500mg DHEA + Test C + Metformin

Ant77

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Recently went in and had full blood work done to start a new scrip of Test. In reviewing results doc put me on a scrip of DHEA (500mg a day), Metformin (500mg a day) and shots of Test C twice a week all in effort to lower BF and regulate blood sugar. Not real familiar with DHEA and how it helps??? I've read a lot of posts, but all at lower dosages. Any thoughts?
 
Chuck Diesel

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DHEA is two steps away from Test. No reason to use it with Test C because your body will greatly reduce the enzymes that convert DHEA to andro and testosterone when you are on Test C anyway. Also that is a very large dose of DHEA (if you wrote that correctly). Most humans only produce 50mg of DHEA a day naturally. So if anyone was to take that much DHEA, they would probably end up with sky high estrogen and cortisol levels.
 

Ant77

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500mg is what was prescribed. I believe the doc is using it to help combat the weight, but not finding any info that DHEA is of any assistance with weight loss. I've had great results with the Test in the past, but still was battling the BF%, just seemed to be stuck despite diet and vigorous gym time. I also worry about the use of Metformin in conjunction with others, it seems to throw blood sugar out of whack if I'm not eating every 2 hours.
 
Chuck Diesel

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500mg is what was prescribed. I believe the doc is using it to help combat the weight, but not finding any info that DHEA is of any assistance with weight loss. I've had great results with the Test in the past, but still was battling the BF%, just seemed to be stuck despite diet and vigorous gym time. I also worry about the use of Metformin in conjunction with others, it seems to throw blood sugar out of whack if I'm not eating every 2 hours.
U need less estrogen for more weight loss....not more DHEA. Some DHEA does convert to 7-Keto Dhea but that much dhea will jack up ur estrogen. Which will jack up ur bodyfat. You need to see an endocrinologist. I dnt know anything about Metformin so cant help there
 

kisaj

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Holy crap, he messed up. There is no way any doctor is going to prescribe that much DHEA. You need to ask him why he added an extra zero.
 
Chuck Diesel

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Holy crap, he messed up. There is no way any doctor is going to prescribe that much DHEA. You need to ask him why he added an extra zero.
Thats what I was thinking but sometimes people ask questions and dont want the answer. They are just asking questions for no reason.
 

Ant77

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I'll double check the scrip when I get home, but I'm 99.9% sure on dosage. I couldn't find any info on dosage that high which lead me at ask the question. In talking with another, he thinks maybe sice free test was so low in blood work and dosage of Test C is fairly conservative that this may be docs way of boosting free test in my system. Just a thought.
 
Chuck Diesel

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I'll double check the scrip when I get home, but I'm 99.9% sure on dosage. I couldn't find any info on dosage that high which lead me at ask the question. In talking with another, he thinks maybe sice free test was so low in blood work and dosage of Test C is fairly conservative that this may be docs way of boosting free test in my system. Just a thought.
Yesh for test C. But no reason to add that amount of dhea or any dhea on test C.
 

Ant77

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I've had great results with Test on it's own the past and can't find where DHEA provides any huge results. I hate the thought that I may have just wasted $140 on it, but don't want to on anything that's not providing benefits!
 
Chuck Diesel

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I've had great results with Test on it's own the past and can't find where DHEA provides any huge results. I hate the thought that I may have just wasted $140 on it, but don't want to on anything that's not providing benefits!
Well save it for when your test results come back high for LH. Low for total test and low for free test. Thats the only time DHEA by itself will benefit you. If ur under 28 it will serve no purpose at all. 28-35 maybe 10mg 5x a week. 36 to 40 20mg. 40-44 30mg. 46+ 50mg.
 

Ant77

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I'm 39 and free test was at 390, doc says he likes it at 1080 or so.
 

TXRoadrunner

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Diesel are you sure the DHEA converts directly to estrogen? I was under the impression that only free Test not being used by the body converts to estrogen. 200mg of Test C is not a high level of test and the combination with the DHEA I don't believe the Free test levels will be an issue unless he is living a very sedentary lifestyle and not lifting. Thoughts?
 
Chuck Diesel

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Diesel are you sure the DHEA converts directly to estrogen? I was under the impression that only free Test not being used by the body converts to estrogen. 200mg of Test C is not a high level of test and the combination with the DHEA I don't believe the Free test levels will be an issue unless he is living a very sedentary lifestyle and not lifting. Thoughts?
I didnt say it converts directly to estrogen. Test converts to estrogen. The dose depends on the person. No two ppl can look at 200mg of Test C the same. What I was saying is soon as you add synthetic test to your system you test to epitest ratio will be jacked up. Once that happens the natural negative feedback loop is enhanced do the DHEA will stay Dhea or be metabolized to estrogen (by way of andro and testosterone steps) dhea is legal for that reason. You cant technically just take more and more and boost test unless you are over a certain age. If that was the case they would find a reason to ban it.
 
rtmilburn

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DHEA is two steps away from Test. No reason to use it with Test C because your body will greatly reduce the enzymes that convert DHEA to andro and testosterone when you are on Test C anyway. Also that is a very large dose of DHEA (if you wrote that correctly). Most humans only produce 50mg of DHEA a day naturally. So if anyone was to take that much DHEA, they would probably end up with sky high estrogen and cortisol levels.
This is just wrong! Dhea is 2 step to test but its benefits aren't from its conversion. As DHEA is an already active neurosteriod that is vital for many biological functions. Period.
 
Chuck Diesel

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This is just wrong! Dhea is 2 step to test but its benefits aren't from its conversion. As DHEA is an already active neurosteriod that is vital for many biological functions. Period.
Yeah ok. It does have a neurosteroid effect. Not sure what that has to do with taking 500mg w Test C as it relates to test levels. I wasn't talking about the many biological functions of dhea. I didnt say no one on earth needs dhea. Im saying using it with test C for increased test levels wont really boost test much higher. The better thing to do while on Test C is take pregnenolone for neurosteroid benefits.
 
Chuck Diesel

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Also its important to add im not a doctor or the patient in this case. So i dont really care enough to end up arguing over someone else's dhea and Test C intake. If anything all that dhea or even 100mg at once would give most ppl some type of stimulant like anxiety.
 
rtmilburn

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Yeah ok. It does have a neurosteroid. Not sure what that has to do with taking 500mg w Test C as it relates to test levels. I wasn't talking about the many biological functions of dhea. I didnt say no one on earth needs any dhea. Im saying using it with test C for increased test levels wont really boost test much higher. The better thing to do while on Test C is take pregnenolone for neurosteroid benefits.
He never mentioned using it for raising testosterone. He is using it as apart of a complete trt. while on trt you don't have any dhea being produced(or pregnenolone) and they have vital functions. Everyone on trt should be taking both dhea and pregnenolone or hcg to get those hormone levels up. Lack of supplemention with those whole on trt is apart of the reason the initial "i feel great" sense while trt fades away, after a few months. As the hormones become non-existent and the are needed for necessary biological functions.
 
rtmilburn

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Yeah ok. It does have a neurosteroid effect. Not sure what that has to do with taking 500mg w Test C as it relates to test levels. I wasn't talking about the many biological functions of dhea. I didnt say no one on earth needs dhea. Im saying using it with test C for increased test levels wont really boost test much higher. The better thing to do while on Test C is take pregnenolone for neurosteroid benefits.
Lets not forget the dhea (and pregnenolone) converts to numerous things other than just testosterone
 
Chuck Diesel

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Lets not forget the dhea (and pregnenolone) converts to numerous things other than just testosterone
Yes. I didnt say it didnt. My point is you dont need 500mg of dhea period. Also Dhea will convert to estrogen very easily so you haveto watch its intake. Makes no since if at your peak you only make 50mg to 75mg natually anyway.

Its time for back and bis. Not someone elses Test + Dhea dose.
 
Chuck Diesel

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Recently went in and had full blood work done to start a new scrip of Test. In reviewing results doc put me on a scrip of DHEA (500mg a day), Metformin (500mg a day) and shots of Test C twice a week all in effort to lower BF and regulate blood sugar. Not real familiar with DHEA and how it helps??? I've read a lot of posts, but all at lower dosages. Any thoughts?
Blood work.....test C. Dhea...not sure how it helps. 500mg of dhea doesnt help as it applies to test levels.
 

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Are you pre-diabetic for the metformin, curious.
 
Chuck Diesel

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Taking test or high free test = lower LH. Not necessarily lower DHEA. The body isnt stupid. It wont just not make DHEA. What it will do is reduce LH to reduce natural test production.

The "off switch" for test production is free test. It turns of by reducing LHRH which increases LH. Dhea is just the raw material. So for instance. High LH and low dhea usually will always produce way higher free test than high dhea and low LH.
 

Ant77

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Yes, hemoglobin was at 6.1 despite losing weight and excersice. Working hard to get BF down and get in overall better shape.
 
rtmilburn

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Taking test or high free test = lower LH. Not necessarily lower DHEA. The body isnt stupid. It wont just not make DHEA. What it will do is reduce LH to reduce natural test production.

The "off switch" for test production is free test. It turns of by reducing LHRH which increases LH. Dhea is just the raw material. So for instance. High LH and low dhea usually will always produce way higher free test than high dhea and low LH.
No it doesn't shut it off. Althoug it does lower its levels. As the raw materials that is produced by the adrenal glans isnt being converted to test and in return the adrenals slow production to a non- proportionate level(ie lower than it should). Numerous of blood work and a few studies to prove that
 
rtmilburn

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I will agree that dose is ridiculous though but 50-75mgs of oral dhea is to low as well due to horrible bio-availability.
 
Chuck Diesel

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I'm sorry that's my bad and misinterpretation I thought you were telling him to discontinue DHEA completely
Nah. I was more questioning the 500mg dose.

Did he say take 500mg at once. Or 100mg 5x a day???
 

kisaj

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I'm 39 and free test was at 390, doc says he likes it at 1080 or so.
Yeah, yet another reason your doc really has no idea what they are doing. Doctors that understand hormone therapy do not give a specific number they want you at and they certainly would not give you a number like that. BTW, that is a total test number, not free.

What other tests has this doctor done?
 
rtmilburn

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Sorry, but that is just incorrect.
Please elaborate.

I could be wrong, as im not following the lasted research on dhea, but I've seen studies stating an oral bio-availability of dhea from 15% up to 65%. Also i thought it was pretty well understood that both studies showing the upper and lower bio-availability had flaws in them, and that the true bio-availability would be towards the middle of such range.

I would love to more informed though if I'm incorrect and I'm always willing/wanting to read studies on hormones and the endocrine system.
 

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