Best Natural Strengh Supplements

[Yanks]

I wanted to know what some of your suggestions would be for improving strength. I already have creatine and beta alanine

Thanks

 

[cubsfan815]

I wanted to know what some of your suggestions would be for improving strength. I already have creatine and beta alanine

Thanks

I would add TMG to the basics you are using now. Then after they run out look into an all in one ergogenic product like Powermax XT, Ergonine, Tr1umph, etc.

For strength, it's so user dependant. I have seen strength results from

Anabeta Elite
Xgels
Alphamax XT/Anabeta Elite/Xgels combined was really fun.

I have not tried MassMax XT yet, however based on my prior Ecdy usage in 2006-2008 I responded well, and expect strength gains.

What tpe of routine are you running? That will play a major role.

 

[LeanEngineer]

An ABE and xgels run would be a nice strength stack. I love that stack. ABE and alphamax xt would be great as well.

 

[Yanks]

Typically powerlifting style routine. Right now doing much higher reps, sets of 10-20. Will gradually up the weight, then continue to up weight and lower reps for the next 8 weeks or so. Pretty much have s training phase and it starts over after I hit a goal with higher reps and just try to increase the weight 5-15lbs.

 

[Yanks]

Right now I'm planning to run two bottles of Follidrone, Invictus, Creatinol o phosphate, Creatine, Beta Alanine, maybe x gels I could add I don't wanna spend so much more money on a big expensive supplement.

Thinking more about something that is affordable to be a staple, but also I like the idea of x gels I've never tried them.

 

[cheftepesh1]

An ABE and xgels run would be a nice strength stack. I love that stack. ABE and alphamax xt would be great as well.

This was one of my better natty runs. The synergy is great with these two products.

 

[Ricky10]

Any of these; Anabeta Elite, Magnitropin, Follidrone 2.0, Orig1n, and presumably MassMax XT (still not released right?). All these are top options and can improve your training tremendously from my experience. Everyone kind of has their own favorite out of those choices as everyone responds a bit differently to each, so it can be a bit of a gamble in that regard..

 

[bb333]

From personal experience, the strength increases I felt with these supplements;

DAA
Anabeta elite
Lecithin soia
ARA
Tr1umph
Follidrone 2

 

[Misfit28]

You should definitely give X-Gels a run. Combining it with Soy Lecithin granules would be a good combo, as the SL will help to emulsify the ArA in the X-Gels for better absorption. Combine that with Anabeta Elite and you have an awesome stack.

Tr1umph would also be awesome, as it contains SL along with a ton of other ergogens.

 

[TeamTGB]

Best natural stack i ever ran was.

Black Lion Research Follidrone
Olympus labs Tr1umph
Iron Forged Nutrition Most Wanted
Pes Anabeta Elite.

If i was to run it now it would be better with folli 2.0/ Most Wanted Black Series/ i would switch to Matt Porters PharmGrade for my PA, and i would add in Titan from Antaeus Labs. This stack would shock even them most anti-natty product guys out there IMO.

 

[AntM1564]

All of the suggestions in here are good (Ara, AlphaMax XT, ABE, FD 2.0) but before stacking these together, I would suggest running them solo to see how they treat you. Remember, what works for one may not work for you.

If I had to choose one of the above to try solo first, I would opt for ArA.

 

[Yanks]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I've run Follidrone 2.0 before 4 weeks and the results were amazing. Maybe anabeta elite or x gels I will add into my stack.

What is ARA? Sorry if someone wrote it out I couldn't find it

 

[cubsfan815]

What is ARA? Sorry if someone wrote it out I couldn't find it

Arachidonic Acid the ingredient in Xgels

 

[R1balla]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I've run Follidrone 2.0 before 4 weeks and the results were amazing. Maybe anabeta elite or x gels I will add into my stack.

What is ARA? Sorry if someone wrote it out I couldn't find it

X gels by SNS. I would try this first before adding anything else so you can see how it treats you. Dose only on training days. There is no added benefit of dosing it on non training days. This also helps you extend your run with it.

Once you have concluded your run with x gels, look into another product that you would like to stack with x gels in the future. All of the suggestions above are great. I suggest Anabeta Elite and/or AlphaMax XT. They both contain forskolin so this will help keep fat at a minimum but also will yield strength gains as well as body comp improvement depending on your diet and training. Once you have tried all 3, it would make a great stack as long as the forskolin amount doesn't upset your stomach too much. Some people can handle it no problem, others are on the toilet too much for them to handle. This is just one example as to why we suggest taking products solo before stacking.

 

[SwoleNation]

MassMax XT mentioned above.... who/what is it?

 

[cubsfan815]

MassMax XT mentioned above.... who/what is it?

New product coming from Performax Labs. Should be out in about a week.

Link to writeup: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287952

 

[SwoleNation]

New product coming from Performax Labs. Should be out in about a week.

Ahh interesting, thanks!

 

[paula]

Anabeta elite for me.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I think you have already got your hands on them. Aside from the two you listed there aren't many that I've seen yield real world results. The most strentgh I have seen was from weight gain, no matter what kind of weight it was. So the only thing I can confidently say is to eat more food, food is the best natural anabolic at our disposal.

 

[Woody]

The feedback on Origin has been pretty stellar. Strength, sleep, appetite, digestion, muscle fullness, and body composition.

 

[210LBS]

New product coming from Performax Labs. Should be out in about a week.

Link to writeup: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287952

Not sure how I feel about this profile. I haven't read any glowing reviews about Rhaponticum products and the epicatechin seems extremely under dosed. With that said, I have very little experience with natural anabolics.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Hey OP, you should ask for, or seek out scientific data that shows an actual increase in strength before shelling out all that cash for a lot of "ahem" questionable products. COP? I'm still waiting for someone to provide data showing *anything* it does, when not injected.

Off the top of my head, and very cheap that can be run all year long - Baking Soda has shown strength increases, as has p-Synephrine. HMB-Ca as well.

ArA is one of the few things I saw above, that has some good data on it as well.

Oh, and food, like Empire said.

 

[brundel]

Right now I'm planning to run two bottles of Follidrone, Invictus, Creatinol o phosphate, Creatine, Beta Alanine, maybe x gels I could add I don't wanna spend so much more money on a big expensive supplement.

Thinking more about something that is affordable to be a staple, but also I like the idea of x gels I've never tried them.

Could add Letrone.
Reduced estrogen
Increased anabolic hormones= test, hgh, igf-1
Increased metabolism= t3,t4

Would stack well with the proposed supp combo.

EDIT: and I think I agree with regards to COP. Probably best to save your money and get cheap Creatine mono.
Cheap and it works well for those who respond to creatine.

 

[De__eB]

Hey OP, you should ask for, or seek out scientific data that shows an actual increase in strength before shelling out all that cash for a lot of "ahem" questionable products. COP? I'm still waiting for someone to provide data showing *anything* it does, when not injected.

The old research on it indicates that about 60% of COP reaches circulation via oral consumption.

I believe COP to be effective

 

[De__eB]

Some ingredients that have been human studied for power output:

-ARA
-HMB-FA
-Baking Soda
-Very high dose Caffeine (Not that I can officially recommend this due to tolerance issues )
-Alpha-GPC
-Well-dosed Ashwagandha

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Some ingredients that have been human studied for power output:

-ARA
-HMB-FA
-Baking Soda
-Very high dose Caffeine
-Alpha-GPC
-Well-dosed Ashwagandha

Nice list. You could also add PA to it.

Also, if you're concerned with endurance, the following can be useful too:
-Ashwagandha (again)
-Rhodiola
-PeakO2
-Citrulline
-Nitrates

 

[The_Old_Guy]

The old research on it indicates that about 60% of COP reaches circulation via oral consumption.

I believe COP to be effective

Just combed through:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=oral+creatinol+o+phosphate&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,23

Injections, injections, injections. Well, they do mention Oral with rodents in a bunch of patents. As far as I can tell, there's only been ONE study, in people, for muscular endurance (injected again):

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00726-011-0874-6

Creatinol

Creatinol in the form of creatinol-O-phosphate (COP) has been described and used in subjects with deficient myocardial circulation (Guglielmi and Mammarella 1979). Based on the findings that intravenous administration of COP in healthy human subjects led to increased values of creatinine in urine, it is speculated that creatinol acts as a precursor of creatine and is metabolized into creatine within the body (Melloni et al. 1979). The increased urinary values are derived from the degradation of creatine into creatinine through the typical biochemical pathways. Only one study investigated the ability of COP to improve muscular performance (Nicaise 1975). Fifty female patients were treated intramuscularly and intravenously with COP and performance tested utilizing a Martin Vigorimeter to measure muscle strength in both hands. The administration of COP resulted in a statistically significant improvement in hand strength.

Patrick Arnold dropped it from his lineup. If you have any links saved to oral, human, performance increases, pass'em along.

 

[booneman77]

Arachidonic acid. Hands down the number one. Sns xgels are goat for natty strength and pumps.

Some other possible additions or choices: cel epi plex/ Sparta nutrition Epicurus (epicatechin supps); Sparta nutrition Hercules (laxogenin); PES anabeta elite; myokem magnitropin

 

[tyga tyga]

Surplus in calories
SNS xgels
Preworkout (PES high volume or USPlabs Modern Pre) ~ anything with TMG, creatine and citrulline
Solid progressive strength program

 

[Adizzle1]

Not sure how I feel about this profile. I haven't read any glowing reviews about Rhaponticum products and the epicatechin seems extremely under dosed. With that said, I have very little experience with natural anabolics.

Read the write up and keep in mind the enhanced intenstinal permeation from sodium caprate. As for Epi its a pretty good dose, most recent study in humans that showed increased follistatin to myostatin ratio was a daily dose of 150mg.

 

[AdelV]

How much baking soda do people take?

 

[De__eB]

Just combed through:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=oral+creatinol+o+phosphate&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,23

Injections, injections, injections. Well, they do mention Oral with rodents in a bunch of patents. As far as I can tell, there's only been ONE study, in people, for muscular endurance (injected again):

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00726-011-0874-6



Patrick Arnold dropped it from his lineup. If you have any links saved to oral, human, performance increases, pass'em along.

Didn't say I have links saved to oral human performance increases.

I said that in original drug studies for heart health, the oral bio-availability was mentioned.

What metabolic fate do you see COP meeting that would render it not orally bioavailable?

Anyway, I wouldn't suggest COP for strength increases.

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

Xgels + anabeta + creatine of your choice

 

[The_Old_Guy]

What metabolic fate do you see COP meeting that would render it not orally bioavailable?

No clue, don't wear a lab coat at work But I'd rather *see* what it does when swallowed by humans, than guess, based on 20-40 year old research, 99%(?) of which are injections. I mean, PA couldn't even provide sources:

Hi Patrick!

Sounds like a very interesting compound. Unfortunately, the abstracts for studies on COP are seriously lacking on Pubmed, and the only other info I can dig up on it is from other supplement companies.

Could you point me in the direction of some of the studies and the anecdotal feedback you mentioned?

Thanks,
pogue

Pogue, try google scholar. you just do a google search and click on the “more” link at top and scroll down and hit scholar. As far as the anecdotal feedback i mention in my blog you are not going to find that written anywhere. The people i refer to are private individuals outside of the internet world and for whom anonymity is paramount

Aplodan was discontinued, PN's Effervescent was discontinued - odd for something that works?

I mean, even if it does *something* orally going off of the Mouse/Rat Patent Application data - where can I compare it to just taking the WAY more affordable, and much better documented solo or combo: Creatine/Beta-Alanine/Betaine/Sodium Bicarbonate, or even Inositol Hexaphosphate?

Depending on which Patent Application you read, and converting to HED, you'd need 1.5-3g (which seems odd, as it was the same 200mg/kg in both animals), and PA said 6g was best of his Effervescent version. Best I could find was 90, 500mg Caps for $23

Anyway, I can agree that you are smarter than me and say it's effective - but I think you can agree with me that this is the most under documented effective supplement on the planet, save for maybe the Ecdysterones in those secret, 50 year old Russian lab journals

 

[De__eB]

How much baking soda do people take?

Adel Moussa is a fan of baking soda for performance, here's a few of his blogs on it:

Bicarbonate For Strength Athletes: 25g of Baking Soda Up Your Squat (+27%) & Bench Press (+6%) Within 60 Min

Sodium Bicarbonate (NaHCO3) Increases PGC1-A & Speeds Up Mitochondrial Adaptation - HIIT + Bicarb = Perfect Match

Creatine + Sodium Bicarbonate: Two New Studies Show You Can Make the Most-Researched Ergogenic Even Better W/ a Few Grams of Baking Soda - Sign + Non-Sign Benefits

 

[De__eB]

No clue, don't wear a lab coat at work But I'd rather *see* what it does when swallowed by humans, than guess, based on 20-40 year old research, 99%(?) of which are injections. I mean, PA couldn't even provide sources:



Aplodan was discontinued, PN's Effervescent was discontinued - odd for something that works?

I mean, even if it does *something* orally going off of the Mouse/Rat Patent Application data - where can I compare it to just taking the WAY more affordable, and much better documented solo or combo: Creatine/Beta-Alanine/Betaine/Sodium Bicarbonate, or even Inositol Hexaphosphate?

Depending on which Patent Application you read, and converting to HED, you'd need 1.5-3g (which seems odd, as it was the same 200mg/kg in both animals), and PA said 6g was best of his Effervescent version. Best I could find was 90, 500mg Caps for $23

Anyway, I can agree that you are smarter than me and say it's effective - but I think you can agree with me that this is the most under documented effective supplement on the planet, save for maybe the Ecdysterones on those secret, 50 year old Russian lab journals

I wouldn't call myself smarter than you, as soon as you think you're smarter than other people you've turned into an idiot

Plenty of supplements that 'work' get discontinued, ingredient reputations can be tarnished by improper dosing, proper dosing might be too expensive, or the data on the ingredient might just not be glamorous enough to market.

Ecdysterones are way more well documented than COP fwiw

When I think undocumented supplements, there's a lot out there that have never been human studied via any form of administration for any purpose.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

How much baking soda do people take?

I could have sworn I replied to this, but it's gone?

Anyway, De__eB also put up the links from Suppversity. In addition, I said ~0.3g/kg and you're going to want to "Serial Load" it - it will probably give you Osmotic Diarrhea when taken all at once. I put 30g in 16 ounces of water and take a *small* swig every time I walk by it -over the waking hours = no diarrhea.

 

[brundel]

How much baking soda do people take?

Even small amounts of baking soda can cause gastro issues. Moderate to high amounts can cause pretty severe side effects.
Dont take high dose baking soda. The risk/vs/reward is just not there.
I know people are recommending it but I would avoid it.

Just for an example=
Your stomach has hydrochloric acid in it. This is a video demonstrating baking soda combined with hydrochloric acid.
Although the amount of acid in your stomach is likely less than this youll get the basic idea.
Not something you want happening in your stomach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXZjYfq3LtI

 

[Ricky10]

More on Baking soda;

“I nearly died after taking this stuff,” said William Graves, who suffered a rupture through the wall of his stomach in 1979 after taking baking soda mixed in water for indigestion after a big meal. The 64-year-old resident of Bethesda,Md., who is editor of National Geographic Magazine, said that only emergency surgery saved his life and that six more operations were needed to repair the damage. Though there are only a few documented cases users need to know of the dangers.
Sodium bicarbonate side effects can include metabolic alkalosis, edema due to sodium overload, congestive heart failure, hyperosmolar syndrome, hypervolemic hypernatremia, and hypertension due to increased sodium. In patients who consume a high calcium or dairy-rich diet, calcium supplements, or calcium-containing antacids such as calcium carbonate (e.g., Tums), the use of sodium bicarbonate can cause milk-alkali syndrome, which can result in metastatic calcification, kidney stones, and kidney failure.

Messing with your acid-base balance is not a wise thing to do...please don't do this people!

 

[Misfit28]

More on Baking soda;

“I nearly died after taking this stuff,” said William Graves, who suffered a rupture through the wall of his stomach in 1979 after taking baking soda mixed in water for indigestion after a big meal. The 64-year-old resident of Bethesda,Md., who is editor of National Geographic Magazine, said that only emergency surgery saved his life and that six more operations were needed to repair the damage. Though there are only a few documented cases users need to know of the dangers.
Sodium bicarbonate side effects can include metabolic alkalosis, edema due to sodium overload, congestive heart failure, hyperosmolar syndrome, hypervolemic hypernatremia, and hypertension due to increased sodium. In patients who consume a high calcium or dairy-rich diet, calcium supplements, or calcium-containing antacids such as calcium carbonate (e.g., Tums), the use of sodium bicarbonate can cause milk-alkali syndrome, which can result in metastatic calcification, kidney stones, and kidney failure.

Messing with your acid-base balance is not a wise thing to do...please don't do this people!

Missing some context here. Here's the original article: In Rare Cases of Indigestion, Baking Soda May Be a Peril - NYTimes.com

Here's what he had before taking baking soda and experiencing a rupture as a result:

"He said the incident occurred while he was on vacation after an evening when he consumed two vodka martinis, a bowl of chili with corn chips on the side, a salad, corn bread, a glass of red wine, cookies and an after-dinner brandy. Soon after going to bed, he awakened with indigestion and mixed a teaspoon of baking soda with a small amount of water. Less than a minute after drinking it, he said, he collapsed in agony when a two-and-a-half-inch rupture occurred in the inner curve of his stomach."

 

[brundel]

More on Baking soda;

“I nearly died after taking this stuff,” said William Graves, who suffered a rupture through the wall of his stomach in 1979 after taking baking soda mixed in water for indigestion after a big meal. The 64-year-old resident of Bethesda,Md., who is editor of National Geographic Magazine, said that only emergency surgery saved his life and that six more operations were needed to repair the damage. Though there are only a few documented cases users need to know of the dangers.
Sodium bicarbonate side effects can include metabolic alkalosis, edema due to sodium overload, congestive heart failure, hyperosmolar syndrome, hypervolemic hypernatremia, and hypertension due to increased sodium. In patients who consume a high calcium or dairy-rich diet, calcium supplements, or calcium-containing antacids such as calcium carbonate (e.g., Tums), the use of sodium bicarbonate can cause milk-alkali syndrome, which can result in metastatic calcification, kidney stones, and kidney failure.

Messing with your acid-base balance is not a wise thing to do...please don't do this people!

There are some "alkaline waters" like the nestle one for example that use bicarbonates to increase alkalinity.
If I drink even a half a bottle of this water I get severe abdominal cramps and eventually diarrhea.

This is just from a small amount in the water.

Some people can tolerate a little but most cant.

 

[Misfit28]

There are some "alkaline waters" like the nestle one for example that use bicarbonates to increase alkalinity.
If I drink even a half a bottle of this water I get severe abdominal cramps and eventually diarrhea.

This is just from a small amount in the water.

Some people can tolerate a little but most cant.

This dude ate quite a bit, then took it LOL.

 

[brundel]

This dude ate quite a bit, then took it LOL.

Im not at all surprised at what happened. Sounds brutal though. Can you imagine having your insides ripped open. Did you watch the video I posted a few posts back? Imagine that happening to your stomach with all that food and alcohol in there......Just rupturing and exploding into your abdominal cavity.
Even a super small amount causes pretty severe distress for me personally and a few others I know also cant tolerate water with bicarbonates.

I dont think I could eat the food that guy ate without the baking soda lol.

 

[Misfit28]

Im not at all surprised at what happened. Sounds brutal though. Can you imagine having your insides ripped open. Did you watch the video I posted a few posts back? Imagine that happening to your stomach with all that food and alcohol in there......Just rupturing and exploding into your abdominal cavity.
Even a super small amount causes pretty severe distress for me personally and a few others I know also cant tolerate water with bicarbonates.

I dont think I could eat the food that guy ate without the baking soda lol.

That would suck!

 

[De__eB]

There are some "alkaline waters" like the nestle one for example that use bicarbonates to increase alkalinity.
If I drink even a half a bottle of this water I get severe abdominal cramps and eventually diarrhea.

This is just from a small amount in the water.

Some people can tolerate a little but most cant.

Lots of competitive athletes use baking soda.

Most people tolerate it fine if they don't drink it diluted in a large volume of fluid and without having just consumed a massive meal.

Obviously people should assess their individual tolerance before using it.

Most supp company people seem irrationally against it because it's been study proven in human trials over and over and over again and costs less than a dollar for a months supply.

 

[paula]

Creatine and anabeta work for me. I also have some prewrkout but somtimes make me horny before workout. Maybe because of nitric oxide?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Now I've seen it all.... *insert avatar for shaking head in amazement, here*

 

[210LBS]

Creatine and anabeta work for me. I also have some prewrkout but somtimes make me horny before workout. Maybe because of nitric oxide?

Should have used some of that stuff on my ex.

 

[bigsmall]

Folidrone 2.0 or ARA. Stacking either one with cheap PA helps.

 

[djbombsquad]

I wanted to know what some of your suggestions would be for improving strength. I already have creatine and beta alanine

Thanks

Peak atp, elev atp, betaine, pqq to name a few. Bcaa as a secondary muscle and strength builder.
Alpha gpc is another goood one for strength and mind power