Supplements that should not be combined

[Mach .78]

I started this thread to get everyone's ideas on what Supps.,Herbs,
etc... should not be combined together. For example, Ginko Biloba and Asprin come to mind. I don't have the articles to explain the details of this bad combo but I know they are both blood thinners and just don't do well together. If you have any bad combos that everyone new to the forums as well as the regular crowd can benefit from, let's see them. Supps., herbs,ph/ps,etc......

 

[hypo]

Hmmm, I'll state the obvious: two methyls!

 

[WhutEvr]

Arginine and any ED product.
Blood pressure can drop too low.

Noticable side - very stiff neck, and dull ache at base of skull.

 

[DieTrying]

Two of the best supps ever made: creatine and caffeine.

 

[Redeemer]

What's an ED product?

Arginine and any ED product.
Blood pressure can drop too low.

Noticable side - very stiff neck, and dull ache at base of skull.

 

[Blown]

erectile disfunction, such as viagra, cialis, levitra.

 

[utk1976]

Hmmm, I'll state the obvious: two methyls!

Not obvious to me, although I would readily acknowledge that many people feel this way. Do you have a basis for the assertion?

 

[WhutEvr]

Manufacturers of methyls even have this printed on their products.

 

[custom]

Yohimbine and Tyramine.

 

[Mass_69]

Yohimbine and Tyramine.

Matt,

Does this effect blood pressure? I wasn't sure the reason you were referring to, but it's good to know if these 2 are a potential problem, as I have been using Xtreme Formulations' Chizeled, which contains both. Have noticed more frequent headaches, just figured it was the tyramine itself.

 

[UNDERTAKER]

I have nothing to add, I just wanna say that this thread is an excellent idea. Good job Mach

 

[custom]

Matt,

Does this effect blood pressure? I wasn't sure the reason you were referring to, but it's good to know if these 2 are a potential problem, as I have been using Xtreme Formulations' Chizeled, which contains both. Have noticed more frequent headaches, just figured it was the tyramine itself.

I thought I remember Loki posting something on it, but it alludes me at the moment. I believe its the same reason you;re not supposed to eat cheese with yohimbine...I'll dig around and find out exactly what the probelm is called.

 

[turkish]

Two of the best supps ever made: creatine and caffeine.

What's the reasoning behind this one?

I'll start cutting soon and I'll be taking both EC and CEE. Shouldn't I?

 

[custom]

Here' a thread where they argue about it.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209869&highlight=cheese+yohimbe

 

[Max32]

I thought I remember Loki posting something on it, but it alludes me at the moment. I believe its the same reason you;re not supposed to eat cheese with yohimbine...I'll dig around and find out exactly what the probelm is called.

I do not think this applies to alpha-yohimbien though (HEAT)

 

[custom]

No, it does not. They say the alpha analogue does not cause the same problem.

 

[whunterx]

creatine and caffeine ? really ? uh-oh. did'nt know that...why ?

 

[buffb2]

What's the reasoning behind this one?

I'll start cutting soon and I'll be taking both EC and CEE. Shouldn't I?

i wouldnt do this. Ephedra is know to get the water out. Creatine is known to
get the water in. Also on my cre ethyl thunder it says not to use with a
product that contains ephedra

 

[DieTrying]

Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading.
Vandenberghe K, Gillis N, Van Leemputte M, Van Hecke P, Vanstapel F, Hespel P.

Faculty of Physical Education and Physiotherapy, Department of Kinesiology, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Belgium.

This study aimed to compare the effects of oral creatine (Cr) supplementation with creatine supplementation in combination with caffeine (Cr+C) on muscle phosphocreatine (PCr) level and performance in healthy male volunteers (n = 9). Before and after 6 days of placebo, Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1), or Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1) + C (5 mg x kg-1 x day-1) supplementation, 31P-nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy of the gastrocnemius muscle and a maximal intermittent exercise fatigue test of the knee extensors on an isokinetic dynamometer were performed. The exercise consisted of three consecutive maximal isometric contractions and three interval series of 90, 80, and 50 maximal voluntary contractions performed with a rest interval of 2 min between the series. Muscle ATP concentration remained constant over the three experimental conditions. Cr and Cr+C increased (P < 0.05) muscle PCr concentration by 4-6%. Dynamic torque production, however, was increased by 10-23% (P < 0.05) by Cr but was not changed by Cr+C. Torque improvement during Cr was most prominent immediately after the 2-min rest between the exercise bouts. The data show that Cr supplementation elevates muscle PCr concentration and markedly improves performance during intense intermittent exercise. This ergogenic effect, however, is completely eliminated by caffeine intake.

 

[noctorum]

DNP and diuretics.

 

[Bigfishy]

Caffeine is ergogenic after supplementation of oral creatine monohydrate.
Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 34(11):1785-1792, November 2002.
DOHERTY, MIKE; SMITH, PAUL M.; RICHARD DAVISON, R. C.; HUGHES, MICHAEL G.


Abstract:
DOHERTY, M., P. M. SMITH, R. C. R. DAVISON, and M. G. HUGHES. Caffeine is ergogenic after supplementation of oral creatine monohydrate. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 34, No. 11, pp. 1785-1792, 2002.

Purpose: The purpose of this investigation was to assess the acute effects of caffeine ingestion on short-term, high-intensity exercise (ST) after a period of oral creatine supplementation and caffeine abstinence.

Methods: Fourteen trained male subjects performed treadmill running to volitional exhaustion (Tlim) at an exercise intensity equivalent to 125% [latin capital V with dot above]O2max. Three trials were performed, one before 6 d of creatine loading (0.3 g[middle dot]kg-1[middle dot]d-1; baseline), and two further trials after the loading period. One hour before the postloading trials, caffeine (5 mg[middle dot]kg-1) or placebo was orally ingested in a cross-over, double-blind fashion. Four measurements of rating of perceived exertion were taken, one every 30 s, during the first 120 s of the exercise. Blood samples were assayed for lactate, glucose, potassium, and catecholamines, immediately before and after exercise.

Results: Body mass increased (P < 0.05) over the creatine supplementation period, and this increase was maintained for both caffeine and placebo trials. There was no increase in the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit between trials; however, total [latin capital V with dot above]O2 was significantly increased in the caffeine trial in comparison with the placebo trial (13.35 +/- 3.89 L vs 11.67 +/- 3.61 L). In addition, caffeine Tlim (222.1 +/- 48.9 s) was significantly greater (P < 0.05) than both baseline (200.8 +/- 33.4 s) and placebo (198.3 +/- 45.4 s) Tlim. RPE was also lower at 90 s in the caffeine treatment (13.8 +/- 1.8 RPE points) in comparison with baseline (14.6 +/- 1.9 RPE points).

Conclusion: As indicated by a greater Tlim, acute caffeine ingestion was found to be ergogenic after 6-d of creatine supplementation and caffeine abstinence.

(C) 2002 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.

​

 

[Bigfishy]

I personally am not quite sure if this is true or not. Over the years i have used creatine with and without caffine and have noticed no difference. I also wonder if this is true, then would Methylxanthines have the same nulling effect on creatine?

 

[Syr]

This is not a well known advice: Citrulline malate and Taurine.
Taurine will counter some of the benefits. Have a few hours between the two.

 

[meathead1987]

Thought it was cornosine boosters(Beta alanine/histidine) and taurine as carnosine and taurine use the same AA transporter.

 

[meathead1987]

A small amount(75mg) caffeine increases creatine uptake, and as long as you drink adequate liquids even a larger dose of caffeine wont impact it to a noticable degree.

 

[SJA]

Thought it was cornosine boosters(Beta alanine/histidine) and taurine as carnosine and taurine use the same AA transporter.

I'd like to know if it is this or the latter. This sounds more like it to me....maybe a search over at AL would pull this up. :think:

 

[x_muscle]

ZMA and calcium

 

[guyfromkop]

then why does custom sell both together in it's pump stack? citruline malate and taurine that is

 

[BodyWizard]

Anyone know of any interactions between St. John's Wort & the usual bodybuilding suspects - I mean, supplements?

 

[John6]

DNP and diuretics.

:goodpost:

 

[meathead1987]

Anyone know of any interactions between St. John's Wort & the usual bodybuilding suspects - I mean, supplements?

Dont stack it with methyls. It increases cytoxhrome p450. Thats the enzyme that GF juice decreases.

 

[milwood]

A small amount(75mg) caffeine increases creatine uptake, and as long as you drink adequate liquids even a larger dose of caffeine wont impact it to a noticable degree.

studies say differently. I'd separate the 2. Use caff pre-w/o and ceratine post-w/o.

 

[meathead1987]

http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8332&highlight=creatine+and+caffeine

I also remember a study showing that 75mg caffeine increased creatine uptake but now I cant seem to find it.

 

[Mass_69]

Here' a thread where they argue about it.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209869&highlight=cheese+yohimbe

:thumbsup: Thanks Custom.

 

[Mass_69]

This is not a well known advice: Citrulline malate and Taurine.
Taurine will counter some of the benefits. Have a few hours between the two.

Doh! I've been taking a combo (CEE+Citrulline+Taurine+Tyrosine) I mixed together of bulk powders for pre-workout...

 

[meathead1987]

Citrulline + taurine is fine. Its the carnosine boosters that interact.

 

[Mass_69]

Anyone know of any interactions between St. John's Wort & the usual bodybuilding suspects - I mean, supplements?

I do recall reading something years ago about bad interactions between SJW & ephedra alkaloids, but I do not recall the exact reason why...

 

[milwood]

Doh! I've been taking a combo (CEE+Citrulline+Taurine+Tyrosine) I mixed together of bulk powders for pre-workout...

You won't have a major loss in this, but in the future, just space them out. That's good advice from Syr. Maximize the benefits. Thing is, we (collectively) take such huge (bulk) amounts of these things (compared to any normal people), we get outstanding benefits no matter what. In fact, most of us take so much (of some things), that we can't really utilize all of it, and it (the extra) gets flushed out (down the toilet, basically). Good thing most of this stuff is non-toxic, but it does again suggest that we need to always drink a ton of H2O.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Arginine and any ED product.
Blood pressure can drop too low.

Noticable side - very stiff neck, and dull ache at base of skull.

So if I use an NO2 supplement with Arginine - and decide to take some Viagra or Cialis, I'm in for an unpleasant surprise?

 

[milwood]

So if I use an NO2 supplement with Arginine - and decide to take some Viagra or Cialis, I'm in for an unpleasant surprise?

Yeah, those in the know, please enlighten us. (BTW, this is an excellent thread as someone stated, because of the good info shared/educational nature of it).

I have used AAKG at the same time as some of the ED supps, and found no adverse reactions as of yet. I'd like to know more, though, 'cause if there is an issue, I won't.

Another combo someone recently brought up was niacin and something else. I can't remember what for the life of me, so someone please fill us in!

 

[joecski]

So if I use an NO2 supplement with Arginine - and decide to take some Viagra or Cialis, I'm in for an unpleasant surprise?

I wouldn't chance it. Another dangerous one to look out for with Viagra and Cialis is ephedrine. I had no idea this was a bad combo until I almost fell over with my heart racing a million miles a minute from the combo. At first I didn't even know what had caused my little episode, but then I found out that ephedrine and Cialis don't play well together. Very scary at the time.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Thanks for that information. I bet this will be a comon occurance now that Ephedra is back on the market..

So, anyway.. I was planning on taking NO2 and a few other supplements along with PCT.. In the event that I'm in need of Viagra or Cialis, should I avoid the NO2 altogether? Or is there a way to tip-toe around it and assume the Wife won't be horny on such and such day/night?!

 

[milwood]

I wouldn't chance it. Another dangerous one to look out for with Viagra and Cialis is ephedrine. I had no idea this was a bad combo until I almost fell over with my heart racing a million miles a minute from the combo. At first I didn't even know what had caused my little episode, but then I found out that ephedrine and Cialis don't play well together. Very scary at the time.

wow! I wonder if clen has any potential problems/interactions with the ED stuff???

 

[Syr]

Citrulline + taurine is fine. Its the carnosine boosters that interact.

I gotta find the thead on AL board and recheck it (and post the link too).

 

[z28man]

I think I read this a long time ago, but arent you supposed to avoid fish oil (all polyunsaturateds for that matter) while on CLA? Last time I took CLA I had great results with the same diet, etc. But this time around Ive been taking fish oil for joint problems Ive been having along with all the other good crap about fish oil and lots of sunflower seeds (convenient for work). Maybe thats why Im seeing zero in the way of fat loss.

 

[meathead1987]

Fish oil is way superior to CLA.

 

[milwood]

I think I read this a long time ago, but arent you supposed to avoid fish oil (all polyunsaturateds for that matter) while on CLA? Last time I took CLA I had great results with the same diet, etc. But this time around Ive been taking fish oil for joint problems Ive been having along with all the other good crap about fish oil and lots of sunflower seeds (convenient for work). Maybe thats why Im seeing zero in the way of fat loss.

I think fish oil and CLA are fine. Anybody know what NOT to combine with niacin?

 

[Mach .78]

I have nothing to add, I just wanna say that this thread is an excellent idea. Good job Mach

Hey thanks Undertaker. I go away for a couple days and come back to some good reading. Everybody is digging out their notes.

How do you get the persons name in the quote when you quote them? Never have done it right.

 

[Beau]

Arginine and Lysine - the counter balance each other.

 

[milwood]

Arginine and Lysine - the counter balance each other.

It's my understanding that these are combined for potential GH releasing properties, as Arg + Orinthine was originally used.