Leptin/hunger - reverse diet stack

[JDybya]

Hay yall! Been liking for a long time, but for whatever reason, have decided to be a little more active here.

So firstly, a huge thank you to the AM community. I've learned so much over the years from this site.

In the past I've used a lot of supps for weight loss, general health, nootropic boost, adaptogenic effects, etc

Now I'm Looking to put together a stack to use when I get into my reverse diet next month. I'm down to about 12% at 175 lbs right now. Carb/calorie cycling at average 1950 cal, 160p, 160c, 75f. Maintain at about 2800. If will reverse when I get to about 10% bf.

I've done this, with some variation, a couple times now: diet to about 10%, reverse diet slowly and lose more..for a couple months....but then leptin takes over...I binge for a week or 8, and get back to 190/200 lbs., get injured bc of inflammation and extra weight...time off training...rinse and repeat. last time I was down to 161 and had to have been single digit bf. Then holidays....nuff said.

Plan: evomuse stack: basic/epitome to destroy hunger issues. Slinmax or slintensity as my big carb meals get up there. Defuse if I am facing holiday or uncontrollable Chinese buffet urges.

Right now I'm using slinmax, once a week for my refeed meal. Daily Norcodrene/shift stack, with ec or yc thrown in here and there. Other supps are: Ksm-66, Alcar, cissus, fish oil, d, b, c... Cycling stims and adaptogenics as recommended.

Also, I know someone will suggest bulking. Not an option. I'm primarily a boulderer (think rock climbing condensed to the most challenging 10-20' at a time-gymnastic, power strength based movement) Need to be as light and strong as possible.

Any thoughts? Additions? Experiences?

TL/DNR: epitome/basic/defuse/slintensity stack for maintaining strength to weight ratio and low bf while reverse dieting?

Thanks!

 

[john.patterson]

Definitely a well thought out plan. You didn't state this in your post, but I would suggest keeping your staple supps (KSM-66, Alcar, Fish Oil, etc.) in while starting your reverse diet. I'm assuming you will increasing carbs during your reverse, so it would also be wise to incorporate SlinMax with more of your carb meals going into the reverse diet. I notice that one cap of Slinmax with moderate-sized carb meals helps me feel less bloated and helps me look more vascular.

I like your approach to reverse diet rather than bulk. I feel that much better body composition can be achieved doing a proper reverse diet, and it can leave you looking leaner and more muscular while increasing calorie intake over an extended period of time. If you're worried about hunger, I would just be sure you set up your reverse diet to include higher volume foods (salads, veggies, etc.) to keep you feeling full and keep your calories in check.

The evomuse basic/epitome stack is a great option. I would also suggest looking into Alphamax XT. Its a very complete product that contains 25mg of forskolin to help keep you lean while helping to increasing lean body mass. Alphamax XT also works to increase natural testosterone levels while limiting estrogen and cortisol production which can be very beneficial while coming out of a cut. Since you'll be shifting out of a calorie deficit, your body will be susceptible to putting on weight. Alphamax XT would be a great product to help keep you lean during this time and help to keep you light and strong

 

[JDybya]

Thanks!

Yes - staple supps are staples. I do cycle ashwagandha (8 on 2 off), but may push it out for this application.

Carbs will increase from current cyclic range 40 low, 150 med, 250 high (high, low, med, med, low, med, med), to a steady increase of +25g/day every week. I've been carb back loading for years, so even on a cut, my moderate carb days have a decent sized carb meal post workout. Started Slinmax (thank you for your awesome log!!!) last week and I think it has helped. Especially on the two med carb days that are easy/recovery workouts that likely don't prime my glucose metabolism as well as the heavier training days (3 days/week). I expect it will only be more and more beneficial as the carbs get into the 200-300-400g range!

I'll check out Alphamax Xt. Have used forskolin many times in the past and am currently really digging pes shift w/my norc. I was going to be taking rhodiola anyway and had never played with olive leaf extract - so shift made sense. I'll do some digging, but what are your thoughts on shift vs Alphamax in this application? Anything else it should be stacked with, given the hormone manipulation?

Thanks again!

 

[cubsfan815]

I just wanted to add to John's post above. Alphamax XT is 25mg of F95 per serving. So that would give you 50mg per daily from it.

 

[john.patterson]

Thanks!

Yes - staple supps are staples. I do cycle ashwagandha (8 on 2 off), but may push it out for this application.

Carbs will increase from current cyclic range 40 low, 150 med, 250 high (high, low, med, med, low, med, med), to a steady increase of +25g/day every week. I've been carb back loading for years, so even on a cut, my moderate carb days have a decent sized carb meal post workout. Started Slinmax (thank you for your awesome log!!!) last week and I think it has helped. Especially on the two med carb days that are easy/recovery workouts that likely don't prime my glucose metabolism as well as the heavier training days (3 days/week). I expect it will only be more and more beneficial as the carbs get into the 200-300-400g range!

I'll check out Alphamax Xt. Have used forskolin many times in the past and am currently really digging pes shift w/my norc. I was going to be taking rhodiola anyway and had never played with olive leaf extract - so shift made sense. I'll do some digging, but what are your thoughts on shift vs Alphamax in this application? Anything else it should be stacked with, given the hormone manipulation?

Thanks again!

You're welcome! Glad you enjoyed my SlinMax log. Your carb cycling setup looks awesome, very similar to my approach with carb cycling. I agree with you that once your carbs start coming up a bit during your reverse, you'll find SlinMax very beneficial on your moderate and high carb days. I would recommend adjusting the dose between 1 and 2 caps depending on the amount of carbs in each meal, and incorporate 2 cap doses as your carbs increase.

I really enjoy Forskolin when reverse dieting or doing a recomp. I've had great success with Shift in the past, but I find that Alphamax XT is a more complete product with regards to helping increase strength and vascularity while controlling estrogen and cortisol. I enjoy Shift for its leaning effect, but I think you get more from AlphaMax XT. Either would be a great choice though. As far as stacking goes, I think SlinMax and AlphaMax XT would be a solid stack for your goals. More supplements in your stack isn't always better, and if you're using a few complete quality products and you're eating right and training hard you'll get great results.

 

[john.patterson]

I just wanted to add to John's post above. Alphamax XT is 25mg of F95 per serving. So that would give you 50mg per daily from it.

I didn't word that well in my post. This is correct though, it would be 50mg per day with Alphamax XT

 

[JDybya]

I figured re the forsk. Thanks!

Edited bc I did more research

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Ephedrine is an appetite suppressant - pick up some Bronkaid/Primatene.

 

[john.patterson]

Ephedrine is an appetite suppressant - pick up some Bronkaid/Primatene.

OP mentioned he is currently using ec during his cut. But it would be a good thing to have in the event hunger becomes a problem on the reverse diet. I typically don't have as much of a problem while reverse dieting because I'm eating more than what I was while cutting

 

[JDybya]

TheOldGuy - I'm running ec, yc, norcodrene, and shift now as part of my cut, but looking more for something as I bring kcals back up. Ec doesn't have a huge effect on my appetite, ill probably use it occasionally after some time off, but I'm hoping the leptin manipulation approach will be more effective in my situation.

Thanks for the suggestion though! Much appreciated.

 

[JDybya]

Dah! Beat me to it!

 

[Jiigzz]

Seems like you have a fair idea of what you want to do, unfortunately hunger is one of those constant battles on a cut.
What helps for me is bulking up meals with vegetables. Slam in a cup of peas or broccoli and it helps tide you over for a decent period of time.

EC stack might also help, or even some Yohimbine 2.5 and caffeine. Usually I find that stims stop those hunger pangs pretty dang fast