Prescribe: GDA for Preworkout......

[KtchnChmst]

Lets here it guys. Give your favorite/trusted ingredient OR list of ingredients.
Looking to mimic insulin and DRIVE nutrients (aminos, glucose) into the muscle cells during training.

Peri-Workout-Nutrition looks like this.....
90min preworkout:
70g Whey Isolate
50g Carbs (cream of rice)

30min preworkout:
5g micronized creatine mono
5g hyrdomax
4g Beta Alanine
8g Citrulline
1g Agamatine

IntraWorkout:
35g BCAA/EAAs
75g HBCD
Electrolytes
44oz water

30min postworkout:
70g Protein (chicken or fish)
75g Carbs (white rice)

 

[dynamo]

GlycoLog currently is the most well dosed and formulated product on the market. Burn24 wasn't too bad but I think that is discontinued now? GlycoLog beats out Burn24 out though.

You could piece ingredients together but the price point on the GlycoLog is good (dig around) and well dosed.

 

[Driven2lift]

You do not need or even want most GDA products pre workout.

The workout itself accomplishes partitioning goals more effectively than any supplement comes close.

It may prove counter productive, limiting absorbed nutrients and more than likely also introducing antioxidants and anti-inflammatory potential into your peri-workout period.

I would re-think this, use a GDA with your largest meal instead.

 

[dynamo]

You do not need or even want most GDA products pre workout.

The workout itself accomplishes partitioning goals more effectively than any supplement comes close.

It may prove counter productive, limiting absorbed nutrients and more than likely also introducing antioxidants and anti-inflammatory potential into your peri-workout period.

I would re-think this, use a GDA with your largest meal instead.

May not need but I would not say that one would definitively not want a GDA pre workout. Anti-inflammatory potential to the extent that it hinders adaptation? Have you bothered to look into these ingredients? Limiting absorbed nutrients? Most of these ingredients are either upregulating release of insuling, mimicking insulin, and/or upregulating GLUT4. All these things would drive more nutrients into cells.

 

[Driven2lift]

^ingredients of what...
Name a product

Most of them contain these. And you're wasting $$$ fast if you think popping pills will match the GLUT-4 allocation from exersize

Insulin gets blunted, hard. Trying to play with its pathways before a lift is senseless IMO.

And yes, you can and may blunt hypertrophy process' if you are referring to one of the many GDA products containing anti-inflammatory / antioxidant potential




A GDA can perhaps accurately be described as something that tries to get your body into the state it exists during exercise. (And many fall very short on that goal)

If you're already exercising, save your $

 

[dynamo]

^ingredients of what...
Name a product

Most of them contain these. And you're wasting $$$ fast if you think popping pills will match the GLUT-4 allocation from exersize

Insulin gets blunted, hard. Trying to play with its pathways before a lift is senseless IMO.

And yes, you can and may blunt hypertrophy process' if you are referring to one if the many GDA products containing anti-inflammatory / antioxidant potential




A GDA can perhaps accurately be described as something that tries to get your body into the state it exists during exercise. (And many fall very short on that goal)

If you're already exercising, save your $

Berberine
Cinnamon extract
RALA
Gymnema Sylvestre
Chromium

Those are basically your main GDA ingredients.

What kind of nutty GDAs are you thinking of?

I'm also not arguing that periworkout time may not be the most efficient time to use one, but claiming that it will hinder adaptation? Seriously, what nutty products are you thinking of?

 

[Driven2lift]

Assumed you meant a complete GDA product and not bulk options, at that point you could use a few wisely if you wished

The R-ALA should be far from your lift though. It can absolutely hinder adaptations.

Iirc berberine antagonizes cAMP and works against several other ingredients that raise it, such as forskolin

^that is confirmed only in vitro, but evidence to the contrary of this does not exist

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20969954/

 

[Driven2lift]

.

What kind of nutty GDAs are you thinking of?

I'm also not arguing that periworkout time may not be the most efficient time to use one, but claiming that it will hinder adaptation? Seriously, what nutty products are you thinking of?

Please go read up on other GDA topics here.

Even ingredients you listed here can hinder hypertrophy.

Or just ignore me and do this, you'll still grow given a proper diet.
Because the diet and workout make or break it.




Regard this above any supplement claim:

During your lift you WANT oxidation and inflammation. You want breakdown.
First step of hypertrophy

 

[dynamo]

Assumed you meant a complete GDA product and not bulk options, at that point you could use a few wisely if you wished

The R-ALA should be far from your lift though IMO

Iirc berberine antagonizes cAMP and works against several other ingredients that raise it, such as forskolin

^that is confirmed only in vitro, but evidence to the contrary of this does not exist

The anti-oxidant properties of R-ALA is really a non-issue IMHO.

As for antagonizing cAMP and wishing to prevent the hindering of the use of something like forskolin, take the two away from each other (and to be perfectly honest, forskolin really has such modest/minute effects that I don't feel it's worth taking, it was pushed hard years ago and then again recently, if one wishes to use it I'm not going to hate on them though).

Please go read up on other GDA topics here.

Even ingredients you listed here can hinder hypertrophy.

Or just ignore me and do this, you'll still grow given a proper diet.
Because the diet and workout make or break it.




Regard this above any supplement claim:

During your lift you WANT oxidation and inflammation. You want breakdown.
First step of hypertrophy

What I listed don't hinder adaptation to a practical degree. Even your R-ALA comment was stretching.

 

[Driven2lift]

So if it lowers increases in cAMP, you're cool with it?

And the reduction of stress markers is a non-issue?


I'll leave you to your stack sir, your mind is made, best of luck

 

[dynamo]

So if it lowers increases in cAMP, you're cool with it?

And the reduction of stress markers is a non-issue?


I'll leave you to your stack sir, your mind is made, best of luck

It's so negligible so yes, I am cool with it. Feel free to micromanage small details which are overall irrelevant in the practical sense though.

Pre, intra, and post workout I'm getting in 100+ grams of carbs alone. Using a GDA does actually help to a certain degree.

 

[Driven2lift]

My issue is that any benefit here, if it exists, would also be negligible

Certainly compared to a workout of any decent intensity.

You're also taking a lot pre/intra already I just don't see a need...

 

[dynamo]

My issue is that any benefit here, if it exists, would also be negligible

Certainly compared to a workout of any decent intensity.

Depends on the amount of carbs you're taking in tbh. If it's a modest amount, yeah, non-issue and skip the GDA. If you're going to be slamming down a nice bit of carbs periworkout, a GDA could be helpful.

 

[Driven2lift]

Could be, tag me in if you log it

 

[Rodja]

Intra workout nutrition and ergogenics belong in any nutritional scheme, but you don't need a GDA. That's called training and no GDA can touch the GLUT-4 activation of intense training.

 

[dynamo]

Could be, tag me in if you log it

No logging things, that is a waste of time, LoL. Since it adds about 20 minutes on to my workouts. :lmao:

 

[KtchnChmst]

So..........thats a NO im taking it on any GDAs preworkout?? Even as a single ingredient?
No R-ALA?
No Berberine?
No Gymnema?

 

[dynamo]

So..........thats a NO im taking it on any GDAs preworkout?? Even as a single ingredient?
No R-ALA?
No Berberine?
No Gymnema?

You can if you wish. Really would not hinder progress in any tangible and meaningful way. Can only be of assistance or at worse it does nothing.

 

[USPlabsRep]

You do not need or even want most GDA products pre workout.

The workout itself accomplishes partitioning goals more effectively than any supplement comes close.

It may prove counter productive, limiting absorbed nutrients and more than likely also introducing antioxidants and anti-inflammatory potential into your peri-workout period.

I would re-think this, use a GDA with your largest meal instead.

used with a higher carbohydrate meal 2-3 hours before exercise is ideal. The effects of exercise on glucose metabolism is obviously post exercise.

 

[Jiigzz]

May not need but I would not say that one would definitively not want a GDA pre workout. Anti-inflammatory potential to the extent that it hinders adaptation? Have you bothered to look into these ingredients? Limiting absorbed nutrients? Most of these ingredients are either upregulating release of insuling, mimicking insulin, and/or upregulating GLUT4. All these things would drive more nutrients into cells.

Anti oxidants can hinder adaptation, even in quantities we routinely ingest supplementally, so it's not infeasible that other products could do the same. Does it apply here? *shrug* it's a non issue for me concerning this, but blunting of adaptation can occur even with AO.

Plus many GDAs can hinder CHO absorption deoending on the ingredients used, and Glut4 translocation is increased significantly with exercise as a stimulus.

Insulin is not the driving force behind skeletal muscle fuel cell delivery durig exercise either, we increase the activity of non-insulin dependant mechanisms instead.

 

[KtchnChmst]

Thanks guys. Just looking to enhance the "shuttling" of the nutrients from my intra shake into the muscles.......similar to dosing Humalog preworkout.

 

[Jiigzz]

Thanks guys. Just looking to enhance the "shuttling" of the nutrients from my intra shake into the muscles.......similar to dosing Humalog preworkout.

Exercise will do that sufficiently on it's own

http://physrev.physiology.org/content/93/3/993.short

A short exert:

Under resting conditions, it is generally believed that glucose transport is the rate-limiting step for muscle glucose uptake, since GLUT1 expression is relatively low and the vast majority of muscle GLUT4 resides within intracellular storage sites, excluded from the sarcolemma and T-tubules. With exercise, skeletal muscle hyperemia, capillary recruitment, and GLUT4 translocation to the sarcolemma and T-tubules effectively remove delivery and transport as major barriers to glucose uptake, with glucose phosphorylation becoming potentially limiting, especially at high exercise intensities (156, 314).

From that exert, we can see transport becomes less of an issue (which is actually delivery into cells), and phosphorylation becomes the issue (the adding of a phosphate group to later the structure of the glucose molecule, which produces G6P).

 

[dynamo]

Anti oxidants can hinder adaptation, even in quantities we routinely ingest supplementally, so it's not infeasible that other products could do the same. Does it apply here? *shrug* it's a non issue for me concerning this, but blunting of adaptation can occur even with AO.

Plus many GDAs can hinder CHO absorption deoending on the ingredients used, and Glut4 translocation is increased significantly with exercise as a stimulus.

Insulin is not the driving force behind skeletal muscle fuel cell delivery durig exercise either, we increase the activity of non-insulin dependant mechanisms instead.

That's why I wanted to know what wacky GDA products driven2lift was referring to because it didn't really apply to the products and ingredients I've mentioned (in terms of hindering adaptation and nutrient absorption). I'm also familiar with inhibition of COX2 and what not hindering adaptation, but in the case of the ingredients I mentioned, it's really a non-issue.

Thanks guys. Just looking to enhance the "shuttling" of the nutrients from my intra shake into the muscles.......similar to dosing Humalog preworkout.

It's not going to come anywhere near or be similar to pinning insulin. For one thing, when you pin insulin without carbs, you can die.

 

[Driven2lift]

I genuinely only know of a single GDA (full product) that may not have potential associated negative impacts on adaptation.

I was not trying to say you can't grow anyways, you will.

But there is something to nit-pick at in almost every GDA, if you plan on pre-workout use.

I'm agreeing the scale is quite minor relative to all else involved, but I can't answer this thread's question without at least mentioning the negatives to be weighed

 

[georgetown]

Just take agmatine preworkout plus it will help with pumps

 

[The_Old_Guy]

GlycoLog currently is the most well dosed and formulated product on the market.

They use Cinnamon Cassia... the one that contains Coumarin ( linked to Cancer). If they cared about your health, they'd use Ceylon Cinnamon. Now, is the measily 250mg going to do anything? Who knows, but still...

 

[dynamo]

They use Cinnamon Cassia... the one that contains Coumarin ( linked to Cancer). If they cared about your health, they'd use Ceylon Cinnamon. Now, is the measily 250mg going to do anything? Who knows, but still...

Along the same lines, it seems to have possible chemopreventative use to treat cervical cancer... Can't link currently since I haven't hit 100 posts yet

 

[josun]

You do not need or even want most GDA products pre workout.

The workout itself accomplishes partitioning goals more effectively than any supplement comes close.

It may prove counter productive, limiting absorbed nutrients and more than likely also introducing antioxidants and anti-inflammatory potential into your peri-workout period.

I would re-think this, use a GDA with your largest meal instead.

Listen to this guy op. And u should check out agmatine it has some gda benefits

 

[dynamo]

Listen to this guy op. And u should check out agmatine it has some gda benefits

Did you just completely skip over where he stated that GDAs may interfere with nutrient absorption and adaptation? Those were the two points which were problematic and makes one scratch their heads.

 

[Driven2lift]

Agmatine is primarily an ergogenic

It has no known potential to block nutrients, and does not impede hypertrophy (used pre, it helps)

Some like using it before meals as well, at 500mg-1.5g

Like other Ergogens (creatine for example) it can and does help shuttle more nutrients to lean mass.

Want a real fun test? Win the lottery then buy enough TUDCA for effective GDA dosing...
#pipedream

 

[Jiigzz]

They use Cinnamon Cassia... the one that contains Coumarin ( linked to Cancer). If they cared about your health, they'd use Ceylon Cinnamon. Now, is the measily 250mg going to do anything? Who knows, but still...

Everything is linked to cancer if you look hard enough.

 

[USPlabsRep]

Everything is linked to cancer if you look hard enough.

some could argue the BB lifestyle leads to cancer or shorter life due to over-eating among other things...

 

[NewAgeMayan]

It's so negligible so yes, I am cool with it. Feel free to micromanage small details which are overall irrelevant in the practical sense though.

Pre, intra, and post workout I'm getting in 100+ grams of carbs alone. Using a GDA does actually help to a certain degree.

Havent seen you around here for a while, kissdadookie

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Havent seen you around here for a while, kissdadookie

Understandable, hes back. Its pretty slow day at work for him being isolated to only PHF and the four post made on it a day.

 

[Distilled Water]

You know What's really good post workout. Humalog :-D

 

[dynamo]

You know What's really good post workout. Humalog :-D

Of course Or pre.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Everything is linked to cancer if you look hard enough.

True, but with Ceylon easily available, why use it at all? Especially since a "GDA" seems to be one of those "take it all the time" supplements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coumarin#Toxicity_and_use_in_foods.2C_beverages.2C_cosmetics.2C_and_tobacco

European health agencies have warned against consuming high amounts of cassia bark, one of the four main species of cinnamon, because of its coumarin content.[27][28] According to the German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment (BFR), 1 kg of (cassia) cinnamon powder contains about 2.1 to 4.4 g of coumarin.[29] Powdered cassia cinnamon weighs 0.56 g/cm3,[30] so a kilogram of cassia cinnamon powder equals 362.29 teaspoons. One teaspoon of cassia cinnamon powder therefore contains 5.8 to 12.1 mg of coumarin, which may be above the tolerable daily intake value for smaller individuals.[29] However, the BFR only cautions against high daily intake of foods containing coumarin. Its report[29] specifically states that Ceylon cinnamon (Cinnamomum verum) contains "hardly any" coumarin.

 

[dynamo]

Please don't use GDAs as a daily "foundational" supplement. Please don't.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Please don't use GDAs as a daily "foundational" supplement. Please don't.

I don't use purpose built GDA's at all - don't believe they are needed. Too much fear about the body "making fat" out of glucose, IMO. I do use ACV and Ceylon for general health/tastes good in oatmeal though.

 

[dynamo]

I don't use purpose built GDA's at all - don't believe they are needed. Too much fear about the body "making fat" out of glucose, IMO. I do use ACV and Ceylon for general health/tastes good in oatmeal though.

All good. Was just pointing it out because I've seen way too many people taking them as if they were daily multi-v. lol

 

[USPlabsRep]

Please don't use GDAs as a daily "foundational" supplement. Please don't.

really a blanket statement, if someone is really glucose intolerant, its amazing. Not any GDA but berberine and corosolic.

 

[dynamo]

really a blanket statement, if someone is really glucose intolerant, its amazing. Not any GDA but berberine and corosolic.

Fair point.

 

[USPlabsRep]

All good. Was just pointing it out because I've seen way too many people taking them as if they were daily multi-v. lol

Most people shouldn't take the dosages in current Multivitamins daily....that was a blanket statement..

 

[dynamo]

Most people shouldn't take the dosages in current Multivitamins daily....that was a blanket statement..

Used it as an analogy but feel free to pick at it. Fair point though.

 

[USPlabsRep]

Fair point.

its also a great dieting strategy as it allows for less insulin and a return to baseline quicker...

that would be daily use but no longer than 6-8 weeks..

 

[USPlabsRep]

Used it as an analogy but feel free to pick at it. Fair point though.

I understood that...I wanted to make a multi vitamin comment and that was my opening..

1000% RDA of the wrong isomer or single vitamer of Vitamin A, is scary...and that's most Multi's....

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Havent seen you around here for a while, kissdadookie

I liked the guy - helped me out a ton.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I liked the guy - helped me out a ton.

Sure, dunno why he made new accnt though

 

[rtmilburn]

I understood that...I wanted to make a multi vitamin comment and that was my opening..

1000% RDA of the wrong isomer or single vitamer of Vitamin A, is scary...and that's most Multi's....

So true!! vit a and e in a typical vitamins will do more harm then good. As they use 1 isomer at way to high doses. Which depletes the levels of the other isomers, which are the isomers that are actually beneficial. Then they also includes vits and minerals that prevent absorption of other vits and minerals. Not to mention some include rediculous amounts of certian metals, that over time can cause serious side effects, if used daily

 

[USPlabsRep]

So true!! vit a and e in a typical vitamins will do more harm then good. As they use 1 isomer at way to high doses. Which depletes the levels of the other isomers, which are the isomers that are actually beneficial. Then they also includes vits and minerals that prevent absorption of other vits and minerals. Not to mention some include rediculous amounts of certian metals, that over time can cause serious side effects, if used daily

exactly, creates an imbalance and fat soluble so they accumulate ......, plus they all have Chromium for some reason.