Muscle Preservation Discussion

Hockeyaus33

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It's that time of year again! We all want to get shredded for the upcoming summer but we also want to keep all of that hard earned mass. So lets discuss, argue, refute, and conclude with the latest science on muscle preservation.

In order to maximize muscle preservation while we are in a caloric deficit, we need to answer the following questions:

What does the ideal diet look like for retaining muscle on a cut? Does it involve carb cycling to put our body into ketosis once in a while? Does it involve a type of fast like IF in order to optimize hormone levels? What does the overall diet strategy look like?

What will our training look like? Should we add cardio? What type of cardio, high intensity like sprints or low intensity like walking at an incline and for how long? Will we add in high rep sets to our routine, replace our heavy sets all together, or ommit high rep altogether? Do we keep training each body part one day a week or do we convert to splits?

Lastly, what will our supplementation look like? What fat burner or ingredients help preserve muscle the most? Are BCAAs necessary? Here is a list of possible candidates:

Creatine
HICCA
PA
Whey and casein protein
HMBCA
Ferulic acid
BCAAs


Discuss...
 

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I would think that, whatever training you find most efficient at building lean mass, will also be most efficient at preserving it.

Bout and weekly volume may decrease, Im thinking more in terms of intensity used (#RM).
 

Robert5891

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Use HIIT for cardio I've found beneficial. Lifting stays the same, no need to deviate too much from a solid training program.

Caloric deficit should be roughly 10-20% below maintenance. Keep protein between 1-1.25g/lb to preserve muscle mass during the cut.
 
john.patterson

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Awesome thread topic right here!

For me, I prefer carb cycling while cutting. I don't get into ketosis, but I prefer to vary my carb intake over the course of the week to keep variety and to ensure my metabolism and leptin levels are in check. I start at about 200 cals below maintenance and lower as needed. I also increase protein intake a bit to help preserve muscle.

My training stays the same. I focus more in the hypertrophy rep range (8-12) while still incorporating strength movements with lower reps.

As far as supplementation, I prefer to keep my staple supps in and add a thermogenic as my cut progresses. I use CreMax XT to help with strength and performance in the gym. The creatine, betaine, amentoflavone, and electrolytes help me to preserve strength and get great workouts despite lower carb intake. I will also utilize a GDA on my high carb days to help drive carbs and nutrients to the muscle. At some point during my cut I will add in EC or OxyMax XT to keep my fat loss cruising. OxyMax gives me great energy and really helps boost my mood while in a deficit. I keep my whey and casein protein in to meet protein requirements as well.
 
Quads_of_Stee

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My training stays the same, I just up my hiit by a session each week and drop cals. For HIIT i do prowler pushes that alternate between heavy and medium weight

I've tried out leucine matrix from prosupps for this cut (leucine+hmbca+hica) and am not fully certain that it made a significant impact but it did help a bit for sure. Diet wise I tend to stick to .8g protein/lb or ~150g a day, keeping fats at 65-75g daily year round and then just manipulating carbs

A staple for me when dieting is F95, usually from oxymax xt. I can always tell a difference when dieting without it, as I am more prone to faster weight loss. Usually an ECY stack is the best thing for me, with my caffeine coming from oxymax xt.
 
The_Old_Guy

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I just finished a successful cut. I did use Clen, 2866, and 677, but I think my strategy would have been successful without them, lesser degree, but still good.

I use the caliper, scale, and tape to adjust the caloric deficit. I initially dropped 600kcals under starting TDEE, looking for the standard 1-2lbs/week loss. The first week or two showed less, so I dropped 100kcals, twice more, ending up at 2200 from around 3000 (I'm such a cliche'). This hit my target, and sometimes a little more. Next time (I probably need just one more cut to get to 10% or under) I'll try starting at -900kcals and see what happens.

Since I was relatively lean, I went with Eric Helms' 2.4g/Kg on Protein. I set my minimum Fat range to 65-75g (0.2-0.3g/Kg) and filled the rest of the cals in with Carbs. I skewed Carb intake to AM/Early PM after reading some stuff on SuppVersity.

Supps I took were *almost everything related to cutting*, and the stuff I always take - from the list above it would be Creatine, PA, Protein, and HMB-CA. The one thing I did learn, at least for me - when trying to maintain LBM: All those "fat burners" probably help a little bit, but you ain't going from 15% to 10% etc... It's deficit + time that is the main fat loss catalyst.

Training did not change. All lifts were as heavy as possible while hitting the prescribed rep range. My Squats and Deadlifts are taken care of by a Matt Kroc program I'm trying out. All the rest undulated in the 6-8, 8-12, 12-15 rep range, mostly in the latter two due to epicondylitus in my left elbow.

Squats and Deads steadily *increased*, which is probably due to the 2866. Deads went up ~25lbs in the 4x3 (16 week program, that was the one that I had an exact before and after cycle number for).

Total scale loss was ~10lbs, abdominal circumference loss was just under 2" (1.85" IIRC)

Edit: Oh yeah, Cardio - Every other day, 40 mins, X-Country Ski Machine at highest elevation, and then propped even higher on a calf raise block. Resistance set as high as possible where I could still make it 40 mins. I'd call it MISS (Medium Intensity Steady State).
 
ELROCK

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I just finished a successful cut. I did use Clen, 2866, and 677, but I think my strategy would have been successful without them, lesser degree, but still good.

I use the caliper, scale, and tape to adjust the caloric deficit. I initially dropped 600kcals under starting TDEE, looking for the standard 1-2lbs/week loss. The first week or two showed less, so I dropped 100kcals, twice more, ending up at 2200 from around 3000 (I'm such a cliche'). This hit my target, and sometimes a little more. Next time (I probably need just one more cut to get to 10% or under) I'll try starting at -900kcals and see what happens.

Since I was relatively lean, I went with Eric Helms' 2.4g/Kg on Protein. I set my minimum Fat range to 65-75g (0.2-0.3g/Kg) and filled the rest of the cals in with Carbs. I skewed Carb intake to AM/Early PM after reading some stuff on SuppVersity.

Supps I took were *almost everything related to cutting*, and the stuff I always take - from the list above it would be Creatine, PA, Protein, and HMB-CA. The one thing I did learn, at least for me - when trying to maintain LBM: All those "fat burners" probably help a little bit, but you ain't going from 15% to 10% etc... It's deficit + time that is the main fat loss catalyst.

Training did not change. All lifts were as heavy as possible while hitting the prescribed rep range. My Squats and Deadlifts are taken care of by a Matt Kroc program I'm trying out. All the rest undulated in the 6-8, 8-12, 12-15 rep range, mostly in the latter two due to epicondylitus in my left elbow.

Squats and Deads steadily *increased*, which is probably due to the 2866. Deads went up ~25lbs in the 4x3 (16 week program, that was the one that I had an exact before and after cycle number for).

Total scale loss was ~10lbs, abdominal circumference loss was just under 2" (1.85" IIRC)
You can definitely notice your progress from your previous profile pic to this one ? good work man?
 

ma70

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1g Protein per LBM (not body weight)
Lifting heavy (80-85% training max at least)
Forskolin (effective, for ME, and in human studies, but your results may vary)

Simple, effective, and of course, everyone's different, so your results may vary. Maybe you can increase the protein, or add in BCAAs or whatever, but I think people overcomplicate things. Effective fat burners? Not many of them to be honest. Use them as energy boosters, not to burn fat. I find myself not recommending novel blends/formulas anymore because looking back at things, they're really not that helpful except psychologically motivating you to stay on your diet cause you used up money on these things.
 
Hockeyaus33

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Great posts so far guys. One aspect of cutting that I have noticed is that in the beginning of a cut I will initially lose a lot of weight on the scale but not look any different in the mirror for the first few weeks or so. Then, randomly my weight loss on the scale will plateau but ill start looking leaner and leaner in the mirror. Kind of a weird phenomenon.

As far as dieting goes, this is the first cut that I have ever utilized intense carb cycling. I have noticed that I actually have more energy and a clearer head throughout the day on low carb days. I am starting to wonder if my body prefers a more ketogenic diet all the time....
 
john.patterson

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Great posts so far guys. One aspect of cutting that I have noticed is that in the beginning of a cut I will initially lose a lot of weight on the scale but not look any different in the mirror for the first few weeks or so. Then, randomly my weight loss on the scale will plateau but ill start looking leaner and leaner in the mirror. Kind of a weird phenomenon.

As far as dieting goes, this is the first cut that I have ever utilized intense carb cycling. I have noticed that I actually have more energy and a clearer head throughout the day on low carb days. I am starting to wonder if my body prefers a more ketogenic diet all the time....
Have you tried doing a full blown keto diet ever? The focus and energy I have is always incredible, its just such a pain to eat that way haha
 
MidwestBeast

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No single "right" diet or training protocol, IMO. But making sure cals aren't too low and you have enough protein is obviously ideal. Save time for rest, get good sleep, and plenty of things can help in the supplement field, as well. Haven't used Triumph, but it would be solid, as is Ergonine, which I have been using daily for a few months, now.

Also take a look at Keto Induce, as it could play a nice role in allowing some fat loss during sleep while you keep everything else unadjusted during your day to day.
 
Young Gotti

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I like to try and lift heavy while on a cut, or as heavy as possible, I've also been enjoying hitting muscle groups twice a week...constantly giving them the stimulus to grow

I prefer hiit training as I don't have six hours to spend in the gym but find it works better and could preserve muscle rather...liss for long durations will cause muscle loss

and supplementation doesn't really change in terms of my main supplements, however I have enjoyed using natty anabolics to really help preserve muscle, natadrol will be the next one I try

diet wise I try and do low carb and high fats...usually during the week, one day on Friday or Saturday i'll have a carb up meal....but I naturally feel better with lower carbs and higher fats
 
double s

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No single "right" diet or training protocol, IMO. But making sure cals aren't too low and you have enough protein is obviously ideal. Save time for rest, get good sleep, and plenty of things can help in the supplement field, as well. Haven't used Triumph, but it would be solid, as is Ergonine, which I have been using daily for a few months, now.

Also take a look at Keto Induce, as it could play a nice role in allowing some fat loss during sleep while you keep everything else unadjusted during your day to day.
Soo true. When leaning out I personally tend to respond better to higher carbs with moderate Pro and low fat. At the end of the day, yes we want to preserve muscle mass but it is inevitable that some will be lost. What is most important is that energy expenditure is higher than food intake. To lose 1 lb a week you have to burn 3500 cals more than you intake.
 

bosskardo

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I'm a fan of EAAs. Great help in training when in caloric deficit.
 
Hockeyaus33

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Have you tried doing a full blown keto diet ever? The focus and energy I have is always incredible, its just such a pain to eat that way haha
I have never done full blown keto due to the fear of looking flat. I will have to admit that even while on this strict carb cycle routine, I do look pretty flat until my carb refeed day. How do you stay looking full while on keto?
 
john.patterson

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I have never done full blown keto due to the fear of looking flat. I will have to admit that even while on this strict carb cycle routine, I do look pretty flat until my carb refeed day. How do you stay looking full while on keto?
How? You don't, hahaha. Well at least I haven't discovered that magic yet lol. I haven't done keto in a while, but in the past I was flat as a pancake. Depending on how deep into a cut I am I feel the same as you describe while carb cycling. How low are you carbs currently?
 
Jiigzz

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Great posts so far guys. One aspect of cutting that I have noticed is that in the beginning of a cut I will initially lose a lot of weight on the scale but not look any different in the mirror for the first few weeks or so. Then, randomly my weight loss on the scale will plateau but ill start looking leaner and leaner in the mirror. Kind of a weird phenomenon.

As far as dieting goes, this is the first cut that I have ever utilized intense carb cycling. I have noticed that I actually have more energy and a clearer head throughout the day on low carb days. I am starting to wonder if my body prefers a more ketogenic diet all the time....
You won't be hitting keto on low/ no carb days unless its for quite an extended period of time, so I wouldnt use a carb cycling approach to determine how you might feel on keto.

Youd likely still have glycogen stores for quite some time
 
snu22

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How? You don't, hahaha. Well at least I haven't discovered that magic yet lol. I haven't done keto in a while, but in the past I was flat as a pancake. Depending on how deep into a cut I am I feel the same as you describe while carb cycling. How low are you carbs currently?
I don't have any experience with keto, but I do know that I'm always much fuller-looking when taking at least 2tbsp of SL a day. Perhaps this effect is significant enough to offset the flatness from keto? Would be interested in knowing how much it helps (might just have to try it myself later this summer).
 
HIT4ME

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I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I am a fatty, and I started off 100 pounds heavier. At 5'8'' and over 290, I had to lose weight and FAST. I got down to about 250 and then I went on a PSMF like Lyle McDonald outlines for 4+ months and dropped down to about 190 on just 600-800 cals/day. I lost some strength....but not a lot to be honest. I think brief, intense workouts that don't burn a lot of calories but still keep strength up and adequate protein is the key. Beyond that, I think people have too much fear about this unless they're talking about getting below 10-12% bodyfat. If you're above this range, your body has fat and will burn it just fine. Once you're around or below 10%, the game obviously changes.
 

georgetown

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I have never done full blown keto due to the fear of looking flat. I will have to admit that even while on this strict carb cycle routine, I do look pretty flat until my carb refeed day. How do you stay looking full while on keto?
I just use the flatness on keto as motivation kinda haha i just think about how much fuller i will look once i add carbs back, plus then i will be leaner so win:win, also it gives me a mental boost when lifting the weight as i am stronger than i "look" (flat muscles)
 
Lynks8

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Great posts so far.

I know it's dumb, but I hate cardio. I never used to do it, but I've learned that my body responds best to adding cardio rather than reducing kcals. I just plain feel better and this might sound a little "bro-science-y", but I swear my increased circulatory health keeps me looking more pumped/vascular throughout the day. Despite the fact that my caloric in/out ratio didn't effectively change, I also noticed my strength didn't dip as much as when I just reduced calories in the past.

On my cut last year, I got down to my leanest ever (~9%bf) by adding cardio 4x/week with only a ~200 calorie/day deficit. I'm about to start my cut for this spring and I'm not going to reduce my calories at all. Instead I'm going to add 25 minutes fasted HIIT every single morning. I'm also going to experiment with clenviscerate. I'm excited to see what happens.
 

georgetown

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Great posts so far.

I know it's dumb, but I hate cardio. I never used to do it, but I've learned that my body responds best to adding cardio rather than reducing kcals. I just plain feel better and this might sound a little "bro-science-y", but I swear my increased circulatory health keeps me looking more pumped/vascular throughout the day. Despite the fact that my caloric in/out ratio didn't effectively change, I also noticed my strength didn't dip as much as when I just reduced calories in the past.

On my cut last year, I got down to my leanest ever (~9%bf) by adding cardio 4x/week with only a ~200 calorie/day deficit. I'm about to start my cut for this spring and I'm not going to reduce my calories at all. Instead I'm going to add 25 minutes fasted HIIT every single morning. I'm also going to experiment with clenviscerate. I'm excited to see what happens.
Sometimes its best doing the things you hate
 
john.patterson

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Great posts so far.

I know it's dumb, but I hate cardio. I never used to do it, but I've learned that my body responds best to adding cardio rather than reducing kcals. I just plain feel better and this might sound a little "bro-science-y", but I swear my increased circulatory health keeps me looking more pumped/vascular throughout the day. Despite the fact that my caloric in/out ratio didn't effectively change, I also noticed my strength didn't dip as much as when I just reduced calories in the past.

On my cut last year, I got down to my leanest ever (~9%bf) by adding cardio 4x/week with only a ~200 calorie/day deficit. I'm about to start my cut for this spring and I'm not going to reduce my calories at all. Instead I'm going to add 25 minutes fasted HIIT every single morning. I'm also going to experiment with clenviscerate. I'm excited to see what happens.
Agree 100%. I'm not a huge fan of cardio either, but I find that I look and feel way better when I keep my calories higher and add in cardio for my cuts. I usually start with LISS 3-4 times per week and add in some HIIT sessions. Clenviscerate is a great addition too, I had great success with it last spring.
 

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Add me to the camp that does better by doing more exercise as opposed to cutting cals.
 
Driven2lift

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Screw cardio lol.

Not until super setting lifts and keeping HR up lifting stops working, which is almost never lol.

HIIT is the only dedicated cardio I may add in.


As for the topic title though...
-High protein
-SLEEP (this can murder on a cut)
-pretty much any effective ergogen/myogen will help
-IMO don't push to failure too often, I stay in 10-12 rep sets but that is personal preference
-BCAAs/Leucine/HICA see the most use here.
-Refeeds as needed to not let performance slip on a cut. This will effect muscle mass over time.
-slight deficit, slow & steady
-B2 agonism is huge here IMO. EC/clen (or a more legal, novel agonist like Higenamine) has great muscle retention effects, bump up cAMP too and you're as well off as supplements can get you.
-Utilize stimulants pre-workout and whenever needed.
 
Driven2lift

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More to the effect of hypertrophy, but keep in mind this is pretty in line with what to do in terms of training for preservation of that mass, too

Fresh meta analysis from Brad Schoenfeld:

"Proofs of our meta-analysis assessing the effects of strength training frequency on muscle growth are in! We report that the current evidence shows training a muscle group at least 2 days a week is needed to maximize hypertrophy, but did not detect a benefit to greater frequencies (3 days a week as opposed to 2). That said, there are some notable caveats to these findings. Will discuss in detail once the study is published and everyone has a chance to look over the entire study (hopefully in the next few weeks!)"

ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1460477690.249263.jpg


Once the full discussion is dropped I will create a separate hypertrophy topic.

Undoubtedly AAS users can ignore this though, wouldn't surprise me to see effectiveness at twice this volume
 
raul87

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Awesome information here keep it coming guys I'm currently trying to keep my strength on a calorie deficit
 
Driven2lift

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Awesome information here keep it coming guys I'm currently trying to keep my strength on a calorie deficit
Strength?

Stimulants is #1 and being on a cut often allows for fun dosing here. CNS strength is very noticeably effected.
Admittedly I abuse stimulants though. I would be a danger to myself if I went to powerlifting

Creatine, TMG, Ferulic Acid, PA

Hydration and acute performance: agmatine, citrulline, nitrates, HydroMAX, electrolytes and fluid intake.
 
Hockeyaus33

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How? You don't, hahaha. Well at least I haven't discovered that magic yet lol. I haven't done keto in a while, but in the past I was flat as a pancake. Depending on how deep into a cut I am I feel the same as you describe while carb cycling. How low are you carbs currently?
Im currently at 120 g of carbs on low carb days and then I try to get at least 400 g of carbs on my refeed days but preferably more like 500 g on my refeed days because I was at 400 g daily when I was maintaining before this cut
 
Hockeyaus33

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Also, during this cut I have fell in love with Xtend. I honestly notice a huge difference mid-end of my workout when I would usually be toast I am actually ready to go much faster in between sets. Great product especially for cuts but im thinking even during a bulk it might be nice
 
Hockeyaus33

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Also, I will be adding rest-pause sets into my normal routine starting tomorrow. That article was convincing
 
Hockeyaus33

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Strength?

Stimulants is #1 and being on a cut often allows for fun dosing here. CNS strength is very noticeably effected.
Admittedly I abuse stimulants though. I would be a danger to myself if I went to powerlifting

Creatine, TMG, Ferulic Acid, PA

Hydration and acute performance: agmatine, citrulline, nitrates, HydroMAX, electrolytes and fluid intake.
What is your favorite stim? Have you tried the new one in conqu3r UL yet?
 
AntM1564

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Also, during this cut I have fell in love with Xtend. I honestly notice a huge difference mid-end of my workout when I would usually be toast I am actually ready to go much faster in between sets. Great product especially for cuts but im thinking even during a bulk it might be nice
Are you using Xtend Perform or the regular version? How many scoops? Intra or pre workout dosing?

Also, I will be adding rest-pause sets into my normal routine starting tomorrow. That article was convincing
Remember to only do it on your final exercise. Give the 50 rep method a shot too, it's brutal.

Link to article? I'd like to read it too
It is on the first page, my post. It is an article on how to burn a substantial amount of calories without cardio.
 
dontsweatme

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Great thread! Lots of good info so far!

Whats the longest period of time you guys will run a cut?
 
Hockeyaus33

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AntM1564 I am just using regular Xtend but I would definitely like to try Perform have you tried it?

Also I didnt realize it was only the last exercise? I thought it was for the last set of every exercise
 
AntM1564

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AntM1564 I am just using regular Xtend but I would definitely like to try Perform have you tried it?

Also I didnt realize it was only the last exercise? I thought it was for the last set of every exercise
I guess it is open for interpretation. The article states the last set for an exercise. It doesn't state all or last. Rest pauses you may be able to get away with on the last set for every exercise. I would not do that though. Lets say you're hitting a push workout; shoulders, chest and triceps. I would pick one of the four methods for the last set for the last exercise for each muscle group. Remember, those techniques are going to have you go to mechanical failure. If you do that the very first exercise, I would imagine the rest of the session would be hindered.
 
KevinConn

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Great posts so far.

I know it's dumb, but I hate cardio. I never used to do it, but I've learned that my body responds best to adding cardio rather than reducing kcals. I just plain feel better and this might sound a little "bro-science-y", but I swear my increased circulatory health keeps me looking more pumped/vascular throughout the day. Despite the fact that my caloric in/out ratio didn't effectively change, I also noticed my strength didn't dip as much as when I just reduced calories in the past.

On my cut last year, I got down to my leanest ever (~9%bf) by adding cardio 4x/week with only a ~200 calorie/day deficit. I'm about to start my cut for this spring and I'm not going to reduce my calories at all. Instead I'm going to add 25 minutes fasted HIIT every single morning. I'm also going to experiment with clenviscerate. I'm excited to see what happens.
You probably already know this but be careful with fasted HIIT. I did this on my very first cut when I wasn't very knowledgeable and I lost A LOT of muscle. I looked terrible by the end and was weak as hell. It's mostly agreed upon these days that fasted HIIT burns muscle.

What I'm doing right now is walk/runs while drinking BCAAs just to make sure I don't lose any muscle. I typically do a light jog until I start to breathe harder then I walk until my heart rate and breathing are back down before doing it again. Started with 25 minutes at the beginning now up to 45 minutes every morning. Oh and I do a caffeine snooze before I get up - I set two alarms, one 15 minutes early so that I wake up and take a caffeine pill from my nightstand and then go back to sleep for 15 minutes, that way it's in the bloodstream when I'm running and it makes it very easy to wake up! So far I'm looking quite a lot leaner than when I started but have only lost 6 pounds - makes me think I haven't lost much muscle which I am happy about.
 
NoAddedHmones

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You probably already know this but be careful with fasted HIIT. I did this on my very first cut when I wasn't very knowledgeable and I lost A LOT of muscle. I looked terrible by the end and was weak as hell. It's mostly agreed upon these days that fasted HIIT burns muscle.

What I'm doing right now is walk/runs while drinking BCAAs just to make sure I don't lose any muscle. I typically do a light jog until I start to breathe harder then I walk until my heart rate and breathing are back down before doing it again. Started with 25 minutes at the beginning now up to 45 minutes every morning. Oh and I do a caffeine snooze before I get up - I set two alarms, one 15 minutes early so that I wake up and take a caffeine pill from my nightstand and then go back to sleep for 15 minutes, that way it's in the bloodstream when I'm running and it makes it very easy to wake up! So far I'm looking quite a lot leaner than when I started but have only lost 6 pounds - makes me think I haven't lost much muscle which I am happy about.
It wasn't the fasted HIT which caused your issues. Most likely your diet and training setup sucked.
 
KevinConn

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As far as my fat loss strategy goes - I like to kick things off by not changing diet at all. I like to find a program that has plenty of heavy lifting but at a fast pace so the heart rate stays way up and I get a good sweat going. My go-to is Built for Bad circuits from T-nation - great program for any goal really. I also like to add in a GDA at the start as well. Just these two changes usually make my weight start dropping a little. Once is stops, I start adding in the morning walk/runs I just mentioned in my post above. At this point I haven't changed my diet but have made some good progress and I'll start to drop calories slowly and adding in cardio as needed (either LISS or HIIT). I find holding off on dropping calories allows for longer term weight loss without any plateaus whereas if I dropped right away I would just be a lot hungrier all the time and would have to go lower and lower. Anyways, that's how I approach fat loss training.
 
KevinConn

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It wasn't the fasted HIT which caused your issues. Most likely your diet and training setup sucked.
Lol well it's true, they were not great. But do you not see an issue with fasted HIIT? I thought it was the general consensus that it burned muscle and that you should stick to low intensities when fasted. Just wondering what you think.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Lol well it's true, they were not great. But do you not see an issue with fasted HIIT? I thought it was the general consensus that it burned muscle and that you should stick to low intensities when fasted. Just wondering what you think.
No I generally do a completely fasted strength workout followed by HIIT sprints straight after a few times a week. HIIT in general will provide a more anabolic response "Post" than any other form of cardio. Plus you should just forget the whole notion of burning muscle while working out. Its BS, muscles are constantly in both a catabolic and anabolic state, just ensure your daily protein is sufficient, your deficit isn't overly high and your workout intensity doesn't drop in favour of "training to burn fat" and you will be golden ;)
 
Lynks8

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You probably already know this but be careful with fasted HIIT. I did this on my very first cut when I wasn't very knowledgeable and I lost A LOT of muscle. I looked terrible by the end and was weak as hell. It's mostly agreed upon these days that fasted HIIT burns muscle.

What I'm doing right now is walk/runs while drinking BCAAs just to make sure I don't lose any muscle. I typically do a light jog until I start to breathe harder then I walk until my heart rate and breathing are back down before doing it again. Started with 25 minutes at the beginning now up to 45 minutes every morning. Oh and I do a caffeine snooze before I get up - I set two alarms, one 15 minutes early so that I wake up and take a caffeine pill from my nightstand and then go back to sleep for 15 minutes, that way it's in the bloodstream when I'm running and it makes it very easy to wake up! So far I'm looking quite a lot leaner than when I started but have only lost 6 pounds - makes me think I haven't lost much muscle which I am happy about.
Interesting. I was under the impression that one of the major benefits of HIIT is the ability to burn a ton of calories in a short period of time so as to avoid catabolism. I didn't notice any observable muscle or strength loss as a result of my HIIT, but allow me to clarify how I did/do it.

First thing in the morning I'll have a scoop of alphamine and 12.5mg of ephedrine HCL. The HICA in alphamine, and to a lesser extent, the E-HCL both have anti-catabolic properties. After ~15 minutes I'll take an efficacious dose of a BCAA/EAA blend and get on my stationary recumbent bike and do ~25 minutes of HIIT as follows: 1 minute all-out, 2 minutes medium intensity, repeat.

I've had great results with this basic protocol.
 
KevinConn

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No I generally do a completely fasted strength workout followed by HIIT sprints straight after a few times a week. HIIT in general will provide a more anabolic response "Post" than any other form of cardio. Plus you should just forget the whole notion of burning muscle while working out. Its BS, muscles are constantly in both a catabolic and anabolic state, just ensure your daily protein is sufficient, your deficit isn't overly high and your workout intensity doesn't drop in favour of "training to burn fat" and you will be golden ;)
Damn, I don't know how you can handle that completely fasted, sounds very tough. And it also does go against the whole fasted training burns muscle idea - guess I'll have to scratch that one! Thanks for sharing, I'll stop worrying so much now :)
 
KevinConn

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Interesting. I was under the impression that one of the major benefits of HIIT is the ability to burn a ton of calories in a short period of time so as to avoid catabolism. I didn't notice any observable muscle or strength loss as a result of my HIIT, but allow me to clarify how I did/do it.

First thing in the morning I'll have a scoop of alphamine and 12.5mg of ephedrine HCL. The HICA in alphamine, and to a lesser extent, the E-HCL both have anti-catabolic properties. After ~15 minutes I'll take an efficacious dose of a BCAA/EAA blend and get on my stationary recumbent bike and do ~25 minutes of HIIT as follows: 1 minute all-out, 2 minutes medium intensity, repeat.

I've had great results with this basic protocol.
That sounds like a amazing setup - I could see that being very effective for fat loss. Maybe I ought to kick up the intensity of my morning "cardio" based on the last two posts!
 

NewAgeMayan

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Im so adapted to fasted training now that I honestly feel like crap if I try and train fed.
 

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