Why does anyone buy PUMP products?

AdelV

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I've been thinking about this for a while(I know others have), and most the ingredient's in a number of products are dirt cheap in bulk?(Only researched this recently)

Let me break down some prices.

L-CITRULLINE 1KG $50 AUD at 4g = 250 serves
PURE AGMATINE 200g - $42AUD = 200 serves
L-ARGININE NITRATE 250G - $25AUD = 125 serves
PURE L-TAURINE POWDER 1KG = $28AUD 300+ serves
Glycerol Monostearate 500g $30 = 250 serves +

Just listed some basic solid compounds, and as you can see their dirt cheap.

Let's double the Nitrate so it roughly equals 200 serves.
$200 AUD ALL UP.

That's over 2 years worth of works out.

When I look at most pump products, I am seeing $25USD-MIN on AVG, $35AUD.

Just in 12 months, it will cost you more by $100+ alone.

Fair enough if products contain expensive and new fancy ingredients(lol), however most of them contain these solid compounds and these are proven.

After wasting so much cash on these type of products, it just makes sense to create my own.

What else could I add? BA? COP? These are cheap down here as-well.

Don't get me wrong, some companies have amazing sales and their products contain a lot more than these basics & may be worth the coin. Just coming from myself, where I find myself spending too much on supplements... I am looking for buck!
 
Sean8616

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Yes, I continue to stress this to many.

Unfortunately, the majority of people I inform, continue throwing away their hard earned $ because they decide to NOT snap out of the PR slave bait.


EDIT TO ADD:

L-Norvaline can be found in bulk and at bulk prices. You can add that to your N.O. cabinet.
 
LeanEngineer

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I agree with you. When it comes to pump products it's cheaper to just go buy bulk powders of the ingredients you like. I do this with citrulline and agmatine and add it to my pre workout if it doesn't have enough in it. Some people just want to pay the extra and buy a pump product so they don't have to pick out the ingredients I guess.
 
Sean8616

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@LeanEngineer

I decided to use a 2g Agmatine stand alone dose as my pwo earlier and my god did I get a crazy pump.

Was my first time isolating Agmatine w/out the Cit/Mal and loved it.
 

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I agree with the above posters. Personally, I have never used a pre workout. I've been training for 38 years.
 
Woody

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Convenience is one. It's a pain in the ass to add 8g X + 2g Y + 1G Z etc.

Flavor is another. Extra goodies is a third.
 
cubsfan815

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Convenience for me too. Less time spent measuring, less tubs around house, etc. Products like VasoMax and High Volume have it all figured out for me.
 
Ape McGrapes

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Did it for a long while. The saved $$$ wasn't worth the time and energy.

High Volume + Triumph isn't too much more expensive, and covers just about everything I was mixing. Sits in my stomach better as well.

Total cost plays a part too. Easier for someone to afford/justify $30 dollars instead of $200 at one time, even if it costs them more in the long run.
 
WAF

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Convenience is one. It's a pain in the ass to add 8g X + 2g Y + 1G Z etc.

Flavor is another. Extra goodies is a third.
What he said i already have a ton of pills to take and other powders so it's alot more convenient. Good chance some of the bulk powders might not be of good quality so searching online will be another time consumer. My stash of supps is already out of hand this would put it over the top. Oh and the issues making it taste good all homebrew pwo i've tried tasted like ****... nah ill spend a few more bucks it's worth it in IMO.
 
rascal14

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Not everyone is worried about a ~$100 difference over two years either.
 

kisaj

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Depends honestly. I buy cutrulline bulk because I like the taste and just mix it in to drinks. Agmatine tastes like ****, but you need such a small amount that I end up buying that in bulk too. Potassium nitrate is so inexpensive that it just makes sense to buy the tabs pre-filled.
 
Young Gotti

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like everyone said was convenience....I've bought bulk and continue to do so, but I have a shelf in my kitchen, It already has enough powders and what not cluttering it that I don't want to play chemist every night to put my next days supplements together...so if I can just go with max out to give me energy and pumps or hemavol max 2 for pumps and be done with it, I'm fine
 
djbombsquad

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Convenience for me too. Less time spent measuring, less tubs around house, etc. Products like VasoMax and High Volume have it all figured out for me.
Amen!
 

cstallion

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I agree with the above posters. Personally, I have never used a pre workout. I've been training for 38 years.
^^^ This. Everybody seems think you HAVE to use a preworkout if you lift. All the kids at the gym are constantly talking about the "pre" they just bought at GNC or whatever. Funny thing is, I hardly ever hear any of them talk about their nutrition protocols, which probably explains why they all look like ****.

On a side note, a bagful of Gummie Bears seems to be a very effective "pump" product.
 
WAF

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^^^ This. Everybody seems think you HAVE to use a preworkout if you lift. All the kids at the gym are constantly talking about the "pre" they just bought at GNC or whatever. Funny thing is, I hardly ever hear any of them talk about their nutrition protocols, which probably explains why they all look like ****.

On a side note, a bagful of Gummie Bears seems to be a very effective "pump" product.
PWO isn't a must but for some it has it's benefits. Say for example like me if you work 14hr days construction....doubt youll be making it to the gym everyday without a lil help. There's ingredients that will aid in your workout and recovery in pwo. It's not just kids talking about pwo either, i see more "kids" doing things properly than the older weekend warriors ego lifters that never a change to their physique slamming pwo in the locker room . Not saying there isn't numpty's on both sides cause there is. But there's always 2 sides to a coin. In the end if someone wants to take a product pwo or whatever, if that said product get's them in to the gym and train its worth it. For alot of people the gym is a forced action to do, until you crave the pump.
 
AntM1564

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Like everyone has mentioned, convenience.

I like to add nootropics to my VasoMax. It doesn't take too much extra time, but measuring out Alpha GPC, NALT or whatever else I want to add is tedious. I need to find a caffeine free nootropic formula in a capsule, but have yet to do so.
 
djbombsquad

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I use 4-6 products in my morning shake depending on what im doing and it's nice when some of them are clumped together.
Pump product
Strength and energy
Nooteopics
Aminos
And certain vitamins, minerals and antioxidants
 
Sean8616

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9x out of 10 "convenience" equals lazy, haha.

I'm punchin your buttons everybody.

Most of these pre jugged pwo supplements contain one of the nastiest ingredients.... Sucralose!

Sucralose is chlorinated artificial sweetener in line with aspartame and saccharin, and with detrimental health effects to match. Diet soda, anyone?

Not for me, jus' sayin.
 
djbombsquad

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9x out of 10 "convenience" equals lazy, haha.

I'm punchin your buttons everybody.

Most of these pre jugged pwo supplements contain one of the nastiest ingredients.... Sucralose!

Sucralose is chlorinated artificial sweetener in line with aspartame and saccharin, and with detrimental health effects to match. Diet soda, anyone?

Not for me, jus' sayin.
I'm using a clean line with monk fruit .
 

cstallion

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PWO isn't a must but for some it has it's benefits. Say for example like me if you work 14hr days construction....doubt youll be making it to the gym everyday without a lil help. There's ingredients that will aid in your workout and recovery in pwo. It's not just kids talking about pwo either, i see more "kids" doing things properly than the older weekend warriors ego lifters that never a change to their physique slamming pwo in the locker room . Not saying there isn't numpty's on both sides cause there is. But there's always 2 sides to a coin. In the end if someone wants to take a product pwo or whatever, if that said product get's them in to the gym and train its worth it. For alot of people the gym is a forced action to do, until you crave the pump.
No doubt man, never said it DIDN'T have benefits. I can totally see guys like yourself needing that ole "pick me up" after a long ass 14-hour day. I'm not knocking guys like you. Hell, when I delivered furniture for a living, I couldn't NOT take my N.O. Xplode after moving heavy ass **** for 12 hours a day.

But my point stands still, a preworkout is not absolutely critical and necessary... UNLESS you need it. It's not like you can't get jacked without a pre. I still feel like people use them as a crutch to get through a workout. That starts a vicious cycle of dependence on something to get you a result. And that's never good. I actually have some I'll be taking here shortly, so please understand I know there's a time and a place for them. Hell, I have an 8-month old baby... I need the ole "pick me up!"
 

cstallion

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9x out of 10 "convenience" equals lazy, haha.

I'm punchin your buttons everybody.

Most of these pre jugged pwo supplements contain one of the nastiest ingredients.... Sucralose!

Sucralose is chlorinated artificial sweetener in line with aspartame and saccharin, and with detrimental health effects to match. Diet soda, anyone?

Not for me, jus' sayin.
^^^ This! There's a lot of bull**** in some pres workouts. Might as well be eating McDonald's for your postworkout meal lol!
 

cstallion

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I do this frequently.
You eating "clen" and "trenning" hard too? jk bro... some people have good genetics to be able to eat that **** and still look good. Me, I don't eat that ****. After watching my dad and a friend die of heart disease, **** that noise. I put good food in my body because I actually want to live to be 60.
 

cstallion

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Same. Diet adherence.. 80/20 rule.

Next we're going to be hearing "clean food" mantra.
Not from me. I'm not trying to play that game. I don't really care about the clean vs unclean debate. I just don't want to eat a bunch of **** that will kill me early. Heart disease is in my family, so it's just a personal choice. No judgement here.
 
WAF

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No doubt man, never said it DIDN'T have benefits. I can totally see guys like yourself needing that ole "pick me up" after a long ass 14-hour day. I'm not knocking guys like you. Hell, when I delivered furniture for a living, I couldn't NOT take my N.O. Xplode after moving heavy ass **** for 12 hours a day.

But my point stands still, a preworkout is not absolutely critical and necessary... UNLESS you need it. It's not like you can't get jacked without a pre. I still feel like people use them as a crutch to get through a workout. That starts a vicious cycle of dependence on something to get you a result. And that's never good. I actually have some I'll be taking here shortly, so please understand I know there's a time and a place for them. Hell, I have an 8-month old baby... I need the ole "pick me up!"
I agree with it not being critical, just pointing out some benefits to it. Yes theres alot of people that use it like you say but they don't usually go far, and fizzle out soon enough. They're usually too busy on their phone or talking at the gym to do anything productive anyways. Your absolutely correct on the dependant factor that happens. I feel your joy er pain i have a 2 week old now......time to double scoop lol.
 

cstallion

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I agree with it not being critical, just pointing out some benefits to it. Yes theres alot of people that use it like you say but they don't usually go far, and fizzle out soon enough. They're usually too busy on their phone or talking at the gym to do anything productive anyways. Your absolutely correct on the dependant factor that happens. I feel your joy er pain i have a 2 week old now......time to double scoop lol.
Oh snap! Yeah man, double scoop and make sure you get some good food/multivitamins in! It's seems like I felt good until about 2 months after she was born, a lot of my buddies say it was 2-3 months and then they kinda crashed too. It's like you finally switch on to autopilot. I didn't train at all then. So make sure you cover your nutritional bases in so you don't burn the candle at both ends.
 

Daycrawler

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OP, I'd drop the nitrates.

For purely pump purposes, L-Cit plus Glycerol will be more than enough.

I also don't buy pump products.
 
Volvo140G

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I used to make my own pwo, bought in bulk, kilograms and chit. Like Woody said it became a chore to add 8g of X and 2g of Y and 3.2 g of Z and then don't forget A, B, and C. There weren't scoops so had to be measured up on a digi and it just got old.

I'm not totall religious with pwo use and a tub lasts me over a month so it's $ and time well spent IMO. Props to those who make their own on the reg tho, it's cost effective for sure.
 
AdelV

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Not everyone is worried about a ~$100 difference over two years either.
It was more than $100 in 12 months, it's actually closer $400+ saving over 24 months.


I wasn't stating using all the ingredients, I actually believe 2-3 would do the job.

I've had amazing pumps using no supplements, highly dependent on diet, and rep range and sufficient hydration.

I'd rather spend my money on products which actually aid in fat loss, or build muscle.

Pumps are nice tho ?
 
LeanEngineer

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@LeanEngineer

I decided to use a 2g Agmatine stand alone dose as my pwo earlier and my god did I get a crazy pump.

Was my first time isolating Agmatine w/out the Cit/Mal and loved it.
Agmatine is probably one of my single favorite ingredients for pump haha I buy that stuff in bulk non stop:)
 
Sean8616

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Agmatine is probably one of my single favorite ingredients for pump haha I buy that stuff in bulk non stop:)
No joke, I wasn't impressed with it until I singled it out. I have been a Citrulline Malate buff for years and just recently grabbed a 100g sample pack of Agmatine.

After ten days of putting 1-2g of Agmatine into my 8g Citrulline Malate I did not notice anything different.

Finally, just last night, worked chest and shoulders w/out the cit/mal out of curiosity of just running 2g Ag and I was blown away!

I'm impressed with the many other 'health benefits' of Agmatine as well, so I'll definitely be stapling this as a go to pwo.

Happy lifting ; )
 

De__eB

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9x out of 10 "convenience" equals lazy, haha.

I'm punchin your buttons everybody.

Most of these pre jugged pwo supplements contain one of the nastiest ingredients.... Sucralose!

Sucralose is chlorinated artificial sweetener in line with aspartame and saccharin, and with detrimental health effects to match. Diet soda, anyone?

Not for me, jus' sayin.
Awesome, at least you're aware of the fact and you're most likely the type of person that doesn't bitch if you get sick.

Stay conscious, friend.
Please show me a reputable peer reviewed human study on sucralose demonstrating the 'fact' that sucralose is a "nasty ingredient" with detrimental health effects. (P.S. Rodent LD50 studies at 100x human consumption doses don't count)

There is limited human evidence to suggest that some portions of the population might get headaches when exposed to dietary doses of sucralose much higher than standard human consumption.

And that's pretty much it.

For someone calling people lazy to be spreading such uneducated bull**** is pretty amusing though.
 

Daycrawler

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Please show me a reputable peer reviewed human study on sucralose demonstrating the 'fact' that sucralose is a "nasty ingredient" with detrimental health effects. (P.S. Rodent LD50 studies at 100x human consumption doses don't count)

There is limited human evidence to suggest that some portions of the population might get headaches when exposed to dietary doses of sucralose much higher than standard human consumption.

And that's pretty much it.

For someone calling people lazy to be spreading such uneducated bull**** is pretty amusing though.
I mean the LD at 100x consumption doses do count because that's just further proof it takes an insane amount to be lethal
 

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I agree with you OP.
Why anyone wants to buy a shiny container of an under dosed product just for convenience is silly.
Also, I got sick of having to buy a product with dayglo coloring just to "match" the flavoring.
 
djbombsquad

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I agree with you OP.
Why anyone wants to buy a shiny container of an under dosed product just for convenience is silly.
Also, I got sick of having to buy a product with dayglo coloring just to "match" the flavoring.
Cost, currently I am using ingredients individually and ends up being like 2.50 a serving at the low and some times up to 4 if every thing is clinically dosed.
 
Jiigzz

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Please show me a reputable peer reviewed human study on sucralose demonstrating the 'fact' that sucralose is a "nasty ingredient" with detrimental health effects. (P.S. Rodent LD50 studies at 100x human consumption doses don't count)

There is limited human evidence to suggest that some portions of the population might get headaches when exposed to dietary doses of sucralose much higher than standard human consumption.

And that's pretty much it.

For someone calling people lazy to be spreading such uneducated bull**** is pretty amusing though.
It's not natural. Anything not natural, is unnatural.
 
Ape McGrapes

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I agree with you OP.
Why anyone wants to buy a shiny container of an under dosed product just for convenience is silly.
Also, I got sick of having to buy a product with dayglo coloring just to "match" the flavoring.
Try and tell me that PES High Volume is underdosed, and it comes out to about $1.35 a serving. Always on sale at Nutriverse.

Probably would cost me alot more per serving if I tried to duplicate it myself, or atleast a ton of money up front to buy in large enough bulk.

Tr1umph comes out to $1 a serving as well. So thats $2.35 a serving on workout days. Prove to me that you can beat this and still match the profiles.
 
djbombsquad

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Try and tell me that PES High Volume is underdosed, and it comes out to about $1.35 a serving. Always on sale at Nutriverse.

Probably would cost me alot more per serving if I tried to duplicate it myself, or atleast a ton of money up front to buy in large enough bulk.

Tr1umph comes out to $1 a serving as well. So thats $2.35 a serving on workout days. Prove to me that you can beat this and still match the profiles.
Pes is not underdosed with citrulline but not as good a arginine silicate .
Agmatine Sulfate is not imo as good as arginine silicate.
I use arginine silicate,nrala,gplc with glutathione and love the pump from it.
For my brain food I use Nadh, pqq,alpha gpc, mct, and hup a
I use aminos like Bcaa and glutamine and light protein from whole egg powder preworkout as well to get healthy fats and some complete protein to complement the Bcaa.
Use betaine and pa for strength and recovery
Coq10,pqq, creatine and sod for energy
It can add up man. Do a full dose of each and tell me it's under 1.50 I go to bulk powder places like ThinkitDrinkit and powder city, or nutra planet if they are on sale with there bulk powder.
 
djbombsquad

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Look a the preworkout from mts
22 bucks plus tax just for pump.
Alpha gpc at 600mg is around a buck.
So you can see how it all adds up.
 
Sean8616

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Please show me a reputable peer reviewed human study on sucralose demonstrating the 'fact' that sucralose is a "nasty ingredient" with detrimental health effects. (P.S. Rodent LD50 studies at 100x human consumption doses don't count)

There is limited human evidence to suggest that some portions of the population might get headaches when exposed to dietary doses of sucralose much higher than standard human consumption.

And that's pretty much it.

For someone calling people lazy to be spreading such uneducated bull**** is pretty amusing though.
You're a sensitive one, lol. Are you a rep?

I'm not going to waste my time searching for you, looking for a human consumption study.

I'm guessing you're either a rep, or you've just come to a state of mind to willfully participate in the study you're asking me for.

FYI, I don't think there is a peer reviewed study done for Azodicarbonamide, the Yoga Mat material that was used in subway breads.
 
Ape McGrapes

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You're a sensitive one, lol. Are you a rep?

I'm not going to waste my time searching for you, looking for a human consumption study.

I'm guessing you're either a rep, or you've just come to a state of mind to willfully participate in the study you're asking me for.

FYI, I don't think there is a peer reviewed study done for Azodicarbonamide, the Yoga Mat material that was used in subway breads.
Rep for who: every company using Sucralose? Or do you think the Sucralose people are watching? :paranoid:
 
djbombsquad

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I rep 4 push-ups.
 

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