Best natural thermogenics you have tried

Aleksandar37

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What's your definition of natural? Seems to be one of those terms on here that varies greatly.
 
johnnyp

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I'm guessing by "natural" you mean not far removed/extracted from it's original form in which case habanero peppers are.
 
LeanEngineer

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I prefer using norcodrene and shift by pes when i'm cutting.
 
AntM1564

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Something I don't have to pct off of.
OxyMax XT would be worth looking into. No PCT is required. With Higenamine(Beta(2)adrenergic agonism), Alpha-Yohimbine(Alpha(2)Adrenergic antagonist), Amentoflavone(PDE Inhibitor), Forskolin (Increase cAMP) all working down the same pathway to increase fat loss, it works quite well. But of course diet and exercise are highly important!

From Mr. Cooper

Amentoflavone is a mixed Phosphodiesterase (PDE) inhibitor [2-7]. Many of you are familiar with forskolin, which derives its utility in fat loss from its ability to increase cAMP levels in appropriate tissues, specifically adipose (fat) tissue. And many of you are familiar with, say, ephedrine, which acts as a b2 agonist to ultimately increase levels of intracellular cAMP. The final common pathway with both forskolin and ephedrine is the increase in cAMP in fat cells, which results in the subsequent activity of various kinases and transcription factors in inducing cascades that promote lipolysis, or the breakdown of stored fat. As mentioned above, amentoflavone inhibits PDE, and PDE is responsible for the breakdown of cAMP. So by blocking PDE with amentoflavone, we increase cAMP and thus increase fat loss as well. Here’s a simplified model:

5o820l.jpg


A “(-)” denotes the inhibition of an enzyme/pathway, while a “(+)” denotes stimulation of an enzyme or pathway. As you can see, amentoflavone acts downstream of both ephedrine and forskolin to block the PDE enzyme. In simple terms, you get a “double negative” at cAMP levels, resulting in a positive (net) increase. This results in stimulation of the next step: “fat loss.”

Interestingly enough, each compound listed above (ephedrine, yohimbine, forskolin, amentoflavone) acts on a different step of the fat loss pathway, and in theory, these could all be combined for a synergistic effect.
Also, the mood enhancing effect and euphoric feeling from OxyMax XT is amazing. This is accomplished from a combination of ingredients including Eria Janresis Extract, B-Phenylethylamine, Amentoflavone and Hordenine. There is a very noticeable improvement in mood and well-being as well as long lasting clean energy.

I would look for any fat burner that has at contains 50-75 mg of forskolin per serving. OxyMax XT has 50 mg per serving. I recommend forskolin when wanting to loss fat because of its ability to increase cAMP levels.

Forskolin will increase cAMP levels and help with increasing fat loss while also increasing lean mass. Now, diet needs to be on point, but it is a great ingredient. Here are some good reads on the ingredient.

Forskolin increases metabolism, burns fat, breaks down triglycerides, and increases lean-body mass
The thyroid stimulating strength of forskolin has been compared to TSH (thyrotropin). Thyroid hormone levels are important for leanness.
Forskolin has increased total testosterone by 16% in male subjects during a 12-week trial.
https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/burn-fat-pile-on-muscle-with-forskolin

Fat Mass:  The colforsin group lost 4.52 kilograms (9,94 pounds) of fat, plus or minus 5.74 kilograms, while the placebo group lost only 0.51 kilograms (1.12 pounds), plus or minus 1.91 kilograms.
Lean Body Mass:  The colforsin group gained 3.71 kilograms of lean body mass (8.162 pounds), plus or minus 4.07 kilograms, while the placebo group gained 1.57 kilograms (3.45 pounds), plus or minus 2.56 kilograms.
Testosterone:  The Testosterone of the colforsin group rose 33.7 percent, while it decreased 18.35 percent in the placebo group.
https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/dont-kill-the-messenger

The total body weight of a mixed group of men and women in a 12-week study decreased from 74.7 kilograms to 73.5 kilograms while experiencing increases in lean body mass (without weight training).
https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/tip-the-t-boosting-capsule-you-need-to-take

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16129715

https://legionathletics.com/forskolin/

5 Reasons to Use Forskolin -
 
booneman77

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I assume when you say "thermogenic", youre looking for any fat loss product, not just ones that work through thermogenesis...

Stim: OG alphamine, yohimbine 2.5, ign1te

Non-Stim: TTA-500, Shift, reduce xt, lean edge, epitome, brite
 
johnnyp

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OxyMax XT would be worth looking into. No PCT is required. With Higenamine(Beta(2)adrenergic agonism), Alpha-Yohimbine(Alpha(2)Adrenergic antagonist), Amentoflavone(PDE Inhibitor), Forskolin (Increase cAMP) all working down the same pathway to increase fat loss, it works quite well. But of course diet and exercise are highly important!

From Mr. Cooper



Also, the mood enhancing effect and euphoric feeling from OxyMax XT is amazing. This is accomplished from a combination of ingredients including Eria Janresis Extract, B-Phenylethylamine, Amentoflavone and Hordenine. There is a very noticeable improvement in mood and well-being as well as long lasting clean energy.
After all the discussion about how amentoflavone has poor bioavailability why even mention it?
 
john.patterson

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Something I don't have to pct off of.
I wouldn't classify it as natural, but clen and ephedrine are certainly the most potent I've tried. While clen can be very effective, the side effects (jitters, cramps, loss of sleep, etc.) can be very annoying.

If you're looking to lose fat, I would first make sure your diet and training are in check. Supplements can help, but you won't lose weight if you're not eating in a calorie deficit. I would second the recommendation for Oxymax XT as a solid thermogenic product. Unlike clen and ephedrine, Oxymax XT provides a very clean energy, which allows you to focus and have a clear state of mind. Forskolin is also one of my favorite ingredients for cutting and recomp, so having that added in there is a great benefit too.
 
Adizzle1

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After all the discussion about how amentoflavone has poor bioavailability why even mention it?
That is highly debatable

"First, there's data showing the amentoflavone solo has poor bioavailability and membrane permeability, but that it is significantly enhanced when ingested as part of a plant extract. This could be due to many things, like other substrates in the plant competing for PgP or efflux pumps. Secondly, there is data showing that amentoflavone's chief metabolite, the conjugated form, has bioactivity of its own. Finally, the compound has a high Vd and thus can progressively saturate tissues due to high tissue retention (analagous to curcumin -> low BV, high tissue distribution), so continuous use should yield improved results." - Mr.Cooper
 
johnnyp

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That is highly debatable

"First, there's data showing the amentoflavone solo has poor bioavailability and membrane permeability, but that it is significantly enhanced when ingested as part of a plant extract. This could be due to many things, like other substrates in the plant competing for PgP or efflux pumps. Secondly, there is data showing that amentoflavone's chief metabolite, the conjugated form, has bioactivity of its own. Finally, the compound has a high Vd and thus can progressively saturate tissues due to high tissue retention (analagous to curcumin -> low BV, high tissue distribution), so continuous use should yield improved results." - Mr.Cooper
Is that based on oral ingestion? It's ability to not be destroyed in the gut was an issue.
 
Adizzle1

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Yes that's oral and the research was done on pure amentoflavone which is much different then a low percentage extract that contains other constituents from the plant that may help. Examples of this can be seen in stacking epicatechin with egcg, or RCE extract being superior to pure ecdy.
 
johnnyp

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Yes that's oral and the research was done on pure amentoflavone which is much different then a low percentage extract that contains other constituents from the plant that may help. Examples of this can be seen in stacking epicatechin with egcg, or RCE extract being superior to pure ecdy.
I'm wasn't aware that such research existed, I thought the only information was based off cell cultures.
 
warbird01

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EC by far.
 

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