Letrone or Exotherm to Stack with Testruction

[anthon88]

Hey guys,

I am planning a stack for the spring and stocking up now. I decided I definitely wanted to try Evomuse Testruction because anything Matt makes is golden. After reading up on it, I saw that even though it is natural, it is extremely potent and unlike others in it's category, and that some users experienced estro sides and recommended an AI.

After some more research, I found that people really enjoyed BLR Letrone with their Testruction. I was about to pull the trigger and then saw some recommendations for Testruction with Exotherm which is a topical with 2 AIs and 2 fat burners that is getting awesome reviews. I will be cutting during this run so am leaning towards that combo; however, I am wondering if Letrone would be better AI wise?

So pretty much, should I use:

Testruction - Letrone
Testruction - Exotherm
Testruction - Letrone and Exotherm but reduced dose of Letrone?

I am not apposed to all 3 but would appreciate recommendations on how to successfully and safely do that.

Am also wondering if I should start the AI at the same time, or add it in a few weeks into my Testruction run?

I appreciate the feedback guys!

 

[HIT4ME]

What are your goals? Letrone is a stronger AI, Exotherm is more of a fat burner. I haven't used Letrone, but do like Exotherm. But from a strictly "anabolic" standpoint, if fat loss isn't your main goal - Letrone will be stronger.

 

[anthon88]

What are your goals? Letrone is a stronger AI, Exotherm is more of a fat burner. I haven't used Letrone, but do like Exotherm. But from a strictly "anabolic" standpoint, if fat loss isn't your main goal - Letrone will be stronger.

Wow thanks for the fast response. Fat loss is going to the main goal however I am really looking to get the most out of Testruction and also keep any estro sides at bay. Was just curious if the AI side of exotherm would be enough.

 

[HIT4ME]

It MAY be - but another possible combo would be to do Testruction/Letrone and then just do ET by itself after your run - it will be a weaker AI and should help your body adjust a little more slowly back to normal...just a theory.

 

[anthon88]

It MAY be - but another possible combo would be to do Testruction/Letrone and then just do ET by itself after your run - it will be a weaker AI and should help your body adjust a little more slowly back to normal...just a theory.

That sounds pretty good. But if I did 8 weeks testruction/letrone and then went into a bottle of exotherm, would that be too long on an AI?

 

[HIT4ME]

That sounds pretty good. But if I did 8 weeks testruction/letrone and then went into a bottle of exotherm, would that be too long on an AI?

Not 100% sure that it follows the label recommendations, but 12 weeks with 8 being Letrone and 4 being Exotherm really doesn't seem like an issue in my eyes. If you are concerned about cycle length, you could stagger - 4 weeks Testruction, 4 weeks Testruction/Letrone, 4 weeks of Exotherm - but I think that is overly cautious in my eye.

I've run Exotherm in most of my PCTs and there are people on here I believe who have run AI's for much longer periods. If it were me (and I am not always "safe") - I would just do letrone/testruction for 8 weeks and then use Exotherm for 4 after that.

 

[anthon88]

Not 100% sure that it follows the label recommendations, but 12 weeks with 8 being Letrone and 4 being Exotherm really doesn't seem like an issue in my eyes. If you are concerned about cycle length, you could stagger - 4 weeks Testruction, 4 weeks Testruction/Letrone, 4 weeks of Exotherm - but I think that is overly cautious in my eye.

I've run Exotherm in most of my PCTs and there are people on here I believe who have run AI's for much longer periods. If it were me (and I am not always "safe") - I would just do letrone/testruction for 8 weeks and then use Exotherm for 4 after that.

This looks pretty solid and like you said it shouldn't cause any issues. I'll probably end up running it like that. I'll be sure to post my results.

Thanks again!

 

[LeanEngineer]

This looks pretty solid and like you said it shouldn't cause any issues. I'll probably end up running it like that. I'll be sure to post my results.

Thanks again!

Sweet! in for the results

 

[210LBS]

What kind of estro sides are we talking about? I'd be interested to see how this goes too. This is an expensive natty cycle you're running. $150-200? How are you dosing the Letrone? 1 pill per day?

 

[anthon88]

Sweet! in for the results

Thanks man! Maybe I will even log it...the added motivation of doing a log is always helpful...especially during a cut.

 

[anthon88]

What kind of estro sides are we talking about? I'd be interested to see how this goes too. This is an expensive natty cycle you're running. $150-200? How are you dosing the Letrone? 1 pill per day?

I've only ever run natty supps and yeah they can get pricey haha Honestly, I never really experienced any estro sides with anything I've taken...dry joints once and a while when taking erase/erase pro but then again that is from lowering estro too much. From my reading on Testruction I saw some people mention estro sides because the product is potent. One guy mentioned water retention and nipple sensitivity. Things like water retention don't scare me, obviously I do not want it but it isn't something criticial, but things like nipple sensitivity do worry me. I do not think I am predisposed to gyno since I never had any issues in the past, but it is better to be safe. From what I read about Letrone it seems like an awesome natty supp so I am excited to combine the two.

As far as dosing I am still trying to figure that out. I saw logs where people were only using 1 cap per day but most of those logs were running it solo. With testruction, I might want to take 2 letrone per day but then again, since I am following it with exotherm and extending the run to 12 weeks....maybe I should stick with 1? I am hoping some guys more knowledgeable than me can chime in on this.

 

[vujade]

Exotherm is equal to about 1 cap of Letrone.

Either would work with Teststruction depending on your goals.

 

[anthon88]

Exotherm is equal to about 1 cap of Letrone.

Either would work with Teststruction depending on your goals.

Good info, thanks. I guess I could always go 8 weeks of exotherm and testruction. Cutting will be the main priority.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I don't need an AI when taking up to 330mg of 4-AD, or in PCT with Clomid.

Soooo highly doubtful that you need an "AI" for natty plants.

 

[anthon88]

I don't need an AI when taking up to 330mg of 4-AD, or in PCT with Clomid.

Soooo highly doubtful that you need an "AI" for natty plants.

It was recommended by Matt to be safe. Everything he makes is awesome so I wouldn't doubt that some users might experience estro sides from it being potent. Either way Letrone and Exotherm are getting good feedback so regardless of "needing an AI or not," it should still make an awesome natty stack.

 

[vujade]

I don't need an AI when taking up to 330mg of 4-AD, or in PCT with Clomid.

Soooo highly doubtful that you need an "AI" for natty plants.

thats really not a logical answer. Just because you don't need something does not mean everyone's
body chemistry reacts the same way to their hormones being raised naturally or otherwise.

I've ran 2 test cycle and neither time did I need an AI. Will this work for everyone one..? No...!

Some people have less Aromatase then others naturally. So experience less estrogen conversion.

We've all seen countless threads on the forums of guys that experience estrogen sides from Natty products.

 

[HIT4ME]

I don't need an AI when taking up to 330mg of 4-AD, or in PCT with Clomid.

Soooo highly doubtful that you need an "AI" for natty plants.

I actually MOSTLY agree with you on this. In most cases, it probably isn't necessary when using "natty" products. But AI's aren't always used because they HAVE to be used. They do have effects on their own...which was more where I was thinking to begin with.

And, as Vujade pointed out, some people are going to be sensitive to testosterone increases being converted to estrogen, so yeah - it's a safety precaution in a way....but one that I wouldn't usually worry about unless I had a history of knowing I was sensitive.

 

[vujade]

And also, as HIT4ME pointed out, using an AI also have other benefits, like drying you out,
helping you get more cut up, and also can create a feedback loop where your body produces
more testosterone naturally to counter the lowering of the estrogen.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

....and killing your gains and libido and lipids and joints if pushed below normal. So if he doesn't *know* his E2 level now, *and* a natty "AI" actually works when swallowed by male, human, athlete's - he has a 50/50 chance of screwing up his goals. I'd personally rather be high (without growing tits) than low. Look at Tren studies in cattle when Estrogen was added, versus when it wasn't. There's also a Human study comparing TRT with and without an AI, and the 'No AI' group faired better.

And *if* a natty Test Booster works in healthy male athletes at all, it will boost total T by a couple hundred points max. A couple hundred points is not going to require anything extra, over and above anyone else in the physiological range. If it *did*, every 16 year old would be issued an Aromasin script along with his driver's license. But hey, it's his money. If it makes him feel better to have it - I know there is an irrational fear of Estrogen in this community.

 

[Woody]

TOG do you drink soy milk. Your estrogen is sky high

 

[ucheoma]

Making hormonal decisions based on what I call chatter probably not the way to go.

Someone recommends an AI for their product because its that potent. What is the mechanism for the E increase if not extreme levels of test increase verging on the upper boundary or suphraphysiological levels where test converts to significant increases in E? Is a natty product going to deliver this level of test increase? Highly doubtful! But the seed has been planted that the product is potent so we think it boots test correspondingly.

There were requests for bloodwork on the Testruction thread. You may have noticed these were never uploaded despite the owner promising to. So what do we go by? One or two people reporting nipple sensitivity but no idea or what their test or E levels actually were.

And here's a question. What if the product by some other mechanism is actually increasing E levels but not t levels? This means you're running the extra expense of AIs, But to what end? Saying you like a product because anything a particular person makes is golden seems a bit too faith based for me. But that's just me. I'm sceptical that way. Ha

 

[The_Old_Guy]

TOG do you drink soy milk. Your estrogen is sky high

No, but I put Dymatize Elite XT Vanilla in my coffee... so close enough I was almost 300lbs - a proverbial Estrogen Factory going by anecdote. I was at 210 about a year later - all without any "AI" use at all, save eating Broccoli. I would say if you don't have blood-work showing way out of whack E2, save your money - especially if you are only using OTC, plant based supplements. If you're *that* worried - put that money to better use and throw a bottle of Exemestane in your cupboard - odds are, you'll never need it.

 

[210LBS]

No, but I put Dymatize Elite XT Vanilla in my coffee... so close enough I was almost 300lbs - a proverbial Estrogen Factory going by anecdote. I was at 210 about a year later - all without any "AI" use at all, save eating Broccoli. I would say if you don't have blood-work showing way out of whack E2, save your money - especially if you are only using OTC, plant based supplements. If you're *that* worried - put that money to better use and throw a bottle of Exemestane in your cupboard - odds are, you'll never need it.

Keeping Exemestane on hand for a natty test booster? I'm a little wary that the CEO recommended an AI for this product to be safe though.

 

[Volvo140G]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-deals/286792-halloween-sales-nutriverse.html

BLR Products are 20% off for 3 more days.... just sayin

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Keeping Exemestane on hand for a natty test booster? I'm a little wary that the CEO recommended an AI for this product to be safe though.

Mostly tongue in cheek, that's how confident I am that he won't need it.

 

[anthon88]

Good discussion guys, that's why I posted here, to hear back from people who know their stuff.

The_Old_Guy, I don't have a big fear of estrogen haha. I was just really looking for an optimal natty stack. The 2 products were brought up together a few times so it seemed like a good idea. Also, if there was that small chance of estro sides, I figured I would be covered. What you said about lowering your E too much has me thinking though. I guess there is really no way to tell unless you get blood work? Either way, thanks for the help.

 

[anthon88]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-deals/286792-halloween-sales-nutriverse.html

BLR Products are 20% off for 3 more days.... just sayin

Haha nutriverse is one of my favorite stores. Great customer service.

 

[anthon88]

Making hormonal decisions based on what I call chatter probably not the way to go.

Someone recommends an AI for their product because its that potent. What is the mechanism for the E increase if not extreme levels of test increase verging on the upper boundary or suphraphysiological levels where test converts to significant increases in E? Is a natty product going to deliver this level of test increase? Highly doubtful! But the seed has been planted that the product is potent so we think it boots test correspondingly.

There were requests for bloodwork on the Testruction thread. You may have noticed these were never uploaded despite the owner promising to. So what do we go by? One or two people reporting nipple sensitivity but no idea or where their test levels were.

And here's a question. What if the product by some other mechanism is actually increasing E levels but not t levels? This means you're running the extra expense of AIs, But to what end? Saying you like a product because anything a particular person makes is golden seems a bit too faith based for me. But that's just me. I'm sceptical that way. Ha

Solid advice man. I always do my own research in addition to asking around the forums. Either way I like hearing back from experienced lifters, supplement users, and guys who have run gear.

And im usually right with you on the whole too much faith thing but I honestly have loved everything I have ever used by Matt. Regardless, after using the product I will give it an honest review. I think I might even log it to keep myself honest and add additional motivation to shred up. Can't be posting half ass workouts on this forum!

 

[Ricky10]

TOG do you drink soy milk. Your estrogen is sky high

Indeed..in this day and age, we are exposed to xenoestrogens and phytoestrogens up the *ss. It is wise to at least take something mild like I3C or DIM on a regular basis to combat this. Some people may need supplements that are stronger. In regards to people who may question the efficacy of Testruction due to the fact that it is plant based; one must remember that most pharmaceuticals if not all are essentially derived from plants.