Melatonin supplementation = pineal gland shutdown?

muchstronger2

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I've been taking Melatonin @500mcg everyday for the past year, and I mean every night before bed without exception.

It all started after a long plane trip, I found I slept incredibly better when on it.

However what I noticed while on it is that my daytime energy and libido have fallen, although I sleep better and feel more "refreshed".

The conclusion is I quit taking the supplement 1 week ago, but I could instantly feel my sleep was not as refeshing although my daytime energy and libido are better.

I read everywhere that Melatonin supplementation didn't cause shutdown or tolerance no matter for how long you take it.

Is that true? Or could it be that I shut down my pineal gland, or worse atrophied it to the point it will never produce Melatonin again?
 

sespress

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I've been taking Melatonin @500mcg everyday for the past year, and I mean every night before bed without exception.

It all started after a long plane trip, I found I slept incredibly better when on it.

However what I noticed while on it is that my daytime energy and libido have fallen, although I sleep better and feel more "refreshed".

The conclusion is I quit taking the supplement 1 week ago, but I could instantly feel my sleep was not as refeshing although my daytime energy and libido are better.

I read everywhere that Melatonin supplementation didn't cause shutdown or tolerance no matter for how long you take it.

Is that true? Or could it be that I shut down my pineal gland, or worse atrophied it to the point it will never produce Melatonin again?
Whoa. Dude that'd be an industry breaking find. You have to wonder though, if you replace or augment a body chemical there's got to be something that gets thrown off. I never buy into "totally safe no sides", maybe homoeopathics, but other stuff who knows. The body is an amazing machine, and it adapts to every change. I somehow don't think you can crush the pineal like that but if you did would you not expect the whole endocrine system to crash out? Are your symptoms that bad? Could it just be age or change in diet/exercise taking out energy and libido?
 

muchstronger2

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Whoa. Dude that'd be an industry breaking find. You have to wonder though, if you replace or augment a body chemical there's got to be something that gets thrown off. I never buy into "totally safe no sides", maybe homoeopathics, but other stuff who knows. The body is an amazing machine, and it adapts to every change. I somehow don't think you can crush the pineal like that but if you did would you not expect the whole endocrine system to crash out? Are your symptoms that bad? Could it just be age or change in diet/exercise taking out energy and libido?
I'm 28.
I have closely linked melatonin with my loss of libido as I did bouts of experiments for one week where quitting melatonin restored libido.

Also, has anyone noticed a decrease in muscle mass over prolonged melatonin use?
I know it's couter-intuitive as it is a somatostatin inhibitor, but that's why I have noticed
 

sespress

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I don't regularly take it. I would post in nootropics boards around the net, not just here. I'm not sure how make AM users are going to have taken it that regularly. Good luck dude
 

sespress

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Oh, and see an endocrinologist too. Can't hurt to get bloods done. Might be something they can peg right away
 
heavylifter33

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I've been taking Melatonin @500mcg everyday for the past year, and I mean every night before bed without exception.

It all started after a long plane trip, I found I slept incredibly better when on it.

However what I noticed while on it is that my daytime energy and libido have fallen, although I sleep better and feel more "refreshed".

The conclusion is I quit taking the supplement 1 week ago, but I could instantly feel my sleep was not as refeshing although my daytime energy and libido are better.

I read everywhere that Melatonin supplementation didn't cause shutdown or tolerance no matter for how long you take it.

Is that true? Or could it be that I shut down my pineal gland, or worse atrophied it to the point it will never produce Melatonin again?
I'm going to go with no. Just, no.
 

Sss23

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I've taken 1-3mg routinely for 2 years and am wondering the same thing.. seems like I can't get a sleepy feeling without it
 

scump

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I've taken 1-3mg routinely for 2 years and am wondering the same thing.. seems like I can't get a sleepy feeling without it
its all in your head (no pun intended).

have you thought to look at the research? I know its weird BC over in yank land you guys sell fkn everything as a supplement no matter what, buuuuut in every other country melatonin is actually sold as a drug.

First of all, unless you were taking CR melatonin it most likely did nothing at all for your sleep other than help you initially fall to sleep a little bit.

Second of all, there is mountains of research on it man, look into it, and if you post back with some 12 person study or rat study then you will likely be ridiculed for ignoring data to locate specifics that conform with your own.

The initial research was focused on 2mg CR (circadin) which was found beneficial to patients 55 years or older suffering from insomnia and another particular cohort that have issues with sleep, alzheimers patients... They were found to have no side effects, shut down, rebound after ceasing... now if you're saying your body is less capable than a 88 year olds, i believe you have other problems.

There has been more recent research looking at younger people suggesting the therapeutic dose is closer to 5mg CR a night...10x what you're taking.

So odds are your better sleep, was likely more psychological than anything, which is exactly what i would link these current symptoms too. (people love hearing that)
 

muchstronger2

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its all in your head (no pun intended).

have you thought to look at the research? I know its weird BC over in yank land you guys sell fkn everything as a supplement no matter what, buuuuut in every other country melatonin is actually sold as a drug.

First of all, unless you were taking CR melatonin it most likely did nothing at all for your sleep other than help you initially fall to sleep a little bit.

Second of all, there is mountains of research on it man, look into it, and if you post back with some 12 person study or rat study then you will likely be ridiculed for ignoring data to locate specifics that conform with your own.

The initial research was focused on 2mg CR (circadin) which was found beneficial to patients 55 years or older suffering from insomnia and another particular cohort that have issues with sleep, alzheimers patients... They were found to have no side effects, shut down, rebound after ceasing... now if you're saying your body is less capable than a 88 year olds, i believe you have other problems.

There has been more recent research looking at younger people suggesting the therapeutic dose is closer to 5mg CR a night...10x what you're taking.

So odds are your better sleep, was likely more psychological than anything, which is exactly what i would link these current symptoms too. (people love hearing that)

What you are stating is false: the majority of studies show best effects for a restful sleep with no morning grogginess 300mcg.

Which makes sense as the natural nocturnal production is around 100mcg.

Taking 10 times the dose altered slow wave sleep for the worse
 

scump

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What you are stating is false: the majority of studies show best effects for a restful sleep with no morning grogginess 300mcg.

Which makes sense as the natural nocturnal production is around 100mcg.

Taking 10 times the dose altered slow wave sleep for the worse
Yeah ok Dr google, solid research.

Did you even look into the pharmaceutical drug that has actually passed approval... meaning its got clinical trials to back it up? nah rely on you 14 person study because it supports what you do, very good.

The doses i quoted have clinical studies to support that they mimic natural levels of endogenous melatonin. So this information is not false, you just have an unwillingness to learn.

You also didn't comment on the CR aspect, given melatonin has an extremely short half life in humans this is in fact the most important part of the medication entirely if you plan on taking it for sleep.

Have a read through here:
www . ema.europa. eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/EPAR_-_Scientific_Discussion/human/000695/WC500026808. pdf
and here:
www . circadin. com/about-circadin/

but i doubt you will, given your response you aren't looking for an answer, you're just looking for people who agree with what you think is wrong. (in spite of the fact that within the clinical trials 2mg CR over 18months showed no alteration of lab values or signs of pineal shut down)
 

muchstronger2

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Yeah ok Dr google, solid research.

Did you even look into the pharmaceutical drug that has actually passed approval... meaning its got clinical trials to back it up? nah rely on you 14 person study because it supports what you do, very good.

The doses i quoted have clinical studies to support that they mimic natural levels of endogenous melatonin. So this information is not false, you just have an unwillingness to learn.

You also didn't comment on the CR aspect, given melatonin has an extremely short half life in humans this is in fact the most important part of the medication entirely if you plan on taking it for sleep.

Have a read through here:
www . ema.europa. eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/EPAR_-_Scientific_Discussion/human/000695/WC500026808. pdf
and here:
www . circadin. com/about-circadin/

but i doubt you will, given your response you aren't looking for an answer, you're just looking for people who agree with what you think is wrong. (in spite of the fact that within the clinical trials 2mg CR over 18months showed no alteration of lab values or signs of pineal shut down)
I take it "CR" is a slow-release melatonin brand?

What do you mean by "pharmaceutical drug"? A superior grade of melatonin? Melatonin is melatonin, only the dosage varies between brands.

Despite my tone I'm open to all arguments and studies, they just seem to go in the complete opposite direction of what I've read so far.

You're right in the sense that a slow-release version would probably mimic best natural sleep patterns.

You have a good brand of slow-release melatonin that is ONLY melatonin?
All versions I found had B6, which messes with my sleep big time (makes it light with vivid dreams instead of deep and restfull)
 

scump

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I take it "CR" is a slow-release melatonin brand?

What do you mean by "pharmaceutical drug"? A superior grade of melatonin? Melatonin is melatonin, only the dosage varies between brands.

Despite my tone I'm open to all arguments and studies, they just seem to go in the complete opposite direction of what I've read so far.

You're right in the sense that a slow-release version would probably mimic best natural sleep patterns.

You have a good brand of slow-release melatonin that is ONLY melatonin?
All versions I found had B6, which messes with my sleep big time (makes it light with vivid dreams instead of deep and restfull)
CR= controlled release in this insance.

When i say pharamceutical drug, yes it is a higher grade. To be a pharmaceutical drug it has to be regulated... you think your supplements over there have quality control? Hmm Craze, Detonate, Teacrine... some quality control.

But no its not the quality of melatonin im talking about but the fact it had to undergo multiple phases of clinical trials in order to pass approval, again the brand name of this medication is Circadin it contains nothing but 2mg of slow release melatonin. It has mountains of clinical research backing it up and supporting its approval.

Now im not saying not to use a supplement over there, but if you want to be sure of quality make sure its been HPLC tested or something to have some semblance of quality assurance.
 

sespress

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CR= controlled release in this insance.

When i say pharamceutical drug, yes it is a higher grade. To be a pharmaceutical drug it has to be regulated... you think your supplements over there have quality control? Hmm Craze, Detonate, Teacrine... some quality control.

But no its not the quality of melatonin im talking about but the fact it had to undergo multiple phases of clinical trials in order to pass approval, again the brand name of this medication is Circadin it contains nothing but 2mg of slow release melatonin. It has mountains of clinical research backing it up and supporting its approval.

Now im not saying not to use a supplement over there, but if you want to be sure of quality make sure its been HPLC tested or something to have some semblance of quality assurance.
Man sounds kind like your about to take on the American supplement industry on the battlefield. There's def some sh!tty brands, epic disasters (phen phen), and the like. But there are domestic products that are good and have good quality. They're not all snake oil just because there's no government control.
 

muchstronger2

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CR= controlled release in this insance.

When i say pharamceutical drug, yes it is a higher grade. To be a pharmaceutical drug it has to be regulated... you think your supplements over there have quality control? Hmm Craze, Detonate, Teacrine... some quality control.

But no its not the quality of melatonin im talking about but the fact it had to undergo multiple phases of clinical trials in order to pass approval, again the brand name of this medication is Circadin it contains nothing but 2mg of slow release melatonin. It has mountains of clinical research backing it up and supporting its approval.

Now im not saying not to use a supplement over there, but if you want to be sure of quality make sure its been HPLC tested or something to have some semblance of quality assurance.
I would venture to say that any Now or Source Natural time-release melatonin is just as good as pharmaceutical grade melatonin.

It's a legal substance with no incentive to counterfeit it, so these big companies with huge facilities AND quality control will just continue producing high grade supplements as they have always been doing
 
rtmilburn

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Man sounds kind like your about to take on the American supplement industry on the battlefield. There's def some sh!tty brands, epic disasters (phen phen), and the like. But there are domestic products that are good and have good quality. They're not all snake oil just because there's no government control.
You do realize that phenfen was actually a prescription drug. It was not a supplement.
 

sespress

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You do realize that phenfen was actually a prescription drug. It was not a supplement.
Well it was sold at "clinics". I put that in quotes because they hardly qualified as looking out for your health, it was all about making money slanging phen phen. So I figured it fit.
 

muchstronger2

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Didn't we go over this already??? Holy crap, we kind of did:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/287403-melatonin-androgen-receptors.html

Take your 300mcg of Melatonin -> Go to Strip Club -> Have 2 Tequila Shots -> Interact with some of the employees, preferably in a private room -> Check your, um, "libido".

If it ain't working, then maybe it *is* a problem.... for you.
And we will go over it as much as needed, as far as I know we haven't reached any satisfying conclusion on the topic.

On the practical experience side of things, I do go to strip clubs quite often and found out I was almost never attracted by anyone on stage while on melatonin, and right after quitting I would have a semi-boner at anything randomly the shape of tits.

Androgen receptors are not the only factor in libido or erection, but melatonin does play a role in both, with whichever mechanism underlying it.
 
muscleupcrohn

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You could always "blind" yourself and test it out. Get some identical looking capsules, and have a friend give you a week or two of either placebo pills or melatonin, without telling you which one you're getting, and then use the other when it's gone. Keep track of how you feel, and have him tell you which was which after you're done with both. If your libido is high or low both times, or high with melatonin vs without, then you have more reason to say it's NOT the melatonin. If the melatonin time did lower your libido, then we'll talk again, haha.
 

muchstronger2

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You could always "blind" yourself and test it out. Get some identical looking capsules, and have a friend give you a week or two of either placebo pills or melatonin, without telling you which one you're getting, and then use the other when it's gone. Keep track of how you feel, and have him tell you which was which after you're done with both. If your libido is high or low both times, or high with melatonin vs without, then you have more reason to say it's NOT the melatonin. If the melatonin time did lower your libido, then we'll talk again, haha.
Why would I blind-randomized study myself when I can just experience tremendous erections now that I'm done with melatonin?
 
muscleupcrohn

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Why would I blind-randomized study myself when I can just experience tremendous erections now that I'm done with melatonin?
I'm not saying you should, just that it'd help see if it really is due to the melatonin. If you don't want to take it, there's really no need to. I was just putting another idea out there.
 

muchstronger2

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I'm not saying you should, just that it'd help see if it really is due to the melatonin. If you don't want to take it, there's really no need to. I was just putting another idea out there.
It IS due melatonin. I quit = libido is back
 

carguy123

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It IS due melatonin. I quit = libido is back
Then quit fukking taking it, problem solved no? I really dont even understand what type of help you are looking for at this point. Obviously you have found the source of your problem
 

muchstronger2

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Then quit fukking taking it, problem solved no? I really dont even understand what type of help you are looking for at this point. Obviously you have found the source of your problem
So I'm going to write it once more as if I hadn't written it in the past 3 posts: I QUIT
 

carguy123

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So I'm going to write it once more as if I hadn't written it in the past 3 posts: I QUIT
Best of luck dude, you seem to be quite obsessed with this so I hope you can find some sort rational to calm your mind....
 

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