Best nattys supps gains vs sarms gains ?

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  1. Best nattys supps gains vs sarms gains ?


    Hi guys, Hope everyone is doing well .
    What do you think of the best natty supps avaliable today (ABE , ARA ..) Comparing to a bulking sarm (like Lgd) or a prhormone in term of gains ? Can you achieve similar gains with well rounded natty supplementantion in addition to on point diet and training.
    I was looking to go for an LGD+mk677 cycle 8 weeks but if the gains would be achieved naturally in same length or maybe 1 more length later , then there is no need to touch em. If So can you suggest the best natty stack for lean bulk that will make not regretting the wasted money

    I'm 21 , 187lbs , 15% bf if you are wordering.


  2. Nothing natural will compare with a PH or SARM.

    At 21, wait a little more until you run hormones.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by AntM1564 View Post
    Nothing natural will compare with a PH or SARM.

    At 21, wait a little more until you run hormones.
    How much time should I wait , can I run sarms this year then cut it off? I would really like to go above the plateau . My goal is not something too irrealistic . 16lbs of lbm before 2018 , so that may equal maybe 2 cycles , Then continue naturally if possible .

  4. Nope, too young for any prohormones or SARMs. You should be more than happy running Follidrone 2.0 or ORIG1N though...

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    How much time should I wait , can I run sarms this year then cut it off? I would really like to go above the plateau . My goal is not something too irrealistic . 16lbs of lbm before 2018 , so that may equal maybe 2 cycles , Then continue naturally if possible .
    If the goal is to just get big, then roll right into a solid natty cycle. If the goal is to be big and cut, then I would recommend trying to recomp to get the bf down a little more before a bulk. I only say this bc once you add a lot of fat on high bf%, its challenging to shed it.

    Natty sups are not going to compare to SARMS or PH will, but if you have not tried them, you may be pleasantly surprised. Here are some to stack.

    FD2, Anafuse, ARA, or ABA... you could stack any of those with AlphaMaxXT (as long as you can handle the f95 overlap with some of them). Or stack them with a thermo to keep the fat in check while bulking.
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  6. I have actually tried some of them like ARA and alphamax xt , That was Ok nothing surprising , yeah the pumps and DOMS are too huge but I didin't really get what I wanted in terms of strength and size to the point I lost motivation before ending both (20caps of ARA left) . I took some time off.
    About FD2 and anafuse , most comments I saw is not worth it just placebo effect , not sure .
    The problem with natty supps is they are more expensive combining them than just a cycle of lgd for exmaple and not sure of the the efficacy .
    Surely I will have to lose fat to 11% before bulking ( I add weight pretty easily) or more muscle lost later.
    If I can expect an increase of 8-10lbs of LBM yes LBM not water from a natty stack over the 12 coming weeks then I'm sold. If so What the stack is going to be with dosing protocol. If not I won't be sure about hormones.
    Is MK677 considered too as a harmful for my age?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    The problem with natty supps is they are more expensive combining them than just a cycle of lgd for exmaple and not sure of the the efficacy .
    Keep in mind that price-wise, it's not just the LGD. You might want a cycle support and a test base for lethargy, because it will be suppressive. And then you'll also need a PCT that includes a SERM. But more importantly, you shouldn't be choosing whether or not to turn in your natty card over price. One option being cheaper than the other isn't what should be making up your decision...lots of research on compounds (both natural and not), weighing pros and cons, doing what's going to benefit you most over the long run...THAT'S what should drive your decision.
    OLYMPUS LABS
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  8. I know people here love ARA but it is not shocking that you were not impressed. Alphamax XT is nice but it is more of a test booster than a natural anabolic so that was probably not the best choice for you either. I would not buy Anafuse because it has no delivery system so the Laxo component is not even bioavailable. FD2, ORIG1N, and presumably MassMax XT are your best bet at the moment. Sale is still on to get FD2 or ORIG1N at Nutriverse for 20% off and I believe MassMax XT is still available at a reduced intro price through Performax? MK-677 would probably be fine for you but it is not a mass builder either. Would help recovery and maybe make you look a bit bigger just due to the bloat. It is also tricky to get used to and dose correctly without feeling like sh1t. I think you would enjoy my other 3 recommendations much more.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    I have actually tried some of them like ARA and alphamax xt , That was Ok nothing surprising , yeah the pumps and DOMS are too huge but I didin't really get what I wanted in terms of strength and size to the point I lost motivation before ending both (20caps of ARA left) . I took some time off.
    About FD2 and anafuse , most comments I saw is not worth it just placebo effect , not sure .
    The problem with natty supps is they are more expensive combining them than just a cycle of lgd for exmaple and not sure of the the efficacy .
    Surely I will have to lose fat to 11% before bulking ( I add weight pretty easily) or more muscle lost later.
    If I can expect an increase of 8-10lbs of LBM yes LBM not water from a natty stack over the 12 coming weeks then I'm sold. If so What the stack is going to be with dosing protocol. If not I won't be sure about hormones.
    Is MK677 considered too as a harmful for my age?
    Sounds like you have a motivation problem, which makes it more likely that your diet isn't in check. Remember they're called "supplements" for a reason. You'd be surprised with the power of food brother
    SERIOUS NUTRITION SOLUTIONS REPRESENTATIVE

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    Surely I will have to lose fat to 11% before bulking ( I add weight pretty easily) or more muscle lost later.
    If I can expect an increase of 8-10lbs of LBM yes LBM not water from a natty stack over the 12 coming weeks then I'm sold. If so What the stack is going to be with dosing protocol. If not I won't be sure about hormones.
    I would choose one goal and stick with it. If you feel that your body fat is too high to bulk, then you might want to consider doing a cut to get your body fat to a desired level, and then slowly increase calories and put on some size.

    To be perfectly honest, adding 8-10lbs of lean mass in 12 weeks naturally is an unrealistic goal, even if you were to stack the best of the best natural products. Building muscle takes time, and as a natural lifter your training and diet are the biggest components to your success. I understand the desire to get big quick and put on fast size, we've all been there and wanted results like that. But the reality is that you can't have overnight success in bodybuilding and physique goals.

    I would recommend keeping it simple for now and use you basic supplements (creatine, betaine, preworkout, fish oil, and whey), and really dial in your training and diet. At 21 you shouldn't be looking into SARMs, and I think that you need to get everything else in line before you start adding in natural anabolic products. I'm not sure what your current staple supplements are, but I would suggest checking out Powermax XT. It will provide you with a full serving of creatine and betaine, as well as glycerol and taurine for hydration and pumps. I would keep it simple for now, and learn to be patient with your goals. If it were easy, everyone would be huge and shredded.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by AntM1564 View Post
    Nothing natural will compare with a PH or SARM.

    At 21, wait a little more until you run hormones.
    I agree completely with this. It's hard to compare natural vs sarm gains because of course sarm gains are going to better because they are stronger that natural products. At 21 your natural hormone levels will be at their best so i'd agree and wait alittle longer before experimenting with ph's and sarms.
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  12. I always track that my diet and make sure that's right for the goal , I add weight pretty easy but mostly water and fat so I should always be aware of not going 400kcals above maintenance . What makes me lose motivation is stagnation at the same level after long time and feeling that the supplements that should have worked didn't as expected and food can do it by itself.
    I will go for a slight cut to reduce body fat then bulk ,
    What can I expect with Massmax xt , FD2, ORIG1N and powermax xt ?
    What can be the potetional side effects by sarms for my age? Considering I won't run it more than 2 times for many years.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    I always track that my diet and make sure that's right for the goal , I add weight pretty easy but mostly water and fat so I should always be aware of not going 400kcals above maintenance . What makes me lose motivation is stagnation at the same level after long time and feeling that the supplements that should have worked didn't as expected and food can do it by itself.
    I will go for a slight cut to reduce body fat then bulk ,
    What can I expect with Massmax xt , FD2, ORIG1N and powermax xt ?
    What can be the potetional side effects by sarms for my age? Considering I won't run it more than 2 times for many years.
    For real, you may not get what you are expecting from SARMs. I ran LGD once (and will not do it again), which is the strongest bulking SARM out there. Sure I got thicker, and yea, I put on weight, but I also put on fat. At the end of the day I suppressed my HPTA, spent a good amount of $$, and think I could have obtained the same amount if I bulked like that for about an extra month beyond the cycle. Also, keep in mind, SARMs have not gone through all the human trials that PH have. Not saying one is better then the other, but no one knows what in the world SARMs will do to you in the long run. Dial in that diet like a crazy man, put your head down and don't have cheat meals. I guarantee your before and after pics will look sick in 2-3 months time.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    I will go for a slight cut to reduce body fat then bulk ,
    I always track that my diet and make sure that's right for the goal , I add weight pretty easy but mostly water and fat so I should always be aware of not going 400kcals above maintenance . What makes me lose motivation is stagnation at the same level after long time and feeling that the supplements that should have worked didn't as expected and food can do it by itself.
    I will go for a slight cut to reduce body fat then bulk ,
    What can I expect with Massmax xt , FD2, ORIG1N and powermax xt ?
    What can be the potetional side effects by sarms for my age? Considering I won't run it more than 2 times for many years.
    Sounds like a good plan. If you add weight easily, make sure your macros are in check and make sure you aren't pushing too far into a surplus when you begin your bulk.

    As far as stacking those four products goes, I think it would be a bit overkill. Both MassMax XT and FD2 contain (-)-epi, and using Or1gin and MassMax XT together would give you a wicked appetite. Both products can increase hunger, so stacking them might be excessive if you're already struggling to keep calorie intake in check.

    I think Powermax XT would be a good choice regardless of whether you're bulking or cutting. Its a daily ergogenic product that has benefits for either goal, so that can remain as a constant in your cutting and bulking. Aside from that, I would choose one, two at the most, additional products to add in when you begin bulking. The three you've mentioned (FD2, Massmax XT, and Or1gin) are all great products. I would start out with one and eat in a small surplus and see how things go. These products aren't anything miraculous, but if your diet and training are on point they will help you with strength and size
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  15. Forget SARMs. At your age, you are naturally running an extreme PH inside your body.
    You don't need anything to boost a Ferrari. That simply doesn't make sense, specially considering it may bring side effects.

    A natty supp, maybe.
    Go for OL Tr1umph, which has PA, creatine and other goodies. Or PowerMax XT.
    If I were you, that would be enough.
    If you wanna get fancy, yeah, add only one of the already suggested Orig1n, FD2, MassMaxXT.

  16. Thanks for help ,
    macwad if there a huge PH running inside my body why I'm struggling to break the plateau for much time , 1-2lbs LBM per year for the last 2 years.

    To recap I should go Tr1umph/Powermax XT, FD2 and Massmax XT If I can't expect a noticeable change in 8 weeks.(expecting 4lbs LBM not 1lbs or 0,5)
    Directly to a PH cycle if SARMS doesn't give what promised.
    Because As I mentioned before if there is no much long term damage from 1 and only cycle(10-12lbs LBM gain) for many many years. I would go for it , If there is fine. Is there any?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    Directly to a PH cycle if SARMS doesn't give what promised.
    Because As I mentioned before if there is no much long term damage from 1 and only cycle(10-12lbs LBM gain) for many many years. I would go for it , If there is fine. Is there any?
    A single PH cycle will not yield 10-12lbs of "lean" mass. You might gain 10-12 pounds during a cycle, but PH's can be risky. And the chances of losing the weight after your cycle is high. You also risk interfering with natural hormone production, which can lead to gyno (man boobs) and other libido and testosterone issues. There are many who have done successful PH cycles, but there are also a lot of horror stories that you don't hear about as often.

    And also, I hate to be rude, but what is the big rush? Why are you so anxious to put on muscle so quickly? You need to understand that there is no overnight success in building muscle, and there are no shortcuts. Put in the work. Be consistent. And the results will come.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    Thanks for help ,
    macwad if there a huge PH running inside my body why I'm struggling to break the plateau for much time , 1-2lbs LBM per year for the last 2 years.

    To recap I should go Tr1umph/Powermax XT, FD2 and Massmax XT If I can't expect a noticeable change in 8 weeks.(expecting 4lbs LBM not 1lbs or 0,5)
    Directly to a PH cycle if SARMS doesn't give what promised.
    Because As I mentioned before if there is no much long term damage from 1 and only cycle(10-12lbs LBM gain) for many many years. I would go for it , If there is fine. Is there any?
    There are a thousand possible reasons why you're struggling to get past a plateau. You've told us nothing about your training and training history, diet, etc. We don't even know how tall you are...you could be 5'4 187lbs or 6'7 187lbs, and those two examples are built very differently. How do you know how much lean mass you've gained and what body fat you're at anyway? DEXA? Hydrostatic weighing? If it's a BIA device, I wouldn't trust that.

    No one can tell you whether or not you'll experience negative side effects, or whether or not they'll be something that goes away as soon as you go off. Obviously some compounds carry higher risks than others, and there are steps you can take to lower the risk of sides, but no one can say for sure whether or not you'll encounter problems or whether or not those problems will be easily reversible. If you're not willing to accept the possibility of sides, you have no business running a cycle.

    As far as natty supps go, Tr1umph is a great suggestion. It's a natural anabolic and ergogenic supplement that has ingredients that help with power output, lean body mass accrual, recovery, endurance and fatigue mitigation, etc. Furthermore, it is not going to give you hormonal sides, you don't need any cycle support or PCT, and you can stay on it year round if you'd like. If you have any questions about any of the ingredients in there, please let me know and I'll do my best to assist.
    And Or1gin was also brought up...that's another natural anabolic that contains ingredients that have effects on appetite stimulation, digestion, and muscle anabolism. More food + anabolic state may be what you need to get past your current plateau (well, part of what you need...there is still a high probability of a training or recovery factor).
    OLYMPUS LABS
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  19. My training and Diet is on point , I did many 5x5 (didn't like it much ) , PHAT (not so good results) What worked for me is INTENSE PPL 2x/week with 3x5 strength sets or INTENSE bro split with strength 3x5 sets working every part once/6days.
    What I mean with plateau 2 things: in bulk adding fat only no noticeable muscle with even small surplus
    In cutting : reaching fat loss plateau about 13-12% BF then losing fat slooowly andt just losing muscle and strength after the glycogen stores are depleted fully so more flat look .
    I go with mirror,weight and measurements to evaluate the progress and bodyfat.
    I'm 5ft11 187lbs about 15%BF
    I'm not in a rush to get big , just lost motivation of plateauing for a long long time , I want to get that higher level and then plateau no problem and be able to focus on other sports like mma/soccer.. I should get big this year no excuses Realistically big .

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    Thanks for help ,
    macwad if there a huge PH running inside my body why I'm struggling to break the plateau for much time , 1-2lbs LBM per year for the last 2 years.

    To recap I should go Tr1umph/Powermax XT, FD2 and Massmax XT If I can't expect a noticeable change in 8 weeks.(expecting 4lbs LBM not 1lbs or 0,5)
    Directly to a PH cycle if SARMS doesn't give what promised.
    Because As I mentioned before if there is no much long term damage from 1 and only cycle(10-12lbs LBM gain) for many many years. I would go for it , If there is fine. Is there any?
    How is your diet and training?
    Are you taking enough protein? 30g at every 3h?
    Are you doing too much LISS cardio? Try HIIT instead.
    How many workouts/week? At least 5 (maybe 4)?
    Do you emphasize the compounds lifts?
    Do you have at least 7h of sleep?
    Have you tried supersets, drop sets?
    What training program are you following?
    Is it periodized?
    Try PHAT, by Layne Norton. Or PH3.

    One more stuff to try is HMB. In bulk, it's quite cheap. It is highly anti-catabolic, will make you recover much faster, than you can train harder and more often.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    My training and Diet is on point , I did many 5x5 (didn't like it much ) , PHAT (not so good results) What worked for me is INTENSE PPL 2x/week with 3x5 strength sets or INTENSE bro split with strength 3x5 sets working every part once/6days.
    What I mean with plateau 2 things: in bulk adding fat only no noticeable muscle with even small surplus
    In cutting : reaching fat loss plateau about 13-12% BF then losing fat slooowly andt just losing muscle and strength after the glycogen stores are depleted fully so more flat look .
    I go with mirror,weight and measurements to evaluate the progress and bodyfat.
    I'm 5ft11 187lbs about 15%BF
    I'm not in a rush to get big , just lost motivation of plateauing for a long long time , I want to get that higher level and then plateau no problem and be able to focus on other sports like mma/soccer.. I should get big this year no excuses Realistically big .
    This still tells me nothing about your progression and periodization. Is it linear? Block? Undulating? Conjugate? That's more important than whether it's a PPL or bro split or whatever.

    Muscle gain during a bulk often isn't noticeable to you. It happens slowly. When I look at pictures from a few months ago, I look the same, at least to my eye. Look at pictures from a year and a half ago, and there's a marked difference. Patience is key here, and that goes for both natural and enhanced athletes. And you should be losing fat slowly during a bulk. There will most likely be some muscle and strength loss, but if you're losing it that early, then it's either a problem with your diet or again, a problem with your training.

    If you run something, then come off and focus on MMA and soccer, you will almost certainly lose whatever you gained while on.
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  22. How is your diet and training? I track my Diet
    Are you taking enough protein? 30g at every 3h? I was doing that but I get bloated , So i didived to 180g/day 3 times and post workout shake
    Are you doing too much LISS cardio? Try HIIT instead. HIIT always I like Intensified rather
    How many workouts/week? At least 5 (maybe 4)? 5 to 6
    Do you emphasize the compounds lifts? Yes dumbells and barbells way better
    Do you have at least 7h of sleep? 7-8
    Have you tried supersets, drop sets? Yes waaay better pumps and intesity
    What training program are you following? Now , I stopped for a little to bring my motivation up then go again PPL 2x/week or Bro split with 3x5 strengths sets before for both
    Is it periodized? I think

  23. Quote Originally Posted by VO2Maxima View Post
    This still tells me nothing about your progression and periodization. Is it linear? Block? Undulating? Conjugate? That's more important than whether it's a PPL or bro split or whatever.

    Muscle gain during a bulk often isn't noticeable to you. It happens slowly. When I look at pictures from a few months ago, I look the same, at least to my eye. Look at pictures from a year and a half ago, and there's a marked difference. Patience is key here, and that goes for both natural and enhanced athletes. And you should be losing fat slowly during a bulk. There will most likely be some muscle and strength loss, but if you're losing it that early, then it's either a problem with your diet or again, a problem with your training.

    If you run something, then come off and focus on MMA and soccer, you will almost certainly lose whatever you gained while on.
    It's linear I add 5lbs whenever I feel I can so 2-3 weeks.
    I meant with sports that I will still progress on weightlifting I will do something like 4 times/week to focus more on others

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Rishy View Post
    It's linear I add 5lbs whenever I feel I can so 2-3 weeks.
    There's issue #1. Get on a better training plan that defines some sort of progression and periodization. If what you were doing was working for you, that would be one thing, but it's clearly not. Texas Method, Cube, 5/3/1, Conjugate/Westside, Juggernaut, Candito, etc. There are a ton of options, most of which will likely be better than what you're doing now if your periodization just consists of adding weight "whenever you feel you can."
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  25. I took a look before , strength programs like 5x5 and 5/3/1 I feel I don't work out with a high intensity where I can burn more calories and feel like I'm drained.
    I get quite easily fat with working out 3days per week without a good intensity nor for the gains. Can be wrong
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