Terrible sleep. Help me!

[habajaba]

Hey guys, I've struggled getting a good night's sleep for as long as I can remember. I typically wake up 4-5 times a night and in the morning I get up feeling like a train hit me. Whether I get 5 or 10 hours of sleep, I still feel like crap. My fitness band regularly shows 15-45 minutes of deep sleep. So I'm guessing that I'm missing out on real REM.

Here's the problem. I've tried quite a few "sleep" supplements and nothing is working... I mean at all. I took max dose of Resurrect PM on an empty stomach and felt nothing. I even tried adding a couple alcoholic drinks on top of that. Still nothing above the normal for a couple drinks. Here's what I've tried lately -

IML Dream N Grow (Kratom, L-Theanine, GABA, Phellodendron Root, Mucuna Pruriens, 5-HTP, Melatonin)
ZMA + GABA + L-Tryptophan
Melatonin
Saffron
RC Resurrect PM (GABA, Mucuna Pruriens, L-Arginine)

When I took USPLabs Ultimate-T the very first time, I had about 2 weeks of AWESOME sleep and woke up feeling amazing and ready to rock. But then it wore off. Subsequent rounds of Ultimate-T no longer have this effect. I wonder how much KSM66 is in Ultimate-T and how much I could supplement on top of taking the normal doses of Ultimate-T. Anyone know?

Any suggestions?

 

[smith_69]

diet, stress and your bed. not really what you want to hear, but how are those 3?

how old are you?

 

[habajaba]

diet, stress and your bed. not really what you want to hear, but how are those 3?

how old are you?

Diet is 80% clean.
Stress is high, but who's isn't?
Bed is an expensive heavenly bed by Westin.
I am 36.

But again, this has been an issue for my entire life. Across times of fitness and fatness. From cheap mattresses to my current nice one.

 

[smith_69]

Diet is 80% clean.
Stress is high, but who's isn't?
Bed is an expensive heavenly bed by Westin.
I am 36.

But again, this has been an issue for my entire life. Across times of fitness and fatness. From cheap mattresses to my current nice one.

ok,

you have sleep issues with a Westin, then yes there is a problem. I have one in my house in Fl and will be bringing that up to Nj next month. Lay down and im out and wake up in the same exact spot. those who havent slept on a Westin, well you dont know what your missing. worth every penny.

what supps besides night time are you taking?

 

[LeanEngineer]

I've tried resurrect-pm and it knocked me out for like 12 hours and I never sleep past 7 hours. It could be something else you're taking like said above. if you're taking your pwo too late in the day that could be it or you may just have slept problems in general which you could see your doctor and try to get sleep aids.

 

[habajaba]

ok,

you have sleep issues with a Westin, then yes there is a problem. I have one in my house in Fl and will be bringing that up to Nj next month. Lay down and im out and wake up in the same exact spot. those who havent slept on a Westin, well you dont know what your missing. worth every penny.

what supps besides night time are you taking?

Let's see. I usually drink 2-4 cups of coffee in the morning, which gives me no noticeable boost, but I love the taste.

Around 11am, I take my PWO. That is the following -
USPLabs MaxREPS
2g COP
3G Beta Alanine
200mg Caffeine
25mg Ephedrine (BronkAid)

That's it for stimulants. That said, I've had the same issue before I ever started working out or using supps.

 

[Jiigzz]

Diet is 80% clean.
Stress is high, but who's isn't?
Bed is an expensive heavenly bed by Westin.
I am 36.

But again, this has been an issue for my entire life. Across times of fitness and fatness. From cheap mattresses to my current nice one.

Def advise seeing a doctor about this. Ive never had a sleep supplement help with sleep onset, just sleep quality and even then, some wind up making me feel worse. If you have no issue falling asleep and find quality an issue, then you may have underlying issues that you need to find the root cause of.

What ive found helps:

-Ashwagandha
-Growth Factor XT - took me ages to get it here but well worth it. Wouldn't recommend it as an all night every night, but definitely on days you know you need to get that deep sleep in.
-no caffeine after 3pm. I need to be in bed early so you can adjust that based in your sleep patterns, but anything after that and I feel it at night. I drink coffee like no tomorrow at 5am though lol.

recommend seeing someone, especially if quality of life is being affected.

 

[habajaba]

Def advise seeing a doctor about this. Ive never had a sleep supplement help with sleep onset, just sleep quality and even then, some wind up making me feel worse. If you have no issue falling asleep and find quality an issue, then you may have underlying issues that you need to find the root cause of.

What ive found helps:

-Ashwagandha
-Growth Factor XT - took me ages to get it here but well worth it. Wouldn't recommend it as an all night every night, but definitely on days you know you need to get that deep sleep in.
-no caffeine after 3pm. I need to be in bed early so you can adjust that based in your sleep patterns, but anything after that and I feel it at night. I drink coffee like no tomorrow at 5am though lol.

recommend seeing someone, especially if quality of life is being affected.

Thanks. My Caffeine is done by noon. Worst case 2-3pm. I can always fall asleep pretty much within 15-20min, but it's just never really restorative. Never has been. Never have asked the doc because they always just want to prescribe drugs.

 

[habajaba]

Oh, the other thing I should mention is that I always just kinda thought it was just how I was made. Until I took Ultimate-T the first time and felt what it was like to wake up easily and feel refreshed. That's when I started trying various supplements in hopes of getting that feeling back.

Also, I do suspect it's somewhat genetic as my mom and my daughter are similar. My wife and son, on the other hand, are the opposite. Up at 6:30am like a light switch.

 

[cobri66]

I just took Revivarant from APS last night..full scoop like label suggests is insane..I started with half scoop..that was insane..quarter scoop next time...but when it wore off I was alert and damn near euphoric all day..like I took Mesomorph...amazing stuff...and I slept like a baby btw

 

[habajaba]

I just took Revivarant from APS last night..full scoop like label suggests is insane..I started with half scoop..that was insane..quarter scoop next time...but when it wore off I was alert and damn near euphoric all day..like I took Mesomorph...amazing stuff...and I slept like a baby btw

Tempted, but the reviews on APS' site are enough to scare me a bit.

 

[cobri66]

If you use quarter dose..that seems to be magic dose from other users

 

[Rob1882]

I would def try and talk to your doctor about this maybe get in on a sleep test there are many things that could be causing you to get interrupted sleep, such as sleep apnea which can have some complications and health issues.

Any supplement or drug is just going to possibly mask the underlying issue if it even helps, even more so since you have mentioned this being an issue over a fairly extended period of time.

 

[Volvo140G]

Marijuana

 

[raul87]

Marijuana

I wish I wasn't randomed if not I would I have trouble falling asleep and getting REM sleep

 

[ManimalPatB]

Tempted, but the reviews on APS' site are enough to scare me a bit.

APS stuff is VERY high quality. Look at Mesomorph for example. It is a great pre workout with quality ingredients in it.

Revivarant G is fantastic from what Ive been told

 

[habajaba]

Marijuana

Appreciate the reply. I'm only looking for legal options.

 

[Volvo140G]

Appreciate the reply. I'm only looking for legal options.

No sweat man, it legal in some places tho

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Get bloods done for Pregnenolone/DHEA and cortisol, many studies say they have HUGE impacts on sleep QUALITY. Especially as you age they decline, you're 36 they start declining 25-30. The blood panels are cheap for those 3 and they do have a large impact. Also, Magnesium Biglycinate. Many people (especially people who use stims) Are deficient in magnesium. Take a liquid gel magnesium biglycinate(Not the aspartate version found in ZMA) pretty sure it'll work wonders.

 

[double s]

Are you waking to go to the bathroom or just waking up? I had a point where my body was going into nap mode and took me forever to fall back asleep...

 

[habajaba]

Are you waking to go to the bathroom or just waking up? I had a point where my body was going into nap mode and took me forever to fall back asleep...

I do go to the bathroom, but generally I wake up every 2 hours. For instance, last night I went to sleep at midnight, I was up at 2, 4, and 6 before dragging myself out of bed at 8:30. I don't go that often during the day, so I don't think that is the trigger. I do fall right back to sleep, but the frequency is enough to kill REM sleep I'm guessing.

 

[double s]

Might be time to visit a Dr, if some of these sleep aids are not working, may be much more..

 

[MidwestBeast]

I wouldn't even feel comfortable recommending a supplement based on what you've described.

Are you married/do you have a partner that knows if you snore/stop breathing?

I would have your doctor get you in to do a sleep study test. I had to do one for ruling out sleep apnea about 5 years ago. It's a pain in the sense that they strap you up with wires and tell you to sleep normally but obviously that's not your natural state. But anyway, it gives them a chance to look at multiple things as well as having someone monitoring you the entire time on a screen in addition to the read-outs.

I would start with that and if you haven't already, speak with your GP about your issues. If you have a good doctor, he/she will know what things to try and look at as far as blood testing (and if not, find yourself a good doctor -- that goes a LONG way).

 

[Woody]

ok,

you have sleep issues with a Westin, then yes there is a problem. I have one in my house in Fl and will be bringing that up to Nj next month. Lay down and im out and wake up in the same exact spot. those who havent slept on a Westin, well you dont know what your missing. worth every penny.

what supps besides night time are you taking?

They only have a pillow top? Not feeling $2200 for a pillow top. That's tempuredic money

OP - Try peeing more during the day so it doesn't wake you at night. Maybe limit your fluid intake, too. Hold your hand under hot water and pee your life away.

Other than that - see a doc for sure.

 

[habajaba]

I wouldn't even feel comfortable recommending a supplement based on what you've described.

Are you married/do you have a partner that knows if you snore/stop breathing?

I would have your doctor get you in to do a sleep study test. I had to do one for ruling out sleep apnea about 5 years ago. It's a pain in the sense that they strap you up with wires and tell you to sleep normally but obviously that's not your natural state. But anyway, it gives them a chance to look at multiple things as well as having someone monitoring you the entire time on a screen in addition to the read-outs.

I would start with that and if you haven't already, speak with your GP about your issues. If you have a good doctor, he/she will know what things to try and look at as far as blood testing (and if not, find yourself a good doctor -- that goes a LONG way).

Thanks. I am married and she confirms that I do not snore or stop breathing. Although she sounds like a chainsaw.

I don't have a GP because I don't have a lot of faith in doctors. That said, maybe it's worth a shot.

While I do say I get terrible sleep. I should be clear it's something that I've lived with my whole life. It sucks, but I clearly can function just fine. It's not like I have some major issue that just came out of nowhere. I suspect it's some minor imbalance.

Further, why I went down the supplement route is because Ultimate-T cured me for a couple weeks. I kinda just thought this was how I was made and had to live with it. But I'm guessing the KSM66 in it had some effect on me. I figured doctors will just drug me vs and the supplement would be a lesser of 2 evils.

 

[habajaba]

They only have a pillow top? Not feeling $2200 for a pillow top. That's tempuredic money

OP - Try peeing more during the day so it doesn't wake you at night. Maybe limit your fluid intake, too. Hold your hand under hot water and pee your life away.

Other than that - see a doc for sure.

Have you stayed in a Sheraton or Westin? For me, it is worth every penny. Different than TempurPedic.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Get bloods done for Pregnenolone/DHEA and cortisol, many studies say they have HUGE impacts on sleep QUALITY. Especially as you age they decline, you're 36 they start declining 25-30. The blood panels are cheap for those 3 and they do have a large impact. Also, Magnesium Biglycinate. Many people (especially people who use stims) Are deficient in magnesium. Take a liquid gel magnesium biglycinate(Not the aspartate version found in ZMA) pretty sure it'll work wonders.

Just going to bump this up for you.

 

[habajaba]

Just going to bump this up for you.

Thank you for the suggestions. Not ignoring this at all. I'm still trying to find where I put my last blood tests. I had a massive set of panels done a couple years ago. 6 vials of blood worth. I'm betting/hoping this was in those.

 

[Woody]

Have you stayed in a Sheraton or Westin? For me, it is worth every penny. Different than TempurPedic.

I'm not 110% sure to be honest lol. But, generally pillow tops tend to hurt my back and after 5 to 6 years they degrade quickly. TempurPedic/Memory Foam is more supportive and I have less back pain.

 

[smith_69]

They only have a pillow top? Not feeling $2200 for a pillow top. That's tempuredic money

OP - Try peeing more during the day so it doesn't wake you at night. Maybe limit your fluid intake, too. Hold your hand under hot water and pee your life away.

Other than that - see a doc for sure.

no, its for the whole mattress -

 

[Rebel1978]

I use Source Naturals Night Rest, Agmatine, and KSM66.

 

[Jiigzz]

Thanks. I am married and she confirms that I do not snore or stop breathing. Although she sounds like a chainsaw.

I don't have a GP because I don't have a lot of faith in doctors. That said, maybe it's worth a shot.

While I do say I get terrible sleep. I should be clear it's something that I've lived with my whole life. It sucks, but I clearly can function just fine. It's not like I have some major issue that just came out of nowhere. I suspect it's some minor imbalance.

Further, why I went down the supplement route is because Ultimate-T cured me for a couple weeks. I kinda just thought this was how I was made and had to live with it. But I'm guessing the KSM66 in it had some effect on me. I figured doctors will just drug me vs and the supplement would be a lesser of 2 evils.

You should trust a Doc as much as any other person from other professions. Yes, some get lazy and just prescribe stuff, but others are passionate about helping and tend to do what they can to fix the root cause.

As with all people, there are the OK and the better, but don't rule them all out.

 

[habajaba]

You should trust a Doc as much as any other person from other professions. Yes, some get lazy and just prescribe stuff, but others are passionate about helping and tend to do what they can to fix the root cause.

As with all people, there are the OK and the better, but don't rule them all out.

Fair enough. In my experience, my doctors have always wanted to prescribe drugs and schedule more appointments. I'm sure there are good ones out there who buck the system, but I haven't met them.

I don't necessarily blame them because that's what they are taught in school. Further, they are incentivized by insurance and drug companies to prescribe these drugs. As a high deductible insurance holder, I always ask what is actually needed. You'd be amazed at how much extra doctors do just because no one cares how much it costs when they have a $25 copay. For instance, an epidural pain injection is $3500 typically, but when I mentioned cash, it was a $500 outpatient job. Same thing with $1100/mo muscle relaxers. Doctor prescribed them without any consideration thinking I had a copay.

 

[Jiigzz]

Fair enough. In my experience, my doctors have always wanted to prescribe drugs and schedule more appointments. I'm sure there are good ones out there who buck the system, but I haven't met them.

I don't necessarily blame them because that's what they are taught in school. Further, they are incentivized by insurance and drug companies to prescribe these drugs. As a high deductible insurance holder, I always ask what is actually needed. You'd be amazed at how much extra doctors do just because no one cares how much it costs when they have a $25 copay. For instance, an epidural pain injection is $3500 typically, but when I mentioned cash, it was a $500 outpatient job. Same thing with $1100/mo muscle relaxers. Doctor prescribed them without any consideration thinking I had a copay.

Yeah, no matter what, any industry is filled with people who do what they can for an extra buck, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

Im in NZ and I rave about medical care here. $15-$80 per consult (I pay $15) free bloodwork and prescription medication is $5 per item. I have been prescribed stuff I wasn't confortable with bit sought another Docs advice and they helped me out.

Never hurts to keep looking but then again, the cost here is so low that i can seek multiple opinions for less than what most people pay per visit.

 

[habajaba]

Yeah, no matter what, any industry is filled with people who do what they can for an extra buck, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

Im in NZ and I rave about medical care here. $15-$80 per consult (I pay $15) free bloodwork and prescription medication is $5 per item. I have been prescribed stuff I wasn't confortable with bit sought another Docs advice and they helped me out.

Never hurts to keep looking but then again, the cost here is so low that i can seek multiple opinions for less than what most people pay per visit.

No argument here. Even just a simple doctor visit is usually $75-100 here.When I had that huge set of bloodwork run, it was about $600.

 

[Jiigzz]

No argument here. Even just a simple doctor visit is usually $75-100 here.When I had that huge set of bloodwork run, it was about $600.

Yeah, that's a hefty hit.

Try some herbals for now like Ashwagandha, Relora and Rhodiola and see how they work. They can be found relatively cheap at bulk providers - NOW Foods also has a good range.

Because its persistent, I do still stand by my doc recommendation but you could always exhaust the supplemental route first if you prefer.

L-ornithine has been useful for sleep as well (LOLA)

 

[jerard]

A few questions... How old are you, when and how do you Train, and what do you do for a living/Job...

Hey guys, I've struggled getting a good night's sleep for as long as I can remember. I typically wake up 4-5 times a night and in the morning I get up feeling like a train hit me. Whether I get 5 or 10 hours of sleep, I still feel like crap. My fitness band regularly shows 15-45 minutes of deep sleep. So I'm guessing that I'm missing out on real REM.

Here's the problem. I've tried quite a few "sleep" supplements and nothing is working... I mean at all. I took max dose of Resurrect PM on an empty stomach and felt nothing. I even tried adding a couple alcoholic drinks on top of that. Still nothing above the normal for a couple drinks. Here's what I've tried lately -

IML Dream N Grow (Kratom, L-Theanine, GABA, Phellodendron Root, Mucuna Pruriens, 5-HTP, Melatonin)
ZMA + GABA + L-Tryptophan
Melatonin
Saffron
RC Resurrect PM (GABA, Mucuna Pruriens, L-Arginine)

When I took USPLabs Ultimate-T the very first time, I had about 2 weeks of AWESOME sleep and woke up feeling amazing and ready to rock. But then it wore off. Subsequent rounds of Ultimate-T no longer have this effect. I wonder how much KSM66 is in Ultimate-T and how much I could supplement on top of taking the normal doses of Ultimate-T. Anyone know?

Any suggestions?

 

[habajaba]

A few questions... How old are you, when and how do you Train, and what do you do for a living/Job...

36. Usually between noon and 2, alternate an hour long circuit/strength day and a 30 min HIIT cardio day, 6 days a week. Consulting as a technical advisor/software dev/CTO.

 

[jerard]

ok, here's a thought, i don't know you/your personality, so i can only give you some ideas to think about. Your cortisol may be out of whack due to your job and/or diet. If your job is highly stressful--and your personality can contribute to your stress, your training may a contributing factor. Again, this is something to consider, cut back your training, 45 minutes weight training, maybe even 30 minutes 3x a week, do cardio in an aerobic state on your off weight training days for 30 minutes. To me it sounds like your living too much in a sympathetic nervous system state, that will keep your cortisol levels high which ends-up frying your Central Nervous System. Your diet can be another contributing factor sa can be your posture which effects resting breathing patterns. The idea of more Training is good... is really a bad idea, this can leave your body too much in a catabolic state. I hope some of this helps Good Luck

 

[bigdogla8]

LGI Night Train. Great sleep and feel well rested the next day. No sleep hangover.