IF Supplementation

[The_Old_Guy]

Trying out Intermittent Fasting mainly for purported healthy aspects of it/boredom, vs any body-comp/performance angle. I go from 7PM to 11AM, and then eat at 11, 1, 4, and 7. I lifted for the first time fasted - and it was better than I thought it would be - actually bettered the last workout. Now, the night before was a massive carb cheat, so that may have had something to do with it - we'll see.

Anyway, what are some of you IF guys doing for Pre and Intra? Are *any calories* breaking the fast? Or is it like I heard somewhere, that you can get a couple hundred kcals in and still be considered "Fasted"? What about Leucine being Insulinogenic, etc...? Mainly wondering about the 100kcals in Triumph, which are from the Lecithin Granules probably, and the 100(?) kcals in Endure+ and maybe some protein - Yay or Nay?

I could push back the training til after food, but man - all that food (3100kcals) in such a short period has me always feeling WAY FULL! Couldn't imagine Deadlifting or Squatting

 

[KimChee75]

I'm doing IF mixed with cyclic ketogenic diet..16/8 or 18/6...I take BCAA prior to working out..if I don't have any BCAA a scoop of whey works ok too, all the guides I've read say it's not counted towards the fasting, and is essential to prevent too much muscle loss..I am also taking Fearns Lechitin Granules preworkout, I am not certain about this, but I've only been doing the PA a month now and haven't noticed fat loss slowing down from it..I also started an ARA run so that goes preworkout too..ugh..

 

[hsk]

Been doing IF for almost a year now.

Morning Stims:

200mg Caffeine
500mg GTE
250mg CDP Choline
10mg Noopept
50mg Forskolin

Training day pre WO:

10g BCAA
5g L-Citrulline
1.5g Agmatine

 

[The Solution]

Trying out Intermittent Fasting mainly for purported healthy aspects of it/boredom, vs any body-comp/performance angle. I go from 7PM to 11AM, and then eat at 11, 1, 4, and 7. I lifted for the first time fasted - and it was better than I thought it would be - actually bettered the last workout. Now, the night before was a massive carb cheat, so that may have had something to do with it - we'll see.

Anyway, what are some of you IF guys doing for Pre and Intra? Are *any calories* breaking the fast? Or is it like I heard somewhere, that you can get a couple hundred kcals in and still be considered "Fasted"? What about Leucine being Insulinogenic, etc...? Mainly wondering about the 100kcals in Triumph, which are from the Lecithin Granules probably, and the 100(?) kcals in Endure+ and maybe some protein - Yay or Nay?

I could push back the training til after food, but man - all that food (3100kcals) in such a short period has me always feeling WAY FULL! Couldn't imagine Deadlifting or Squatting

Did you even read the leangains guide?

Fasted training

Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase. Technically

having 100 calories from SL's would break the fast. Martin has claimed under 50 kcals would not be considered breaking the fast, but it still needs to be counted towards your daily totals.

Hell if your having 100 kcals from SL's you may as well eat half a tablespoon of PB which would break the fast as well. BCAA's do have kcals so yeah I would count those towards your daily intake, unless you take the same amount everyday and you are "Consistent" with your intake. If that is the case and you never counted it, then basically you have been using those kcals but never counting them so its a consistent factor.

Sample setup

11.30-12 AM or 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: Training
1 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal of the day).

* No calories are to be ingested during the fasted phase, though coffee, calorie free sweeteners, diet soda and sugar free gum are ok (even though they might contain trace amount of calories). A tiny splash of milk in your coffee won’t affect anything either (½-1 teaspoon of milk per cup at the most - use sparingly and sensibly if you drink a lot of coffee). Neither will sugar free gum in moderation (~20 g).

For fasted training, BCAA or an essential amino acid mixture is highly recommended. However, if this feels like too much micromanaging or simply questionable from an economic standpoint, you could also make due with some whey protein. The importance of protein intake prior to fasted training is outlined in this and this post.

There are 2 links on the webpage to lead you here:
http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fasted-training-boosts-muscle-growth.html
http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/pre-workout-protein-boosts-metabolism.html

 

[john.patterson]

I think using Tr1umph would be considered breaking the fast. When I was doing IF, I would use a stimmed preworkout and Powermax XT before training, and then drink some BCAA's intra. I feel like the stims hit much harder when you're fasted, which is nice. Yohimbine is great to incorporate if you're cutting too.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Did you even read the leangains guide?

Heck no man I didn't think I'd need an advanced degree in astro-physics, just to pick up some metal on an empty tummy

Thanks for the info though. I think I'm going to just make stuff easy by backing my previous evening's meal up enough, to break the fast with Triumph, some protein, and a can of Beets.

 

[Misfit28]

I recently started IF again, and although the amount of food can be a bit gut-busting on workout days I forgot how much I enjoy fasted training.

 

[kisaj]

I follow a similar eating schedule, 7pm-11am and usually get my workout in around 10am. There are no calories at all during the fast and generally I will consume around 1500-2000 calories immediately after that workout. I've been doing this for about 2 years and it fits so well, but I'd be lying if I said there aren't squat days that my thought is on a plate of smothered eggs and biscuits.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Yeah, like I said, I'm not after (or completely sold) on some magical advantage of fasted training - but fasting at *some point* has shown life extension/health benefits. I figure 188kcals from the Triumph and Beets, while no longer being "fasted" - isn't a lot of energy and almost as good. And I will have done 16hrs fasting, just not training 100% that way.

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[Misfit28]

Yeah, like I said, I'm not after (or completely sold) on some magical advantage of fasted training - but fasting at *some point* has shown life extension/health benefits. I figure 188kcals from the Triumph and Beets, while no longer being "fasted" - isn't a lot of energy and almost as good. And I will have done 16hrs fasting, just not training 100% that way.

Thanks for all the replies!

Exactly. I use IF not for any purported fat loss benefits, but as a way to keep my mind off of hunger, and add more dietary compliance by allowing less time to overeat. I'll admit though, I seem to benefit from fasting's possible anti-inflammatory aspect as my Achilles tendons seem to be a bit less inflamed since is started it again. Totally anecdotal, I'll admit.

 

[machinehead]

When I started IF 5 or 6 years ago, I did not change my macros. I did not train fasted but my numbers exploded. It was pure glycogen strength from the improved insulin sensitivity.

Now I train before my first meal but not always fasted. I like having 20-40g of carbs sometimes. It does not matter if my fast decreases by 1 hour by doing this. I get faster fat loss when doing HIIT after weights when taking in carbs anyway. The biggest benefit from training when I do now is to not wait 4 hours for stomach to get light (I hate heavy stomach at the gym) and not deal with the evening crowd but the latter does not apply to you

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I seem to benefit from fasting's possible anti-inflammatory aspect as my Achilles tendons seem to be a bit less inflamed since is started it again. Totally anecdotal, I'll admit.

Man O Man will I be able to tell you if fasting fixes Achilles Tendons For some reason, mine have been ON FIRE for the last year or so. I can totally do anything I want - they aren't felt at all during the day/exercise. But if I pinch them between my fingers while laying down - OWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!! (and the left is worse than the right). I thought it was running, but that ain't it, as I stopped. No idea of the cause (other than age). I just took 12 days off and only walked every day - no improvement. BPC-157 didn't even do anything.

 

[Misfit28]

Man O Man will I be able to tell you if fasting fixes Achilles Tendons For some reason, mine have been ON FIRE for the last year or so. I can totally do anything I want - they aren't felt at all during the day/exercise. But if I pinch them between my fingers while laying down - OWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!! (and the left is worse than the right). I thought it was running, but that ain't it, as I stopped. No idea of the cause (other than age). I just took 12 days off and only walked every day - no improvement. BPC-157 didn't even do anything.

Yeah, mine are massive spurs on each heel, right where the tendon attaches to the heel bone. I've been trying to stretch them as much as possible, but man they hurt sometimes. I haven't done squats much because of them, started back doing Front Squats a few weeks back and that seems to be better than back squats for me.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Yeah, mine are massive spurs on each heel, right where the tendon attaches to the heel bone. I've been trying to stretch them as much as possible, but man they hurt sometimes. I haven't done squats much because of them, started back doing Front Squats a few weeks back and that seems to be better than back squats for me.

Mine are right in the middle, between the two attachment points. No growths or anything - they feel normal. I can also get the pain to go away by massaging them for about 5mins - after that, they are pain free - but it comes back.

 

[bb333]

I still have to experience the workout on an empty stomach, I always read positive feedback!
IF I follow for about three months, and now and never come back. I love IF 16-8.

 

[ma70]

Been on IF for 5 years now. Enjoy your Soy Lecithin Granules pre-workout. Sure, it breaks the fast as a technicality, but you can either account for that with your window, and honestly, 8/16 isn't the only window. I've done 8-16, 9-15, 12-12, 5/2, and sometime in the future, Alternate Day Fasting, but I can honestly say that my carb tolerance/insulin sensitivity has always been excellent from years of IF. For what it's worth, I've recently starting using Intra-EAA+Carbs instead of just BCAAs preworkout, as well as the SL granules/Tr1umph preworkout. I can still slam down carbs and not get fat (within reason of course).

 

[hsk]

Yes I have definitely noticed improved insulin sensitivity as well as improved carb tolerance. I also agree that the shortened feeding window helps me to keep my mind off food and allows less chance of overfeeding. I actually started IF while recovering from a major injury. I used it to keep myself from overeating calories as I knew I would be decreasing my activity level.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Cramming in all that food definitely (at maintenance at least) keeps me "not hungry" in the evening - my worst time. Can't wait to see how it feels at -1000kcals. I never am hungry in the AM either, so its working out great there too. Today is the second workout - last meal was at 6PM, so at 10AM it's Beets and Triumph w/1 scoop P, with Deadlifts at 10:30.

 

[ma70]

Cramming in all that food definitely (at maintenance at least) keeps me "not hungry" in the evening - my worst time. Can't wait to see how it feels at -1000kcals. I never am hungry in the AM either, so its working out great there too. Today is the second workout - last meal was at 6PM, so at 10AM it's Beets and Triumph w/1 scoop P, with Deadlifts at 10:30.

Arguably the best benefit of IF is hunger control among and convenience for me. Eating calories in a shortened window is so much more satisfying to me.

 

[hsk]

Arguably the best benefit of IF is hunger control among and convenience for me. Eating calories in a shortened window is so much more satisfying to me.

I definitely agree with the increased satisfaction part. I've never had a problem slamming 1000+ kcals per meal, even when I was younger. I've done some days where I pushed the fast as long as possible and only had one meal of 2700+ kcals. I am looking forward to this holiday season as I will be experimenting with one meal on those days with social events/dinners.

 

[ma70]

I definitely agree with the increased satisfaction part. I've never had a problem slamming 1000+ kcals per meal, even when I was younger. I've done some days where I pushed the fast as long as possible and only had one meal of 2700+ kcals. I am looking forward to this holiday season as I will be experimenting with one meal on those days with social events/dinners.

It's best during holiday season. I utilize a corny term coined by a popular website, known as the "Pulse Feast" which is basically a form of intermittent fasting in itself, and there's nothing like saving your entire maintenance caloric intake for one meal (Thanksgiving, Christmas, whatever you do). IF lets me live my life without being an IFBB pro that eats every 3 hours. Of course, this is an individual preference. I know people get annoyed by the IFers that act like their diet is the only way to live.

 

[hsk]

It's best during holiday season. I utilize a corny term coined by a popular website, known as the "Pulse Feast" which is basically a form of intermittent fasting in itself, and there's nothing like saving your entire maintenance caloric intake for one meal (Thanksgiving, Christmas, whatever you do). IF lets me live my life without being an IFBB pro that eats every 3 hours. Of course, this is an individual preference. I know people get annoyed by the IFers that act like their diet is the only way to live.

I agree. My life has been much more enjoyable since switching to IF. I have also noticed I am saving a lot of money on food as I have simplified my meals. Also I have recently begun pushing my window smaller and smaller and keeping my meals to 1-2 big meals. I have found that I respond well to this. Most days I am 18/6 now and occasionally 16/8.

 

[Piledahlaren]

I loooove IF! Alphamine(EU) + Yohimbine HCL + Amp Citrate , workouts are going great : )