How do you feel about whey protein hydrolysate?

[johnnyp]

Example 1: https://pescience.com/articles/lesson-11-hydrolyzed-whey-paying-more-for-less/

"WPH resulted in 1/3 of the muscle gain caused by WPC...but it will also result in less muscle gain and more fat gain"

Example 2: 35g of PWO Whey Don't Build Extra Muscle, but Help Shed Body Fat | Plus: Is Hydro-Whey Better Than Concentrate? - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

Hydrolyzed whey helped lose body fat but not muscle gain.

Opinions?

 

[Lukewarmth94]

Depending on if your using a "supplement" or not, pretty much a good product of whey is good all around. I prefer 3g 100% whey with ALOT of ? off cycle w/mma training

 

[Lukewarmth94]

But everyone bodies are slightly differently built-in w/protein synthesis

 

[pro45]

According to Alan Aragon and the research, casein hydrolysate (pepto pro) is the protein we should steer away from. It's been shown to be beneficial in growing the visceral organs rather than muscle tissue. If you do a google search you can find several studies. Very pricey, too...

I am more and more enjoying vegan proteins such as pea and rice, although I do keep in milk protein isolate and whey casein as well.

 

[Young Gotti]

I've used it as part of my intraworkout drinks...I force compete....if it's a protein shake your looking to drink and money allows, I just stick with whey isolate

 

[Rebel1978]

I switched from WPH to WPC several years ago, wish I had all that wasted money back............

 

[The_Old_Guy]

WPC isn't fast enough! I - Need - More - Speed!!!!!!

You know what's faster than WPH intra-workout? Eating WPC 1 hour before

 

[GreekTheBrick]

If its all about that window I have inside that it doesnt exist. That and Santa

 

[Young Gotti]

WPC isn't fast enough! I - Need - More - Speed!!!!!!

You know what's faster than WPH intra-workout? Eating WPC 1 hour before

use both

 

[The_Old_Guy]

use both

That would be like wearing a rubber while banging a chick with a hysterectomy ?

 

[johnnyp]

My point was that outside the context of "protein is protein" that hydro whey might not be conducive to muscle gain so why would companies put it in their products and why would people use it as a supplemental means of protein ingestion if this were the case?

 

[Lukewarmth94]

My point was that outside the context of "protein is protein" that hydro whey might not be conducive to muscle gain so why would companies put it in their products and why would people use it as a supplemental means of protein ingestion if this were the case?

Bump bump bump it up

 

[toddmuelheim]

My point was that outside the context of "protein is protein" that hydro whey might not be conducive to muscle gain so why would companies put it in their products and why would people use it as a supplemental means of protein ingestion if this were the case?

Because differentiation often leads to increased profits regardless of the results of the product

 

[Young Gotti]

That would be like wearing a rubber while banging a chick with a hysterectomy ��

nope

 

[Lukewarmth94]

nope

LOL

 

[Young Gotti]

My point was that outside the context of "protein is protein" that hydro whey might not be conducive to muscle gain so why would companies put it in their products and why would people use it as a supplemental means of protein ingestion if this were the case?

I've read a few different things that discuss recovery and performance with the use of a hydrolyzed protein.......so for athletes not looking for bodybuilding type muscle, if it's better for them to turn around after a few hours and be able to train again or take while training to enhance performance or recovery time between bouts then it might be useful

 

[BigGame84]

Here's my go-to blend: 70% WPI- Cold Filtered, 20% Casein, 10% Hydrolyzed.

 

[johnnyp]

Here's my go-to blend: 70% WPI- Cold Filtered, 20% Casein, 10% Hydrolyzed.

But why the 10% hydro?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Here's my understanding of Protein - feel free to correct anything that is wrong/assumed: When "making" Whey Protein, you start out with Concentrate - this has all the "stuff" in it (and some say it is the best, due to it containing everything like immunoglobulins, micro-fractions, etc...).

The next step down (or up going by price) is some form of Isolate, where they basically jam it through different filters (or other methods) to remove the fat and sugar and other things.

Whey isolates have had their base component (water) removed and are generally considered almost lactose and cholesterol free — they are typically at least 90% protein.[3]

Two separation methods are widely used. One method utilizes ion exchangers which extract native whey protein from the whey stream according to the surface charge characteristics of the molecule, also known as the zeta-potential. This method uses mild pH adjustments to activate and subsequently deactivate the attraction between the ion exchange resin and the protein molecules. In between the temporary binding of protein to the resin, non-protein components are thoroughly washed from the reactor. This process may or may not damage the proteins,[citation needed] but no scientific evidence exists to suggest that it does. Although strong acids and bases are used for the adjustment, the pH rise itself is quite small and within the range common in foods. Changes in protein conformation within this range are reversible and are not considered denaturation. Ion exchange is highly specific to native whey proteins and is generally more selective in what is retained during the process. This is why the process is best known for creating highly pure whey proteins.

The second method, membrane filtration, typically a combination of microfiltration and ultrafiltration, uses molecular size as the basis for separating components from the whey stream. In the process, pressure is applied across a membrane surface which forces smaller molecules through the membrane while larger molecules are retained. Both methods yield a very high protein to non-protein product ratio, although membrane filtration is somewhat less selective allowing any molecule within a size range to be retained. One compositional difference between whey protein isolates made from cheese whey via membrane filtration compared to ion exchange is that membrane filtration includes significant levels of the casein fragment caseino-glycomacropeptide (cGMP). This fragment has a less complete amino acid profile and is low in branched chain amino acids.

Finally there is Hydrolyzed:

Hydrolyzed protein is protein that has been hydrolyzed or broken down into its component amino acids. While there are many means of achieving this, two of the most common are prolonged boiling in a strong acid (acid-HVP) or strong base or using an enzyme such as pancreatic protease to simulate the naturally occurring hydrolytic process.

So as long as you are not allergic to Lactose - WPC will eventually be broken down into everything the other two types claim to contain/have. WPH just has done to it, what your own body will eventually do to it - beforehand.

So it's just a speed thing (and about $20 more per pound). The stomach clearance rate is generally about 3 hrs for 50% of it's contents, and 6 hrs to completely empty. And there is plenty of data out there about how fast "Plain Old Whey" starts hitting the blood stream. So unless you are a rare type of trainee (Olympics?) - if you can just eat once or twice before lifting - you are good man (and richer).

WPH doesn't contain anything that Isolate and Concentrate don't have - it's just broken down more initially. I'd say it's only advantage might be to prevent gatsro issues for certain groups.

 

[HIT4ME]

I think people often forget that our bodies have evolved over many, many years. The fact is, we are pretty darn good at absorbing and utilizing proteins. Having an egg, or a whey powder, or a chunk of meat - really doesn't make a world of difference. And you can make cases in both directions - having the entire protein, in tact, will allow your body to break it down and utilize what it needs without any missing parts. But if your body is missing something it needs to break down the protein, or the process isn't totally efficient for whatever reason, having the parts already broken down may be of benefit.

A LOT (not all) of the amino acid, hyrdolysate, etc. studies are done on individuals who are sick or older. This, of course, supports the "if the process is broken, it's better to make it easier" part of the theory - but for most of us, the process isn't broken.

 

[johnnyp]

I understand it's benefit for some but part of what I am trying to understand is why in supplements that are sometimes referred to as "blends" are composed of WPC, WPI and WPH in varying amounts.

 

[pro45]

I understand it's benefit for some but part of what I am trying to understand is why in supplements that are sometimes referred to as "blends" are composed of WPC, WPI and WPH in varying amounts.

Be extremely leery and cautious if the label says "proprietary blend". With protein powders and any other supplement containing several different ingredients.

 

[Joshinator]

--so from what i understand when they take whey from milk, the first main product is sweet whey which is only about 40% whey protien. then they refine it up to 89% protein by weight, call that concentrate. they can refine it 90% + and call it it isolate.
--also theres different degrees to which whey can by hydrolyzed. -> rumor has it that anything above 20%ish starts getting bitter.

the issue with "hydrolysate", i think, is they can take a lower quality protien (such as sweet whey - for example ) hydrolyze it to a small degree and call it whey hydrolysate, and charge an individual more for it.

my best guess is that a hydrolysate made from 90% or higher whey AND hydrolyzed to atleast a degree of 20% would be very beneficial. i wonder if whey hydrolyzed to a degree of 50-100% could be used in place of bcaa's or eaa's.. also does anybody know of a company that discloses the degree of hydrolization, as well as the starting product(concentrate, isolate)

 

[danielmoo]

I believe WPH can be utilized very well in some scenarios. Good point made above me as well

 

[georgetown]

Hydrolyzed whey is different than this hydroslate menitoned right? I believe hyrodlyzed can be beneficial for intraworkout

 

[Joshinator]

Hydrolyzed whey is different than this hydroslate menitoned right? I believe hyrodlyzed can be beneficial for intraworkout

its 2 different ways of saying the same thing. just one had "ed" instead of "ate". both mean the same thing. hydrolyze is a term that means broken down.

 

[slk28]

Its good if your on a cut and have digestive issues with protein and i have seen great results with people who used the original VP2 whey however the stuff isn't the best for your liver.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Your bodies' going to do to regular Whey, what the mfg does to the WPH - digest it it down to the smallest amino/peptide. So *if* you can take in a "regular" shake, or food - 60,90 minutes prior training - you're just as good and it's cheaper. There's also the fact that while it seems to be hella awesome for immunity because the intestines suck it up - it's questionable on being better at muscle building, especially figuring in cost. You'd have to be a very rare bird, IMO, to actually benefit from WPH - think an Iron Man competitor or something. WPC an hour ago, is faster than WPH now. There are also a few recent threads on this same topic if you want more info.