piperine was been known to increase the bio-availablility of supplements right?

Thank you again for the support and advice!!

Curcumin is an awesome joint product, but has so many health benefits as well. If you Google "priceplow curcumin", they have a read up available on how effective it is for inflammation.

And it's cheap enough that you could use it all the time.

Joint Support XT and Genoflex are also good options as an adjunct. To throw even more selection into the mix, look into Flexatril by Scivation. My only gripe with it is that the loading dose is very expensive, but it has good feedback across the board as well.

 

[saderboy80]

NSAIDs can destroy the stomach lining woth prolonged use, so id always recommend discussing options with your doc. It is a very common treatment, but I would also explore certain other ingredients that have good data on osteoarthritis management as well.

But as always, if your Doc is ok with NSAID use long term, follow their advice

My Orthopedic Surgeon "prescribed" more like highly recommended 800mg ibuprofen x3/day. Personally, I have never experienced the negative side effects. I've had plenty of blood work done to prove so.

I am also a Med Student w/ a B.S. In Human Physiology and an MS in Biomedical Science.
Hence my asking for less "Western Medicine" adjuncts that serve as either joint lubricating, tissue repair or an anti-inflammatory.

 

[saderboy80]

Curcumin is an awesome joint product, but has so many health benefits as well. If you Google "priceplow curcumin", they have a read up available on how effective it is for inflammation.

And it's cheap enough that you could use it all the time.

Joint Support XT and Genoflex are also good options as an adjunct. To throw even more selection into the mix, look into Flexatril by Scivation. My only gripe with it is that the loading dose is very expensive, but it has good feedback across the board as well.

Joint Support XT, Genoflex, Flexatril and Curcumin I will begin my research on these.

I appreciate the help!

 

[Jiigzz]

My Orthopedic Surgeon "prescribed" more like highly recommended 800mg ibuprofen x3/day. Personally, I have never experienced the negative side effects. I've had plenty of blood work done to prove so.

I am also a Med Student w/ a B.S. In Human Physiology and an MS in Biomedical Science.
Hence my asking for less "Western Medicine" adjuncts that serve as either joint lubricating, tissue repair or an anti-inflammatory.

800mg x 3 per day? Wow haha. For how long?

 

[saderboy80]

800mg x 3 per day? Wow haha. For how long?

As long as necessary.

 

[cobri66]

Check out Flexible from Formutech...solid formula also...

 

[saderboy80]

Check out Flexible from Formutech...solid formula also...View attachment 144407

Thank-you!! I will look into this product as well.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Flexatril was effective for me. Other than that curcumin, fish oil and staying hydrated.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

New research indicates that 15g of (yes) gelatin and 200mg of Vitamin C taken PrWO - does some pretty cool stuff:

https://suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/12/100-increase-in-exercise-induced.html

 

[Monte_Cristo]

Agree on vit C its unbelievable how it helps to heal, after months of problem to my thumb due to a wrongly placed hit it took a couple of weeks to heal.

 

[riffdex]

New research indicates that 15g of (yes) gelatin and 200mg of Vitamin C taken PrWO - does some pretty cool stuff:

Amazing! Any supplement that contains both of these in appropriate dosage?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Amazing! Any supplement that contains both of these in appropriate dosage?

Yes It's called Jell-O and Vitamin C Tablets from.... Walmart?

 

[HIT4ME]

I have no joint issues, but have a father and grandmother with severe issues. The ONLY product they both took and agreed helped (actually, saying it was a miracle) was Joint Force by EPharm. It's a great product. I am about to test out the new Injure-Eeze by Evomuse with them - it should be even better as it includes a few extra ingredients and uses Joint Force as the base.

SNS Joint Support XT was decent also.

I like the geletin/vitamin C approach too - you can buy Vitamin C by the KG, get a scoop and just dump it into a drink - if your drink has any kind of citrus/fruity flavor you won't even notice the Vitamin C in there. I put 5-6 g into a gallon of water with a pack of Crystal Light every day.

Agmatine also has some research indicating relief from osteoarthritis and is often overlooked. It may be worth giving a shot, at the very least it will improve the function of a lot of pain killers if you take it about 15 minutes before you take the pain killer.

 

[riffdex]

Okay how much is 15g of Jello lol? I'm ordering some 200 mg Vitamin C tablets right now.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Okay how much is 15g of Jello lol? I'm ordering some 200 mg Vitamin C tablets right now.

I asked Google and he said 1Tbs. If you're a supplement user, I'm sure you have some scoops lying around - half a protein scoop? 3 Creatine Mono scoops? Get creative.

 

[saderboy80]

I asked Google and he said 1Tbs. If you're a supplement user, I'm sure you have some scoops lying around - half a protein scoop? 3 Creatine Mono scoops? Get creative.

I believe I get enough Vit C between my multivitamin and the extra B-Vitamins I take contain like 300mg Vit C. So Im already getting close to 500mg/day.

I read the article you posted on the thread. Quite amazing results even though the results were ex vitro! Jello is primarily bovine collagen right? I might have to do a trial run!! Cheap as hell, what can it hurt? Jello I believe also has a high sugar content so dosage wise I would probably add it to my pre-workout for an extra glucose boost.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I believe I get enough Vit C between my multivitamin and the extra B-Vitamins I take contain like 300mg Vit C. So Im already getting close to 500mg/day.

I read the article you posted on the thread. Quite amazing results even though the results were ex vitro! Jello is primarily bovine collagen right? I might have to do a trial run!! Cheap as hell, what can it hurt? Jello I believe also has a high sugar content so dosage wise I would probably add it to my pre-workout for an extra glucose boost.

Study dosed the Vitamin C with the Gelatin, 1h Pre - you can do what you want, but I'd stick to what was done in the study. It was also done in vitro as well, that's what the blood draw was for - looking for bio-markers of increased synthesis.

I found Knox Gelatin Packets, 40kcal for 16g, at my local WalMart store - I know Knox is available online as well. Stuff isn't as cheap as I'd like, but I've had tendon problems, so "an ounce of prevention" and all that...

 

[dsade]

I asked Google and he said 1Tbs. If you're a supplement user, I'm sure you have some scoops lying around - half a protein scoop? 3 Creatine Mono scoops? Get creative.

That gelatin -Vitamin C study was surprisingly interesting.

 

[dsade]

Study dosed the Vitamin C with the Gelatin, 1h Pre - you can do what you want, but I'd stick to what was done in the study. It was also done in vitro as well, that's what the blood draw was for - looking for bio-markers of increased synthesis.

I found Knox Gelatin Packets, 40kcal for 16g, at my local WalMart store - I know Knox is available online as well. Stuff isn't as cheap as I'd like, but I've had tendon problems, so "an ounce of prevention" and all that...

Bulk gelatin is ungodly cheap compared to the Knox stuff.

When I was pricing out the Leptin-controlled jello I got drum prices that were entirely reasonable.

 

[Jiigzz]

Study dosed the Vitamin C with the Gelatin, 1h Pre - you can do what you want, but I'd stick to what was done in the study. It was also done in vitro as well, that's what the blood draw was for - looking for bio-markers of increased synthesis.

I found Knox Gelatin Packets, 40kcal for 16g, at my local WalMart store - I know Knox is available online as well. Stuff isn't as cheap as I'd like, but I've had tendon problems, so "an ounce of prevention" and all that...

But still not in vivo

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Bulk gelatin is ungodly cheap compared to the Knox stuff.

When I was pricing out the Leptin-controlled jello I got drum prices that were entirely reasonable.

Just found some from Azure that got it down to ~$7/lb -

BP114 293 5 lb $36.30 377
$7.26 per pound
Shipping Weight: 5lb.
On Purchase: 400 expected to arrive on 2/17/17 3:00 PM

You're right, Knox is INSANE! PM me if you know where to get Argentinian Beef Collagen for cheep please

 

[The_Old_Guy]

But still not in vivo

I'll defer to your expertise, but unless you are talking about a way to measure collagen synthesis occurring at the ligament/joint/tendon inside a human - I thought an adequate amount of something getting past the liver and making it into the blood qualified as in vivo ?

Results: Supplementation with increasing amounts of gelatin increased circulating glycine, proline, hydroxyproline, and hydroxylysine, peaking 1 h after the supplement was given. (In Vivo) Engineered ligaments treated for 6 d with serum from samples collected before or 1 h after subjects consumed a placebo or 5 or 15 g gelatin showed increased collagen content and improved mechanics. (Ex Vivo) Subjects who took 15 g gelatin 1 h before exercise showed double the amino-terminal propeptide of collagen I in their blood, indicating increased collagen synthesis. (In Vivo)

No? If not, thanks for clarifying it :thumbsup:

 

[Jiigzz]

I'll defer to your expertise, but unless you are talking about a way to measure collagen synthesis occurring at the ligament/joint/tendon inside a human - I thought an adequate amount of something getting past the liver and making it into the blood qualified as in vivo ?



No? If not, thanks for clarifying it

Reread the post I quoted. Was just being smart

 

[thebigt]

My Orthopedic Surgeon "prescribed" more like highly recommended 800mg ibuprofen x3/day. Personally, I have never experienced the negative side effects. I've had plenty of blood work done to prove so.

I am also a Med Student w/ a B.S. In Human Physiology and an MS in Biomedical Science.
Hence my asking for less "Western Medicine" adjuncts that serve as either joint lubricating, tissue repair or an anti-inflammatory.

ask your doc about voltaren gel....that along with kratom on pt days has done wonders for my knee-no cartilage!! you might also add SNS JOINT SUPPORT-it worked as well as any other otc ever has.