Need help combatting Gyno - new attempt with inhibit e

[skinjob75]

I could use some advice on my attempts to combat psuedo & genuine gyno. I've got high estradiol and low T & low DHT. I tried Nolva but couldn't continue due to sides. I've been taking 400 MG DIM and have tried Andactrim also (couldn't maintain high enough dose to be effective due to SE).

I wanted to try SNS inhibit e alongside the DIM, but I read comments you need a T booster to take with it. What's a good strategy?

 

[Permabulk95]

Over the counter supplements for gyno?? I think you need real stuff like Serms and aromatase inhibitors

 

[skinjob75]

That would be ideal, if I wasn't so messed up from another pharmaceutical that I can't tolerate the sides from these things.

 

[Permabulk95]

How is your gyno now?

 

[skinjob75]

Puffy. Nipples are flat and enlarged, it's painful when I do anything more than walk. I have minor lumps that I just noticed after trying Andactrim back in Feb. It gets better when I take DIM, but I'm still dealing with high E2/low T symptoms, belly fat and bloating, can't hold back a pee, etc.

 

[Permabulk95]

Try some letrozole? That will kill estrogen levels in the body and dry out that gyno , I would also take nolva just cause it can also inhibit the gyno and also raise test levels after awhile , do you have a way to get this stuff?

 

[Permabulk95]

I'm not a guy that has done tons of cycles and dealt with this issue you have , but I have done some cycles and was quite prepared to address things like gyno if I ever developed it, so I've done a lot of reading on what to do to fight gyno and prevent it from happening so I have a fair amount of knowledge
I but I'm sure some other people here can give good advice also

 

[criticalbench]

Try some letrozole? That will kill estrogen levels in the body and dry out that gyno , I would also take nolva just cause it can also inhibit the gyno and also raise test levels after awhile , do you have a way to get this stuff?

If he can't tolerate tamox, he is not going to tolerate letro. OP, you had this since February, its late april lol.. you need to consider getting your glands removed at this point. IMO, your gyno is solidified, to much time has passed. You have to treat gyno and reverse it days after you notice it.

Glandular excision is simple and done with you awake, well worth the money.

 

[xam2991]

Take a low dose of exemestane, like 3-5 mg per day. Will calm down your gyno and you shouldnt have any noticeable sides. Since you have high estro you should tackle the problem at the root of it all. Taking tamox will not fix high estro, it will only masks its effects in your breast tissue. Taking a low dose of exemestane should put your estro values in normal range and raise your test a bit. Also, taking tamox without an aromatase inihibitor in your situation could very well exacerbate your already high estrogen problems. Tamox obviously raises test, but without an ai a lot of that test is able to convert to estrogen. since you already have high estro, the test increase from the tamox was likely increasing your estro even higher.....

In short, i would recommend surgery for the tissue itself since you presumably wont be able to handle the sides that would come from the drugs necessary to rid you of your gyno, and take a low dose of aromasin to keep your estro in range so the gyno doesnt come back/get worse.

Masteron and other dht derivatives can be helpful for gyno in some cases, may be worth looking into. A combination of a dht prohormone(high dose) and letrozole helped mine a lot.

Sorry for the poor spelling and grammar. too lazy to care since this is a fitness forum.

 

[cheftepesh1]

If he can't tolerate tamox, he is not going to tolerate letro. OP, you had this since February, its late april lol.. you need to consider getting your glands removed at this point. IMO, your gyno is solidified, to much time has passed. You have to treat gyno and reverse it days after you notice it.

Glandular excision is simple and done with you awake, well worth the money.

This would be the direction I would go if I was you. See a specialist and handle it the right way. The more time you wait can only increase the issue.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

If he can't tolerate tamox, he is not going to tolerate letro. OP, you had this since February, its late april lol.. you need to consider getting your glands removed at this point. IMO, your gyno is solidified, to much time has passed. You have to treat gyno and reverse it days after you notice it.

Glandular excision is simple and done with you awake, well worth the money.

This. Might as well take all that potential supplement/ remedy money spent trying to combat it to fix it for real.

 

[xam2991]

You may want to look into raloxifene, OP. its been shown in atleast one study i know of to reduce pubertal/already "set in" gyno. I have taken ralox before and didnt have any sides. but i also dont get any sides from tamox so i might be a bad example for you.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15238910

 

[Misfit28]

Dude, go to the doctor.

 

[skinjob75]

Guys, thanks for the replys. :wave2: Please help me break this down.

- What kind of specialist do I see that deals with gland excision, a plastic surgeon? I've also got a good amount of fat developed in this area also, much more than any other place on my body. It's that jiggly fat that's nice on girls.

- Ongoing, I need to manage e2 with something boosting the DHT spectrum ongoing post-op to prevent this from reoccuring, despite having the gland removed? Will taking small amounts of topical DHT (Andactrim) be the same as masteron or DHT prohormones? I could deal with small amounts, just not the larger amounts of Andactrim. And is PCT required then?

- I am really wasted right now, and want to do some supplement cycles to boost hormones after dealing with the gyno, and PCT after each supp cycle to be safe.

Misfit28: the doctor is the reason I'm in this mess in the first place, and my endo is pushing me to continue taking tamox despite the sides with no alternatives. I started having pain in the chest close to 10 months ago, and still nothing is resolved.

 

[Misfit28]

Guys, thanks for the replys. :wave2: Please help me break this down.

- What kind of specialist do I see that deals with gland excision, a plastic surgeon? I've also got a good amount of fat developed in this area also, much more than any other place on my body. It's that jiggly fat that's nice on girls.

- Ongoing, I need to manage e2 with something boosting the DHT spectrum ongoing post-op to prevent this from reoccuring, despite having the gland removed? Will taking small amounts of topical DHT (Andactrim) be the same as masteron or DHT prohormones? I could deal with small amounts, just not the larger amounts of Andactrim. And is PCT required then?

- I am really wasted right now, and want to do some supplement cycles to boost hormones after dealing with the gyno, and PCT after each supp cycle to be safe.

Misfit28: the doctor is the reason I'm in this mess in the first place, and my endo is pushing me to continue taking tamox despite the sides with no alternatives. I started having pain in the chest close to 10 months ago, and still nothing is resolved.

I'm glad you sought medical advice, but maybe it's time for a new endo?

 

[Daycrawler]

You need to seek a second opinion from a different Endo. Inhibit-E is good stuff but in this case your best course of action is consulting a second endo.

 

[xam2991]

Guys, thanks for the replys. :wave2: Please help me break this down.

- What kind of specialist do I see that deals with gland excision, a plastic surgeon? I've also got a good amount of fat developed in this area also, much more than any other place on my body. It's that jiggly fat that's nice on girls.

- Ongoing, I need to manage e2 with something boosting the DHT spectrum ongoing post-op to prevent this from reoccuring, despite having the gland removed? Will taking small amounts of topical DHT (Andactrim) be the same as masteron or DHT prohormones? I could deal with small amounts, just not the larger amounts of Andactrim. And is PCT required then?

- I am really wasted right now, and want to do some supplement cycles to boost hormones after dealing with the gyno, and PCT after each supp cycle to be safe.

Misfit28: the doctor is the reason I'm in this mess in the first place, and my endo is pushing me to continue taking tamox despite the sides with no alternatives. I started having pain in the chest close to 10 months ago, and still nothing is resolved.

Literally all you need to do to manage your high e2 is take a low dose aromasin to keep it in normal range. Taking small amounts of andractim will be not be the same as masteron or dht prohormones. Topical dht will be weaker. I have heard that topical dht, applied to the chest area, can help gyno though.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Inhibit e wont take you anywhere at this condition. Still is a legit product.

You have two options as I see it.
1)take exemestane and raloxifene-hoping you will tolerate them, in order to control estrogen

2)find asap a new doctor

Basically what guys said above me

 

[vujade]

Theres a lot of good info in this thread. But to add to it, i would suggest.....

For Low T - you want Longjack (Eurycoma Longifolia)

For Low DHT - you want Butea Superba

For you gyno, if breast tissue has developed, you could try Ralox or you may have to resort to
Plastic Surgery if that don't work.

 

[skinjob75]

Just got some new labs, which changes a few things.

Prolactin at 16 ng/mL, just above range
Estradiol down to 24 pg/mL, high range is mid 40s.
SHBG is at 90, high range is 60.

Still waiting for some others. Perhaps DIM lowered the Estradiol finally. SHBG is obviously way high. The endo is worthless, saying not to worry about prolactin and SHBG. I'm seeking someone else. Do you guys recommend and endo, uro, or anti aging doc?

And in light of the new tests, any ideas?

 

[ericool007]

rub some formestane on that nipple haha that might have woked too when you first noticed it

 

[jamesrick80]

You may think I'm out there with this recommendation, but take arimistane three 25 mg tabs a day (something w/ old erase active ingredient) , 2 scoops of alphamine morning and afternoon (the yohimbe in it blocks certain estrogen receptors and some of the other ingredients help as well), and 3 ZMA cspsules at bed time (naturally blocks estrogen)....do this for 8 weeks with nothing else and trust me it will work.

 

[xam2991]

You may think I'm out there with this recommendation, but take arimistane three 25 mg tabs a day (something w/ old erase active ingredient) , 2 scoops of alphamine morning and afternoon (the yohimbe in it blocks certain estrogen receptors and some of the other ingredients help as well), and 3 ZMA cspsules at bed time (naturally blocks estrogen)....do this for 8 weeks with nothing else and trust me it will work.

I dont know man, arimistane is great and all but there is no way it will be as effective as aromasin or arimidex. Arimistane hasnt even been proven in vivo to reduce estrogen. Also, yohimbe does not "block certain estrogen receptors." Thats just not true. It is very good at helping to eliminate fat deposits that estrogenic in nature though, due to its effects on the A2 receptors. But it will do nothing for estrogen levels.

 

[Misfit28]

High prolactin can also cause gyno. Have you done a cycle recently?

Your best bet IMO would be a second opinion from another endo. You could go the anti-aging route as well. Not sure a urologist would be much help with this. Inhibit P is great for lowering prolactin, but you might need something pharma grade like caber or prami.

 

[StatePlan1425]

Misfit28 and others are spot on. Get a second endo. If treatment protocol is still the same and no results, then take matters in your own hands. IMO gyno, if self treated needs to be immediate. At this point you have multiple issues. For example, while you would think lowering SHBG would help free up T, you will also free up more E2. Solid advice on lowering P but again, recommend second endo first. And be transparent with what you have taken thus far. Best of luck.

 

[kisaj]

You need a second opinion from another endo, period. Do not go the anti-aging clinic route as they are nothing but money grabbing scam artists that will load you up on unnecessary products with no care about your health.

DIM will not lower estrogen, it simply allows for metabolism of bad etrogens into the good pathways. Good stuff, but not for lowering estrogen. Arimistane is useless for estrogen control. OTC supplements are not your path right now. A new doctor is.

 

[Misfit28]

You need a second opinion from another endo, period. Do not go the anti-aging clinic route as they are nothing but money grabbing scam artists that will load you up on unnecessary products with no care about your health.

DIM will not lower estrogen, it simply allows for metabolism of bad etrogens into the good pathways. Good stuff, but not for lowering estrogen. Arimistane is useless for estrogen control. OTC supplements are not your path right now. A new doctor is.

Good point. I've never looked into the anti aging docs much.

 

[skinjob75]

No cycles or anything for years, the only thing was a run of Andactrim for 2 weeks a couple months ago to combat gyno. I had to take some other non sterioidal drugs last year and gained some weight, which is when the nipples started to hurt. I lost half the weight and I've been off the drugs for over a year, but the gyno never went away.

Despite the gyno, I'm really wasted now and need to do some prohormone cycles once I get this gyno under control. I feel like total **** this past year, I'm really weak.

Typically I deal with high SHBG and Prolactin, low free T, and midrange T and E2. E2 was up recently, but now it's lower or the previous read was bad.

I'm searching for another endo now.

 

[blondbencher]

If he can't tolerate tamox, he is not going to tolerate letro. OP, you had this since February, its late april lol.. you need to consider getting your glands removed at this point. IMO, your gyno is solidified, to much time has passed. You have to treat gyno and reverse it days after you notice it.

Glandular excision is simple and done with you awake, well worth the money.

How much?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

probably 5-10k

 

[EMPIREMIND]

probably 5-10k

You can definitely find it for less. But you need to review thier portfolio of work. Theres some good docs out here in ny that are below 5 who have work comparable to dr blau. Just do your research

 

[skinjob75]

Ok, I'm looking for an endo specializing in these issues, and what I've found is a crapshoot. Any suggestions or resources on where to find someone who knows how to deal with this?

 

[Aleksandar37]

Ok, I'm looking for an endo specializing in these issues, and what I've found is a crapshoot. Any suggestions or resources on where to find someone who knows how to deal with this?

If you're going to an endo, then you're already dealing with a specialist. Are they just not giving you the answer you want to hear?

 

[xam2991]

I believe for the most part that most endos have no idea what the hell they're doing when it comes to these kinds of issues. Yeah there are some that are well versed in dealing with gynecomastia and low t, but for the most part the medical practices just are not there yet. As i stated earlier, a low dose exemestane is all you need to keep your estro in range. High prolactin? Grab some pramipexole. I dont explicitly condone self medicating per se......but its better than going from endo to endo trying to find one that knows what the hell they are doing when it comes to these issues.

 

[Jiigzz]

I believe for the most part that most endos have no idea what the hell they're doing when it comes to these kinds of issues. Yeah there are some that are well versed in dealing with gynecomastia and low t, but for the most part the medical practices just are not there yet. As i stated earlier, a low dose exemestane is all you need to keep your estro in range. High prolactin? Grab some pramipexole. I dont explicitly condone self medicating per se......but its better than going from endo to endo trying to find one that knows what the hell they are doing when it comes to these issues.

Lmao. Thanks Doc

 

[xam2991]

not everyone is lucky enough to have a badass endo that knows what they're doing. ive seen many people get prescribed trt, end up having high e2 and the doctor refuses to prescribe any sort of ai. knowledge is power, its relatively easy to educate yourself on how to use these drugs if you aren't a retard. the internet is useful for things other than jerking off. Oh, and you're welcome. of course a competent endo would be everyones first choice....but if that doesnt pan out then its on to pharm grade ancillaries and regular bloodwork. this is normally how it goes in the trt/ped community, and it makes sense.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Yeah, I'm out. Looks like you and google have it all figured out. Best of luck!

 

[xam2991]

Yeah, I'm out. Looks like you and google have it all figured out. Best of luck!

Been cycling and reading about this **** for about 4 years now.....dont be mad i know more than you bro, its okay.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Been cycling and reading about this **** for about 4 years now.....dont be mad i know more than you bro, its okay.

I'm not mad at all and more than happy to help just like most other forum members, but you're not the first person to come on here with this story. You don't want facts. You want somebody to support your little theory, but don't want to accept that you could be wrong. That sort of arrogance is fine when you're trying to pick out a new Axe spray scent to buy or which Abercrombie and Fitch shirt to wear, bro, but it's not a good way to go when it comes to your health. So, sincerely, best of luck to you.

 

[skinjob75]

Aleksandar37 I think you may have confused a another poster with me, the OP. In response, the endo "specialist" I'm seeing actually specializes in something else, and is quoting me the treatment path off uptodate.com, which is a medical website that anyone can get a subscription to.
xam2991

 

[baxtecal]

You may want to look into raloxifene, OP. its been shown in atleast one study i know of to reduce pubertal/already "set in" gyno. I have taken ralox before and didnt have any sides. but i also dont get any sides from tamox so i might be a bad example for you.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15238910

Another vouch for Ralox

 

[Jiigzz]

not everyone is lucky enough to have a badass endo that knows what they're doing. ive seen many people get prescribed trt, end up having high e2 and the doctor refuses to prescribe any sort of ai. knowledge is power, its relatively easy to educate yourself on how to use these drugs if you aren't a retard. the internet is useful for things other than jerking off. Oh, and you're welcome. of course a competent endo would be everyones first choice....but if that doesnt pan out then its on to pharm grade ancillaries and regular bloodwork. this is normally how it goes in the trt/ped community, and it makes sense.

I don't know how med school works in the US compared to here, but I can assure you that Endos understand more than you think you do. Sure some can get lazy, but that happens in any field. If you thinks it's easy to become an Endo, or properly understand the HPTA axis and all things related, then you have barely scratched the surface. Have you ever asked an endo why they didn't prescribe an AI? Maybe there way rhyme to their reason - but you cannot just assume they are idiots or that you know more without asking for rationale.

The point of study is to get you understanding concepts that you didn't even know existed so that you can make the best judgement call whenever a situation arises. For instance, I had a guy come in to see me after having a minor heart attack who was told by a family member to decrease his fat/ cholesterol intake further to avoid the same thing happening again - but his issue wasn't in his fat and cholesterol intake, it was the amount of added sugar in his diet he hadn't accounted for. So much so that his Trig levels were off the chart and his LDL-p was terrible. I told him to maintain his fat intake but lower his carbohydrate intake to 30% or less and we watched his risk drop.

The point is, sometimes other factors are at play that people don't even consider and you have to be careful what advice you give if their issues don't stem from what you think they do

 

[toddmuelheim]

I don't know how med school works in the US compared to here, but I can assure you that Endos understand more than you think you do. Sure some can get lazy, but that happens in any field. If you thinks it's easy to become an Endo, or properly understand the HPTA axis and all things related, then you have barely scratched the surface. Have you ever asked an endo why they didn't prescribe an AI? Maybe there way rhyme to their reason - but you cannot just assume they are idiots or that you know more without asking for rationale.

The point of study is to get you understanding concepts that you didn't even know existed so that you can make the best judgement call whenever a situation arises. For instance, I had a guy come in to see me after having a minor heart attack who was told by a family member to decrease his fat/ cholesterol intake further to avoid the same thing happening again - but his issue wasn't in his fat and cholesterol intake, it was the amount of added sugar in his diet he hadn't accounted for. So much so that his Trig levels were off the chart and his LDL-p was terrible. I told him to maintain his fat intake but lower his carbohydrate intake to 30% or less and we watched his risk drop.

The point is, sometimes other factors are at play that people don't even consider and you have to be careful what advice you give if their issues don't stem from what you think they do

In the US doctors don't know anything. All knowledge comes from Internet forums and pubmed abstracts.

 

[kisaj]

I see both sides. Do I think many doctors and specialists are useless- yes. Do I also think that many are great at their craft- yes. I went through 3 endos before finding one that actually cared about what they were doing. Those odds suck so when I see that someone has had bad experiences and could find better and more thorough answers with self research, I believe it 100%. I spent a good year researching while I was in-between endos and equipped myself with the knowledge to ask the right questions and ask for specific testing and plans moving forward.

 

[Woody]

In the US doctors don't know anything. All knowledge comes from Internet forums and pubmed abstracts.

Yeah who needs med school when you have the interwebz?

 

[Aleksandar37]

Aleksandar37 I think you may have confused a another poster with me, the OP. In response, the endo "specialist" I'm seeing actually specializes in something else, and is quoting me the treatment path off uptodate.com, which is a medical website that anyone can get a subscription to.
xam2991

Yeah, sorry about that. What is your endo specialty? You need to try another endo if you're not happy and if you have proof of that uptodate.com claim, then you need to grab a lawyer as well. I'm just saying that you're not going to find somebody who only does gynecomastia all day. 99% of their business would be telling paranoid dudes that their itchy nipples are not a case of gynecomastia.

 

[skinjob75]

The state of medicine, when it comes to male hormones ratios, is sadly lacking. My endo (specializes in osteoperosis & diabetes) in particular keeps saying things are within range or "within tolerance" when levels are clearly out of range and the ratios are backward.

I've been searching for the last week and the only doc I got a decent feeling from is an anti aging ND that typically boosts T to 1200 and manages from there. Obviously an endo would be ideal but he was willing to talk through my issues via phone call and address ratios and said he would treat my prolactin with caberg, though he had nothing for elevated SHBG.

Finding the right doc is not an easy task...

 

[warbird01]

That would be ideal, if I wasn't so messed up from another pharmaceutical that I can't tolerate the sides from these things.

Sack up dude. Know what sucks more than the sides from AI/SERMs?

****ING GYNO.

 

[warbird01]

I don't know how med school works in the US compared to here, but I can assure you that Endos understand more than you think you do. Sure some can get lazy, but that happens in any field. If you thinks it's easy to become an Endo, or properly understand the HPTA axis and all things related, then you have barely scratched the surface. Have you ever asked an endo why they didn't prescribe an AI? Maybe there way rhyme to their reason - but you cannot just assume they are idiots or that you know more without asking for rationale.

The point of study is to get you understanding concepts that you didn't even know existed so that you can make the best judgement call whenever a situation arises. For instance, I had a guy come in to see me after having a minor heart attack who was told by a family member to decrease his fat/ cholesterol intake further to avoid the same thing happening again - but his issue wasn't in his fat and cholesterol intake, it was the amount of added sugar in his diet he hadn't accounted for. So much so that his Trig levels were off the chart and his LDL-p was terrible. I told him to maintain his fat intake but lower his carbohydrate intake to 30% or less and we watched his risk drop.

The point is, sometimes other factors are at play that people don't even consider and you have to be careful what advice you give if their issues don't stem from what you think they do

Naw man becoming a doctor is easy, especially going into a specialty area.

I woulda become a doctor but instead I decided to become a construction worker.

 

[ryanhalterman]

Not sure where to post this but looking for some answers. Been researching about my puffy nipples for awhile now and keep making myself worry about it and not sure if it's gyno. At the end of 2014 I weighed about 45 pounds heavier and have lost a lot of weight. Just recently I've noticed my nipples are becoming way more puffy and are lactating a clear liquid if I squeeze hard enough. They look pretty normal when they are cold. No lumps. Just puffy and protrude as you can see in the photos. I've thought it could be high prolactin and am taking SNS inhibit p. Going to doc on the 16th to talk to her and see if I can get bloods but I just am worried I can't reverse this. Any advice on what to take or do? I have not messed with AAS. One time back in high school I had just a couple injections of test e from a buddy but that's it.