Completely new start, completely new supplementation

[mtmrfz]

WARNING WALL OF TEXT AHEAD

First and foremost I would like to say Hello to every and each one of you! I've just came across this forum while searching for the info from which I compose my body transformation program and say thank you for all the information regarding supplements and ways which I've never even thought exist, so thank you for opening my eyes and giving so much information without any bias BS or shill nonsense!

Without further ado -
I'm a 22 year old male and am no stranger to working out. I've been working out consistently for two years and established a good understanding of what my body wants, needs and responds good and bad to. But due to some life changing events I was forced to completely abandon my gym routine and spent all of my time working and trying to earn as much money as I could for 9 months withtout seeing any light of the day(thank you night shifts). Now that this is over I'm ready to get my body back since it is in quite an awful state.

I've already got my workout program done and ready to roll but the only thing on hold is my stack. I did have quite the experience with common supplements(different pre workouts to understand my caffeine tolerance and my crash limit, casein and whey and all in one shakes to see which one my stomach can cope with, bcaa intra workout and throughout the day, creatine hcl,mono and different mixes, speaking bluntly tried a decent amount of supplements to see where it can get me, but I've never gotten my hands on any anabolic stimulants even though always wanted to and I believe since this is a new start supplementation should be new and different aswell to maximize the results and get that extra mile in building the bodyone desires.

My parameters are:
Weight - 176
Height 5'10
My physique at the moment can be described as skinny fat

Goal:

My goal is to shredd a good chunk of fat(since completely eradicate that stubborn substance from ones body is a tremendous amount of work even for bodybuilders who spent decades working on their bodies, which I most certainly am not) and build a decent amount of muscle. I'm not desiring to be incredibly big and broad or to have a 35 inch bice and quads big enough to break a log of wood if clenched between legs. My goal is to get that shredded, lean look where I can fit into clothes that are slightly smaller than the ones I'm wearing now.

I workout 4 to 5 days a week, depending on my working schedule and how I feel(I'm a proud owner of Gilbert's Syndrome and cannot really say if it is thanks to that or not, but if I really overdo it inthe gym or any other physical exercise while not having a good strict diet I can come to a crash where I do not have any strenght left and become completely mentally exhausted to the point where all I want/can do is stay in bed until I get fully rested).

My supplementation which I use on a regular basis:
CL OxiMega
Reflex Nexgen Pro/CL Orange Triad + greens/ Olimp Vita-Min/Dr Feel Good/Activite(it really depends on what is in stock)
Green Tea extract

Supps that I will purchase when I'll come back into the gym
Whey Protein
Creatine Mono
Pre workout(I settle down with pre's that usually have clinical doses of the needed ingridients and less than 200 caffeine since anything that goes past it will make me wanna go into the squat rack, curl into a ball and die)
And one additional anabolic stimulant which would be a good addition and a proper choice taking into consideration my goal. Which I would like to choose from your advice, since I myself do not posses any experience or knowledge regarding those king of supplements, may be I dont even need one, who knows.
At this very moment what I've found out thus far and what I believe could go along with my plans is either one of these:

AnaBeta Elite
Alphamine
Erase Pro+
Arimistane
MyoSynergy Elite
Ergonine

I'm not sure wether or not test boosters will do any good taking into consideration my age, but still.

Concluding this long and probably annoying to many of you post(I believe there should've been a plentyful of those) I would really appreciate any of the input and any advice given, thank you in advice and please have a nice day!

One love!

PS. Please excute any grammatical errors or mistakes, english isn ot my native language, but I'm trying!

 

[Afi140]

The main point is to find out One additional supplement to help aid in fat loss correct?
As long as diet and training are dialed in then keep reading.


Since you haven't decided on a pre but plan on using one I would suggest alphamine or norcodrene (feel out the dosage since you don't want more than 200mg of caffeine). This will help with fat loss but also provide the necessary energy you would want in a pre. To accompany that, as your one additional supplement, I would add PES shift. Forskolin and the other ingredients produce a very nice leaning out effect which would help you achieve your goals and is pretty inexpensive for all it offers. There are tons of good options out there as additions but these two combined have effective synergy between the two and should help produce the desired results.

See link below if you want to read up.

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/shift-by-pescience

Ps-I don't think anabolic stimulant is what you're looking to say. Just for future reference.

 

[ma70]

Out of everything you mentioned, go with Ergonine and just work hard and be consistent.

 

[mtmrfz]

Thank you very much for your input! The replacement of a pre with another product like alphamine and adding an additional supp to accompany it is a great idea!

 

[smith_69]

nice intro and welcome to the forum

take a look at Afi140 mentioned and maybe add in or switch up with the following

Betaine Anhydrous
Magnesium Creatine Chelate - SNS
X Gels- SNS

need anything else, just ask- Lots of good members and threads to help

 

[john.patterson]

Very thorough post, welcome brother! Sounds like you have a pretty knowledgeable background of basic supplementation and training. The products you've mentioned above would all be solid options. If you are stim sensitive, I would not recommend Alphamine. You could try using one scoop servings, but if you're sensitive to caffeine you'll be off the walls with Alphamine.

In regards to your comment on test boosters, I think that at 22 you're a little young for some of the strictly test boosting products and herbs out there. But there are some great products that contain some test boosting properties ingredients as a base, combined with other ingredients that would could be beneficial for you while cutting. You mention Anabeta Elite above, which I feel is better used during a bulk, but it is in the natural test booster + extras category that would be good for you to try.

If you're trying to get lean and do a recomp (which is what your description sounds like to me), I would recommend AlphaMax XT. It contains a very complete profile to help boost natural testosterone levels, while also including ingredients to limit cortisol and estrogen which can be a huge benefit during a recomp. Alphamax XT also contains 25mg per serving of forskolin, which has been studied to increase lean body mass while decreasing body fat. Forskolin is great to add to any recomp stack, and Alphamax XT provides the full studied dose.

You also mentioned you're looking for a pre-workout with <200mg of caffeine. My only concern is if you are planning to stack this preworkout with a fat burner. Most fat burners contain caffeine, so adding a preworkout on top of a fat burner may put you over the edge. Luckly, Alphamax XT doesn't contain caffeine, so you would be fine using a stimulant based pre-workout with it. Have you considered a non-stim preworkout at all?

 

[mtmrfz]

In all honesty, letting a pre go for a better suited choice which also contains caffeine is a completely viable option. Which is why taking a pre out and taking alphamine + additional supp is a great idea as I stated above, I do not consider pre a must since the only thing it does is make me less lazy and gives a great pump, but I could do just fine without it. In fact I think I would do better wotrhout a pre as soon as I get into the routine zone.

 

[mtmrfz]

And of course, Thank you guys for all the input and such a warm welcome! Wasn't expecting that to be honest.

 

[ma70]

And of course, Thank you guys for all the input and such a warm welcome! Wasn't expecting that to be honest.

There's a pretty good crowd here, you're in good hands.

 

[smith_69]

And of course, Thank you guys for all the input and such a warm welcome! Wasn't expecting that to be honest.

This isn't your average forum bro. You will see members here for more than 10 years ago, still very active. Let us know which you decide and how it works out. need anything, just ask

 

[mtmrfz]

Thank you guys for the advice, I think I'll settle with Alphamine + Shift combination since it seems best suited for the goal I'm after. Meanwhile maybe there are some other supplements which you could recommend? Maybe something to increase lean muscle mass development? I'd say it is easier for me to shredd fat than build lean muscle, very easy to gain overall mass, but talking about lean muscle, oh boy I remember doing chest 5 days a week to get them juicy chest muscle bigger than abdominal muscles. So even though I find the combination stated above to be perfect suited for my current goal, maybe you could shoot some suggestions of certain supps that help build muscle,aside from obvious whey and good diet. I also find it really hard to follow bulk and cut schedule so I'm trying to build muscle while slowly shredding the unneeded fat.

 

[mtmrfz]

Also(sorry for the blitz of questions) how would you guys recommend taking alphamine+shift? Taking them together at all times? Right as after waking up and before working out with at least 4 hours in between? And what should be a normal everyday dosing? What would you suggest?

 

[raul87]

Honestly a good protein powder and the Creatine will help you there. I'm also trying to build some muscle while burning some fat and I feel a good protein powder is very helpful getting in those extra grams of protein without the added calories of a full meal.

 

[raul87]

Also(sorry for the blitz of questions) how would you guys recommend taking alphamine+shift? Taking them together at all times? Right as after waking up and before working out with at least 4 hours in between? And what should be a normal everyday dosing? What would you suggest?

I love using alphamine before breakfast it's like my morning coffee even though I don't drink coffee but I feel it's effects very good in the morning. It all depends on when you're working out. If you are still looking for a pre look into Pre Bulk it has clinical doses and less than 200mg of caffeine I really enjoyed it

 

[mtmrfz]

Usually I get a small breakfast like a couple of eggs or oatmeal with a scoop of whey and then go straight to the gym. I don't like stuffing my face in the morning. The good meals taking place after the workouts

 

[smith_69]

Honestly a good protein powder and the Creatine will help you there. I'm also trying to build some muscle while burning some fat and I feel a good protein powder is very helpful getting in those extra grams of protein without the added calories of a full meal.

especially if you go with a carb free protein. once in a while

 

[AntM1564]

Before you look past your basic supps, I would just stick with those until you get back into the grove of things. A fat burner is not needed initially. I would just advise eating at a surplus for a while, you should not have a hard time losing any fat. It looks like you have your fish oil covered. I would just suggest a good multi vitamin, such as Orange Triad, a good protein powder (Select, Titanium Whey, Animal Whey, Cor Whey, Modern Protein) and a creatine or designer creatine. CreMax XT is what I would suggest for a designer creatine. You get your daily dose of creatine, 5 grams, in two different forms. Also, betanine and L-Alanyl L-Glutamine will help with performance and recovery.

 

[Jiigzz]

Thank you guys for the advice, I think I'll settle with Alphamine + Shift combination since it seems best suited for the goal I'm after. Meanwhile maybe there are some other supplements which you could recommend? Maybe something to increase lean muscle mass development? I'd say it is easier for me to shredd fat than build lean muscle, very easy to gain overall mass, but talking about lean muscle, oh boy I remember doing chest 5 days a week to get them juicy chest muscle bigger than abdominal muscles. So even though I find the combination stated above to be perfect suited for my current goal, maybe you could shoot some suggestions of certain supps that help build muscle,aside from obvious whey and good diet. I also find it really hard to follow bulk and cut schedule so I'm trying to build muscle while slowly shredding the unneeded fat.

Xgels is pretty good in this department, but I would suggest keeping it simple, especially if you already will have a few supplements on hand.

A good Creatine mono (we sell a 1.2kg tub for around $15 which will last you a lifetime).

In terms of fat loss, a caffeine tab and yohimbine (if you tolerate it) work exceptionally well and barely cost a thing. Usually those two ingredients are what fat burners rely on, but instead of paying $40+ per month, you could pay like $15 for both of those that will last forever.

 

[Driven2lift]

You're sure as hell on a good track here man between your existing knowledge and replies here,

As a single supplement I definitely recommend Ergonine, it covere and will help with almost everything you're after.

http://store.lockoutforums.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=2005159

As an addition, as fat loss seems to be a priority, Norcodrene is my next suggestion.

http://store.lockoutforums.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=2003515

Great appetite suppression and energy, all a dedicated person needs to help shed fat.

Alternative to that would be EC

 

[mtmrfz]

Brothers! I may have misguided you or took on a different approach that may have not delivered on my goal, at least it Lind of looks like it. Here is the thing, today I went to my gym to talk to my friend, who is working as a personal trainer. I can't call this man my best friend or a good pal with whom I go out on a regular basis, but he was the one to help and guide me when I just started out working out at the age of 15, he was always there with me even with my numerous half a years breaks from the gym, he was the one to give me advice and tell what's better for me in terms of my workout and supplementation, we came be considered best friends, but he is the one who is always giving me the nod after a successful push seeing me progress, so he got quite some insight on what y body can do and what works for it as well) I went to him to say Hello and to see if he can get me some alphamine and shift with reduced price, I live in Europe and it is kind of a bummer to order strong things from US,costs 5 times more, we've chat for a good while and after I given him my workout program and supp plan and after he looked at my physique and the plan itself he told me this, "This is definitely a Solid plan if you wish to shredd yourself to the bone and look like a concecrarion camp escapee, taking your program and the amount of cardio you usually do plus the leaning agents you will look thin rather than ripped. I would suggest you save the money on those strong things and spend them to get more protein and ebently spread it out through a couple of month, get a solid 4-5 scoops,eat clean,consistent and big, take your creatine,multi and omegas, a pre if that is something you fancy since you are feeling lazy go ahead, or not and just come in and I'll motivate the shut out of you, and after you get as Mich mass as you can then you can jump on alphamine and shift and see your unwanted belly go and real muscle to show". These were his exact words, and in all honesty I find this advice to be solid since I do lack muscle tissue, would it underdeliver to take alphamine and shift with a program that is so strongly concentrated on shredding fat via excessive cardio and accelerations(jumping, running on the spot)between sets of resistance training?
What do you guys think? I have no reason not to trust this man's opinion since he knows how I progress and how my body looks at this moment, would it be better to go into a more common bulk stage and get some muscle in, and only after that hop on alpha+shift? Or will it still deliver even being rather skinny? Maybe there are other supps that you could recommend in my situation?

 

[john.patterson]

I would agree with your friends advice about cutting. If you don't have much muscle mass to begin with, you don't have anything to cut down to. You'll be left with a skinny frame with limited muscle mass. How long have you been training for? I think a better approach would be a recomp (as I stated above) or lean bulk in an attempt to put on some muscle while losing fat. Doing a cut at your current level would be counterproductive IMO

 

[mtmrfz]

Could you please elaborate on the recomp option, never came across such a approach. Also regarding lean bulk is the usually the way I roll,is there a product that supplements lean bulk?

 

[john.patterson]

Could you please elaborate on the recomp option, never came across such a approach. Also regarding lean bulk is the usually the way I roll,is there a product that supplements lean bulk?

Recomping is the most difficult strategy to do properly. It yields slower muscle and strength gains, but allows you to stay lean or lose fat at the same time. This require a good understanding of how your body handles calories and carbs. A typical recomp for me consists of a diet slightly above maintenance calories (200-300 cal surplus) with some HIIT and added cardio to help stay lean. The idea behind a recomp is to give your body the nutrients needed to grow at proper times (pre, intra, and post workout), while also working to lose body fat through cardio and proper nutrition.

If you are interested in doing a recomp or lean bulk, I would recommend Alphamax XT. It is a very complete product that will help increase natural testosterone levels, limit cortisol and estrogen levels, and put your body in a favorable position to gain strength while losing body fat. Alphamax XT contains a full serving of forskolin per dose also, which is a great ingredient to utilize during a recomp. If you're interested in Alphamax XT, Nutriverse is having a 20% off sale on the entire Performax line

 

[mtmrfz]

I've got advice on Alphamax XT a several times now, and now that cutting myself to the bone doesn;t seem like a good idea, lean and clean bulk looks more promising(by no means does it make all of the previous input irrelevant, I'm super hyped to try alpha+shift and I will definately do so as soon as I get this muscle mass in, really interested to see how it will workout for me). From what I can tell, Alphamax works as a test booster and cortisol control but also giving extra 10% with Furskholi and Ferula(from what I've read)m but taking into consideration my age would it have a lesser effect? Plus is Alphamax stackable with something else to maximize those gains?

 

[john.patterson]

I've got advice on Alphamax XT a several times now, and now that cutting myself to the bone doesn;t seem like a good idea, lean and clean bulk looks more promising(by no means does it make all of the previous input irrelevant, I'm super hyped to try alpha+shift and I will definately do so as soon as I get this muscle mass in, really interested to see how it will workout for me). From what I can tell, Alphamax works as a test booster and cortisol control but also giving extra 10% with Furskholi and Ferula(from what I've read)m but taking into consideration my age would it have a lesser effect? Plus is Alphamax stackable with something else to maximize those gains?

I think this would be a better route for you given your current stats. At 22, I still think that Alphamax XT would be a great choice for you. I'm 23 and I am currently using Alphamax XT and seeing great benefits while cutting. I am maintaining strength and my performance in the gym has been noticeably better. Alphamax XT helps me a lot with helping to reduce stress, which translates to better well being and much better sleep. Don't let the "test booster" title fool you, there is much more to Alphamax XT than just natural test boosting properties.

As far as stacking, I always recommend to run products solo to see how they work. Its hard to gauge effectiveness if you're stacking a lot of products together. Are you currently using creatine or any staple supplements?

 

[mtmrfz]

Yep,creatine mono it is

 

[john.patterson]

Yep,creatine mono it is

Always a good choice! You could always stack Alphamax XT with other products, but I think that running it with a solid diet, consistent training, and keeping your creatine mono in you'll really enjoy it by itself. As mentioned above, you could also look into CreMax XT as an all-in-one staple supplement. CreMax XT contains a full daily dose of creatine, along with betaine, glycerol, amentoflavone, and an electrolyte blend to boost performance and pumps in the gym while helping to speed recovery. Its a great product to use as a staple supplement to lay a solid foundation and set yourself up for some solid strength and size gains

 

[mtmrfz]

Thank you for your input. Are there any side effects to Alphamax? Should it be cycled alongside creamax and or can be taken throughout the year every day? What dosing would you recommend as well as times when to consume it?

 

[dvw]

You should gain a solid 12-15 lbs of muscle before cutting. That can be done in 10 weeks with good diet and training. Use a non stim pre workout like I-force hamavol or PES high volume if you don't want caffeine. If you cant find those in EU, just find l-citrulline powder in bulk and creatine mono in bulk and take pre.

 

[cubsfan815]

Thank you for your input. Are there any side effects to Alphamax? Should it be cycled alongside creamax and or can be taken throughout the year every day? What dosing would you recommend as well as times when to consume it?

Alphamax XT should be ran 8 weeks then 4 week break. There should be no side effects, besides possibly getting used to the Forskolin which if you are starting Shift first you will already be doing.

2 caps AM then 2 Caps pre bed. I would try to dose away from shift if possible, just because each has F95 and you may get stomach discomfort until you are used to it.

Alphamax XT/Shift/Alphamine/Cremax XT would be one hell of a fine stack sir!

 

[john.patterson]

Thank you for your input. Are there any side effects to Alphamax? Should it be cycled alongside creamax and or can be taken throughout the year every day? What dosing would you recommend as well as times when to consume it?

There really aren't any side effects from Alphamax XT. Some notice increased hunger, but other than that there isn't much of a concern with side effects. Alphamax XT should be run for no longer than 8 weeks continuously with a 4-8 week break between cycles. CreMax XT does not need to be cycle though, you can use it every day year round.

For dosing, I prefer to take 2 caps of Alphamax XT with my postworkout meal (I workout first thing in the morning), and another 2 caps with dinner or with my meal before bed. The nighttime dose really helps with my sleep quality, and I always wake up feeling well rested.

For CreMax XT, dosing timing isn't too important. Most users including myself prefer to take it 20-30 minutes preworkout. The glycerol in CreMax provides a nice pump and I notice increased performance in the gym when taking it as a preworkout.

 

[john.patterson]

You should gain a solid 12-15 lbs of muscle before cutting. That can be done in 10 weeks with good diet and training. Use a non stim pre workout like I-force hamavol or PES high volume if you don't want caffeine. If you cant find those in EU, just find l-citrulline powder in bulk and creatine mono in bulk and take pre.

I think you're giving the OP some false hope here. Gaining 12-15 pounds of lean mass in 10 weeks cannot be done naturally. It would even be a stretch to say it could be done using anabolics. I politely disagree with you on this statement, but your supplement suggestions are fair.

 

[mtmrfz]

I thank you all bros for your intel,time and advice given. I definitely changed the way I look at some certain supps and believe I came up with what would be best suited for my goal without knocking out my wallet unconscious. I think of going for two packs of Alphamax to get 8 weeks cycle plus a pack of alphamine to go as a leaning out pre to get me in the zone for the first month, after Alphamine goes out I'll be more than motivated to hit the gym with no pre at all. Your thoughts?

 

[john.patterson]

I thank you all bros for your intel,time and advice given. I definitely changed the way I look at some certain supps and believe I came up with what would be best suited for my goal without knocking out my wallet unconscious. I think of going for two packs of Alphamax to get 8 weeks cycle plus a pack of alphamine to go as a leaning out pre to get me in the zone for the first month, after Alphamine goes out I'll be more than motivated to hit the gym with no pre at all. Your thoughts?

You're more than welcome dude! Glad we could help you out. I think your plan sounds great. An 8 week run of Alphamax XT is a great option, and stacking with Alphamine as a preworkout would be killer. I like your thinking

 

[mtmrfz]

Another thing that kind of bothers me, is Alphamax capable of causing some minor/major breakouts on the face,chest of back? I believe it is a common possibility when you deal with something that increases your test

 

[raul87]

I currently on the OG Alphamax and haven't experienced any acne I don't think it raises your test thathe much. Acne problems usually come with some much stronger compounds

 

[Jiigzz]

If you dont have much muscle tissue but have been training a fair while, id suggest going back to the drawing board training wise and sticking to the basic supps.

Its not uncommon for people to think they "work hard" in the gym, yet see slow or no progress because their plans are not progressive. You might find that saving your money and getting a better plan will be tons better for your progress.

A training plan is like 40% of your results (I made that stat up) and a supplement is like 1-5% at best. Which would you rather invest in first?

 

[Driven2lift]

^ this guy knows.

if you can't make progress without supps,
Adding them won't change that.

Build from the ground up

 

[mtmrfz]

I have not yet began the training,since I'm kind of a prepper and trying to get everything right before I do go deep, so I'm getting as much info as I can get and advice on supplementatiom before I spend a dime. But I totally agree with your statement. I have no doubt in the training program since it did wonders for me before I had to quit

 

[Driven2lift]

Good to hear brother, are you logging this by chance?

 

[mtmrfz]

It really depends, I would love to do so and track my progression as well as share with you guys, but it really comes to the new working schedule on the new place,which will be decided in the next couple of weeks

 

[AntM1564]

If you dont have much muscle tissue but have been training a fair while, id suggest going back to the drawing board training wise and sticking to the basic supps.

Its not uncommon for people to think they "work hard" in the gym, yet see slow or no progress because their plans are not progressive. You might find that saving your money and getting a better plan will be tons better for your progress.

A training plan is like 40% of your results (I made that stat up) and a supplement is like 1-5% at best. Which would you rather invest in first?

Try 33%, that is my number at least I like to split it in thirds between training, nutrition and sleep/rest.

 

[dvw]

A guy with A LBM of 150 lbs and newbie gains can equate to a 5 lb gain in muscle per month 2 or 3 months easy! I have seen it countless times with out Androgens.

 

[dvw]

Then you throw in betaine, creatine, whey protein and calorie surplus. Those type gains can be had in first 3 months.

 

[Austinmck17]

I recently just got back into lifting myself. I took a ten month break and dropped down to 171 from 189. All my muscle bellies looked extremely flat from the break and I had no chest whatsoever which used to be my strong point. after lifting for 3 months in a slight caloric surplus I am now at 187 and judging by the mirror I am down at least 3% body fat. The supps I only used were a pre workout, a pump product, some
Protein powder on deficit days (rest) and betaine with creatine. The muscle memory aspect of your body is insane. you will easily be able to make insane progress just by being consistent.

The program I initially started with was strength theory. I did that for 6 weeks just to increase my base lifts. My bench went from 175 x1 to 225 x2, squat went 175 x 3 to 225 x 3, and Deadlift went from 175 x 5 to 245 x 5. All these were achievable very easily. I could have made much greater strength gains by putting more than 4 days in a week those first 6 weeks, but I spent a great deal of time doing activities outside like hiking, running, and biking.

I then switched to a full body routine and my results exploded. Been doing that for 7 weeks now and love it. Each day I hit all the major lifts, but rotate them doing strength, volume, deload each workout. This is a great routine for newbie gains. Test it out I'm sure you will greatly enjoy the results! Hella people ask me if I'm on cycle which makes me feel very proud. Good luck man!

Workout day calories were between 3300-4000 depending on cardio / intensity and duration. Rest day was around 2400-2700.

 

[mtmrfz]

Thank you very much for the info! My chest is completely weak sauce,it is the hardest place to gain muscle at along side my lats,everything else grows like crazy,but these two, we got that love-hate relationship,love doing chest and lats, would be over the moon to see those muscles develop as fast as the others,but hate to see it be so flat. I will most definitely look into those programs, thank you!

 

[Austinmck17]

Thank you very much for the info! My chest is completely weak sauce,it is the hardest place to gain muscle at along side my lats,everything else grows like crazy,but these two, we got that love-hate relationship,love doing chest and lats, would be over the moon to see those muscles develop as fast as the others,but hate to see it be so flat. I will most definitely look into those programs, thank you!

What's a typical workout look like for you? I do primarily compound lifts with some accessory work focused on my weak spots ( lats, calves, adductor/abductors) lol. Honestly I've cycle before and made as much progress naturally than I've on anabolics( all maintainable)z This is primarily due to intensity level, training program, and diet all being in the right place.

My lats were invisible until I began doing volume on dead lifts along with a serious amount of pullovers.

Forgot to mention I've been taking ephedrine and caffeine nearly daily and training fasted most days, recently
Started ignite by Olympus labs and the recomp effect really kicked up

 

[raul87]

Thank you very much for the info! My chest is completely weak sauce,it is the hardest place to gain muscle at along side my lats,everything else grows like crazy,but these two, we got that love-hate relationship,love doing chest and lats, would be over the moon to see those muscles develop as fast as the others,but hate to see it be so flat. I will most definitely look into those programs, thank you!

Lift heavy on chest and throw in accessory work it will grow in no time just eat for it

 

[mtmrfz]

Austinmck17 Are you my long lost brother? I start with a solid 20-25 minute stretch, then depending on the muscle group I do compound followed by high volume additional exercises that focuses on my weak sauce parts. After that I go for core exercise and finish it off with a 20-30 min cardio. If I want to cut, I increase the amount of additional exercises and do some cardio in between sets(jumps, something like running on the spot dumbbell thrusts) to shed some fat and sweat